Author Topic: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?  (Read 1343 times)

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Offline Reformer

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Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 12:55:19 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
__________________
 
Is Every Word In The Bible
Divinely Inspired?

     A few years ago, shortly after I moved to Phoenix, I attended an adult Bible Class of a church where the Bible’s inspiration was being discussed. The leader was teaching that every word in the scriptures, both Old and New, is the Word of God and inspired by God. I asked him, “Do you believe Paul was divinely infused when he wrote to Timothy, ‘When you come, bring the cloak I left with Carpus at Troas, also the books, and above all the parchments’ ” [2 Tim. 4:13].

    He answered, “Every word in the Bible is the word of God.” I didn’t press the matter further. I wondered, however, if his answer entailed even mistranslated words. That God divinely infused the writers at different times as they wrote and spoke, no believer will deny. Paul noted more than once that what he was teaching/writing was revealed to him by the Lord. It is, however, questionable to contend that the Lord is the source of every word inscribed by the writers.

    Each writer had his own style. And most all, if not all, of the writers wrote about personal matters, such as Paul who asked for his cloak, certain books, and his parchments. The Holy Spirit allowed the writers to be themselves, not programmed robots. When crucial topics were addressed, as well as many non-crucial matters, the Holy Spirit “quickened” or “illuminated” the writer or speaker.

    This brother, and hundreds like him, have a lot of explaining to do when we consider the numerous errors found in the letters we call The New Testament. For if God is the author of every word in our current versions of biblical documents, we have an erring God. God is not the author of mistakes, of course, but if every word is from God, as legalists claim, God made a number of mistakes. 

    As I view the matter, the exact words of those biblical letters were not necessarily dictated by God, but are the product of holy men who received the messages. In other words, and read me carefully just here, God inspired the messages but left it up to holy messengers to deliver them in their own individual style or vocabulary. Most of the errors alluded to came about largely by translating from one language to another. The doctrinal integrity of the letters is, for the most part, retained. 

    Another matter to consider is that the revelations by God to holy men were not immediately written down word-for-word. These holy men were earthen vessels into which the revelations were given, later to be decanted in the expressions, writing styles, and words chosen by the ones who wrote them.

    The new covenant scriptures were written from memory by those who were participants of the events of which they wrote, or who simply wrote about the events as they were reported to them by others, such as Luke. Consequently, we are then able to see the likelihood of errors being made—unless we view God as having dictated every word exactly and precisely. In the latter case, we would be forced to concede that God is not errorless, a position not many of us are willing to adopt—at least not me.

    The bottom line is that in spite of the errors made by fallible men, the scheme of redemption through Messiah Jesus has not been altered.  Because of God’s providence, we have in writing the greatest story ever told!
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 13:00:42 by Reformer »

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 14:22:26 »
    The bottom line is that in spite of the errors made by fallible men, the scheme of redemption through Messiah Jesus has not been altered.
And who decides what and where the errors are that are made by fallible men? You?  Sorry, Buff, but once you go down that road, there really is no stopping place; the entire scheme of redemption you say is there becomes entirely subjective.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 15:52:01 »
And who decides what and where the errors are that are made by fallible men? You?  Sorry, Buff, but once you go down that road, there really is no stopping place; the entire scheme of redemption you say is there becomes entirely subjective.

4WD,

Why?

My only objection to what has been written is using the term "the entire scheme" and that, admittedly is on me as I have always regarded scheme to mean make plans, especially in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong:
"he schemed to bring about the collapse of the government"

But if in the end our goal is ( as mine is) Faith coming by hearing and hearing by the word of God leading to redemption  it is unrealistic to expect several men to write exactly the same as each other from the standpoint that you cannot get a dozen contemporary men right here to debate the same a each other. Nor agree how an individual redemption comes about.

But the fact that you all have these disagreements does not take one thing away from Jesus. And His shed blood for me. At least for me it doesn't.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 15:58:58 »
So then Rella, I guess you are the one to decide what in the Bible is God's word and what is just one author's opinion.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 15:58:58 »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 16:43:41 »
If you compare the earliest of Greek copies of the NT to now, they are functionally the same.

Yes, there might be a few translation errors to our native language but we can verify against ancient manuscripts.

