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Author Topic: Living by the Bible  (Read 25270 times)
Serenity432001
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« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2008, 06:11:37 AM »
Quote from: Javelin on May 01, 2008, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Robert Pate on April 29, 2008, 09:39:37 AM
Living by the Bible

By Robert Brinsmead

Paul's reply is summarized in Galatians 5:18: "If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law ( Torah- Jewish scripture)." In 2nd Corinthians 3:6 Paul says, "The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."  In Romans 7 the apostle also uses another synonym for being under the law - being controlled by the "letter" The Greek word for the letter is gramma and the emphasis is on the written textually of the Torah.

The book of Romans is the most complete exposition given anywhere of the Christian gospel and its ramifications for life.  But there is an astonishing aspect to this book.  Nowhere does Paul tell us how to study the Bible and how urgent it is to live by the Bible.  In fact, such instruction is nowhere to be found in the great body of Pauline literature.  Paul did not live by the written letter of the law (scripture). 

His religion was not textually dominated and controlled. In his attacks in Galatians and Corinthians he makes it clear that this manner of using the Bible kills rather than brings life.  It imprisons rather than frees.  Living by the letter incites one to do evil and stimulates a person to do exactly what it forbids (Romans 7) Used in this way, the law, scripture - stirs up all kinds of evil desires. Indeed Paul uses the analogy of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.  "Sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death" (Romans 7:11).  Such use of the Bible really makes people hypocrites.


Just found this forum. This is my first post. I agree, at least in principle, with your thoughts Robert. I had a 20+ year relationship with the Churches of Christ and their restoration beliefs & text focused traditions. I rejected that thinking and association a few years ago, without regret I might add.

I do not believe your thoughts, in any way, are a repudiation of scripture. I view your thoughts in the context of emphasis. I view our present day English translated bibles in the context of principles & concepts rather than commands and laws.

It is my personal belief, after 40+ years of biblical study, that our present day bibles contain both inerrancy and inspiration but are not fully inerrant or inspired, unless of course biblical translators are inspired, but I do not believe they are. In other words, our present day bibles, NT specific, provide an excellent guideline for walking by faith, but it was not intended to be used as a book of laws, rules, and commands requiring meticulous obedience.  I assume my view would be in the minority. I've posted on an ex-Church of Christ board for a few years now, so I used to having my views criticized by the traditional sola scriptura crowd.   Watching the show and eating popcorn






Interesting post.  Thanks for sharing and welcome to GCM
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« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2008, 06:11:37 AM »
 
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2008, 01:15:53 PM »
Quote from: Charles Sloan on May 01, 2008, 10:42:02 PM
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.

I suspect your problem with this and other passages is they expose the error of your doctrines.

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.

Peter refers to them among the Scriptures. (cf. 2Pe 3:16)

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.  So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

I think the answer to that is obvious, despite the even more obvious error of your earlier comments.

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."

The next verse makes all the difference:

Jhn 5:40 "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

We are not talking about people who submit their lives to God by accepting his Son. We are talking about people who willfully reject the Son of God despite the witness of Scripture. But I'm sure you enjoy amputating that verse to condemn fundamentalist and deride those who believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.

But seriously, it isn't hard to see the error in your posts. With any measure of discernment it can be spotted a mile away.

James Rondon
Charles Sloan

Galatians 3:10  "For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that does not do everything that is written in the book of the law to do them."

Are you gentlemen doing all that is written in the Bible or do you just kind of pick and choose. If you are not obeying all of the scripture then you are hypocrites.

Galatians 3:11  "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for the just shall live by faith." 
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« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2008, 01:15:53 PM »
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da525382
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« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2008, 11:01:43 AM »
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 02, 2008, 01:15:53 PM
Quote from: Charles Sloan on May 01, 2008, 10:42:02 PM
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
I have always had a problem with 2nd Timothy 3:15.

I suspect your problem with this and other passages is they expose the error of your doctrines.

