Author Topic: KJV Onlyism  (Read 10070 times)

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Offline Funguy33

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KJV Onlyism
« on: Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 18:36:14 »



Besides all of the above grievous problems, the devil has ripped and splintered even more of the few real Christians over the ridiculous KJV only issue. Please know that I’m not referring to all KJV users, just those who think the KJV is the only Bible that contains God’s word. To these people the chief issue is to see to it that every Christian only reads the archaic and almost incomprehensible KJV. To them all other translations are perversions.

If one reads only the KJV he will have a limited understanding of the Bible because the wording is so outdated and misleading. Not only will the words, that few have ever heard of before, frustrate and discourage the KJV onlyite, the words they think they know often mean something different. In one congregation, they first read the KJV, then immediately read a newer translation to find out what the KJV Scripture was saying!

The people that fight for the King James Bible alone are, from our observation, mainly very aggressive, misinformed and highly divisive. They consider you unworthy to teach them, even on a subject they mutually agree on, unless you use only the KJV. To them, all books not based exclusively on the KJV, are at best inferior, solely on this single point.

At other times they are seemingly rational, but when it comes to this, they blindly repeat what they have been taught by their misinformed leaders. As discouraged, beaten down and disappointed many Christians are in our dark hour, this KJV only issue has actually made it worse. It is the icing on the devil’s cake to cause even more harm.


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KJV Onlyism
« on: Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 18:36:14 »

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 19:01:10 »

Besides all of the above grievous problems, the devil has ripped and splintered even more of the few real Christians over the ridiculous KJV only issue. Please know that I’m not referring to all KJV users, just those who think the KJV is the only Bible that contains God’s word. To these people the chief issue is to see to it that every Christian only reads the archaic and almost incomprehensible KJV. To them all other translations are perversions.

If one reads only the KJV he will have a limited understanding of the Bible because the wording is so outdated and misleading. Not only will the words, that few have ever heard of before, frustrate and discourage the KJV onlyite, the words they think they know often mean something different. In one congregation, they first read the KJV, then immediately read a newer translation to find out what the KJV Scripture was saying!

The people that fight for the King James Bible alone are, from our observation, mainly very aggressive, misinformed and highly divisive. They consider you unworthy to teach them, even on a subject they mutually agree on, unless you use only the KJV. To them, all books not based exclusively on the KJV, are at best inferior, solely on this single point.

At other times they are seemingly rational, but when it comes to this, they blindly repeat what they have been taught by their misinformed leaders. As discouraged, beaten down and disappointed many Christians are in our dark hour, this KJV only issue has actually made it worse. It is the icing on the devil’s cake to cause even more harm.


I LOVE IT!!! Thank you!!!
I touched upon this on another forum. Someone there said that up until the 1800s the KJV had been the most accurate english translation. The KJV's standing dropped in the 1800s, but the bias has stuck around for another 200+ years. My baptist cousin went to seminary, where they told him that any version, including the KJV, is only as good as it's translation from the greek. My cousin said he was surprised, but that he did learn.
It shows how gullible we humans are and how seldom people develop their own convictions from their own individual Bible Study.It shows how Powerful and deceptive tradition really is. Another example is how Pope Gregory the great caused generations of people to falsley believe that Mary Magdelene was a harlot.

I am surprised this KJV stuff still goes on. I thought this might have passed already.

Thank you for posting this.
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 17, 2012 - 23:20:49 by e.r.m. »

PracticingHisPresence

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:04:45 »
 ::clappingoverhead::

Good post.

David

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:04:45 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:11:07 »
The church I attended in highschool was KJVO.  They insisted that only GOD could authorize scripture.  When I tried to tell them the authorization came from the king of England they looked at me like I had 3 heads or something. 

So for years I thought that KJVO was just a symptom of ignorance.

Until I started reading some others on another website that insist on a RE-INSPIRATION of God's Word in 1611 that invalidated all Greek Hebrew Latin and earlier english texts.

