Author Topic: The World Of Judas Iscariots  (Read 1723 times)

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Offline Reformer

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The World Of Judas Iscariots
« on: Thu May 12, 2022 - 17:27:58 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
______________________
 
The World Of
JUDAS ISCARIOTS

    Judas Iscariot was a thief, a liar, and a traitor. The evil spirit that possessed him was not forced upon him. He embodied it, developed it, cultivated it, and fantasized about it until it controlled him. But let us suppose Judas had gone to the Lord about his evil nature and said:
 
    “Master, I cannot help being what I am. According to my DNA, I have far more thievery chromosomes and genes than I have ‘straight’ or honest genes. My DNA also reveals that I have far more perjury chromosomes and genes than I have truth genes. The same is true of my being a traitor. My traitor genes far outweigh my loyal genes. What I’m trying to say, Master, is that I’m compelled to be what I have been from birth—a thief, a liar, a traitor. Will you and your other disciples accept me as I am?”
 
    If this had actually occurred, what would have been Jesus’ reply? He might have responded, “Judas, your wickedness is not because of malformation of genes and chromosomes. It is because you have chosen that lifestyle above decency, morality, honesty, and trustworthiness. You were not that way at birth. Your mother did not give birth to a thief, a liar, and a traitor. But you did!”
 
    Genes help to determine our physical, mental, and sexual traits. Medical authorities say Genes can be defined as a region of DNA that controls hereditary characteristics. But let’s not carry this beyond the reach of reality. For if, as an example, homosexuals and lesbians are that way because of a malformation of genes, the liar, the thief, the rapist, the pedophile, the voyeur, and the exhibitionist are that way because of a malformation of genes. The “logic” that applies to one should equally apply to all.
 
    If a liar is that way because he chose, developed, and cultivated that trait—possibly because of environmental factors—the homosexual and lesbian are that way because they adopted, developed, and cultivated that sexual characteristic. Of interest is that according to various medical sources, the “female gene” argument is highly questionable and is no more valid than the “rapist gene” or the “pedophile gene” or the “gene” associated with lying. A female with female reproductive organs who claims to be more male than female needs psychiatric help, not surgical incisions.
 
    But is there a little wiggle room for error in this reasoning. Some, yes, but very little. As per a token of “research,” a small segment of the homosexual community is born with sexual aberrations, or departures from the norm—aberrations which seem to spur their sexual thoughts in the direction of the same gender. However, there’s some question whether a malformation of genes is the culprit. I don’t believe that factor has been solidly and medically established. Some medical researchers affirm it, others deny it. There is strong evidence that genes are not the cause of sexual perversions—or the cause of lying, raping, fornication, thievery, adultery, or incest.
 
    Some people are predisposed to certain behaviors or, better still, strongly susceptible to certain behaviors. I once had a brother-in-law—now deceased—whose biological system was so susceptible to alcohol that to even get a whiff of it sent him on a long drinking spree. True, he had no control over his susceptibility to alcohol, but he did have control over his behavior or reaction to it. Just so with the average homosexual.
 
    It is noteworthy that to the Christian community at Corinth, the apostle Paul wrote that practicing homosexuals will not “inherit the [eternal] reign of God” [1 Cor. 6:9-11]. He added, “And such were some of you.” In the Corinthian congregation, there were recovering alcoholics, recovering revilers, recovering liars, recovering swindlers, recovering thieves, and recovering homosexuals. The message here is that regardless of the depravity, recovery is possible.
« Last Edit: Sat May 14, 2022 - 20:13:54 by Reformer »

Offline johntwayne

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #1 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 01:09:11 »
 ::amen!::

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #2 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 06:57:37 »
I agree mostly with what you wrote there.  However, I think you have pushed it a little beyond what is true.

Some people are predisposed to certain behaviors or, better still, strongly susceptible to certain behaviors. I once had a brother-in-law—now deceased—whose biological system was so susceptible to alcohol that to even get a whiff of it sent him on a long drinking spree. True, he had no control over his susceptibility to alcohol, but he did have control over his behavior or reaction to it. Just so with the average homosexual.
  What you have said there is very similar to the old adage, "it just takes a little willpower".  As one person noted, "try taking a couple of tablets of a strong laxative and see if willpower will keep you off of the toilet." The fact is that the alcoholic is typically both physically and mentally addicted.  Most alcoholics did not intend to become alcoholics; they did not intend to become addicted.  And, quite opposite to your claim that your brother-in-law had control over his behavior or reaction to alcohol, the fact is that he did not have control over his reaction to alcohol.  That is what it means to be addicted.  And once addicted, he didn't really have control over his behavior to it.  That does not excuse the alcoholic. There was a point, before he became addicted, that he could have and should have recognized his tendency to intoxication and then, knowing the probable end of becoming addicted with all that is bad about addiction, avoided all contact with it.  That is much the same as other addictions, such as those who become addicted to pain killers after being legitimately prescribed them.

