Author Topic: Legalism  (Read 5041 times)

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Offline Barb1957

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« on: Tue Jun 04, 2002 - 22:31:00 »
"Henry" needs to know that nothing he can do will make God love or accept him any more than He already does.
"For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."
"When we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
We aren't good to gain favor with God. God makes a person righteous (right with Him) when that person accepts what Jesus did and becomes a child of God.  Obedience should be done out of love and gratitude toward this awesome God, not to gain brownie points with Him.

Others here who are more grounded in biblical history and the original languages can certainly say more about the length of hair and such issues, but my understanding is that that stuff was cultural for the times.

- Barb

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« on: Tue Jun 04, 2002 - 22:31:00 »

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« Reply #1 on: Wed Jun 05, 2002 - 16:45:53 »
Those regulations have nothing to do with salvation. Or, believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, in order to gain salvation, did not change as Paul revealed rules for effective discipleship. Paul gave many instructions in order for the gospel of Christ to be spread. However, to say that these teachings changed God's plan for salvation is to deny Jesus dying on the cross. Salvation and discipleship are not the same.

Doyle

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #2 on: Thu Jun 06, 2002 - 06:58:30 »
tobysdad, this was posted in the Marriage section, but it seems to apply here as well. This instance may be a case of someone creating a lot of rules in order to maintain control of his wife. This reflects insecurity and lack of manliness on the part of the rule-enforcer:

Secret Rules in the Family
Some rules are OK and serve useful purposes. Safety rules, social rules (Thou shalt not put thy wife down in company!), and doing particular jobs such as washing dishes, dusting, etc. are useful. But, many couples have implicit or secret rules they inherited or brought with them into the relationships. These unexpressed rules can cause dismay and conflict.
Some rules may seem silly, but rules, remember, are sacred to the one who makes them. Even if the actual loss is trivial the fact that a rule was violated often leads to intense feelings. In a distressed marriage, each partner thinks he or she has made the most adjustments, compromises, etc. Breaking a rule is seen as evidence the partner is not trying.
Many couples believe that problems should not occur in marriages at all, and when they do they think “If he only loved me enough, we would not quarrel.

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« Reply #2 on: Thu Jun 06, 2002 - 06:58:30 »

Offline tobysdad

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« Reply #3 on: Fri Jun 07, 2002 - 07:39:02 »
I am just excited about this website. I might even tell a couple few people about it.  It seems like from what I have read here there are allot of people who know what they are talking about and seem to care about the responses they give.  


   Well anyway I must confess that most of the questions I asked concerning Liberalism I all ready feel pretty strongly about one way or the other.  My goal in asking the questions was to show my friend henry trying to work his way to heaven and I am afraid that if he is trying to get there on his own accord he may fall short.  Someone  I think it was Doyle who said It has nothing to do with salvation but I think it has everything to do with salvation.  Even If he has asked the Lord into his heart and confessed with mouth that Jesus is Lord I am afraid that you have to move past that at sometime in your walk with Christ and  if henry thinks that because he has done all these wonderful things that are in scripture will I fear has become the basis for which he feels secure in himself as a Christian because he has kept this code of conduct that wasn’t meant for him to fallow perfectly anyway.  Kinda sounds Like Matthew chapter 7 I think it is where the Christ states many will come to me on that day saying lord,  have I not done this wonderful thing in your name or lord what about this wonderful thing I did in your name.  Then I will profess onto them I never new them.  Depart from me….   That was obviously my own translation but the point I am trying to make is henry is replacing knowing God for trying to fallow a bunch of guidelines.   If there is anyone here that thinks that they might be in danger of or has been accused of being legalistic might try something.  Go back and read through the four gospels and take your time and focus on Jesus and his dealings with the pharisees.    The pharesees were so concerned with following every letter of the law that they missed Jesus.  Pay attention to how concerned with following the sabath they were and how not concerned with the sabath and the rules that go along it Jesus was.  The pharrasees had to tithe and had to fast and had do everything in the open so man could see but God know there hearts and he know my heart.  I want henry to know that he is saved without having to full fill the law that Christ allready did for him. Amen


In him,

Lathyn

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« Reply #3 on: Fri Jun 07, 2002 - 07:39:02 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline janine

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« Reply #4 on: Tue Jun 11, 2002 - 17:43:27 »
Trying to get folks to understand that is a long, dry trip, L.C.

How can we study 1st John, especially the first part, and not be both humbled and exalted... Of course we need to be repentant about sin and willing to change, but that's more an exercise in conforming to the image of the son than it is an exercise in trying to get forgiven...