So, every jot and tittle are the very words of God.  Context and reading comprehension are a must, or you end up with arguments like the OP.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 16:43:41 »

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 16:47:03 »
So then Rella, I guess you are the one to decide what in the Bible is God's word and what is just one author's opinion.

Again I never said that.

But I am wise enough to know that  Gen 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” was place there by error as Adam never had a mother....

And that Easter does not belong in King Jimmy's translation.

If you disagree then just chalk it up to an uneducated opinion ::tippinghat::

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 16:57:07 »
Again I never said that.

But I am wise enough to know that  Gen 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” was place there by error as Adam never had a mother....

And that Easter does not belong in King Jimmy's translation.

If you disagree then just chalk it up to an uneducated opinion ::tippinghat::

Referring to an English translation error as a biblical error is an error in itself. 

Genesis 2:24 is not an error just because Adam didn't have a mother.  It applied going forward.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 17:13:24 »
Right on, TC.  We are not talking about the KJV or any other translation.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 18:43:48 »
Quote
Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
Nope.  Just the prophets.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 18:43:48 »

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 18:45:05 »
Referring to an English translation error as a biblical error is an error in itself. 

Genesis 2:24 is not an error just because Adam didn't have a mother.  It applied going forward.

 ::bounce:: Self interpretation at its finest.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 18:57:09 »
::bounce:: Self interpretation at its finest.

Yes, that's true you did.   ::tippinghat::

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 19:00:01 »
It was written my Moses looking WAY BACK from the perspective of one who had to leave his mother and cleave to a wife.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 19:01:24 »
4WD:

    "And who decides what and where the errors are that are made by fallible men? You?  Sorry, Buff, but once you go down that road, there really is no stopping place; the entire scheme of redemption you say is there becomes entirely subjective."

    Is "Easter" in the JKV a mistake "made by fallible men"? If your answer is Yes, "There really is no stopping place" for you!

Just a thought,

Buff
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 19:19:29 by Reformer »

Offline Reformer

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 19:11:48 »
Rella:

    On your Reply #2: I used "scheme" to mean plan or design, two definitions of the term. Redemption is a plan or design, created by God and His Son. Otherwise, your comments are meaningful.

Buff

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 19:51:50 »
4WD:

    "And who decides what and where the errors are that are made by fallible men? You?  Sorry, Buff, but once you go down that road, there really is no stopping place; the entire scheme of redemption you say is there becomes entirely subjective."

    Is "Easter" in the JKV a mistake "made by fallible men"? If your answer is Yes, "There really is no stopping place" for you!

Just a thought,

Buff

Language to language translators are not infallible.  However, the original witnesses were written by men through The Holy Spirit.

Easter in the KJV has nothing to do with the texts written by the NT authors.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 23:11:45 »
Texas Ranger:

"Easter in the KJV has nothing to do with the texts written by the NT authors."

    Correct! Yet the counterfeit term is found in some of our oldest Versions, notable the KJV. The Versions prior to the KJV, at least the ones I have examined, do not carry "Easter," but instead "Passover," the authentic term.

Buff [Arizona Ranger]

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jun 20, 2022 - 23:26:17 »
Jaime:

    "It [Gen. 2:24] was written by Moses looking WAY BACK from the perspective of one who had to leave his mother and cleave to a wife."

    Right on target, brother. [Hey, I've gotta stop using "target" as often as I do and substitute Wal-Mart, because a Wal-Mart Store is only 1/4 mile East of me!]

Buff

Offline DaveW

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 06:05:19 »
I am in agreement with the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy (moody bible college 1978) :

Article X
We affirm that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture,   ....


IOW, the inerrancy exists ONLY in the original writings.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 06:59:44 »
Yes DaveW, the issue of inerrancy is not appropriate in the context of any translation.  Thus, the correctness of the word "Easter" in the KJV is not a question of inerrancy of the Bible, but rather a question of translation.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 08:03:06 »
Right on, TC.  We are not talking about the KJV or any other translation.

I am.

Why? Simply because it is the varied translations that morph many a statement into what may or may not have been intended for understanding.

I personally have extremely little knowledge of Koine Greek or Hebrew.

If you 4WD and TC do then more power to you.... but I would be willing to bet not many do. Not even here.

