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Offline yogi bear

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Love not the world
« on: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 07:03:36 »
1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)
15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I have discussed some of the teachings I have heard with others about this very topic. We are called out of the world but some teach that we should look more like the world that we can reach the world. In this I am referring to christian rock bands, game rooms, and such in  the so called churches (by church I am referring to the building not the biblical definition)

What say you on this topic??

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Love not the world
« on: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 07:03:36 »

Offline Rella

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #1 on: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 07:48:14 »
1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)
15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I have discussed some of the teachings I have heard with others about this very topic. We are called out of the world but some teach that we should look more like the world that we can reach the world. In this I am referring to christian rock bands, game rooms, and such in  the so called churches (by church I am referring to the building not the biblical definition)



What say you on this topic??

My personal view. ( most likley a 180 from others here)

I am not of this world but I do have to live in it.
As to looking more like the world to teach it? So far, seems like mankind has miserably failed. So I say no.

But as far as "In this I am referring to christian rock bands, game rooms, and such in  the so called churches", I see no harm.

I would much rather my child be interesting in Christian rock then Cardi B. That being said... (but not to dance to but that is a different subject.)

Anyway, just my  ::twocents::

Online RB

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #2 on: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 14:18:07 »
I have discussed some of the teachings I have heard with others about this very topic. We are called out of the world but some teach that we should look more like the world that we can reach the world.
Quickly, and maybe more later since I'm on the run.

God has not called the church ( his people ) to reach the world, even though the whore has done her work to bring the world into the church ( outward profession churches ). This mustard seed has grown into a tree that is the largest business on earth and now fills the earth! Much more tares than wheat~and the enemy has done this while the church ( God's elect ) have been sleeping.  The results: the very elect has fled unto the mountains~because of the abomination of desolation now sits and rules in the churches! 
Quote from: yogi bear on: Today at 07:03:36
In this I am referring to christian rock bands, game rooms
Well, the harlot has bought her lovers in and if she wants them to stay, she has got to entertain them~goats like to play~if you have ever been around goats and sheep you should know exactly what I'm saying. I would say what Paul said to the church at Corinth:
Quote
1st Corinthians 11:22a~"What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God,................"

Must run....RB
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 14:20:47 by RB »

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #2 on: Mon Sep 14, 2020 - 14:18:07 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 03:57:43 »
I think it's interesting that

in John 3, God loved the world enough to sacrifice His Son,

but by 1John 2 loving the world is incompatible with the Father's love.

What changed?

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 03:57:43 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Online RB

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 04:55:14 »
I think it's interesting that

in John 3, God loved the world enough to sacrifice His Son,

but by 1John 2 loving the world is incompatible with the Father's love.

What changed?
Nothing! His love if for all without distinction....Jews, Gentiles= blacks, white, yellow, and red men, etc. Not all without exceptions!

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 04:55:14 »



Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 13:09:29 »
Nothing! His love if for all without distinction....Jews, Gentiles= blacks, white, yellow, and red men, etc. Not all without exceptions!
I agree - God doesn't change.  But that leaves us some 'splaining to do with regard to the verse here:

15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Thoughts?

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 16, 2020 - 13:09:29 »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #6 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 07:18:59 »
1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)
15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I have discussed some of the teachings I have heard with others about this very topic. We are called out of the world but some teach that we should look more like the world that we can reach the world. In this I am referring to christian rock bands, game rooms, and such in  the so called churches (by church I am referring to the building not the biblical definition)

What say you on this topic??

It's easy to preach against rock 'n roll.  People have been doing that since Buddy Holly picked up a guitar.   

DON'T get the wrong impression of me.  I agree with the premise quoted here about humanistic music in our houses of prayer, about programs for teens that either don't exist or have debauched into horizontal entertainments in church alcoves and coat rooms, and about real estate bond issues that do nothing for the community except pave the church parking lot or hire another staff member to sit around and sip coffee all day.

I AM writing here to address something much worse (as if worse was possible).  I am writing about the cancer of accepting religious slogans and buzz words as gospel.  I'm writing about a trap that virtually all of us have fallen into at one time or another.  I'm talking about repetitive meaningless BORING religion.   Statistics account for a surge in people leaving our churches.

According to PEW and Gallup polls the level of regular attendance, measured as one Sunday a month minimum, in the year 2010 fell 50% from 1948 levels.   Projecting the trend forward in time it is expected that regular attendance will fall to 10% by 2050.   Indeed, the recent COVID plague will result in 20% of our churches closing permanently due to financial misguidance and unmanageable debt.   The average church is in debt to approximately three to four million dollars each.  Such debt cannot be retired easily if at all.

