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Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #420 on: Tue Jun 11, 2019 - 23:33:17 »
That’s why we judge each other. When there temptations are not ours

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #420 on: Tue Jun 11, 2019 - 23:33:17 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #421 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 00:08:01 »
Does temptations come externally or from within us internally ? When we are tempted , is it with what we already own or are, NO. It is something that we haven’t got or something we want to be?


My understanding is that we are lead away with the lusts of our heart. temptations come EXTERNALLY  to pull on what is already inside of us. A desire . Normally we see, hear, imagine and we want or desire.

I could never be tempted to be gay. It makes me recoil to think of it. Its not in me. No matter how much a external force could come ....I couldn’t do it. There is NOTHING INSiDE OF ME. Nothing. No desire at all. For my brethren who struggle with this . Keep looking towards him the author and finisher of your faith. Bless you.

So to fast track this . Jesus Christ was tempted with everything like us from external forces. In all things he was tempted. But there was nothing in him to want it. What’ was in him was to do the will of the Father.

He was tempted like us in all things and  we know by the word of God he had nothing in him. He kept his door shut of the temple that was given to him.
 A lamb without spot or blemish

I must say, very good point Bemark.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #421 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 00:08:01 »

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #422 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 00:53:07 »
I must say, very good point Bemark.
when you know something but can’t explain it in words. Over time he gives it to you. I was asking the Lord please explain it to me

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #422 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 00:53:07 »

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #423 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 02:16:37 »
He had no hatred in him, no desire for vengeance  . That is why, while he was  being tortured to death on the cross he could say. Forgive them for they do not know what they do.

Luke 23:34 New King James Version (NKJV)

Luke 23

34 [a]Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots.

« Last Edit: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 02:21:14 by bemark »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #423 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 02:16:37 »
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Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #424 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:06:47 »
So we have a test that was going on to prove that he was the son of God. Satan said if you are the son of God . testing him from the start and it never ended.

Ezekiel 28

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

We know he was the son Of God. God almighty. Because he was tested in every way like his brethren and never sinned.
Never was iniquity found in him. There was no desire or bent to do wrong. Not once

Mankind was tested and failed this test. Iniquity was found in them . Angels was tested and failed this test, iniquity was found in them. Only God could ever pass this test ...proven beyond a doubt ...That he alone is Holy. Jesus Christ must be God almighty in flesh. And he did it in a body of flesh. Lol. Never was iniquity found in him. No bent or desire to do wrong. A perfect lamb without spot or blemish.100% pure
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:22:02 by bemark »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #424 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:06:47 »



Online RB

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #425 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:19:55 »
When you know something but can’t explain it in words. Over time he gives it to you. I was asking the Lord please explain it to me
God is GOOD brother Mark.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #425 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:19:55 »

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #426 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:25:37 »
Yes he is, and you prayed for me in words brother . You said the Lord will bless me . He has . After that God started to open up the scriptures to me. You hold a key my dear friend . Keep praying and speaking blessing over the body of Christ. Love you heaps brother

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #427 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:28:08 »
We know he was the son Of God. God almighty. Because he was tested in every way like his brethren and never sinned.
Never was iniquity found in him. There was no desire or bent to do wrong. Not once

Mankind was tested and failed this test. Iniquity was found in them . Angels was tested and failed this test, iniquity was found in them. Only God could ever pass this test ...proven beyond a doubt ...That he alone is Holy. Jesus Christ must be God almighty in flesh. And he did it in a body of flesh. Lol. Never was iniquity found in him. No bent or desire to do wrong. A perfect lamb without spot or blemish.
Brother Mark, may I just correct one small error? You said:
Quote from: bemark
Only God could ever pass this test
God was NOT tested Mark, Jesus the Son OF MAN was tested. God CANNOT be tempted. Jesus', HUMANITY was tested, NOT his deity! Jesus was tested/tempted as a MAN, not as God. We MUST keep Jesus' complex natures separated JUST AS the scriptures do.