Because it is from your native languages you would have learned about those languages BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW those who translated them first were correct?

How can you be certain that if others gave the same old pat on the back of approval to the original translators actually knew what they were talking about?.... IT IS JUST AS LIKELY they simply agreed.

THERE WAS NO Cambridge Dictionary back in the day... nor a Webster's.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #20 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 08:45:52 »
I am.

Why? Simply because it is the varied translations that morph many a statement into what may or may not have been intended for understanding.
Then the question that you are addressing is whether the translation(s) that you are using are accurate translations.  That is a separate question from whether or not "Every Word In The Bible [is] Divinely Inspired".  Please to no ignore the very important difference between those two questions.

Quote
Because it is from your native languages you would have learned about those languages BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW those who translated them first were correct?
That is yet a third separate question. That is a field of study all on it's own.  Like everything else in this world that lie out of your own field of expertise, you must decide who you trust to give you the best answers to those questions.  That is not always easy to do.  But it is probably easier to do today than it ever has been.  We have so many translations available that anyone really interested in the gospel message will be able to understand it well enough to receive the salvation it promises.

The question of divine inspiration of the authors of the Bible is answered by the Bible itself apart from any particular translation.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #21 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 08:59:25 »
It was written my Moses looking WAY BACK from the perspective of one who had to leave his mother and cleave to a wife.

There is a great question if Moses wrote Gen 2 or not.. but while that is a truthful statement, truly stated... it is not in the proper location.

It is said of the 2nd version of creation (Gen 2) The second version, in Genesis 2, is called J because of its use of the word "Jahve", and is assumed to be written in the 10th century BC.



Gen:

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

 A VERSE REPEATED 3 TIMES IN THE BOOK(S) WE READ TODAY...

Mathew written sometime between 64AD or after 70CE.

Ephesians written sometime around 62AD or even as late as 80 to 100 AD

No matter.... but what does is the use of a verse to emphasize 3 different ideas.

Mathew 19:3-5

3The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

(Mathew was answering the Pharisees about divorce. He was not commenting on Moses leaving the folks and clinging to a wife.)

Ephesians brings us another concept altogether. Eph 5

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

THE VERY SAME IDEA, though worded slightly differently, presented .

So, not knowing who definitely wrote Genesis 2... Moses or another.... this verse is in an odd location and does not tie in like the other two who used it in explanation.[/size]
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:09:13 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh »

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #22 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:07:00 »
Language to language translators are not infallible.  However, the original witnesses were written by men through The Holy Spirit.

Easter in the KJV has nothing to do with the texts written by the NT authors.

But who is keeping those translators on the straight and narrow? What the original intent was is not argued. Certainly it was the Holy Spirit who guidedeach and every one of them.... But as I said....

I personally do not know enough Koine Greek, Hebrew, or even Aramaic to read the holy words in those languages.

And there are enough scrambling of thoughts to make one wonder who is correct.

Yes... Easter was not written by the NT authors.... but Jimmy's men used that ( as was in one other very old bible I saw) and so today you can have arguments upon arguments of why it is right or wrong.

Even from some here who would not read another translation even if they were stuck on a desert island with nothing else to read.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #23 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:10:52 »
Yes DaveW, the issue of inerrancy is not appropriate in the context of any translation.  Thus, the correctness of the word "Easter" in the KJV is not a question of inerrancy of the Bible, but rather a question of translation.
+1

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #24 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:11:33 »
I am in agreement with the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy (moody bible college 1978) :

Article X
We affirm that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture,   ....


IOW, the inerrancy exists ONLY in the original writings.

 ::cryingtears::

Then how are we to know what is right and what is wrong? Maybe the RCC has it right all along by not encouraging folks to read and study for themselves?

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #25 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:14:43 »
I personally do not know enough Koine Greek, Hebrew, or even Aramaic to read the holy words in those languages.
Well, apparently I am about to start a 9 month or more study in Biblical Hebrew so as to learn to read in the original, from the on line branch of Hebrew University in Jerusalem.  (via Zoom)

Quote
Yes... Easter was not written by the NT authors.... but Jimmy's men used that ( as was in one other very old bible I saw) and so today you can have arguments upon arguments of why it is right or wrong.
Even from some here who would not read another translation even if they were stuck on a desert island with nothing else to read.
That is a personal bias that has nothing to do with the actual Word of God. 