Religious slogans and buzz words account for the bulk of belief in America.  Most who profess to be believers are Biblically illiterate.  Most have not read the entire Bible from cover to cover even once and many don't read it on a regular basis at all.  Count the cars in the parking lot on Sunday morning and count again on Wednesday evening when Bible study is offered.  Fewer cars at the mid-week meeting every time.....

TV evangelist Jimmie Baker, who was found guilty of real estate fraud, confessed that the first time he read the Bible from cover to cover was when he was incarcerated.    How many of us can claim to have done better?

Granted that those who participate on these pages have considerably more time invested in Bible study, but also consider that most don't.   Instead of READING and STUDY they rely upon slogans and buzz words.

For instance, you've no doubt heard the phrase "God bless America".  It's a common buzz word accepted even by non-believers.   Its a faux patriotic-religious slogan that rolls off the tongue quite well and serves two purposes - it affirms patriotic zeal and it purports to invoke heaven's blessing upon a land that has turned its back upon the Almighty - a nation which has become the greatest purveyor of violence in the world. (1)

Do you not know dear reader that the German National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi) propagandized a similar phrase in the 1930's?  Gott Mitt Uns means God is with us.   Does this sound familiar?

God wasn't with the Germans and God isn't with Americans.   The Holy Spirit NEVER vindicates a nation.  He ALWAYS vindicates the Kingdom of God.   ALWAYS.   

Religious slogans would have us believe that pledging allegiance to a godless striped flag is appropriate when JESUS NEVER DID.   Christ paid His taxes and obeyed the civil laws.  That's it and that's all.  (Matt 22:21)  Jesus did NOT pledge His allegiance to the Roman flag or the Jewish state.  He didn't honor Caesar or Herod. He didn't support the troops (except when they came humbly to Him).   Jesus didn't honor Roman wars of conquest or Jewish armed rebellion.   Should we?   If slogans and buzz words are our gospel, then we should.   But if we follow Jesus Christ we cannot. 

Many like to say "God is able" - meaning it's hoped He will bring back or establish times of prosperity and peace.   Do you not know O reader that God is also able to bring about judgment upon a nation that turns its back upon Him?  Read the newspaper and watch TV news.  Is there anything there that looks like blessings to you?  Western states burn to the ground.  Eastern states are inundated and reduced to toothpicks by catastrophic storms.  Everyone in between waits for the next finger of God to drop from the sky upon them.  Violence is as common as breakfast cereal.  When will we learn?

It is time to repent.

It is time to abandon our lazy meaningless slogans and buzz words and study to show ourselves approved. (2 Tim 2:15)  It's time to get off our lazy -couch- and go to work.  It's time to humble ourselves unto God.   

The nation is lost.  

Humble souls who seek God's mercy WILL find it, but they won't find it by echoing slogans and buzz words.   They will find it as a promise in the Bible - read cover to cover every day.  They will find it on their knees begging forgiveness and guidance and protection from God - not by voting for the best liar in the land.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(1) "America has become the greatest purveyor of violence in the world." - Rev. Martin Luther King, jr.    
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 07:37:50 by Choir Loft »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #7 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 13:22:07 »
I AM writing here to address something much worse (as if worse was possible).  I am writing about the cancer of accepting religious slogans and buzz words as gospel.  I'm writing about a trap that virtually all of us have fallen into at one time or another.  I'm talking about repetitive meaningless BORING religion.   Statistics account for a surge in people leaving our churches.

According to PEW and Gallup polls the level of regular attendance, measured as one Sunday a month minimum, in the year 2010 fell 50% from 1948 levels.   Projecting the trend forward in time it is expected that regular attendance will fall to 10% by 2050.   Indeed, the recent COVID plague will result in 20% of our churches closing permanently due to financial misguidance and unmanageable debt.   The average church is in debt to approximately three to four million dollars each.  Such debt cannot be retired easily if at all.

Religious slogans and buzz words account for the bulk of belief in America.  Most who profess to be believers are Biblically illiterate.  Most have not read the entire Bible from cover to cover even once and many don't read it on a regular basis at all.  Count the cars in the parking lot on Sunday morning and count again on Wednesday evening when Bible study is offered.  Fewer cars at the mid-week meeting every time.....