You are doing good and are on the right path to the truth, keep up the good work and may God be with you.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #428 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:30:51 »
GB, (and to those who See Jesus like GB) let’s talk about Jesus. While you have pointed out that Jesus is truly a man, like you and me, with scriptures cited, and for which I agree and have no objection, scriptures do tell us more about Jesus.

Scriptures tell us in Hebrew 13:8, that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Scriptures also tell us in John 10:18, that Jesus, himself said, that He has the power to not only give His life, but even the power to take it again.

So you see, while scriptures speaks of Jesus as to be like us, in the sense that He too is man, with flesh, bones, and blood, He is not like man in another sense. For no man is like Jesus who has power even to take His life back again should He give it up or lose it (if losing it is even possible).

Even if one reads over and over again the scriptures, there is no man spoken of, nor of angels, nor of any heavenly beings, who have such power to take his life back after losing it or after death.

Now, having said that, can you even imagine such power? Unimaginable indeed, unfathomable and infinitely wonderful, amazing!

What Jesus in John 10:18 is saying, which perfectly aligns with what the writer of Hebrews says about Him in Heb. 13:8, is that He is indestructible and that death really cannot hold Him. That death had no power over Him,  nor does the devil who holds the power of death. Jesus is telling us that He is the eternal and indestructible life.

If there is One that I would say that possess this great, awesome and incredible power, I can point to no other but the Almighty and Eternal God.

So now, for you and many, such testimony of scriptures regarding Jesus Christ, apparently is mind boggling, enough to lead you and others into thinking that such could not be. That it’s either or. And so to settle this matter, normally one tries to settle this by having their human logical sense tell them which is which. When the only thing that one should do concerning scriptures is to accept and believe the truth that God had revealed in scriptures. Have faith.
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:35:51 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #428 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:30:51 »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #429 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:37:30 »
Now, having said that, can you even imagine such power? Unimaginable indeed, unfathomable and infinitely wonderful, amazing!
And all of God's children said AMEN and AMEN.

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #430 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 05:40:05 »
Brother Mark, may I just correct one small error? You said:God was NOT tested Mark, Jesus the Son OF MAN was tested. God CANNOT be tempted. Jesus', HUMANITY was tested, NOT his deity! Jesus was tested/tempted as a MAN, not as God. We MUST keep Jesus' complex natures separated JUST AS the scriptures do.

You are doing good and are on the right path to the truth, keep up the good work and may God be with you.
Thats why I care for you so much RB. With a loving hand you dot the I and cross the tees. You understand what I am saying and with love correct me. This is the body of Christ in action. God looks down on this and delights in this. Jesus as 12 years old asking questions and giving answers. So Good. I love it

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #431 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 06:26:20 »
Ok RB question time tomorrow about what you have said . I need to sleep my brother.6 on 2 off  12 hour nights in a row for 8 weeks makes one a bit tired. I will see you in about 8 hrs God willing. Its good to grind  our teeth , chew the cud. Spit out the grass

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #432 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 07:30:56 »
Ok RB question time tomorrow about what you have said . I need to sleep my brother.6 on 2 off  12 hour nights in a row for 8 weeks makes one a bit tired. I will see you in about 8 hrs God willing. Its good to grind our teeth chew the cud. Spit out the grass
Quote from: David
Psalm 127:2~"It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep."
May God add hours to your eight hours of sleep. He can take a little and MULTIPLY it into much more. Remember the five barley loaves and the two fishes~John 6:1-14, etc. This miracle ONLY God could do

Offline GB

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #433 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 09:38:34 »
First I don't speak for Red; we have differing views on the Trinity. 

Second, I am not deflecting from discussing anything.  I am just calling you out for your straw man accusation.

Third, I am not really sure what "elephant in the room" you are even referring to, let alone deflecting from it.  And if there is anyone defecting from anything it is most definitely you deflecting from a discussion about the Trinity.