There is a lot more to be said about such things, but I will stop there.

Offline Reformer

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #3 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 16:12:08 »
4WD:

    We do not agree fully here - mostly, but not fully. I worked with alcoholics and drug addicts for years. Interesting vocation.

    Just here, I will pass a note along regarding the Buffalo shooting yesterday. It appeared in my weekly column earlier today.

    THE BUFFALO SHOOTING— Eleven black persons and two white persons were shot yesterday by a “Judas Iscariot.” Raciest? Of course. But when another black person shoots one or more white persons, will the liberal media and the current Administration call it a raciest crime? Watch carefully if there is another shooting and killing by a black “Judas Iscariot.”—Buff.

So long,

Buff 
 
« Last Edit: Sun May 15, 2022 - 16:14:26 by Reformer »

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« Reply #3 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 16:12:08 »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #4 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 17:48:51 »
What is the point in calling people Judas Iscariot?

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« Reply #4 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 17:48:51 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #5 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 20:54:30 »
TEXAS RANGER:

"What is the point in calling people Judas Iscariot?"

    Calling attention to wickedness in general—regardless of color, race, or location. Judas portrayed depravity. I could have used other "historical" names, but Judas stands out rather vividly to all races and peoples and nations. Is there anything else about the post that got your attention?

Buff

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #6 on: Tue May 17, 2022 - 18:51:22 »
    Genes help to determine our physical, mental, and sexual traits. Medical authorities say Genes can be defined as a region of DNA that controls hereditary characteristics. But let’s not carry this beyond the reach of reality. For if, as an example, homosexuals and lesbians are that way because of a malformation of genes, the liar, the thief, the rapist, the pedophile, the voyeur, and the exhibitionist are that way because of a malformation of genes. The “logic” that applies to one should equally apply to all.
Don't you think that there are genes that pre-dispose people to all of those things?  I do.

Bottom line is that "bad genes" don't excuse bad behavior.

Maybe the Spartans had the right idea after all...

Offline Reformer

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #7 on: Tue May 17, 2022 - 22:32:01 »
Jarrod:

"Don't you think there are genes that pre-dispose people to all of those things? I do.

    I guess my question would be, "Who, then, is the creator of those 'bad genes' "? God, of course, made man physically and biologically perfect. After man fell, I can easily see him knowingly developing "bad genes," which contribute to his bad behavior. Or as you said, "Bad genes don't excuse bad behavior." 

    I'm convinced we have control, or are the author of, negative behavior—or our reaction to "bad genes." A homosexual's "bad genes" relating to sex apparently spur his sexual thoughts in the direction of the same gender. But he is not constrained to act upon those unethical genes.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Buff
« Last Edit: Tue May 17, 2022 - 22:34:22 by Reformer »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 06:09:12 »
Judas Iscariot was a thief, a liar, and a traitor. The evil spirit that possessed him was not forced upon him. He embodied it, developed it, cultivated it, and fantasized about it until it controlled him. But let us suppose Judas had gone to the Lord about his evil nature and said:
 
“Master, I cannot help being what I am. According to my DNA, I have far more thievery chromosomes and genes than I have ‘straight’ or honest genes. My DNA also reveals that I have far more perjury chromosomes and genes than I have truth genes. The same is true of my being a traitor. My traitor genes far outweigh my loyal genes. What I’m trying to say, Master, is that I’m compelled to be what I have been from birth—a thief, a liar, a traitor. Will you and your other disciples accept me as I am?”[/size]
Of course no one in the first century ( or the next 18 for that matter) had any clue about chromosomes, genes, DNA, etc. IT is a thoroughly modern understanding.  But with that, DNA ONLY holds information of a physical nature like eye or hair color, bone structure, etc. It carries no information of a moral or legal nature.  So saying Judas was "a thief, a liar, and a traitor" really has NOTHING to do with his DNA.  Or anyone else's for that matter.