If we're not already functioning as a child of the Father, covered in the blood that paid out our sin-debt, sealed by the Holy Ghost, no amount of mechanical repenting does any good.

If we are already in that engrafted relationship, if we've already walked through the Door into the Kingdom, then we are continuously being made clean, and the only time we're no longer clean is when we're no longer His, having deliberately thrown God's gift of salvation back in His face & having left the Light.

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« Reply #4 on: Tue Jun 11, 2002 - 17:43:27 »



Offline tobysdad

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« Reply #5 on: Tue Jun 04, 2002 - 20:58:37 »
This is my first ever topic that I have posted here and apologise for the lack of format or organization.  I feal like I have know idea what I am doing so any help or helpfull hints would be great.  

  I have been talking with a friend I will call henry and would like help with things to say to him that hasn't been said already.  He is very much caught in what I feal is a religious way of doing things to gain Gods approval.  For esample he will not let his wife have short hair, where ear rings, and a whole list of other things.

first can anyone tell me what pauls purpose was for setting up all these regulations and should we all be following all these regulations that are in the New testiment.

2nd are people that are caught up in fallowing these regulatons saved.  Asuming they know the salvation plan and fallow it.

also any other helpful advice on the topic would be great.

Thank you,

lathyn
tobysparents@hotmail.com

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« Reply #5 on: Tue Jun 04, 2002 - 20:58:37 »

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« Reply #6 on: Wed Jun 05, 2002 - 05:39:19 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (tobysdad @ June 04 2002,1:58)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]This is my first ever topic that I have posted here and apologise for the lack of format or organization.  I feal like I have know idea what I am doing so any help or helpfull hints would be great.  

  I have been talking with a friend I will call henry and would like help with things to say to him that hasn't been said already.  He is very much caught in what I feal is a religious way of doing things to gain Gods approval.  For esample he will not let his wife have short hair, where ear rings, and a whole list of other things.

first can anyone tell me what pauls purpose was for setting up all these regulations and should we all be following all these regulations that are in the New testiment.

2nd are people that are caught up in fallowing these regulatons saved.  Asuming they know the salvation plan and fallow it.

also any other helpful advice on the topic would be great.

Thank you,

lathyn
tobysparents@hotmail.com[/quote]
tobysdad,

Is your friend a member of the "one cup" group of Church of Christ folks?  If he is I may be able to help you out a little bit.  Let me know the answer to my question first though.

Offline janine

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« Reply #7 on: Wed Jun 05, 2002 - 20:33:47 »
It's interesting that your friend "won't let his wife" do this, that or the other.  I'd like to hear about the restrictions your friend puts on himself in the name of righteousness.

Trust me, there are things I don't wear, places I don't go, etc., because my husband won't have it, but he's not 'stopping' me or 'letting' me... there are types of people it is best I don't resemble nor 'hang with' (pick a group... streetcorner hookers-for-crack?  robe-clad Klansmen?)

Outsiders often think I'm living under my husband's thumb... well, maybe so, but he's under mine as well, and we're both in the hand of God.

Are you sure your friend is being legalistic?  I've had people call me that when I've lived out some divine guidance from Scripture... some folks just can't stand to be told what to do, even if it's God doing the telling, so they brand anyone with a desire to live holy a 'legalist'.

So, re-evaluate yourself & make sure you're not doing that; then, post again with an example or two of what your friend is doing, and include the scriptures he's basing it all upon.  It'll be easier to comment that way.

Has he given you chapter & verse about why he restricts things that look to you like opinion or freedoms?  Ask him, then tell us what he says! :)

Offline seekr

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« Reply #8 on: Thu Jun 06, 2002 - 17:10:45 »
What Bob says is really good, and also to add--to be the leader in a home situation calls for the same service Jesus portrayed and gave an example of washing the disciples feet. If a husband wants to be a leader in his home he should serve. So much of the kingdom is upside down from how the world views it.

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« Reply #8 on: Thu Jun 06, 2002 - 17:10:45 »

Offline seekr

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« Reply #9 on: Fri Jun 07, 2002 - 15:43:42 »
What you're preaching there is grace...not by works...The red tape of religiosity makes us religious, not necessarily saved.

seekr

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« Reply #10 on: Fri Jun 07, 2002 - 16:08:06 »
Interesting quote from an anonymous source:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The quest for perfect obedience per se is really a symptom of estrangement and would not be a preoccupation if a right relationship existed. Legalists are the "sinners who do not sin." Their "perfection" is provoking, not pleasing to God and their sins are always before His face. Those who have a right relationship with God, however, have their sins forgiven in advance. [/quote]

 

     
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