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Author Topic: Is John 20:21-23 for today ?  (Read 443 times)
dan p
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« on: May 01, 2009, 03:24:44 PM »

Hi to all , Jesus is talking to His disciples in John 20: 21 , and the context is Jewish and NOT for Gentiles , for many say that Jesus earthly ministry was more important than anyone Else's .

1) Jesus , in v21 , says to them , AS MY  Father hath sent me , even so send I you .

2) Then in v22 , He breathed on them , and said unto them , Receive ye the Holy Spirit .

3) Remember that this was not yet Pentecost .


4) Then Jesus says ; Whose soever sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them ; and whose soever sins ye retain , they are retained .

5) There are those that say that Christ words are for today , so How do the disciples  REMIT SINS , and Jesus said it .

6) How DO ALL you baptizers reconcile John 20 :23 with Eph 2:8 or with Rom 10:9 ? 










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« on: May 01, 2009, 03:24:44 PM »

 
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Tantor
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 04:31:26 PM »

It would help if you posted in a language that people understand today.

Is that ebonics?
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 04:31:26 PM »

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candy
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »

Maybe we can reconcile John 20:21-23 because Jesus gave His disciples the Holy Spirit before the rest of the believers.  It was given before pentecost.  in Acts 2:4 the Holy Spirit was given to the rest of the believers.  Maybe the original disciples that received the Holy Spirit in John 20 were able to forgive sins or retain them as Jesus said, but the followers who were given the Holy Spirit after the pentecost were not able to forgive or retain sins.
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dan p
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 06:40:24 PM »

It would help if you posted in a language that people understand today.

Is that ebonics?

Hi Tantor , most of what is written , are direct quotes from my KJV  , and it is to bad that John the Baptist is not here to answer your " ebonics " charge .   
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dan p
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 06:43:52 PM »

Maybe we can reconcile John 20:21-23 because Jesus gave His disciples the Holy Spirit before the rest of the believers.  It was given before pentecost.  in Acts 2:4 the Holy Spirit was given to the rest of the believers.  Maybe the original disciples that received the Holy Spirit in John 20 were able to forgive sins or retain them as Jesus said, but the followers who were given the Holy Spirit after the pentecost were not able to forgive or retain sins.

Hi Candy and Tantor .  The OP , WAS , HOW DID THEY remit SINS, which neither of you Adressed and don't address it in " Ebonics " Please .








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candy
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 10:09:08 PM »

Maybe remitting or forgiving sins or retaining them was one of the gifts from the Holy Spirit to the first disciples of Jesus.  Maybe after Pentecost the Holy Spirit did not give that gift to the rest of the believers.  Maybe it was a special gift to the first believers of Jesus and not to the ones who followed after.
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 10:09:08 PM »

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Nevertheless
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 11:06:35 PM »

It would help if you posted in a language that people understand today.

Is that ebonics?

Hi Tantor , most of what is written , are direct quotes from my KJV  , and it is to bad that John the Baptist is not here to answer your " ebonics " charge .  

Do you really think John spoke 17th century English?
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Tantor
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2009, 11:52:18 PM »

It would help if you posted in a language that people understand today.

Is that ebonics?

Hi Tantor , most of what is written , are direct quotes from my KJV  , and it is to bad that John the Baptist is not here to answer your " ebonics " charge .  

Do you really think John spoke 17th century English?

The point I was trying to get accross..  that KJV quotation is extremely hard to understand from a modern day point of view and if we are going to respond to and discuss that passage in modern day english.. having a modern day english translation to start off on would be a great start!

Otherwise, I vote that we respond to all KJV quote in Olde English all the time now.. and see how far that discussion goes.

Besides, the Apostles were fisherman and every day Joes... I highly doubt that the spoke or wrote in the high brow language of their day.
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l.a.providence
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2009, 12:47:19 AM »

they remitted sins before the resurrection.....?

a will is in effect only when a person dies......... remitting sins was different after the dbr?

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live your lives as free men and you won't have to worry about the IM issue!! or any other one for that matter of fact!
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2009, 12:47:19 AM »

 
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candy
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2009, 06:03:03 AM »

Wasn't John 20 written just after Jesus returned to the Father, but before anyone else had seen Him yet?
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2009, 06:03:03 AM »

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dan p
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 07:23:13 PM »

Wasn't John 20 written just after Jesus returned to the Father, but before anyone else had seen Him yet?


1) My first point that is denied by Many , is that the context is Jewish .

2) Those that believe in water Baptism , it is Hard for them , to believe that the Body of Christ is NOT in view , then or NOT now .

3) Many SAY that we need to follow what the earthly Jesus had spoken , and many say that if we don't , consider that Blasphemy .

4) Many follow water Baptism , so you are following what Jesus said to the Disciples .

5) Sins were remitted when the Disciples Baptized any Jew .

6) If they believed what the disciple preached, the Gospel of the Kingdom , that Jesus preached in Matt 4:17 ,

7) Then if they were baptized , their SINS were Remitted .

8) If they refused the message that the disciples preached , then their SINS were retain , like the Pharisees , in Matt 3:7 .

















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transparent.tulip
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 08:38:42 PM »

Hi to all , Jesus is talking to His disciples in John 20: 21 , and the context is Jewish and NOT for Gentiles , for many say that Jesus earthly ministry was more important than anyone Else's .

1) Jesus , in v21 , says to them , AS MY  Father hath sent me , even so send I you .

2) Then in v22 , He breathed on them , and said unto them , Receive ye the Holy Spirit .

3) Remember that this was not yet Pentecost .


4) Then Jesus says ; Whose soever sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them ; and whose soever sins ye retain , they are retained .

5) There are those that say that Christ words are for today , so How do the disciples  REMIT SINS , and Jesus said it .

6) How DO ALL you baptizers reconcile John 20 :23 with Eph 2:8 or with Rom 10:9 ? 












um...he breathed and said this to the disciples..
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2 Corinthians 13:5 (ESV)
5Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Is John 20:21-23 for today ? - Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
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