That is scarey.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:11:07 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:40:45 »
The church I attended in highschool was KJVO.  They insisted that only GOD could authorize scripture.  When I tried to tell them the authorization came from the king of England they looked at me like I had 3 heads or something. 

So for years I thought that KJVO was just a symptom of ignorance.

Until I started reading some others on another website that insist on a RE-INSPIRATION of God's Word in 1611 that invalidated all Greek Hebrew Latin and earlier english texts.

That is scarey.
That sounds like some degree of brainwashing.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 09:40:45 »



Offline Debbie_55

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 12:39:53 »
Since I can not read Greek, Latin nor any other languages other than English, which Bible or book do you feel we need to be studying from. After all, is it not the Holy Spirit, John 14:26, that teaches us and not mans interpretations of traditional doctrines. I will stick with my KJV, but anyone is free to use what they feel works for them, but only if they are listening to the Holy Spirit to know from truth or error, 1 John 4:1:8.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 12:39:53 »

Offline gospel

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 12:46:57 »
Not surprisingly many KJV only folks, not being fluent in the King's English have a very minimal understanding of scripture and that is for the simple reason that....

.....they don't understand the language,

Which is an additional hurdle, presenting the added burden of

First understanding what is being said

Before they can even begin to

Understand the Intent of God in what is written

and understanding what is meant by what is written

If that makes any sense  ::juggle::

While I love the language of the King James, my favorite bible being KJV

I prefer the NKJV among several other versions like the NASB, AKV, NIV and NLT

at the same time consulting many other versions

for the utmost clarity

That said, if one would be honest it is commonly known among believers that

one of the best cures of insomnia is The KJV

Which is why, though all believers should be acquainted with it,

it is also one of the worse ways for a new convert to start out studying, especially if they are forced to study it alone


 ::reading::

Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:03:26 »
Since I can not read Greek, Latin nor any other languages other than English, which Bible or book do you feel we need to be studying from. After all, is it not the Holy Spirit, John 14:26, that teaches us and not mans interpretations of traditional doctrines. I will stick with my KJV, but anyone is free to use what they feel works for them, but only if they are listening to the Holy Spirit to know from truth or error, 1 John 4:1:8.
Listening to the Holy Spirit is important.  But God gave us teachers that should understand greek and hebrew and be able to properly present the Word that way.

Offline Carey

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:20:23 »
I enjoy reading old stuff, IIRC it was C.S. Lewis that ignited an enthusiasm for literature of age in me, if nothing else than to dispel any biases about the intelligence of our ancestry.

Like brother gospel, I enjoy the language of the era when KJV was written, it has a noble quality about it that makes me think of castles, dragons, and maidens in distress.  I have a few examples of literature from that time, it is quite extraordinary how English has changed over the centuries, and even in the last hundred years.

Indeed the KJV has a certain beauty about it, but it needs translation before interpretation, I tend to rely more on the NIV than any other.

Carey.


Off on a tangent:

Edit: I just pulled down an old book, "Essays and New Atlantis" by Francis Bacon.  A great book, Bacon did not always practice what he preached but his wisdom is undeniable. 

What is remarkable is the inclusion of Latin as he was less than confident in the permanency of his mother tongue, and wanted to add some durability to his work.  IIRC he believed the literate would always hold an understanding of Latin linguistics.

His fictional work "New Atlantis" is almost prophetic in some regards to the technology of today, it would be very cool to show him around my world. 

Sorry for the rambling, the topic unleashed a passion. ::blushing::
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:39:49 by Carey »

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:20:23 »

Offline gospel

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:29:11 »
I enjoy reading old stuff, IIRC it was C.S. Lewis that ignited an enthusiasm for literature of age in me, if nothing else than to dispel any biases about the intelligence of our ancestry.

Like brother gospel, I enjoy the language of the era when KJV was written, it has a noble quality about it that makes me think of castles, dragons, and maidens in distress.  I have a few examples of literature from that time, it is quite extraordinary how English has changed over the centuries, and even in the last hundred years.

