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Author Topic: Living by the Bible  (Read 25253 times)
Bonnie
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« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2008, 09:39:05 AM »

The saints of God have no need of the bible...

Thats not what Paul said to Timothy.

2Ti 3:15-17 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Amen!
(I was typing while you replied or I would have left part of my post off.)
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Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."
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« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2008, 09:39:05 AM »

 
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Javelin
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« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2008, 02:52:50 PM »

Living by the Bible

By Robert Brinsmead

Paul's reply is summarized in Galatians 5:18: "If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law ( Torah- Jewish scripture)." In 2nd Corinthians 3:6 Paul says, "The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."  In Romans 7 the apostle also uses another synonym for being under the law - being controlled by the "letter" The Greek word for the letter is gramma and the emphasis is on the written textually of the Torah.

The book of Romans is the most complete exposition given anywhere of the Christian gospel and its ramifications for life.  But there is an astonishing aspect to this book.  Nowhere does Paul tell us how to study the Bible and how urgent it is to live by the Bible.  In fact, such instruction is nowhere to be found in the great body of Pauline literature.  Paul did not live by the written letter of the law (scripture). 

His religion was not textually dominated and controlled. In his attacks in Galatians and Corinthians he makes it clear that this manner of using the Bible kills rather than brings life.  It imprisons rather than frees.  Living by the letter incites one to do evil and stimulates a person to do exactly what it forbids (Romans 7) Used in this way, the law, scripture - stirs up all kinds of evil desires. Indeed Paul uses the analogy of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.  "Sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death" (Romans 7:11).  Such use of the Bible really makes people hypocrites.


Just found this forum. This is my first post. I agree, at least in principle, with your thoughts Robert. I had a 20+ year relationship with the Churches of Christ and their restoration beliefs & text focused traditions. I rejected that thinking and association a few years ago, without regret I might add.

I do not believe your thoughts, in any way, are a repudiation of scripture. I view your thoughts in the context of emphasis. I view our present day English translated bibles in the context of principles & concepts rather than commands and laws.

It is my personal belief, after 40+ years of biblical study, that our present day bibles contain both inerrancy and inspiration but are not fully inerrant or inspired, unless of course biblical translators are inspired, but I do not believe they are. In other words, our present day bibles, NT specific, provide an excellent guideline for walking by faith, but it was not intended to be used as a book of laws, rules, and commands requiring meticulous obedience.  I assume my view would be in the minority. I've posted on an ex-Church of Christ board for a few years now, so I used to having my views criticized by the traditional sola scriptura crowd.   Watching the show and eating popcorn




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« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2008, 02:52:50 PM »

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kensington
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« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2008, 03:53:29 PM »

Bonnie... I saw you asked Robert if he ever wondered why no one agreed with him....

I can answer that.  NO... He does not.

He has stated before He is the ONLY one who has truth. He is the ONLY one who was sent to straighten us all out.

HTH.
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He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called, "The Word Of GOD".  {Revelation 19:13}
Bonnie
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« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2008, 04:18:10 PM »

Bonnie... I saw you asked Robert if he ever wondered why no one agreed with him....

I can answer that.  NO... He does not.

He has stated before He is the ONLY one who has truth. He is the ONLY one who was sent to straighten us all out.

HTH.

LOL  I cannot understand how in the world he comes up with some of that stuff.
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« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2008, 05:58:35 PM »

This is really sad.  Some are so desperate to live by written instructions that they have taken Paul's instructions to believers and have made them laws and rules to live by.  Paul never intended for his instructions to become law.  They were simple instructions to new believers.  Another misuse of the Bible.

If you are living by written instructions you are living by the law.  Mature Christians do not need to be told how they should live.  We are no longer under the school master.

Hebrews 8:10  "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts: and I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people.
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Jimmy
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« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2008, 07:03:53 PM »

This is really sad.  Some are so desperate to live by written instructions that they have taken Paul's instructions to believers and have made them laws and rules to live by.  Paul never intended for his instructions to become law.  They were simple instructions to new believers.  Another misuse of the Bible.

If you are living by written instructions you are living by the law.  Mature Christians do not need to be told how they should live.  We are no longer under the school master.

Hebrews 8:10  "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts: and I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people.


Robert, most of your ideas are so counter to much of the Bible, it is amazing that you would really think they could really be God's message.  Do you really believe that God has written those laws into your mind and on your heart through some providential procedure?  If so, how come you seem to be the only one that He did that for?  Or do you think He wrote those laws differently for you than for all others?