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #26 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:27:32 »
Then the question that you are addressing is whether the translation(s) that you are using are accurate translations.  That is a separate question from whether or not "Every Word In The Bible [is] Divinely Inspired".  Please to no ignore the very important difference between those two questions.
That is yet a third separate question. That is a field of study all on it's own.  Like everything else in this world that lie out of your own field of expertise, you must decide who you trust to give you the best answers to those questions.  That is not always easy to do.  But it is probably easier to do today than it ever has been.  We have so many translations available that anyone really interested in the gospel message will be able to understand it well enough to receive the salvation it promises.

The question of divine inspiration of the authors of the Bible is answered by the Bible itself apart from any particular translation.

I am not ignoring anything.

I am simply stating that you are correct when you say "We have so many translations available that anyone really interested in the gospel message will be able to understand it well enough to receive the salvation it promises."

But wonder if "well enough" is good enough for God?

I also will say that the more one studies, then questions do arise as to the salvation it promises... or I should say how one obtains.

Now... don't get me wrong here..

I know I am 1000% wrong in everything I post. You all have told me that often enough. But I keep trudging on to clear my head and someday I will come down on the side of you 4WD, RB, or TC or Dave W with certainty.... I only hope it happens before it is too late and I am gone from life.

Until then... I apologize for injecting my thoughts as they come to me and those that I have read elsewhere... feel free to just ignore me  ::tippinghat::

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #27 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:32:53 »
Well, apparently I am about to start a 9 month or more study in Biblical Hebrew so as to learn to read in the original, from the on line branch of Hebrew University in Jerusalem.  (via Zoom)

Quote
Yes... Easter was not written by the NT authors.... but Jimmy's men used that ( as was in one other very old bible I saw) and so today you can have arguments upon arguments of why it is right or wrong.
Even from some here who would not read another translation even if they were stuck on a desert island with nothing else to read.
That is a personal bias that has nothing to do with the actual Word of God.

Wait. What?

You are saying that they were correct and I am wrong?

Well, here is another one that you can chalk up to personal bias if you want.

Mary did NOT remain a virgin......... Guess where I got that one from?

Offline DaveW

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #28 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:33:27 »
We have so many translations available that anyone really interested in the gospel message will be able to understand it well enough to receive the salvation it promises.
The vast majority of scripture has little to do with how to receive salvation.  Rather it is how to live AFTER one is saved.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #29 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 09:38:44 »
You are saying that they were correct and I am wrong?
It is personal bias to prefer one translation over another. 

HOWEVER, it is idolatry to elevate any translation to the status of Original Text.  Unfortunately many have done that with the KJV.
Quote
Mary did NOT remain a virgin......... Guess where I got that one from?
Not directly from the NT text. (which is why the Catholic and Orthodox insist she was always a virgin)  But it can be derived from OT scripture in which normal sexual intercourse was COMMANDED by God, and to do otherwise was considered sinful.  And they (RCC and EOC) insist Mary was not sinful.   Ya can't have it both ways.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 10:01:16 »
The vast majority of scripture has little to do with how to receive salvation.  Rather it is how to live AFTER one is saved.
Yeah, sort of,  but what has that to do with what I said?

Offline DaveW

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #31 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 10:15:25 »
Yeah, sort of,  but what has that to do with what I said?
More than just "sort of." 

With bad or incomplete translations one can get a very wrong idea of how we are supposed to live as believers.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #32 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 10:38:07 »
More than just "sort of." 

With bad or incomplete translations one can get a very wrong idea of how we are supposed to live as believers.

Much of the OT has very little to do with how we are supposed to live as believers, but it shows the character of God, and is good for instruction.

God's Word is one story, but not all of it is directly applicable to us.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 11:50:52 »
It also describes how God would have all live, whether believers or not. He knows that we won't and has provided a way for the believers to avoid the punishment for not living like He would have us to.

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Re: Is Every Word In The Bible Divinely Inspired?
« Reply #34 on: Tue Jun 21, 2022 - 12:41:24 »
Texas Ranger:

   Your Reply #32, plus a few replies of others, are mostly or altogether accurate, notably since they harmonize with my thoughts! This dialogue is interesting.

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