Thanks 4WD.

I over estimated your desire for honest unbiased Scriptural discussion. My bad.

It won't happen again.

GB





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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #434 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 10:57:16 »
I over estimated your desire for honest unbiased Scriptural discussion. My bad.
That certainly goes both ways.  Like so many Leftists today, your view of unbiased discussion seems to be that it is unbiased so long as it agrees with you.

Offline GB

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #435 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 13:39:38 »
That certainly goes both ways.  Like so many Leftists today, your view of unbiased discussion seems to be that it is unbiased so long as it agrees with you.

Yes, well I'm sorry this is all you gained from the pages of scriptures and questions I posed.











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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #436 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 15:18:49 »
Yes, well I'm sorry this is all you gained from the pages of scriptures and questions I posed.
GB, sir, you have NOT posted pages of scriptures, and as a matter of fact, have not addressed many that I have presented to you. You use the same scriptures over and over again EVEN after they have been honestly addressed and proven to be wrong in the sense in which you have used them.   

Sir, the miracles that Jesus did PROVES that he was MORE than just a man. What man can be at a wedding and after all of the wine was used up, and take water and turn that water into the BEST of wine? Wine is much better AFTER years NOT after just making it~White wine has natural acidity that helps improve its flavor over time. Wines with a low pH, such as Pinot Noir and Sangiovese, are more capable of tasting better with age than are less acidic wines........There is NO such man that can make wine BETTER with just plain water than going through the proper method of making wine. Jesus can and did, which PROVED his deity. Such a person can look at their mother and say~"Woman, what have I to do with thee?" But there was ONLY one man, that could say such a thing, and should say such a thing.......Jesus, the Son OF GOD!

There is more in the NT that proved that Jesus was MORE than just a man. Do you want to talk about these scriptures?
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 15:23:05 by RB »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #437 on: Wed Jun 12, 2019 - 16:09:58 »
Yes, well I'm sorry this is all you gained from the pages of scriptures and questions I posed.
GB, what I gained from the few Scriptures you posted and the pages of verbiage is that you have produced your own very, very weird theology of the deity of Jesus Christ and other things.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #438 on: Thu Jun 13, 2019 - 00:55:55 »
Yes, well I'm sorry this is all you gained from the pages of scriptures and questions I posed.

What you had done so far, to which I agree, is show the humanity of Christ. But I'm sorry to say that you were blinded by it that you failed to see the scriptures that speaks of His Deity which is necessarily eternal in nature.

The questions you posed are leading questions to your doctrine of the Godhead, that is, of the Father and the Son, not acknowledging the person of the Holy Spirit.

I pray to the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ the Son, to give you understanding, concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit, revealed in His revelations in Scriptures.

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #439 on: Thu Jun 13, 2019 - 02:08:10 »
May God add hours to your eight hours of sleep. He can take a little and MULTIPLY it into much more. Remember the five barley loaves and the two fishes~John 6:1-14, etc. This miracle ONLY God could do!
After I awoke and rested on my lazy boy and started to wake up throughout the day, I then reread your post to me and I agree with you . I have no questions about it. It all makes perfect sense. :) Iron sharpens iron.

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #440 on: Thu Jun 13, 2019 - 03:47:44 »
Such a person can look at their mother and say~"Woman, what have I to do with thee?" But there was ONLY one man, that could say such a thing, and should say such a thing.......Jesus, the Son OF GOD!


Wow what a gobstopper right there. That’s massive . Great revelation
« Last Edit: Thu Jun 13, 2019 - 03:58:06 by bemark »

Offline bemark

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #441 on: Thu Jun 13, 2019 - 03:50:32 »
Finally I think I have just started to figure out how to cut and paste better than I could before. Now that’s a miracle.lol

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #442 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 07:54:04 »
GB, what I gained from the few Scriptures you posted and the pages of verbiage is that you have produced your own very, very weird theology of the deity of Jesus Christ and other things.