Did it ever occur to you that the way that God does that is by the Holy Spirit and His inspired word through the apostles and the other Biblical authors?
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« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2008, 07:03:53 PM »

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Robert Pate
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« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2008, 08:17:01 PM »

Jimmy

Where do you think the apostles got there information from?  Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.  Jesus never wrote anything down.  They were Spirit led and Spirit taught. 

Paul clearly tells us not to live by the letter of the law but to live by the Spirit.  If you want to obey a law or rule obey that one.

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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2008, 08:23:07 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

So why did Paul?

2Ti 3:15 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Besides didn't Jesus teach from the Scriptures? (cf. Luk 24:27)
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

So why did Paul?

2Ti 3:15 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Besides didn't Jesus teach from the Scriptures? (cf. Luk 24:27)

I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.  For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.  The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.  So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM »

 
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James Rondon
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2008, 09:08:02 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

So why did Paul?

2Ti 3:15 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Besides didn't Jesus teach from the Scriptures? (cf. Luk 24:27)

I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.

Your problem is indicative of a greater problem. See the next two verses, 2nd Timothy 3:16-17 (especially verse 16).

For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.

See 2nd Peter 3:16.

The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.

See 2nd Peter 3:16.

So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

What would be the problem with that? See the next two verses, 2nd Timothy 3:16-17.

John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."

Interesting. Jesus told them to "Search the Scriptures"...

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2008, 09:08:02 PM »

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Robert Pate
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« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2008, 09:22:25 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

So why did Paul?

2Ti 3:15 "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

Besides didn't Jesus teach from the Scriptures? (cf. Luk 24:27)

I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.

Your problem is indicative of a greater problem. See the next two verses, 2nd Timothy 3:16-17 (especially verse 16).

For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.

See 2nd Peter 3:16.

The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.

See 2nd Peter 3:16.

So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

What would be the problem with that? See the next two verses, 2nd Timothy 3:16-17.

John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."

Interesting. Jesus told them to "Search the Scriptures"...

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

When Jesus referred the apostles to the Old Testament it was in reference to him.

Luke 24:27 "he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

Paul was apparently directing Timothy to Old Testament scripture concerning Christ.  The New Testament had not been written yet.
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James Rondon
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« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2008, 09:28:35 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

When Jesus referred the apostles to the Old Testament it was in reference to him.

Thus, you admit that your statement was false... "Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament."

Thanks for the admission.

Paul was apparently directing Timothy to Old Testament scripture concerning Christ.  The New Testament had not been written yet.

Um... In order to know what Paul was directing him to do, Timothy would have to have read this letter: 1st Timothy.

In order to read it, it would have to have been written already.
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2008, 09:44:00 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

When Jesus referred the apostles to the Old Testament it was in reference to him.

Thus, you admit that your statement was false... "Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament."

Thanks for the admission.

Paul was apparently directing Timothy to Old Testament scripture concerning Christ.  The New Testament had not been written yet.

Um... In order to know what Paul was directing him to do, Timothy would have to have read this letter: 1st Timothy.

In order to read it, it would have to have been written already.

James Rondon

Jesus never instructed his disciples to live according to Old Testament scripture.  This was what I meant.  But you are going to nit pick everything I say. 

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« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2008, 09:44:00 PM »

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James Rondon
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« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2008, 10:12:20 PM »

Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.

When Jesus referred the apostles to the Old Testament it was in reference to him.

Thus, you admit that your statement was false... "Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament."

Thanks for the admission.

Paul was apparently directing Timothy to Old Testament scripture concerning Christ.  The New Testament had not been written yet.

Um... In order to know what Paul was directing him to do, Timothy would have to have read this letter: 1st Timothy.

In order to read it, it would have to have been written already.

James Rondon

Jesus never instructed his disciples to live according to Old Testament scripture.  This was what I meant.

Are you sure that's what you meant? Here is the rest of what you said:

Where do you think the apostles got there information from?  Jesus never instructed them to study the Old Testament.  Jesus never wrote anything down.  They were Spirit led and Spirit taught.

As far as this statement is concerned:

But you are going to nit pick everything I say.

I commend to you the words of James: "MY brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment."
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2008, 10:42:02 PM »

I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.

I suspect your problem with this and other passages is they expose the error of your doctrines.

For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.

Peter refers to them among the Scriptures. (cf. 2Pe 3:16)

The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.  So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

I think the answer to that is obvious, despite the even more obvious error of your earlier comments.

John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."

The next verse makes all the difference:

Jhn 5:40 "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

We are not talking about people who submit their lives to God by accepting his Son. We are talking about people who willfully reject the Son of God despite the witness of Scripture. But I'm sure you enjoy amputating that verse to condemn fundamentalist and deride those who believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.

But seriously, it isn't hard to see the error in your posts. With any measure of discernment it can be spotted a mile away.
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