OF course, it is possible that our spirit side has some kind of equivalent information carrying structure that functions similar to DNA, but how would anyone prove that when we cannot even define what a human spirit is or if it even exists?  I lean toward there being such a thing, but there is no proof in either the Bible or science.

 
Quote
It is noteworthy that to the Christian community at Corinth, the apostle Paul wrote that practicing homosexuals will not “inherit the [eternal] reign of God” [1 Cor. 6:9-11]. He added, “And such were some of you.”
This seems to be a side topic but since it is in the OP, I will comment on it.

Buff -  you are adding text to scripture.  You are saying this applies to PRACTICING homosexuals.  Where in the text do you get that?  There has been a long standing debate on whether the sin of male homosexuality was in the act itself or the orientation/same sex desire.  I lean toward the latter.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 06:09:12 »

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #9 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 06:36:53 »
OF course, it is possible that our spirit side has some kind of equivalent information carrying structure that functions similar to DNA, but how would anyone prove that when we cannot even define what a human spirit is or if it even exists?  I lean toward there being such a thing, but there is no proof in either the Bible or science.
The bible certainly has a lot to say about the human spirit about which you say there is no proof.  The Bible is the  proof.  By your argument there is no proof in either the Bible or science that there is sin.

Quote
Buff -  you are adding text to scripture.  You are saying this applies to PRACTICING homosexuals.  Where in the text do you get that?  There has been a long standing debate on whether the sin of male homosexuality was in the act itself or the orientation/same sex desire.  I lean toward the latter.
You say you are leaning toward the latter, but that means that sin is in the temptation.  But then, according to Scripture, Jesus was tempted; did He therefore sin?

Offline Alan

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #10 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 11:13:42 »

    THE BUFFALO SHOOTING— Eleven black persons and two white persons were shot yesterday by a “Judas Iscariot.” Raciest? Of course. But when another black person shoots one or more white persons, will the liberal media and the current Administration call it a raciest crime? Watch carefully if there is another shooting and killing by a black “Judas Iscariot.”—Buff.

 


The media definitely bolsters any crimes committed against ethnics by whites as racist, but in this case it was glaringly obvious as the perpetrator intended it to be such. Do you have an example of a mass killing committed by an ethnic race against whites that was minimized by the media?

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #11 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 12:03:50 »
    I guess my question would be, "Who, then, is the creator of those 'bad genes' "? God, of course, made man physically and biologically perfect. After man fell, I can easily see him knowingly developing "bad genes," which contribute to his bad behavior.
Disagree.  I don't subscribe to the notion that God created everything ::chefskiss:: perfect, and it's all been downhill from there. 

I read in my Bible that when God first created everything, it was formless and void, and then God got to work shaping it.  From what I hear, God is the Potter, and we all start off a little lumpy.  ::lookaround::

I'm convinced we have control, or are the author of, negative behavior—or our reaction to "bad genes." A homosexual's "bad genes" relating to sex apparently spur his sexual thoughts in the direction of the same gender. But he is not constrained to act upon those unethical genes.
Agree.  The way I figure, gay or straight it's about the same.  We all have impulses and desires.  Most of us don't act on the bad ones, because decency, or at least a healthy fear of imprisonment or retribution.

Jarrod

Offline Reformer

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #12 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 22:50:51 »
DaveW - Jarrod - Alan - 4WD:

Gone all day. I will comment on your replies tomorrow, hopefully.

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #13 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 23:15:48 »
Alan,

In the last six months, Darrell Brooks killed six people by driving into a parade.  He notoriously hated whites.  Media minimized it.  Doesn't fit the white supremacy narrative.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-violence-against-white-people/amp/

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #14 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 07:15:14 »
They’ve gotta keep the white on black racism scab picked off and the wound oozing. That’s been the Democrat narrative for the last 70 years since their own Jim Crow days. Of course the media is their mouthpiece, so white on black racism is all that counts.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #15 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 09:57:55 »
The bible certainly has a lot to say about the human spirit about which you say there is no proof.  The Bible is the  proof.  By your argument there is no proof in either the Bible or science that there is sin.
No.  The bible certainly has indicators that something like that is going on. 

But an indicator is NOT proof of what exactly it is and that it is working a certain way (like DNA passing down traits from our parents).  A way that we can put in a lab and duplicate results in a scientific study. 