"Few scriptures I posted"




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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #443 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 08:07:54 »
GB, sir, you have NOT posted pages of scriptures, and as a matter of fact, have not addressed many that I have presented to you. You use the same scriptures over and over again EVEN after they have been honestly addressed and proven to be wrong in the sense in which you have used them.   

Sir, the miracles that Jesus did PROVES that he was MORE than just a man. What man can be at a wedding and after all of the wine was used up, and take water and turn that water into the BEST of wine? Wine is much better AFTER years NOT after just making it~White wine has natural acidity that helps improve its flavor over time. Wines with a low pH, such as Pinot Noir and Sangiovese, are more capable of tasting better with age than are less acidic wines........There is NO such man that can make wine BETTER with just plain water than going through the proper method of making wine. Jesus can and did, which PROVED his deity. Such a person can look at their mother and say~"Woman, what have I to do with thee?" But there was ONLY one man, that could say such a thing, and should say such a thing.......Jesus, the Son OF GOD!

There is more in the NT that proved that Jesus was MORE than just a man. Do you want to talk about these scriptures?

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

John 14:Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

My God, which is the same as the God of Jesus, can give any man any power.

We just believe in two different God's.

I'm OK with that.



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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #444 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 08:18:36 »
"Few scriptures I posted"
You tend to produce long posts, most of which is only your own thoughts about things.  There is nothing wrong with that per se.  It is not the scriptures that you post that trouble me; rather it is your often rather strange explanation and interpretation of those scriptures.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #445 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 08:34:35 »


My God, which is the same as the God of Jesus, can give any man any power.



BUT he never did!!!!!!!!  2K years give or take, after Jesus walked this earth, God never gave any man any  power. (Unless you consider Harry Houdini,  David Copperfield et al to work under God given powers?)





We just believe in two different God's.

I'm OK with that.

   ::frown:: More likely you are living in an alternate universe.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #446 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 08:39:08 »
What you had done so far, to which I agree, is show the humanity of Christ. But I'm sorry to say that you were blinded by it that you failed to see the scriptures that speaks of His Deity which is necessarily eternal in nature.

The questions you posed are leading questions to your doctrine of the Godhead, that is, of the Father and the Son, not acknowledging the person of the Holy Spirit.

I pray to the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ the Son, to give you understanding, concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit, revealed in His revelations in Scriptures.

I just want to have an honest, unbiased, open discussion about what the Bible actually teaches. I'm not here to promote some ancient catholic tradition, or the traditions of any religion of this land.

The honest answer to the questions I posed bring many of the religious traditions of the land into question. This is why I posed them.

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This is just one of many scriptures which bring your religion and it's doctrines into question. I post them, not because I "am somebody", but because I know the Jesus of the Bible, as Prophesied, is not the same Jesus being preached in the religions of the land.

Rom. 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I have made the case, and you have rejected it.

I can do no more.






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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #447 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 08:45:18 »
This is just one of many scriptures which bring your religion and it's doctrines into question.
Not really.  It brings your interpretation, religion and it's doctrines into question as well.  And some of those I do not find much support for.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #448 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 09:09:33 »
John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
Jesus, as a MAN, did and should use words such as he used here. This is his HUMANITY speaking.
Quote from: GB  on: Today at 08:07:54
John 14:Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. My God, which is the same as the God of Jesus, can give any man any power.
GB, this is your strongest point yet given, that is that there were men in OT and NT that did miracles, which proved that God was with them doing the miracles and that they were of God. 4WD has already pm saying the same, which I must agree that the miracles "alone" do not prove his deity. Yet, while I must freely admit this, there are certain scriptures that do prove his deity which you have not addressed. Would like to explain such scriptures John 1:48, etc.? Your answer I'm sure will prove that we do indeed believe in two different Jesus.