Indeed the KJV has a certain beauty about it, but it needs translation before interpretation, I tend to rely more on the NIV than any other.

Carey.

Uh oh...you too?

You do realize that in some circles and probably among some here in this forum....
....the NIV is considered a Satanic work?  ::peeking::


Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:45:46 »
Yeah - they call it the Non Inspired Version.

Offline Carey

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:50:47 »

Uh oh...you too?

You do realize that in some circles and probably among some here in this forum....
....the NIV is considered a Satanic work?  ::peeking::



 rofl

I suppose if I let it be known I read(past tense) "The Message" as well it would do little good for my credibility. ::pondering::

 ::whistle::, ::lookaround::


Quote from: DaveW
Yeah - they call it the Non Inspired Version.
::crackup::,  a creative rebuke, gotta like that.

Cheers guys, ::smile::
Carey.
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:59:49 by Carey »

Offline Carey

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 13:54:22 »
In all seriousness,

I tend to look at versions like I do scripture, one can be mislead if he is not mindful of the whole, does not study, and does not rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth.

Carey.

Offline gospel

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 14:14:18 »
In all seriousness,

I tend to look at versions like I do scripture, one can be mislead if he is not mindful of the whole, does not study, and does not rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth.

Carey.



 ::amen!::

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 15:34:40 »
Since I can not read Greek, Latin nor any other languages other than English, which Bible or book do you feel we need to be studying from. After all, is it not the Holy Spirit, John 14:26, that teaches us and not mans interpretations of traditional doctrines. I will stick with my KJV, but anyone is free to use what they feel works for them, but only if they are listening to the Holy Spirit to know from truth or error, 1 John 4:1:8.



Offline candy

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 15:44:14 »
Thank you for posting this.  Yes there are many people that solely rely on the KJV bible.  My opinion is the same as most on this thread.  I use many different versions to gain a deeper understanding of the word.  Whatever version you use depends on how you glean information, but when something is shoved down throats, I wouldn't think that is how Jesus would want us to use his word.  My thoughts.
Candy

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 18:38:40 »
I used many "versions" of the "bible" as well. NIV, NKJV, NASB, NCV, & a reprinted Geneva 1599, before I bought a King James bible.

Without a doubt only two of them were not translated from the "Alexandrian" line of manuscripts.

I didn't know that there are two lines of manuscripts. I was under the impression (as quite a few people are) that all bible "versions" were translated from the same old manuscripts but that is not the case.

The Traditional line with about 5000 manuscripts & the Alexandrian line of about 45 manuscripts.

The idea that a person can't read and understand 16th century English seems absurd today especially when we have so many English speaking "Greek" & "Hebrew" "scholars" on the forums.


Offline e.r.m.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #17 on: Mon Jun 18, 2012 - 20:37:53 »
I used many "versions" of the "bible" as well. NIV, NKJV, NASB, NCV, & a reprinted Geneva 1599, before I bought a King James bible.

Without a doubt only two of them were not translated from the "Alexandrian" line of manuscripts.

I didn't know that there are two lines of manuscripts. I was under the impression (as quite a few people are) that all bible "versions" were translated from the same old manuscripts but that is not the case.

The Traditional line with about 5000 manuscripts & the Alexandrian line of about 45 manuscripts.

The idea that a person can't read and understand 16th century English seems absurd today especially when we have so many English speaking "Greek" & "Hebrew" "scholars" on the forums.


I agree that the 'scholars' as you say can get through KJV, even with words like booty for plunder, lol. I agree with what someone said, not for someone getting started. I use the KJV, NIV (1984), NASB, Holman, and Greek/English interlinear Bibles.

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 13:23:04 »
I have never met yet a person  wether Christian claims to be one  or a Moslem's or atheist ho resorts to accusations or vain assertions  to have any reasonable argument  to support their assertions.

For the record  I  do not accept or believe ANY .... 'ISM ' They tend to be the result of carnal thinking.