Offline Reformer

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #16 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 13:40:15 »
DaveW:

    4WD has done a good job addressing your viewpoint on “spirit,” in your Reply #8 to my post on Judas Iscariot, but I want to share my thoughts as well. 

    Steven, the first recorded Christian martyr, while being stoned by his enemies, and while in the process of dying from his wounds, looked up to heaven and cried out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” [Acts, chapter 7].

    As Jesus was dying on a Roman tree, He looked up to His Father and cried out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit" [Matt. 23:46].

      And James writes in James 2:26, “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works [functional actions] is dead.”

     John says in John 4:24, “God is spirit, and those who worship Him...” And I could go on-and-on with this. There are many other passages whose contents and contexts define “spirit” as the crux of a man.

    “Spirit” and “soul” are often used interchangeably, however. I have checked and re-checked each Hebrew and Greek term as to “spirit,” and I am convinced the scriptures teach that man’s nucleus—essence/center—is his spirit. Plus, we always have the contents and context wherein the term is used—spirit, wind, or breath. That, in itself, should help define which term is meant.

    Note the following: “...yielded up His spirit" [Matt. 27:50].  “...and He bowed His head and gave up His spirit” [John 19:30]. “Spirit” in these passages entail the essential character or principle element that drives a man to act or prompts him to produce, function, and achieve. It does not seem logical to conclude that our God is engaged in preserving a man’s breath, as some interpret "spirit."

Buff


Offline DaveW

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #17 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 13:51:30 »
DaveW:

    4WD has done a good job addressing your viewpoint on “spirit,” in your Reply #8 to my post on Judas Iscariot, but I want to share my thoughts as well. 

    Steven, the first recorded Christian martyr, while being stoned by his enemies, and while in the process of dying from his wounds, looked up to heaven and cried out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” [Acts, chapter 7].

    As Jesus was dying on a Roman tree, He looked up to His Father and cried out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit"[Matt. 23:46]

      And James writes in James 2:26, “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works [functional actions] is dead.”

     John says in John 4:24, “God is spirit, and those who worship Him...” And I could go on-and-on with this. There are many other passages whose contents and contexts define “spirit” as the crux of a man.

    “Spirit” and “soul” are often used interchangeably, however. I have checked and re-checked each Hebrew and Greek term as to “spirit,” and I am convinced the scriptures teach that man’s nucleus—essence/center—is his spirit. Plus, we always have the contents and context wherein the term is used—spirit, wind, or breath. That, in itself, should help define which term is meant.

    Note the following: “...yielded up His spirit"[Matt. 27:50].  “...and He bowed His head and gave up His spirit” [John 19:30]. “Spirit” in these passages entail the essential character or principle element that drives a man to act or prompts him to produce, function, and achieve. It does not seem logical to conclude that our God is engaged in preserving a man’s breath, as some interpret "spirit."
Buff - and the others -  I am NOT arguing against there being a spirit within men.  I am absolutely believing we all have individual spirits  that can connect and commune with GOD.

What I was saying that we have no proof for is the internal structure of said spirit, and whether (or not) there is a structure analogous to our physical DNA.   Personally, I tend to think there must be a DNA equivalent, but have no proof for that.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #18 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 13:53:21 »
Texas Ranger:

     “In the last six months, Darrell Brooks killed six people by driving into a parade.  He notoriously hated whites.  Media minimized it.  Doesn't fit the white supremacy narrative.”

    Thank you, my brother, for posting this information about Darrell Brooks. I had forgotten about the violent incident. And, yes, you are so very correct, the media minimized it. I have a high level of respect for anyone who "tells it like it is."

Buff
« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2022 - 14:12:05 by Reformer »

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #19 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 14:00:19 »
DaveW:

    If what you're saying now is what you meant to say earlier, you are having a problematic level of communicating your ideas.

No offence intended,

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #20 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 14:51:42 »
Jarrod:

    "Disagree. I don't subscribe to the notion that God created everything ::chefskiss:: perfect, and it's all been downhill from there."

    "It's all been down hill" o n l y  since man sinned—disobeyed his Maker. Sin was non-existent until man thought he knew more than his God and devised his own environment. Man and his wife were like the animals God created, naked. They knew not they were nude until they created their own path to walk.

    There are a host of heavenly testimonials which testify sin was non-existent until man parroted his own way.