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #449 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 10:21:12 »
I just want to have an honest, unbiased, open discussion about what the Bible actually teaches. I'm not here to promote some ancient catholic tradition, or the traditions of any religion of this land.

The honest answer to the questions I posed bring many of the religious traditions of the land into question. This is why I posed them.

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This is just one of many scriptures which bring your religion and it's doctrines into question. I post them, not because I "am somebody", but because I know the Jesus of the Bible, as Prophesied, is not the same Jesus being preached in the religions of the land.

Rom. 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I have made the case, and you have rejected it.

I can do no more.

You said "This is just one of many scriptures which bring your religion and it's doctrines into question.", referring to John 20: 17.

What "your religion and it's doctrine" are you talking about? And what in John 20:17 are you getting at, that I don't accept? I accept exactly just what it says.

You use this scriptures to support your belief that Jesus is a man. And as I have already told you, I believe that as well. But then, you use this same scriptures to support your belief that Jesus is not Deity. And to that, I don't agree with you.

Firstly, that scriptures does not say, suggest, nor necessarily point to such conclusion. As I pointed out in one of my post, you were blinded by this, that you failed to see the scriptures that speaks of His Deity which is necessarily eternal in nature.

Secondly, you don't have a grasp of what Deity is. I, and many others here, had been trying to wake you and show you light on this, with the scriptures. Yet you just refuse to see or just really can't see. Deity GB is eternal. Or perhaps you don't grasp what eternal is as well.

You said "I just want to have an honest, unbiased, open discussion about what the Bible actually teaches."

If you are truly honest about what you said, then perhaps you stop avoiding these scriptures and tell me what these scriptures tell you about Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.   

John 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Now, I hope you don't try to again speak of Jesus' humanity in addressing these scriptures. For that is not how it is in understanding what is written. Besides, it is useless to do that, for as I said, I believe in the humanity of Jesus Christ, for scriptures says so. 
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 10:31:37 by Michael2012 »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #450 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 14:24:30 »
Quote
Be Mark: 3390
LIFE  is in the BLOOD

of animal sacrifice .. of animals, all mortals. The Blood of the Lamb of God was in his Life .. in "his Soul poured out" .. the Soul of the only "Christ come in the flesh" God.
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 14:31:19 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #451 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 15:47:33 »
Quote
author=Michael2012 link=topic=103904.msg1055141061#msg1055141061 date=1560525672]
You said "This is just one of many scriptures which bring your religion and it's doctrines into question.", referring to John 20: 17.

What "your religion and it's doctrine" are you talking about? And what in John 20:17 are you getting at, that I don't accept? I accept exactly just what it says.

You use this scriptures to support your belief that Jesus is a man. And as I have already told you, I believe that as well. But then, you use this same scriptures to support your belief that Jesus is not Deity. And to that, I don't agree with you.


Jesus Himself had a Deity, He said it was His God and also my God.

As you said, you don't agree with this, as Prophesied. The Bible doesn't teach Jesus came to earth as a Deity, rather, as a man who worshipped a Deity. If you want to preach, as do "many" who come in Christ's name, that God came to earth as a Deity, you are free to do so.

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Firstly, that scriptures does not say, suggest, nor necessarily point to such conclusion. As I pointed out in one of my post, you were blinded by this, that you failed to see the scriptures that speaks of His Deity which is necessarily eternal in nature.

Again, if I believe the Bible, the man Jesus was born and died. And God, HIS God and my God, exalted Him above every other human ever born of a woman. Jesus Glorified His God and my God His entire life. Your unbelief doesn't make these scriptures void.

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Secondly, you don't have a grasp of what Deity is. I, and many others here, had been trying to wake you and show you light on this, with the scriptures.