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
For one thing Paul's letters were never considered to be scripture they were letters.

Peter refers to them among the Scriptures. (cf. 2Pe 3:16)

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
The only thing that was scripture was the Old Testament.  So was Paul directing Timothy to the Old Testament?

I think the answer to that is obvious, despite the even more obvious error of your earlier comments.

Quote from: Robert Pate on May 01, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
John 5;39 Jesus said to the Pharisees.  "Search the scriptures: for in them you think that you have eternal life: and they are which testify of me."

The next verse makes all the difference:

Jhn 5:40 "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

We are not talking about people who submit their lives to God by accepting his Son. We are talking about people who willfully reject the Son of God despite the witness of Scripture. But I'm sure you enjoy amputating that verse to condemn fundamentalist and deride those who believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.

But seriously, it isn't hard to see the error in your posts. With any measure of discernment it can be spotted a mile away.

James Rondon
Charles Sloan

Galatians 3:10  "For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that does not do everything that is written in the book of the law to do them."

Are you gentlemen doing all that is written in the Bible or do you just kind of pick and choose. If you are not obeying all of the scripture then you are hypocrites.

Galatians 3:11  "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for the just shall live by faith." 

I'm sorry, but the stinging inference here is that Robert has deemed Charles and James to be hypocrites.  Is that not so encroaching on the rules here that it could not be considered a basis for dismissal?  I, personally, am tired of it.  It is Robert's modus operandus, in my opinion.  Perhaps others disagree with me.  It is tiresome.  It is endless.
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2008, 01:38:16 PM »
da525382

Others do disagree with you.  If you are offended by what I say you should try to figure out why you find my post offensive.  Most of my posts are about the gospel and what the gospel calls into question.  Perhaps my post calls your religion into question.
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da525382
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« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2008, 04:44:49 PM »
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 03, 2008, 01:38:16 PM
da525382

Others do disagree with you.  If you are offended by what I say you should try to figure out why you find my post offensive.  Most of my posts are about the gospel and what the gospel calls into question.  Perhaps my post calls your religion into question.

Quote
Others do disagree with you.

Okay, Robert, I'll take the bait....tell me specifically who are the ones here that disagree with me.  I do not feel Charles and James are hypocrites.  So who else besides yourself think they are?

Quote
If you are offended by what I say you should try to figure out why you find my post offensive.

I am not personally offended by it, I am sickened by it, and I am tired of watching you offend others.

Quote
Most of my posts are about the gospel and what the gospel calls into question.

Baloney.

Quote
Perhaps my post calls your religion into question.

No it doesn't call it into question, it condemns belief outright in the name of religion.  Just like your posts do to everyone else here.
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2008, 05:20:22 PM »
da525382

Why don't you go take a nap.  Maybe you will feel better when you wake up.
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« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2008, 05:20:22 PM »
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da525382
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« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2008, 07:06:54 PM »
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 03, 2008, 05:20:22 PM
da525382

Why don't you go take a nap.  Maybe you will feel better when you wake up.

Why don't you respond to just one question the posters ask of you here, just one?
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2008, 09:01:38 PM »
da525382

Every question that you could ever ask has been answered by the person of Jesus Christ.
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da525382
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« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2008, 10:12:31 PM »
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 03, 2008, 09:01:38 PM
da525382

Every question that you could ever ask has been answered by the person of Jesus Christ.

I know that.  I'm simply interested in your responses to questions directly posed to you, and posed back to you in response to your own questions to us, which I guess you presume have not already been answered by the person of Jesus Christ.
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« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2008, 10:12:31 PM »
 
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2008, 02:18:20 PM »
I was meditating this morning on how important it is that the life of Christ be part of the believers doctrine.  Without his life you really don't have a gospel.  Some will say all we need for our salvation is the death of Christ and not his life.  There is no hope in a dead Christ.  It is the life of Christ that fulfilled the law for us.  God accepts that wonderful pure sinless life in our name and on our behalf.  How wonderful that life is our life.  Romans 5:17 says, "They which receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ."  How foolish it is to try to become righteous by trying to obey the Bible.  All of our righteousness is filthy rags and not acceptable.  But God has provided a righteousness for us that is without spot or blemish.  The righteousness of Christ is our righteousness.  We don't have any of our own.  The life of Christ is the only life that God accepts.  This is why Paul said, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is by faith in Jesus Christ."  When one accepts Christ as their savior God places them in Christ and seals them with the Holy Spirit.  At that moment all that Christ is and all that he has done becomes theirs.  What a wonderful gift from God.  In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified, and redeemed 1st Corinthians 1:30.  This is God's great free gift.  What more could we want?
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« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2008, 02:18:20 PM »
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da525382
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« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2008, 02:49:31 PM »
Quotes following are Robert's:

Quote
How foolish it is to try to become righteous by trying to obey the Bible.

How foolish it is to go around assuming that anyone here advocates becoming righteous by trying to "obey the Bible".  That term is yours alone, it is a hammer you use against a strawman you in you delusional reality construct and regurgitate here ad nauseum.

Quote
What more could we want?

Well, I'll tell you what more we could want.....something everyone here but you wants, and that is growth in Him, coming to maturity in Him, to know Him better, to know Him more, to know Him richly.....part of which is reading His own written revelation of Himself to us, that's what.
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2008, 07:32:35 PM »
Quote from: da525382 on May 04, 2008, 02:49:31 PM
Quotes following are Robert's:

Quote
How foolish it is to try to become righteous by trying to obey the Bible.

How foolish it is to go around assuming that anyone here advocates becoming righteous by trying to "obey the Bible".  That term is yours alone, it is a hammer you use against a strawman you in you delusional reality construct and regurgitate here ad nauseum.

Quote
What more could we want?

Well, I'll tell you what more we could want.....something everyone here but you wants, and that is growth in Him, coming to maturity in Him, to know Him better, to know Him more, to know Him richly.....part of which is reading His own written revelation of Himself to us, that's what.

da525382

If you don't like what I write why do you keep reading it?  Has some one appointed you as the police man of the Forum.  I see a lot of post that I don't agree with but I don't bother to take line by line of what they are saying and try to refute them.  You have a very hostile unchristian Spirit.  Are you under conviction?  Do you want to harm me? 

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da525382
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« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2008, 07:49:14 PM »
Quotes following are from Robert:

Quote
If you don't like what I write why do you keep reading it?

That probably is the most likely reason I read your posts, they are so indefensible and you parade them through here like a Hun, I am not persuaded to simply standby and watch you trample over any and all here, the "hypocrits" as you say, in the name of God.

Quote
Has some one appointed you as the police man of the Forum

No.

Quote
I see a lot of post that I don't agree with but I don't bother to take line by line of what they are saying and try to refute them.

Well, goody for you.

Quote
You have a very hostile unchristian Spirit.

Oh, please.  And you?

Quote
Are you under conviction?

No, I am under six feet.  I am also under 60.

Quote
Do you want to harm me?

Is that all you can say, express your paranoia instead of responding to what is addressed to you?  I do wish to block your theology when you just spread it recklessly here unobstructed.  As long as I am here, that will be the norm, if you can't handle it, then whine to the administrators here, Robert.  If they ask me to back off, I'll gladly comply.
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« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2008, 07:49:14 PM »
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Robert Pate
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« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2008, 08:39:11 PM »
da525382

No, please keep up the harassment.

Jesus said, "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil about you for my sake."
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Bonnie
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« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2008, 08:44:46 PM »
Quote from: Robert Pate on May 04, 2008, 08:39:11 PM
da525382

No, please keep up the harassment.

Jesus said, "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil about you for my sake."

 No worries Rolling on floor laughing Rolling on floor laughing
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Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."
Living by the Bible - Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Go Up Print 
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