The following then  is not in defence of the KJV  but rather contending for the truth.

 Language:

Is it not written "My ways are not your ways and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts"?

If Gods thoughts are  higher than our thoughts  then are not WORDS but expressions of thought?

If then we believe that "ALL scripture was inspired  by the Holy Spirit " and therefore the bible  is but the expression of Gods thoughts.
If His thoughts are higher than our thoughts  then it would be reasonable to suppose that the Word of God  inspired by HIM "who knoweth the mind of God" would be of a higher order also than any modern or even man made book.
The KJV use of language  is not 'archaic' as you suppose  but BIBLICAL. You could even argue quite reasonably  that if we are talking about the  Word of God who is the ancient of days  or "He who is from the beginning" Even your dismissal of it as being archaic  is a presumption.

Moreover as to it being hard to understand ...... so what?!
 Who has gone to university or higher education  has found its language and subject easy to start with?
How much then the more of Gods Word  who's thoughts and ways are  not ours?
Yet there is another argument.
Shakespeare :
His language is Elizabethan not biblical.
But I hear no derogatory  remarks and demands we change his language  and his works to fit modern idiom.
In truth his work is held up ti be the finest  playright ever. yet no one say we should change the language even though its hard to understand to start with.
In truth  he says more in a sentence  than modern day authors say often in many.
How much more has it been proved that Gods Word says more  by its use of correct language says alot more in a verse  or chapter and theologically sound than many modern day theologians say in a book.

Your dismissal of the language of the KJV  is without reasonable foundation then.

In truth  there are very few arguments such as they are biblical or other wise  against the KJV.

The first is its language . Which is no argument. God is not dead.
 Its hard to understand.
On one point so what? This is the highest education of all. I don't expect it to be easy.
 On another ."What knoweth the things of man save the spirit that is in man?" So likewise what knoweth the things of God save the Spirit of God"
The lack of understanding comes very often  because men are subjecting the scriptures to their own carnal and intellectual reasoning's.
Thinking and hoping  that if they learn Greek or Hebrew  and "leaning upon...."  such methods  they understand the scriptures.
I answer to that  I would point you in the direction of Saul of Tarsis  and the majority of the religious leaders who opposed Christ.
Thus men seek to bring the scriptures down to the level of their understanding  and or experience  rather than hold the bible up above all and seek to bring the understanding and the experience in conformity to scripture.
lack of understanding  in any measure is due in the most part  by many  in an unwillingness to lean upon HIM  who inspired the scriptures in the first place  and who therefore can give a true understanding of it even according to the inspiration of it at the beginning.
For he who so inspired them to write the scriptures is also needed with the same anointing  to understands what is written.
Thus in the measure of your faith and maturity in God and meekness will determine the measure of your understanding  to a great degree.
For "little children"  are not "young men" and young men are not "fathers'

The other argument  so often paraded  before the people of God.
is the phrase..............."These verses were not (so they say)  in the original texts"
Yet they do not show prove  or in anyw ay  explain how these verses in any way  violate ,contradict or are not in harmony with all of scripture.
They cant.
Yet  they will not focus  on the many and grave errors  in modern day versions  that have omissions and additions  that  fly in the face of sound doctrine  and deny  basic foundational truths of THE faith.
I don't have to go into them all there are enough good books  found in any good bible book shop that prove the case.

But here is one I found by myself.

ALL modern versions save one  have GEN:1:1 as "In the beginning God created the heavenS and the earth"
ALL versions including the KJV have in Gen 2:1  heavenS
Now if you have heavenS in gen1 and heavenS in gen2  you are MISled to think that the heavenS of chapter 2is the same as chapter 1.
This is clearly not so.

For this reason.

In the beginning  God created the.....................HEAVEN.......and the ...........EARTH. (kjv)

From verse 2 onwards of chapter 1  the scriptures are talking about the EARTH. (not heaven)
and the EARTH was without form and void. etc.
Everything that follows  then is about the earth,
Even the sun and moon and "the stars also"

Then it comes to the waters that were above and below the firmament  and the "Firmament he called .........HEAVEN"

if THE FIRMEMENT IS CALLED HEAVEN  what then is Gen1:1 which has nothing to do with the earth?

