Author Topic: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal  (Read 1855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 38280
  • Manna: 796
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #35 on: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 20:43:52 »
Buff what is a fish and what is a mammal is NOT a petty detail in a serious discussion of the story of Jonah.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 20:48:14 by Jaime »

Offline Texas Conservative

  • Ethical Dissenter "All 8 Symptoms" Chief Justice! "Radical Political Conservative" Certified Resident Board Genius, it is...Directly. Observable.
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11941
  • Manna: 396
  • My church is 100% right, Your church is 100% wrong
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #36 on: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 21:04:08 »
Buff, if you are so wrong about a shark and you are, what else are you wrong about? Churchianity possibly?   ::headscratch::
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 21:23:57 by Texas Conservative »

Online Reformer

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3869
  • Manna: 95
  • Gender: Male
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #37 on: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 22:14:03 »
Jaime:

    "Buff, what is a fish and what is a mammal is NOT a petty detail in a serious discussion of the story of Jonah."

    I'm fully aware of that, and I agree. But when I'm indirectly placed on the level of a third grader, that's something else. Apparently, you missed the thrust of my response. The nit-picker said, "A third grader knows that."

    Need I explain further? If not, let's drop it, for I have more important matters that need my attention, and probably yours, too.

Kindly,

Buff
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 21:46:19 by Reformer »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #37 on: Mon Jul 05, 2021 - 22:14:03 »

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 38280
  • Manna: 796
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #38 on: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 05:06:24 »
Come to think of it I DID learn that from Mrs Clifton in the third grade. Proceed to the important matters.
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 08:28:11 by Jaime »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #38 on: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 05:06:24 »

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16659
  • Manna: 199
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #39 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:18:11 »
Buff what is a fish and what is a mammal is NOT a petty detail in a serious discussion of the story of Jonah.
The ancients did not know the difference between a whale and a fish.  It was a water creature with fins.  Maybe they realized that some fish could breathe air. 

https://fishionary.fisheries.org/air-breathing/
Quote
Air-breathing occurs in an estimated 450 species and 49 families of fishes, most of which are found in the tropics.  In North America, common air-breathing species include gar, tarpon and bowfin.  Aquarium enthusiasts may be familiar with the air-breathing habits of well-known betas.  Globally the list becomes expansive with many unique adaptations, such as lungfishes, mudskippers, snakeheads or air-breathing catfishes.  Whether a gulp of air at the water’s surface, crawling on land to feed, or maintaining a high tolerance to air exposure with specialized skin, air-breathing allows for unique adaptations and survival in extreme environments.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #39 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:18:11 »



Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8928
  • Manna: 304
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #40 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:22:01 »
It's nitpicking when someone points out a word in the Bible that is wrongly used or mistranslated, but it's going against the word of God when those same errors are brought to light using logic.  ::rollingeyes::

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #40 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:22:01 »

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16659
  • Manna: 199
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #41 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:31:54 »
It's nitpicking when someone points out a word in the Bible that is wrongly used or mistranslated, but it's going against the word of God when those same errors are brought to light using logic.  ::rollingeyes::
Indeed.  I especially like it that in the KJV, both Isaiah and Amos refer to "...the noise of thy viols;" when that family of string instruments would not be invented for at least another 2000 years.

Of course they were well known in 1611.
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 12:41:30 by DaveW »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13768
  • Manna: 367
  • Gender: Male
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #42 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 17:23:33 »
Science is mostly useless in understanding the Bible, but I'll engage in a bit of folly... 

Scientifically, Jonah would have drowned in a whale just the same as he would in a fish.  A whale's trachea does not connect to its mouth; it connects to its blowhole.  The mouth connects to the stomach, so there is no air in a whale's stomach to breathe.  It turns out that Pinocchio isn't scientifically accurate.  So then,

We either must believe that:

(a) God miraculously kept Jonah alive inside the fish (or whale, I guess) for 3 days, in spite of the lack of air.

OR

(b) Jonah actually died, went to the underworld for 3 days, and was brought back.