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #21 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 15:08:59 »
    "It's all been down hill" o n l y  since man sinned—disobeyed his Maker. Sin was non-existent until man thought he knew more than his God and devised his own environment. Man and his wife were like the animals God created, naked. They knew not they were nude until they created their own path to walk.

    There are a host of heavenly testimonials which testify sin was non-existent until man parroted his own way.
The Bible doesn't say that God created everything perfect.  It says he created everything formless and void.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #22 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 15:26:16 »
DaveW:

    "Buff -  you are adding text to scripture. You are saying this applies to PRACTICING homosexuals.  Where in the text do you get that? There has been a long standing debate on whether the sin of male homosexuality was in the act itself or the orientation/same sex desire. I lean toward the latter."

    Here are the scriptures, Dave, you are referencing. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the [eternal] kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" [I Cor. 6:9-11, English Standard Version].

    The NIV says "male prostitutes" or "homosexual offenders." The Greek translates it, "a sodomite - abuser of self with mankind."

    Note the terms "men who practice homosexuality." Of course non-practicing saved or sanctified homosexuals are included in Paul's condemnation. Only the active ones are included. Too, non-practicing thieves and non-practicing adulterers received Paul's denouncement. Only the active ones.

Enough for now,

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #23 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 15:47:52 »
Jarrod:

    "The Bible doesn't say that God created everything perfect. It says he created everything formless and void."

    Of course the scripture doesn't use "perfect" in the sense I am using it. Let's substitute "complete" in the place of "perfect" and the same conclusion follows. A few additional adjectives might help as well.

1] God created precisely the world and its occupants.
2] God flawlessly created humanity.
3] God created man without defect.
4] God did not err when He made man.

    The entire volume of scriptures advance the idea that mankind was made, created, without defect or flaw. If you wish that I refer specifically to a few passages of scripture that bolster this affirmation, I will take the time later this afternoon to supply them. But for now, my time is spent.

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #24 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 22:12:15 »
Jarrod:

    Before retiring for the night, here are a few passages that contain the term “perfect.” In most of the passages the Greek scholar Thayer renders them “complete” or of “full age.”

    God therefore created a perfect or complete Earth when He took a mass of material and reformed it, and then placed a perfect or complete animal-kind and humankind upon it. And it remained such until man solicited and took to himself what his Maker denied him.

Matthew 5:48
Romans 12:2
I Cor. 13:10
II Cor. 12:9
Col. 3:14
Heb. 10:1
Heb. 11:40


Etc., etc.

Buff
« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2022 - 22:16:50 by Reformer »

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #25 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 04:41:11 »
No.  The bible certainly has indicators that something like that is going on. 

But an indicator is NOT proof of what exactly it is and that it is working a certain way (like DNA passing down traits from our parents).  A way that we can put in a lab and duplicate results in a scientific study.

The same can be said about God, Himself.  If you are unsure about the spirit of man, then you are also unsure about God; you cannot be certain in your belief in God of the Bible and not be certain of your belief in the spirit of man.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #26 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 04:49:40 »
Jarrod:

    "The Bible doesn't say that God created everything perfect. It says he created everything formless and void."

    Of course the scripture doesn't use "perfect" in the sense I am using it. Let's substitute "complete" in the place of "perfect" and the same conclusion follows. A few additional adjectives might help as well.

1] God created precisely the world and its occupants.
2] God flawlessly created humanity.
3] God created man without defect.
4] God did not err when He made man.

    The entire volume of scriptures advance the idea that mankind was made, created, without defect or flaw. If you wish that I refer specifically to a few passages of scripture that bolster this affirmation, I will take the time later this afternoon to supply them. But for now, my time is spent.

Buff

You are confusing man's sinning with a flaw or a defect. God created man with the ability to choose to obey or disobey. That is not a defect. 

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #27 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 05:02:14 »
God therefore created a perfect or complete Earth when He took a mass of material and reformed it, and then placed a perfect or complete animal-kind and humankind upon it. And it remained such until man solicited and took to himself what his Maker denied him.
His creation is now precisely as he created it. Man was created with the ability to choose. I would argue that man being created with the ability to choose was/is the very purpose for the creation of the entire universe.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #28 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 10:17:20 »
"Buff -  you are adding text to scripture. You are saying this applies to PRACTICING homosexuals.  Where in the text do you get that? There has been a long standing debate on whether the sin of male homosexuality was in the act itself or the orientation/same sex desire. I lean toward the latter."[/i] 
Here are the scriptures, Dave, you are referencing. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the [eternal] kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" [I Cor. 6:9-11, English Standard Version].