TV evangelist Jimmie Baker, who was found guilty of real estate fraud, confessed that the first time he read the Bible from cover to cover was when he was incarcerated.    How many of us can claim to have done better?

Granted that those who participate on these pages have considerably more time invested in Bible study, but also consider that most don't.   Instead of READING and STUDY they rely upon slogans and buzz words.

For instance, you've no doubt heard the phrase "God bless America".  It's a common buzz word accepted even by non-believers.   Its a faux patriotic-religious slogan that rolls off the tongue quite well and serves two purposes - it affirms patriotic zeal and it purports to invoke heaven's blessing upon a land that has turned its back upon the Almighty - a nation which has become the greatest purveyor of violence in the world. (1)

Do you not know dear reader that the German National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi) propagandized a similar phrase in the 1930's?  Gott Mitt Uns means God is with us.   Does this sound familiar?

God wasn't with the Germans and God isn't with Americans.   The Holy Spirit NEVER vindicates a nation.  He ALWAYS vindicates the Kingdom of God.   ALWAYS.   

Religious slogans would have us believe that pledging allegiance to a godless striped flag is appropriate when JESUS NEVER DID.   Christ paid His taxes and obeyed the civil laws.  That's it and that's all.  (Matt 22:21)  Jesus did NOT pledge His allegiance to the Roman flag or the Jewish state.  He didn't honor Caesar or Herod. He didn't support the troops (except when they came humbly to Him).   Jesus didn't honor Roman wars of conquest or Jewish armed rebellion.   Should we?   If slogans and buzz words are our gospel, then we should.   But if we follow Jesus Christ we cannot. 

Many like to say "God is able" - meaning it's hoped He will bring back or establish times of prosperity and peace.   Do you not know O reader that God is also able to bring about judgment upon a nation that turns its back upon Him?  Read the newspaper and watch TV news.  Is there anything there that looks like blessings to you?  Western states burn to the ground.  Eastern states are inundated and reduced to toothpicks by catastrophic storms.  Everyone in between waits for the next finger of God to drop from the sky upon them.  Violence is as common as breakfast cereal.  When will we learn?

It is time to repent.

It is time to abandon our lazy meaningless slogans and buzz words and study to show ourselves approved. (2 Tim 2:15)  It's time to get off our lazy -couch- and go to work.  It's time to humble ourselves unto God.   

The nation is lost. 

Humble souls who seek God's mercy WILL find it, but they won't find it by echoing slogans and buzz words.   They will find it as a promise in the Bible - read cover to cover every day.  They will find it on their knees begging forgiveness and guidance and protection from God - not by voting for the best liar in the land.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(1) "America has become the greatest purveyor of violence in the world." - Rev. Martin Luther King, jr.
That was strong. 

I agree, America is lost.  I have little hope for the country as a whole.  Just a couple years ago, when thinking about what legacy I should leave to my children, I thought in terms of assets and income-producing properties.  Nowadays I am thinking more in terms of a bunker, a well, etc...

Offline GB

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #8 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 14:01:53 »
I agree - God doesn't change.  But that leaves us some 'splaining to do with regard to the verse here:

15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Thoughts?

It seems the word "World" is held in a different context between the verse "God so loved the world" and "Love not the world".

God gave HIS Son, for the "People" of the world, not the dirt, or the trees, or the dishonesty, or the hatred or the injustice, etc.,.

Whereas 1 John is speaking to all the world has to give. money, power, fame, this worlds peace, religions, etc.

AS it is written.

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.


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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #8 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 14:01:53 »

Online RB

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #9 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 14:54:38 »
15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Thoughts?
Quote
1st John 2:15-17~"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."
I can do no better than quote from the faithful before me~they all basically say the same as these words:

"Love not He had said before that the only rule for living religiously, is to love God; but as, when we are occupied with the vain love of the world, we turn away all our thoughts and affections another way, this vanity must first be torn away from us, in order that the love of God may reign within us. Until our minds are cleansed, the former doctrine may be iterated a hundred times, but with no effect: it would be like pouring water on a ball; you can gather, no, not a drop, because there is no empty place to retain water.

By the world understand everything connected with the present life, apart from the kingdom of God and the hope of eternal life. So he includes in it corruptions of every kind, and the abyss of all evils. In the world are pleasures, delights, and all those allurements by which man is captivated, so as to withdraw himself from God.

Moreover, the love of the world is thus severely condemned, because we must necessarily forget God and ourselves when we regard nothing so much as the earth; and when a corrupt lust of this kind rules in man, and so holds him entangled that he thinks not of the heavenly life, he is possessed by a beastly stupidity.