The second option probably isn't what you learned in Sunday school, but it matches the New Testament pretty well.  Jesus died and spent 3 days in Sheol, and returned.  That being compared to Jonah makes more sense if Jonah also died and spent 3 days in Sheol.

Jarrod



Online Reformer

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3869
  • Manna: 95
  • Gender: Male
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #43 on: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 21:58:24 »

Jarrod:

    I'll go with your "(a)" above. Jonah was being disciplined by the Lord because he tried to escape the mission. He was therefore kept inside the sea creature—and alive, as strongly denoted in the story. Air or no air, a Source stronger than his entombed him for 3 days.

Buff

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #43 on: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 21:58:24 »

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 38280
  • Manna: 796
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #44 on: Fri Jul 09, 2021 - 05:35:35 »
(a) or (b) would require God’s intervention. So I’m good either way.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 05:22:34 by Jaime »

Offline Rella

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9838
  • Manna: 664
  • Just in case:
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #45 on: Fri Jul 09, 2021 - 09:04:06 »
Science is mostly useless in understanding the Bible, but I'll engage in a bit of folly... 

Scientifically, Jonah would have drowned in a whale just the same as he would in a fish.  A whale's trachea does not connect to its mouth; it connects to its blowhole.  The mouth connects to the stomach, so there is no air in a whale's stomach to breathe.  It turns out that Pinocchio isn't scientifically accurate.  So then,

We either must believe that:

(a) God miraculously kept Jonah alive inside the fish (or whale, I guess) for 3 days, in spite of the lack of air.

OR

(b) Jonah actually died, went to the underworld for 3 days, and was brought back.

The second option probably isn't what you learned in Sunday school, but it matches the New Testament pretty well.  Jesus died and spent 3 days in Sheol, and returned.  That being compared to Jonah makes more sense if Jonah also died and spent 3 days in Sheol.

Jarrod

 That being compared to Jonah makes more sense if Jonah also died and spent 3 days in Sheol.  ::doh::

I am sick and tired of people always trying to compare what happened to Jesus in relationship to other people.

That being said.... First... it was a great fish. not necessarily a whale.

Just because a "scientist" or worse yet... a clergy a few centuries back translated the great fish to mean a whale simply because they were totally unfamiliar with the very large creations God had made back when... does not make Jonah's fish into Moby Dick.

Next: Are you putting limitations on God's ability to keep anyone alive in any circumstance?

It seems that way . And just because you cannot understand how that could work does not mean it did not work. So many comments in other threads makes the reader seem to believe that if it cannot be explained scientifically then it could not have happened. Sheeeeeesh!!!

C. Why would God not have provided a mechanism for Jonah to breath in that great fish, that He created... possibly for this single purpose... After all. God provided for a baby to not drown inside a mothers belly for 9 months... You know... that umbilical cord thing that can kill a baby if wrapped around the neck or it gets pinched in some way.

So many people here want to limit what God can do. Why  ::shrug::

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16659
  • Manna: 199
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #46 on: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 04:58:37 »
(a) or (b) would require God’s intervention. Si I’m good either way.
I go with (a) for the following reason:

Jonah 2:1 
Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the stomach of the fish,


Not from Abraham's bosom or other afterlife location, from inside the animal.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13768
  • Manna: 367
  • Gender: Male
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #47 on: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 20:14:57 »
I go with (a) for the following reason:

Jonah 2:1 
Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the stomach of the fish,


Not from Abraham's bosom or other afterlife location, from inside the animal.
But on the other hand...

Jon 2:6  I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her [prison] bars were about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.  When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

Actually, I had never read Jonah in Hebrew before a few days ago.  It's really interesting looking at all the overloaded words there.  It's really easy to read "underworld" into the book on second look.  You should read it interlinear if you haven't before, Dave.

Jarrod

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 38280
  • Manna: 796
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Jonah’s Journey In The Belly Of A Mammal
« Reply #48 on: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 21:16:47 »
In the Hebrew thinking the sea was the abyss.