No you haven't. You can't use the Scriptures to prove God came to earth as God and as Man, because the scriptures don't teach this. Your religion teaches this, as do many religions of the land, but as I have pointed out, the Bible doesn't, unless you cherry pick a verse here and one there while omitting the rest. A tactic used by the "other religious voice" since Eve was deceived.

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Yet you just refuse to see or just really can't see. Deity GB is eternal. Or perhaps you don't grasp what eternal is as well.

The Jesus of many religions was immortal God that never died because immortal God can not die. The Jesus of the Bible was flesh in "ALL" things as His Brethren and was condemned by the religions of the land. The Jesus of the Religions of the land was Deity, the Jesus of the Bible Humbled Himself to Deity, prayed to Deity, received all His Power from Deity.

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You said "I just want to have an honest, unbiased, open discussion about what the Bible actually teaches."

If you are truly honest about what you said, then perhaps you stop avoiding these scriptures and tell me what these scriptures tell you about Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If you want to preach that Jesus was flesh and Blood in heaven, before the world was, you are free to do so. If you want to preach that Jesus is Flesh and Blood now, in heaven, you are free to do so. But I don't believe the scriptures support such a religion.

It is my understanding that this scripture is referring to the Word's of the Christ being the same yesterday, today and forever, because I don't believe Jesus, the Christ was Flesh and Blood when He created the world, as He was Flesh and blood being condemned by the mainstream religious men of His time. But it's your religion, you preach whatever you want.

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John 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

His God and my God. His Deity and my Deity gave Him the Commandment and the Power.

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Now, I hope you don't try to again speak of Jesus' humanity in addressing these scriptures.

For that is not how it is in understanding what is written. Besides, it is useless to do that, for as I said, I believe in the humanity of Jesus Christ, for scriptures says so.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

The Will of His Deity and my Deity.

Offline fish153

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #452 on: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 22:35:03 »
I just have to ask a question. Will God share His glory with another? No. He says "I am The LORD. My glory I will not share with another".

Yet when we go to the book of Revelation we clearly see a throne called "The throne of God AND of the LAMB".  Jesus states in Revelation that He has "sat down in my Father's Throne".  Think about that for a while. God in the Old Testament says that "every knee shall bow to Him". But the New Testament says that "every knee shall bow" to Jesus.

The devil seeks to diminish what GOD DID on the cross. He takes away glory from God when he says that Jesus was an angel or a created being. Don't you see this and realize it? Jesus is God. John 1:1 clearly says so, and Hebrews says Jesus is the "EXACT representation (or image) of God. I have to ask how can a FINITE created being be an EXACT representation of an INFINITE being? It is impossible.

Jesus is God and to state differently is to accept the lie of Satan. This is why Jesus said "Except you believe that I AM you will die in your sins" (John 8:58).  It is a serious thing to deny the Deity of Christ. It has eternal consequences. Those doing so need to repent and give glory to God.
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 14, 2019 - 22:41:49 by fish153 »

Online NorrinRadd

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #453 on: Sat Jun 15, 2019 - 03:50:54 »
Ok, just for kicks, let's push into the annoying challenges of the Trinity and Incarnation...

If we just look at John 1:1, we get an idea of how daunting this will be (as the discussion to this point has shown).  There, we have an entity John calls "the Word" and an entity John calls "God."  John says the Word was both "with" God and "was" God.  For one entity to be both "with" a second entity and to actually "be" that second entity is outside of our natural daily experience, and is not something either our minds or our language are fully equipped to handle.

Verse 3 makes clear that the Word created everything, and that the Word itself was not created.

Verse 4 shows the Word as the source of life and "light."

The next few verses talk about "the light," and the fact that John the Baptizer testified about Him.

We see that the Word "became" flesh and came to live among us, and that He came "from" the Father (v. 14).

Verse 18, reportedly notoriously difficult to translate, reaffirms that the Father and the Word are both God:

"18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known."  (NET)

By v. 29, it is clear that "the Word" is Jesus.  He has so far been called "God," and has been shown to be distinct from "the Father."  In the next few verses, He is referred to as the "Lamb of God" and the "Chosen One of God," each expression suggesting He is distinct from God, even though the early part of the chapter referred to Him *as* "God."