    The NIV says "male prostitutes" or "homosexual offenders." The Greek translates it, "a sodomite - abuser of self with mankind."

    Note the terms "men who practice homosexuality." Of course non-practicing saved or sanctified homosexuals are included in Paul's condemnation. Only the active ones are included. Too, non-practicing thieves and non-practicing adulterers received Paul's denouncement. Only the active ones.
I am not a fan of the ESV.  THis is one of the reasons for that.  There are 2 greek words in that passage, one is commonly translated "homosexuals" and the other "effeminate."   But both are referring to two sides of a same sex relationship.  Dr Derek Prince (a classical greek scholar) explained how those words were used in common Greek society.  (he taught Greek philosophy before becoming a believer)
And the words not only indicated the actions but the internal desires as well.  So those referred to with "Such were some of you... ," are those who not only have stopped doing that, but have had their desires changed as well.

Did not our Lord say in Matt 5.21-22 that even becoming mad at someone made that person guilty of murder? Or lusting made the person guilty of adultery? (v28)  Desires and feelings count as much as actions.
« Last Edit: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:25:00 by DaveW »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #29 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:21:59 »
The same can be said about God, Himself. 
Disagree - I think.
Quote
If you are unsure about the spirit of man, then you are also unsure about God; you cannot be certain in your belief in God of the Bible and not be certain of your belief in the spirit of man.
Yes I am VERY unsure as to the make up and structure of the workings of the Godhead. 

We know God is ONE, we also know there are Father Son and Holy Spirit.  Revelation says there are seven Spirits of God.

So God is ONE, God is 3 and God is 7.    Give me a map (proven by scripture) that breaks that structure down the way we have mapped the human body and cell structure and DNA sequencing.  Can anyone do that???  If not, then you are just as uncertain as I am.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #30 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:29:44 »
DaveW:
If what you're saying now is what you meant to say earlier, you are having a problematic level of communicating your ideas.
No offense intended,
None taken.  I have been told by many that I am way too verbose and lose people in unnecessary detail.  So I try (from time to time) to limit my responses and explanations to the minimum.  Apparently I lose people that way as well. 

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #31 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:37:34 »
4WD:

"His creation is now precisely as he created it."

    If by "creation" you mean the whole of the physical universe, you are mostly correct. Part of His creation, namely, Planet Earth and its occupants, were also initially created in perfect/complete order and remained that way until man sinned, at which time everything "fell apart" and Satan "sort of took over."

    We have an imperfect Earth and imperfect occupants today, just the opposite of what they were initially. In the Garden of Eden man was without blemish until Satan convinced them they knew more than their Maker.

Buff
« Last Edit: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:40:16 by Reformer »

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #32 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:45:28 »
His creation is now precisely as he created it. Man was created with the ability to choose.
Disagree.  When Man fell away, he took all of creation with him. 

Romans 8:20
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.


The "redemption" will occur when our Lord returns.   But until then, everywhere from Earth to the farthest galaxy billions of lightyears away have all been "subjected to futility."  I take that as the start of the 2nd law of thermodynamics - entropy/randomness always increases. If that is not futility I do not know what is.  Everything goes to H*** in a handbasket.

NO - the universe is NOT as it was when God created it.

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #33 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 11:54:28 »
4WD:

    "You are confusing man's sinning with a flaw or a defect. God created man with the ability to choose to obey or disobey. That is not a defect."

    Sin is not only a flaw and a defect, but it encompasses a host of other fleshly weaknesses. True, to choose to obey or disobey is not a defect. Nor did I say it was.

Break time!

Buff

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Re: The World Of Judas Iscariots
« Reply #34 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 13:27:43 »
4WD:
"You are confusing man's sinning with a flaw or a defect. God created man with the ability to choose to obey or disobey. That is not a defect."
Sin is not only a flaw and a defect, but it encompasses a host of other fleshly weaknesses. True, to choose to obey or disobey is not a defect. Nor did I say it was.

SIN: 

Hebrew:  Chatah  (H2398)
Greek: hamartia  (G266)

Both are archery terms meaning to miss the mark - the bulls eye.  So whether it is intentional or not, it is a bad aim.

 

     
anything