Author Topic: Mark 16:17-20  (Read 6056 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Mark 16:17-20
« on: Sun Jul 10, 2022 - 21:37:51 »
Quote
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

There have been request that we study these passage once more and admittedly it is a highly controversial topic but I will try to give it my upmost attention but to be fair I am quite busy in other things at the time but we will try this.  As I stated this will be hard to do if we do not let the bible speak for itself because it really does adequately answer this itself.

First thing let the bible show this is spoken to the Apostles just before Jesus was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.  "And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed"

The second thing we need to notice in this passage is that it does tell why it will follow, "And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed"
With those to acknowledgements we will better understand as we progress with what is meant here.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jul 10, 2022 - 22:04:47 »
One more thought 

Why were the signs needed to confirm the word why didn't the Apostles just point to the text?

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, " But the righteous man shall live by faith ."


I think it can be proven by the word of God that the confirming signs were never intended to be forever.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 10, 2022 - 22:22:37 by yogi bear »

Offline RB

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10690
  • Manna: 423
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 03:14:29 »
Yogi, you have a big problem to address if you hold to your position and it is this:
Quote
Mark 16:17,18~"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
The signs follow those who heard, believe, and were baptized.

While it is true in other places God bears his witnesses witness who brought the word to the people, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, as it is written in Hebrews.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 2:1-4~"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"
Yet in Mark 16, the signs follow BELIEVERS who were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

More later, I'm off to post in another thread before my time is cut short this morning with appointments.  "hasta la vista my friend"~ RB
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 03:16:59 by RB »

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 10:05:56 »
And that is precisely what I meant when I said we need to let the word answer this and not get hung up on our preconceived ideals (understandings) but approach this with an open mind. It seems to me you are not quite dividing the word correctly but leaning more on your own understanding. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 10:05:56 »

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 10:32:56 »
Quote
Yet in Mark 16, the signs follow BELIEVERS who were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And they did just then question begs just who. how many and be careful to not change what signs to just anything we want to justify.

Quote
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Here pay close attention to the wording of the passage. Note it says  was confirmed indicating that maybe by this time they were no longer needed to do what they were placed in place to do. Notice it ends with according to his own will" so was it his will to keep confirming his word or was it confirmed in writing as was the Old testament and therefore the confirming sighs were no longer needed his will has been accomplished.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 10:32:56 »

Offline dan p

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
  • Manna: 7
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 14:19:07 »
 And this hat  Mark 16:17  means !!

 #1 The  Greek  words SHALL  FOLLOW / PARAKIOTHEO  is  a  verb in the  FUTURE  TENSE , ACTIVE  VOICE , and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD which it  is  a  FACT and in  SINGULAR .

 #2 The  next  Greek  words , THEM THAT / HO is  pointing  to the  next Greek  word .

 #3 They SHALL  CAST OUT / EKBALLO ,  DEMONS  as that it does  not means  DEVILS and is  in the  Greek  FUTURE  TENSE , ACTIVE  VOICE  and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD  , and is in the  PLURAL  as they will  casting  out  MANY  DEMONS .

 #4 THEY  SHALL  SPEAK / LALEO  is  also  in the  Greek  FUTURE  TENSE , ACTIVE  VOICE , and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD  and  means it  is  a  FACT and is in the  PLURAL ,  WHY  ?

 #5 Because the  144,000  will  preaching to  ALL  Jews  scattered all over the  WORLD as  written  in the  book  of the  REVELATION .

 #6 And  speak  with  NEW  TONGUES ,  WHY ?  Because , the  Jews  will  scattered  all  over  the  WORLD and will not  have  to  learn new  LANGUAGUES ,

 dan p

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 15:03:10 »
Now what is your thought yes the signs did in fact follow the early church I can agree and don't dispute the fact do you want to elaborate a little further or are we in agreement.

Offline dan p

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
  • Manna: 7
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:19:46 »
 And  the 14  books  that  Paul  wrote ,  took   ABOUT  40  YEARS to be  written !

 I would  says that all  of the  rest of the  14  Books  written were  not  written in just a few  years and all do  not  agree as to when they were  written , either !!

 dan p
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 18:35:19 by dan p »

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:39:20 »
still do not understand what point you are making

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:39:20 »

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:44:31 »
Please brothers and sisters following this thread I need a translator to help me understand what Dan is seeking. I really do not know what to make of his replies. Is he asking questions or just making statements or what is his intent?

Online Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 39879
  • Manna: 803
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:53:35 »
He’s kind of a stand alone anomaly in that respect. Likely no one can decipher his posts. I think I largely disagree with him on pretty much everything, but I am not totally certain.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 17:58:11 »
Understand I thought maybe It was me

Offline dan p

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
  • Manna: 7
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 18:41:56 »
And what number are  you  referring to . #8 ?  As  I am  still ,feeling  my  way  around !

 dan p

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 18:50:09 »
Dan I am just trying to figure out what it is you are seeking you asked if anyone would discuss these verses and that is what I am trying to do but your line of discussion leaves a lot to be desired. I cannot really follow all the short snips you make you need to express your thoughts in more detail explain yourself where you are coming from so as I can keep up the dialog with you

Offline dan p

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
  • Manna: 7
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 19:00:28 »
 And  I hate  long posts and if you will explain what it is that confuses you , I will be  glad to explain  LINE  by  LINE !!