It is clear then that  gen 2:1 is speaking  ab out the earthly heavens .Ie the sky where the birds  fly .The heavens where the sun and moon and stars are.
Gen 1:1  is speaking about the Heaven where Gods throne is .
Thus we have  three heavens. Which is confirmed  by Paul who went into the third heaven.

The result of this mistranslation by those who say they have a better understanding  is that we now have  modern day  easier top understand versions one of which is 'the student bible"(there are others)
That have gen 1:1  as ....."IN the beginning God created the SKY and the earth"!
Now if you  have heavenS in gen1:1 THAT would be a reasonable rendition! For reasons already stated.
But pray where is the throne of God and et all?

Are now to think in terms of Thy will be done on earth as it is in sky?
Or that which is of earth is earthy and that which is of  sky is ...skyee?
What utter and complete rot.

But some argue we have a better understanding! Do we?

How is then  that they who had so little at the reformation  did so much? and w ewith so much more than they (its implied)  can and do so little?and moreover  are in a reverse reformation?

Your presumptions then are simply that.
 I have only replied to you   not for your sake so much  but rather for anyw ho may be swayed by such folly as you have expressed. and do not let God lead them  in the paths of righteousness and in the knowledge or the truth and of Him who is the way the truth and the life.

In Christ

Gerald

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 13:29:02 »
Thank you for posting this.  Yes there are many people that solely rely on the KJV bible.  My opinion is the same as most on this thread.  I use many different versions to gain a deeper understanding of the word.  Whatever version you use depends on how you glean information, but when something is shoved down throats, I wouldn't think that is how Jesus would want us to use his word.  My thoughts.
Candy

Let me ask you a question. or indeed two.

faced with a number of versions  each with varying differeences and with som complete omissions and aditions.

By and upon what criteria  do you choose one over the other?

The other question is  ;Is God divided? or are there many Holy Spirits?

Pray tell me without jumping to conclusions  why do you think we need  many versions when there is only ONE God?

in Christ

gerald

Offline candy

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #20 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 14:05:21 »
I agree there is only one God and one Spirit.  Interestingly the body,(Christ's body) ,us, is made up of many differing parts each serving the head, Jesus Christ Himself.  I kind of view us like snowflakes, each having a different size, color, needs, etc.. yet still being a snowflake all the same.  Sometimes, I feel like delving into the KJV bible because I have the time to ponder and let the Holy Spirit open me up and other times I enjoy reading the NIV or NLT or NASB.  Like you said and it's true, we serve one amazing God who is able to put so many different parts and ways of being into his people and yet still be one.  Some people will understand Gods word easier through a more modern translation.  Others find the KJV more satisfying and a deeper understanding there.  It all depends on which is good for the person reading from it.  It's kind of like one size doesn't automatically fit all.
Candy

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #21 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 15:13:09 »
I agree there is only one God and one Spirit.  Interestingly the body,(Christ's body) ,us, is made up of many differing parts each serving the head, Jesus Christ Himself.  I kind of view us like snowflakes, each having a different size, color, needs, etc.. yet still being a snowflake all the same.  Sometimes, I feel like delving into the KJV bible because I have the time to ponder and let the Holy Spirit open me up and other times I enjoy reading the NIV or NLT or NASB.  Like you said and it's true, we serve one amazing God who is able to put so many different parts and ways of being into his people and yet still be one.  Some people will understand Gods word easier through a more modern translation.  Others find the KJV more satisfying and a deeper understanding there.  It all depends on which is good for the person reading from it.  It's kind of like one size doesn't automatically fit all.
Candy
Rather insightful.

Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 07:21:59 »
Pray tell me without jumping to conclusions  why do you think we need  many versions when there is only ONE God?
Because the bible was not writen in english and no single translation can effectively convey some of the subtleties in the original text.

Take Fox's translation of the 5 books of Moses. While not a literal translation, it carries the poetic nature and some of the play on word sounds of the Hebrew text.  Other translations can carry the meaning. 

Offline kjb1769

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #23 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 07:28:12 »

Because the bible was not writen in english and no single translation can effectively convey some of the subtleties in the original text.

Where is the "original" text your referring to?

Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #24 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 07:33:27 »
Where is the "original" text your referring to?
We do not have an "original" manuscript but we do have an original language: Hebrew for the OT and Koine Greek for the NT.

By "original" I refer to  language, not a physical piece of paper/velum/parchment/papyrus....

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #25 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 11:11:48 »
Thank you for posting this.  Yes there are many people that solely rely on the KJV bible.  My opinion is the same as most on this thread.  I use many different versions to gain a deeper understanding of the word.  Whatever version you use depends on how you glean information, but when something is shoved down throats, I wouldn't think that is how Jesus would want us to use his word.  My thoughts.
Candy

When I became a child of God a sear sister in the Lord  gave me an NIV which I used extensively .But as MY hunger for God grew so did my dissatisfaction with the NIV.I could not tell you why.
Save that as I read the KJV   my soul was satisfied.
In 30 years since I have never found the KJV wanting. It never contradicts itself in Christ.
and I have never had a question that sooner or later I have not found the answer in it.
I have withstood all the pressures and ignorance if Islamics who demand answers to questions  they think  have no answers. The KJV has always fully and comprehensively given them.
On the other hand I have observed proffessing Christians struggling  in giving a good account of the truth that Letha with in them. Who use other versions.

While  not proof in itself.
David refused armour and weapons untested.
The KJV is a tried and tested translation that God has used and blessed.
I have  also tried and tested it .
Every seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind.
I suppose then that in the end wisdom will be justified by her own children.

in Christ
Gerald

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #26 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 11:15:36 »
I agree there is only one God and one Spirit.  Interestingly the body,(Christ's body) ,us, is made up of many differing parts each serving the head, Jesus Christ Himself.  I kind of view us like snowflakes, each having a different size, color, needs, etc.. yet still being a snowflake all the same.  Sometimes, I feel like delving into the KJV bible because I have the time to ponder and let the Holy Spirit open me up and other times I enjoy reading the NIV or NLT or NASB.  Like you said and it's true, we serve one amazing God who is able to put so many different parts and ways of being into his people and yet still be one.  Some people will understand Gods word easier through a more modern translation.  Others find the KJV more satisfying and a deeper understanding there.  It all depends on which is good for the person reading from it.  It's kind of like one

 size doesn't automatically fit all.
Candy

This is disingenous . Man shall not live by Bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth form the mouth of God.
We are not a snow flakes  but rather a body or building or  a temple.
I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail aginst it.
One God. One Mind. One Mouth One Word.

ONE understanding One faith One baptism One >Lord ..
One size DOES fit all.

In Christ

Gerald

Offline candy

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #27 on: Wed Jun 20, 2012 - 12:25:00 »
Look at Romans 12:4-5.  My thoughts on these are that Christians should live and work together just as parts of the body function under the direction of the brain.  We each have different gifts and abilities.  That's how God made us.  What I was trying to say with the snowflake was that we are all human beings each being with different gifts.  All these gifts are for building up the church.  For some people the KJV bible is the only one to use as that's what they relate to the best, but for others myself included other versions suit me better.  Maybe you have a deeper understanding than I do.  Again, we all have different levels of understanding.  As long as we remain hospitable toward each other knowing we are all working towards strengthening Christ's church.  My thoughts.
Candy

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jun 21, 2012 - 08:21:24 »
Pray tell me without jumping to conclusions  why do you think we need  many versions when there is only ONE God?
Because the bible was not written in English and no single translation can effectively convey some of the subtleties in the original text.

Take Fox's translation of the 5 books of Moses. While not a literal translation, it carries the poetic nature and some of the play on word sounds of the Hebrew text.  Other translations can carry the meaning. 

I once talked with a Moslem for an hour or so and he came out with an argument similar to yours .he said  Only the Koran  in Arabic is the Word of (his)God.
I asked him then had he been lying to me the last hour?he said no.
I then asked him  if the book he had in his hand which on one side had the Koran in Arabic and on the other  was an English translation.
I asked him then was that lying then?
he said no.
I replied that he had been quoting to me in English the Koran was he lying? he said not.
I then asked him was God an Arab?
NO! was the answer.
I asked is he English? Thought the English might have used to think so.
he said no!
Japanese?Chinese whatever? he said not.
Which of course is true.
I then asked him who's languages these are then?
Man or Gods?
Man the reply.
I then said If these are all mans languages  then God must have (as it were) His own language then.
For clearly God is not by nature a man.
and if all these languages on earth are the natural language of all men according to their origins then God must then have his own.
I then asked him  The message of God has it ever changed?
No was his reply.
So I then said If the message of God has not changed  and God does not change .Then it is the accuracy of the translation  that is important.
I also pointed out  that it is impossible  for the message of God to be UNTRANSLATEABLE  into a mans language  seeing that God created all languages and man included.
Now it is true that  say the French  need more words to say the same thing  as the English. That's the nature of the French.
But do not dare say  that the message of God cannot be accurately translated so that all men may understand and believe.
For how then can man have faith in God unless he understand the Word of God?
Do not then say  that you need to understand Greek and Hebrew to truly understand it  or have the original texts to boot.
For Saul of tarsus had more of each than any alive today and he most definitely did not understand the scriptures.
Moreover the religious leaders of the day also did not understand the Scriptures although Hebrew was their mother tongue.
Jesus said ye boast  in the scriptures  but ye know not Him of whom the scriptures speak.
In comparison you have peter James and john ignorant and un learned men who understood more than they all and gave expression to their understanding  because "They had been with Jesus"
It is the serpent who was the most subtle of all the animals.
I would suggest God is NOT subtle at all!
"But rather he is light  and not even the SHADOW of turning.."

In Christ

Gerald

Offline gbzone

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jun 21, 2012 - 08:37:13 »
Look at Romans 12:4-5.  My thoughts on these are that Christians should live and work together just as parts of the body function under the direction of the brain.  We each have different gifts and abilities.  That's how God made us.  What I was trying to say with the snowflake was that we are all human beings each being with different gifts.  All these gifts are for building up the church.  For some people the KJV bible is the only one to use as that's what they relate to the best, but for others myself included other versions suit me better.  Maybe you have a deeper understanding than I do.  Again, we all have different levels of understanding.  As long as we remain hospitable toward each other knowing we are all working towards strengthening Christ's church.  My thoughts.
Candy

The gifts you mention are they not severally as the one Spirit gives them?
It is not a matter of personal preference.
it is a question of an accurate and reliable translation.
It is not even any perception of my understanding.
It is a question as Paul says of all in that ONE body thinking the same thing and being of the same mind.What Mind?
The mind of Christ .The same mind that was expressed by Him "who knoweth the mind of Christ" The Spirit of truth /God/Christ.
How can two walk together unless they agree?

I have shown that almost all modern translations have mistranslated Gen1:1  if on such a simple matter they have got it wrong how much more on others?
But let us take this one.
The start of all scripture!
if two people  start at the same place and seek the same goal  yet one is the tiniest but out from the other.
For a long while they will be walking  'together'  but as things go on they will slowly and imperceptibly at first start to diverge. That divergence will increase all the more . if you was heading for the moon (BRIDE)  then if your 1/4 inch out here you will miss the moon by how many miles there?
I do not believe nor can I Gods w ill is to have   a myriad of versions and the children of God effectively choosing that which is right in their own eyes.
In very truth it is quite extraordinary the invective AGAINST the KJV  and the casual acceptance  of versions that have been proved to contain so many errors omissions additions and contradictory translation within its own pages.
The OP  of this one is but one version of that invective.
As I said  those who resort to any ISM  arrive at such an ism by carnal thinking.

I use the KJV  because it is what is says on the cover. Holy Bible.

In the end as these things continue  the invective will grow . and the Bride will have to suffer without the camp even as Moses and her Lord did . For even as the Lord was despised and rejected  by His brethren  so too then will the Bride we despised and rejected  by hers.
If for no other reason being that where Her Lord is so shall she be.

in Christ

Gerald

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #30 on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 - 20:23:57 »
I'm a KJV only'er and proud of it.....  ::applause::
I just don't get it, all bibles contradict each other and you guys say they are all the word of God... Makes no sense.  ::doh::

What is the Lord going to do, preserve and keep forever, His Word... Or keep us safe?
Quote
Psalms 12:6-7 (KJV) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalms 12:6-7 (NIV) And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. 7 O LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever.

Is Jesus eternal or is he as the NIV says from ancient times?
Quote
Micah 5:2 (KJV) But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2 (NIV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Did Mary have children before she had Jesus? If you read the NIV, you don't know.
Quote
Matthew 1:25 (KJV) And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Matthew 1:25 (NIV) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

What is miraculous about a virgin getting pregnant.... the miracle is in the KJV only a VIRGIN was pregnant.
Quote
Mat 1:23 (KJV)  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:23 (KJV) “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel

Thomas Kelly guessed

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #31 on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 - 23:58:58 »
EDEN2004,

I'm a KJV only'er and proud of it.....  ::applause::
I just don't get it, all bibles contradict each other and you guys say they are all the word of God... Makes no sense.  ::doh::

What is the Lord going to do, preserve and keep forever, His Word... Or keep us safe?
Quote
Psalms 12:6-7 (KJV) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalms 12:6-7 (NIV) And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. 7 O LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever.

Is Jesus eternal or is he as the NIV says from ancient times?
Quote
Micah 5:2 (KJV) But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2 (NIV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Did Mary have children before she had Jesus? If you read the NIV, you don't know.
Quote
Matthew 1:25 (KJV) And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Matthew 1:25 (NIV) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

What is miraculous about a virgin getting pregnant.... the miracle is in the KJV only a VIRGIN was pregnant.
Quote
Mat 1:23 (KJV)  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:23 (KJV) “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel

Offline ccfromsc

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #32 on: Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 09:42:22 »
 ::preachit:: KJV!

Wow! It is about to get how and heavy. OK for those KJV Onliers that just patted themselves on the back.... Which KJV are you using?

Which KJV Bible was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English? The one in 1611 or one of the revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or the last one in 1850? Please specify which one.

What was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611? Please be specific in your answer.

If there was a perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God need to perfectly preserve a second one if the first one was perfectly preserved? Please give details and sources for these details.

If there was no perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God leave His people no perfectly preserved Word for 1611 years? Please give details and sources for these details.

Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one seventeenth-century English translation? Please give specific verses with proper exegesis and hermeneutics.

Now that I broke the "ice"......
Do you believe in "Unicorns?" Do you believe in "satyrs?" A "cockatrice?" Cause they are mentioned in the KJV!

Offline DaveW

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 10:24:06 »
Quote
Do you believe in "Unicorns?" Do you believe in "satyrs?" A "cockatrice?" Cause they are mentioned in the KJV!

And the KJV is the only translation I know that seems to have a problem with the Viola da Gamba family of string instruments.  (cousins of the violin family - six strings and frets)

It says to "fret not ..." and it also talks about " ... the noise of thy Viols ..." (what Gambas were called in England) in regards to curses.

Amos 5.23
Isa 14.11

Offline kjb1769

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Re: KJV Onlyism
« Reply #34 on: Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 16:53:24 »
What was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611? Please be specific in your answer.

Please expound on your implication of "God's perfectly preserved translation in English".

Thanks

 

     
anything