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"In the beginning" in John 1:1 is a rather clear allusion to Gen. 1:1, esp. in the Septuagint, which was the (Greek) translation most widely used, at least in the Roman Empire.

In the Hebrew, Gen. 1 exclusively refers to "God" (Elohim, Strong's number 430).  Gen. 2 and 3 (beginning with 2:4) almost exclusively uses the compound name "LORD God" (YHVH Elohim, Strong's numbers 3068 and 430), and then Gen. 4 switches to mostly using just "LORD."  After that, no term is used with great consistency.  This is enough to establish that the Creator is known as "God" (Elohim in Hebrew, Theos in Greek), "LORD" (YHVH in Hebrew), or a combination of those.

In Ex. 3, we have the famous account of the "burning bush."  There, God repeatedly refers to Himself as Elohim.  But when Moses asks who he should say sent him, God reveals the Holy Memorial Name "I AM," which is the root of every occurrence of "LORD" (in all caps).

Deut. 6:4, the "Shema," declares that Elohim, the I AM, is "one."

Ex. 20:3, the First Commandment, explicitly declares there is to be no other god besides I AM.  This is reaffirmed many places, including Deut. 4:35, 39; Isa. 43:12; 45:14; Joel 2:27.

So God is I AM and I AM is God, and there is no other God.

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Some may wish to claim that Jesus stopped being God at some point.  Offhand, I cannot directly and completely refute that, meaning I don't know of a place where He was directly called "God" during His earthly ministry.  I have shown that He was called "God" before the Incarnation.  He was called "God" in John 20:28.  (In that same approximate context, He had implicitly claimed divinity in 20:22, which clearly calls to mind Gen. 2:7.)  But this is post-Resurrection.  I *can* cite John 8, wherein Jesus emphatically identifies Himself as "I AM"; this was the most important revealed name of God in the OT.  But I don't know of Him being called "God."  So to claim that Jesus at some point ceased being "God" would mean I AM was still I AM, but was not God until He became God "again" at the Resurrection -- a bizarre notion, but... whatever.  In any case in Revelation 1:17; 2:8; and 22:13, Jesus is identified with terms reserved for Elohim / YHVH in Isa. 44:6; 48:12. 

Scripture is clear enough in teaching that Jesus was, is, and always has been "I AM."  It is clear that He was and is God.  It is clear that He was also in some sense "with" God.  It is clear that the Father is also God.  And it is clear that there is only one God.

It is rather less clear on how to neatly harmonize all of that.   ::smile::

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Is Jesus really All Mighty God?
« Reply #454 on: Sat Jun 15, 2019 - 06:02:10 »
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RB: #427
God was NOT tested Mark, Jesus the Son OF MAN was tested. God CANNOT be tempted. Jesus', HUMANITY was tested, NOT his deity! Jesus was tested/tempted as a MAN, not as God. We MUST keep Jesus' complex natures separated JUST AS the scriptures do.

Jesus GOD the Son of Man was tested; “God cannot be tempted”. The devil proved the futility of trying to tempt Divinity or Divine nature which Jesus had. He tried everything pertaining Jesus' divine humanness but in vain. Jesus' Divine Humanness withstood and overcame satan!

And tried as he may over and over again to tempt Jesus, in Fullness of Divinity Christ withstood the test and cast off temptation so that the devil had no option but to leave Him. Our Saviour Jesus Christ conquered; as God conquered He or, God forbid, failed He as a man.

Cut me out for one where you with obnoxious audacity in capacity of mortal, sinner man, declare like were you God, <We MUST keep Jesus' complex natures separated JUST AS the scriptures do>. Scripture does not do anything of the kind.
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 15, 2019 - 06:09:44 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »