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Author Topic: Law and Grace  (Read 4347 times)

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daq

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Re: Law and Grace
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2012, 04:54:52 PM »
Ever wonder that an old wineskin looks much like a human heart? Wineskins were not replaced with "brand new" skins every time, (way too expensive) but rather they were refreshed and renewed. In order to renew a wineskin first it would be washed in running water, (River of Life) then it would be soaked in oil, (Holy Spirit).

Quote
Interesting. But, eventually those wineskins would be unusable, unacceptable and unredeemable containers for new wine. Correct? And at that point they would be officially "old", correct?

Is there any man unredeemable? Is the arm of YHWH too short?

There are indeed "vessels fit for destruction" but they are pictured as the herd of two thousand or so swine which rushed down the mountain side into the Lake when the legion was cast out of the Girgashite man of the Gergesenes. However, of any and all who come to Christ, in sincerity of heart and true repentance, there shall not be one taken from his hand. Those hearts which are renewed and refreshed by his grace will always fill themselves to the brim with his Doctrine and Word of Life and that we know shall never pass away. Therefore they also shall never die, though the flesh profits nothing, for the seed of the Word of the Sower is in them.

He that truly has the name of the Son, (New Testament-Covenant) truly also has the Name of the Father, (Old Testament-Covenant) and all these are a new creation, like the angels of heaven, neither male nor female, and again they cannot die.  ::smile::

My point is in relation to the conversation at hand about the old and new covenant. That being that the old is old, it is not a "like new refurbished" version. And that it is not possible to pour the new into the old as it ruins both.

What else could you have thought this was about? The testimony of Yeshua is the new-neos Spirit of Torah just as he is the new-neos Mediator of the Covenant. And his testimony is the new-neos Spirit of Torah because he interprets everything we need to know in the four Gospel accounts. Where do you think that Paul gets all of his interpretations of Torah? They are from the same source which is Christ Yeshua himself and his words, parables, and Doctrine. The new Spirit of Torah cannot be put into and old "wineskin" of a heart because it is the heart which will burst. Therefore one's heart must first be "renewed" (washed in Living Water and soaked in Oil of the Spirit) and this comes only by true repentance. If one has true repentance then he or she willingly takes upon himself, or herself, the yoke of Christ becoming subservient to his Doctrine and will, thus becoming a disciple of the Word. When a heart was renewed then is that vail removed in Christ and the new heart is capable of understanding his Doctrine and how it is that he interprets Torah: CORRECTING what the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes had corrupted for their own personal gain. It seems perhaps you have been sold somewhat of a "bill of goods" thinking that the Renewed-Kainos Covenant is completely contrary to the Old Covenant; yet nothing could be further from the truth, and we do not come to Christ on our own terms or on "trumped up terms" predicated by false teachings. Rather we all come to Christ on HIS TERMS and AT HIS FEET.

Is this not from one of your own threads?
You can lead a horse to water ...  ::smile::

I read the following and was struck dumb by it:

John 6:49-58 KJV
49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


Then one day at a later time I read the following passage and the Spirit of Truth told me that this was part of the answer:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 KJV
7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


And the Spirit of Truth said to me: "KEEP EATING" ~
So I did, and later again I came upon the following:

Exodus 12:5-11 KJV
5. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6. And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9. Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10. And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.


And I realized: I did in fact cause his death by my own transgressions.
SO I KEEP EATING ONLY WHAT IS HOLY AND FROM HIM!
BECAUSE HE IS IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN HIM!

Mark 12:29-30 KJV
29. And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV
4. Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord:
5. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.


Here again are the two side posts, (shoulders, arms, hands-deeds) and the upper post, (forehead) of the doorframes of the houses of the saints. The Word of YHWH is Yeshua, is the Manna from Heaven, is the Passover Lamb; and the people of YHWH are the house. The Gracious Love is like the holy freewill offering of the Passover Lamb who gave himself willingly: consume all of it and leave nothing til the morning; both the bitter with the sweet.  ::smile::

It is all Spirit, every word ~

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. (Revelation 21)



Here's what I think daq, it is impossible to communicate effective without a shared language, and since I am not a Hebrew, if you want to communicate with me you will have to speak english.

Where is the Hebrew apart from mindset? ("neos" is Greek).  ::crackup::
Can a little more of "Ye Olde King James English" suffice?  ::shrug::

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: ("the flesh" concerning the glory shining in the skin of the flesh of the face of Moses)
14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16. Nevertheless when it (the heart) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

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Re: Law and Grace
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2012, 04:54:52 PM »

Offline ChristNU

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Re: Law and Grace
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2012, 06:20:04 PM »
Ever wonder that an old wineskin looks much like a human heart? Wineskins were not replaced with "brand new" skins every time, (way too expensive) but rather they were refreshed and renewed. In order to renew a wineskin first it would be washed in running water, (River of Life) then it would be soaked in oil, (Holy Spirit).

Quote
Interesting. But, eventually those wineskins would be unusable, unacceptable and unredeemable containers for new wine. Correct? And at that point they would be officially "old", correct?

Is there any man unredeemable? Is the arm of YHWH too short?

There are indeed "vessels fit for destruction" but they are pictured as the herd of two thousand or so swine which rushed down the mountain side into the Lake when the legion was cast out of the Girgashite man of the Gergesenes. However, of any and all who come to Christ, in sincerity of heart and true repentance, there shall not be one taken from his hand. Those hearts which are renewed and refreshed by his grace will always fill themselves to the brim with his Doctrine and Word of Life and that we know shall never pass away. Therefore they also shall never die, though the flesh profits nothing, for the seed of the Word of the Sower is in them.

He that truly has the name of the Son, (New Testament-Covenant) truly also has the Name of the Father, (Old Testament-Covenant) and all these are a new creation, like the angels of heaven, neither male nor female, and again they cannot die.  ::smile::

My point is in relation to the conversation at hand about the old and new covenant. That being that the old is old, it is not a "like new refurbished" version. And that it is not possible to pour the new into the old as it ruins both.

What else could you have thought this was about? The testimony of Yeshua is the new-neos Spirit of Torah just as he is the new-neos Mediator of the Covenant. And his testimony is the new-neos Spirit of Torah because he interprets everything we need to know in the four Gospel accounts. Where do you think that Paul gets all of his interpretations of Torah? They are from the same source which is Christ Yeshua himself and his words, parables, and Doctrine. The new Spirit of Torah cannot be put into and old "wineskin" of a heart because it is the heart which will burst. Therefore one's heart must first be "renewed" (washed in Living Water and soaked in Oil of the Spirit) and this comes only by true repentance. If one has true repentance then he or she willingly takes upon himself, or herself, the yoke of Christ becoming subservient to his Doctrine and will, thus becoming a disciple of the Word. When a heart was renewed then is that vail removed in Christ and the new heart is capable of understanding his Doctrine and how it is that he interprets Torah: CORRECTING what the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes had corrupted for their own personal gain. It seems perhaps you have been sold somewhat of a "bill of goods" thinking that the Renewed-Kainos Covenant is completely contrary to the Old Covenant; yet nothing could be further from the truth, and we do not come to Christ on our own terms or on "trumped up terms" predicated by false teachings. Rather we all come to Christ on HIS TERMS and AT HIS FEET.

Is this not from one of your own threads?
You can lead a horse to water ...  ::smile::

I read the following and was struck dumb by it:

John 6:49-58 KJV
49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


Then one day at a later time I read the following passage and the Spirit of Truth told me that this was part of the answer:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 KJV
7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


And the Spirit of Truth said to me: "KEEP EATING" ~
So I did, and later again I came upon the following:

Exodus 12:5-11 KJV
5. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6. And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9. Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10. And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.


And I realized: I did in fact cause his death by my own transgressions.
SO I KEEP EATING ONLY WHAT IS HOLY AND FROM HIM!
BECAUSE HE IS IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN HIM!

Mark 12:29-30 KJV
29. And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 KJV
4. Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord:
5. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.


Here again are the two side posts, (shoulders, arms, hands-deeds) and the upper post, (forehead) of the doorframes of the houses of the saints. The Word of YHWH is Yeshua, is the Manna from Heaven, is the Passover Lamb; and the people of YHWH are the house. The Gracious Love is like the holy freewill offering of the Passover Lamb who gave himself willingly: consume all of it and leave nothing til the morning; both the bitter with the sweet.  ::smile::

It is all Spirit, every word ~

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. (Revelation 21)



Here's what I think daq, it is impossible to communicate effective without a shared language, and since I am not a Hebrew, if you want to communicate with me you will have to speak english.

Where is the Hebrew apart from mindset? ("neos" is Greek).  ::crackup::
Can a little more of "Ye Olde King James English" suffice?  ::shrug::

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: ("the flesh" concerning the glory shining in the skin of the flesh of the face of Moses)
14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16. Nevertheless when it (the heart) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


Daq, your posts are pretty much all greek to me, lol. Apparantly the dots all connect for you, but for me they are just random points of discontinuity.  I'm just saying'  ::smile:: . Peace.

"How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?" (Gal. 3:3)

"He has enabled us to be ministers of His new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:6)

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Re: Law and Grace
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2012, 06:20:04 PM »