If any man love the world He proves by an argument from what is contrary, how necessary it is to cast away the love of the world, if we wish to please God; and this he afterwards confirms by an argument drawn from what is inconsistent; for what belongs to the world is wholly at variance with God. We must bear in mind what I have already said, that a corrupt mode of life is here mentioned, which has nothing in common with the kingdom of God, that is, when men become so degenerated, that they are satisfied with the present life, and think no more of immortal life than mute animals. Whosoever, then, makes himself thus a slave to earthly lusts, cannot be of God.

The lust of the flesh, or, namely, the lust of the flesh. The old interpreter renders the verse otherwise, for from one sentence he makes two. Those Greek authors do better, who read these words together, "Whatever is in the world is not of God;" and then the three kinds of lusts they introduce parenthetically. For John, by way of explanation, inserted these three particulars as examples, that he might briefly shew what are the pursuits and thoughts of men who live for the world; but whether it be a full and complete division, it does not signify much; though you will not find a worldly man in whom these lusts do not prevail, at least one of them. It remains for us to see what he understands by each of these.

The first clause is commonly explained of all sinful lusts in general; for the flesh means the whole corrupt nature of man. Though I am unwilling to contend, yet I am unwilling to dissemble that I approve of another meaning. Paul, when forbidding, in Romans 13:14, to make provision for the flesh as to its lusts, seems to me to be the best interpreter of this place. What, then, is the flesh there? even the body and all that belongs to it. What, then, is the lust or desire of the flesh, but when worldly men, seeking to live softly and delicately, are intent only on their own advantages? Well known from Cicero and others, is the threefold division made by Epicurus; for he made this difference between lusts; he made some natural and necessary, some natural and not necessary, and some neither natural nor necessary. But John, well knowing the insubordination (ataxia) of the human heart unhesitantly condemns the lust of the flesh, because it always flows out immoderately, and never observes any due medium. He afterwards comes gradually to grosser vices.

The lust of the eyes He includes, as I think, libidinous looks as well as the vanity which delights in pomps and empty splendor.

In the last place follows pride or haughtiness; with which is connected ambition, boasting, contempt of others, blind love of self, headstrong self-confidence.

The sum of the whole is, that as soon as the world presents itself, our lusts or desires, when our heart is corrupt, are captivated by it, like unbridled wild beasts; so that various lusts, all which are adverse to God, bear rule in us. The Greek word, bios rendered life, (vita,) means the way or manner of living.

17 And the world passeth away As there is nothing in the world but what is fading, and as it were for a moment, he hence concludes that they who seek their happiness from it, make a wretched and miserable provision for themselves, especially when God calls us to the ineffable glory of eternal life; as though he had said, "The true happiness which God offers to his children, is eternal; it is then a shameful thing for us to be entangled with the world, which with all its benefits will soon vanish away." I take lust here metonymically, as signifying what is desired or coveted, or what captivates the desires of men. The meaning is, that what is most precious in the world and deemed especially desirable, is nothing but a shadowy phantom.

By saying that they who do the will of God shall abide for ever, or perpetually, he means that they who seek God shall be perpetually blessed. Were any one to object and say, that no one doeth what God commands, the obvious answer is, that what is spoken of here is not the perfect keeping of the law, but the obedience of faith, which, however imperfect it may be, is yet approved by God. The will of God is first made known to us in the law; but as no one satisfies the law, no happiness can be hoped from it. But Christ comes to meet the despairing with new aid, who not only regenerates us by his Spirit that we may obey God, but makes also that our endeavor, such as it is, should obtain the praise of perfect righteousness."   John Calvin 1509-1564
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 14:57:30 by RB »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Love not the world
« Reply #10 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 15:15:30 »
It seems the word "World" is held in a different context between the verse "God so loved the world" and "Love not the world."

God gave HIS Son, for the "People" of the world, not the dirt, or the trees, or the dishonesty, or the hatred or the injustice, etc.

Whereas 1 John is speaking to all the world has to give. money, power, fame, this worlds peace, religions, etc.
I agree.  Something about the context demands that "the world" of John 3 is not the same "world" of 1John 2.

I think the difference is one of time and place.  The "world" of John 3 would have been the Jewish people and culture around Jerusalem.  The "world" of 1John 2 would have been the nations that the Jews were scattered among after their rebellion and war with Rome.

Jarrod