 Just  point me what line it  is ?

 dan p


Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jul 11, 2022 - 19:56:11 »
I cannot understand if you think that the signs are still needed or if they have served  their purpose and is no longer needed

Online 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13652
  • Manna: 332
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jul 12, 2022 - 06:53:53 »
Unfortunately, dan p is not a searcher; his is an antagonist. And it would appear he is an antagonist for no other reason than being just an antagonist. Such generally have nothing positive to add to the conversation.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jul 12, 2022 - 18:34:03 »
Yogi, you have a big problem to address if you hold to your position and it is this: The signs follow those who heard, believe, and were baptized.

While it is true in other places God bears his witnesses witness who brought the word to the people, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, as it is written in Hebrews. Yet in Mark 16, the signs follow BELIEVERS who were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

More later, I'm off to post in another thread before my time is cut short this morning with appointments.  "hasta la vista my friend"~ RB

Red was that all you had???

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14699
  • Manna: 372
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #18 on: Wed Jul 13, 2022 - 02:47:16 »
Unfortunately, dan p is not a searcher; his is an antagonist. And it would appear he is an antagonist for no other reason than being just an antagonist. Such generally have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
He's ridin' that hobby-horse.  His hobby horse is that the idea that there are two gospels, and Paul is the true author of the Christian faith.  Christ is relegated so as to be only an apostle the Jews, in his mind.

Offline Glorious

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 984
  • Manna: 48
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jul 19, 2022 - 13:47:14 »
Quote
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

A believer is someone to whom grace has come. Signs (such as casting out demons, etc) naturally follow believers (recipients of grace).

Quote
19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

The Lord was received up into heaven. From heaven, He continued/continues working with believers on earth by confirming the word of grace by signs.

Signs are not "needed" to confirm the word, they naturally follow in order to manifest the word.

yogi bear wrote:
Quote
I think it can be proven by the word of God that the confirming signs were never intended to be forever.

I doubt you can prove by the word of God that confirming signs were never intended to be forever.

By nature, the grace of God abides forever. Signs, which naturally follow the word of grace, also abide forever.

Offline RB

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10690
  • Manna: 423
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #20 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 06:30:37 »
Red was that all you had???
At that moment, yes.  I'll take time after this week to add much more, the Lord willing. The family is on vacation, and I have had a load of work to get done, I'm almost seeing the light at the end of the long tunnel as the old saying goes. 

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17472
  • Manna: 201
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #21 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 07:21:12 »
Dan I am just trying to figure out what it is you are seeking
I have been trying to decipher dan's questions and comments on a number of threads. 
With little success.

Offline Texas Conservative

  • SuperFree, Board "Former", Senator of GCM, Ethical Dissenter "All 8 Symptoms" Chief Justice! "Radical Political Conservative" Certified Resident Board Genius, it is...Directly. Observable. The Man, The Myth, The Legend!
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13572
  • Manna: 416
  • My church is 100% right, Your church is 100% wrong
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 07:21:48 »
I believe Dan P mentioned Grace church.  That's enough background right there.  We had a poster granny or grandma that attended a Grace church near Detroit that pushed a lot of these doctrines.

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17472
  • Manna: 201
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #23 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 07:28:14 »
There have been request that we study these passage once more and admittedly it is a highly controversial topic but I will try to give it my upmost attention but to be fair I am quite busy in other things at the time but we will try this.  As I stated this will be hard to do if we do not let the bible speak for itself because it really does adequately answer this itself.

First thing let the bible show this is spoken to the Apostles just before Jesus was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.  "And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed"

The second thing we need to notice in this passage is that it does tell why it will follow, "And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed"
With those to acknowledgements we will better understand as we progress with what is meant here.
First off, you have to decide whether you accept Mark chapter 16 verses 9-20 as authentic.   While present in most of the manuscripts, many hold that this "longer ending" was a later addition and not part of the book as originally written. There is a shorter ending and some manuscripts just stop at verse 8.

You can see the discussion on the various endings here:
https://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17472
  • Manna: 201
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #24 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 07:29:45 »
I believe Dan P mentioned Grace church.  That's enough background right there.  We had a poster granny or grandma that attended a Grace church near Detroit that pushed a lot of these doctrines.
Hmmm.  Do they have a website?

Online Rella

  • I Am A Spirit, I Have A Soul, And I Live In A Body who firmly states that Becoming an adult is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11915
  • Manna: 669
  • ULTRA MAGA~ EXTREMELY "IRRITATINGLY" DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #25 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 08:40:00 »
First off, you have to decide whether you accept Mark chapter 16 verses 9-20 as authentic.   While present in most of the manuscripts, many hold that this "longer ending" was a later addition and not part of the book as originally written. There is a shorter ending and some manuscripts just stop at verse 8.

You can see the discussion on the various endings here:
https://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html


IMO the first thing one has to decide is if one believes other translations of the Holy  Bible other then what their personal choice for study is.

There are those who will only ever accept King James as the only authentic translation. And even though it was not the first
translation it will always be regarded in high esteem. Especially among the devotees of such who
ignore the historical fact that Wycliffe and his followers translated the Bible from Latin into English, which was completed about 1382 and went through various revisions. This was the first complete Bible in English. And Wycliff ended Mark in chapter 16. (inclusive of Mark 16:16)

Although the vast majority of later Greek manuscripts contain Mark 16:9-20, the Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Yet being "Catholic" versions they are highly ignored.

I have often read that evidence from this passage also casts doubt on Mark as the author. The writing styles are different. Almost showing an abrupt and bizarre change, lacking the continuity typical of Mark’s narrative.

If those that say of Codex Sinaiticus that  portions of the manuscript were found in St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai  dump around 1859... and has been labeled as  the most heavily corrected early New Testament manuscript.... then I would say the RCC church was the one who "corrected " it and potentially added to the scriptures.

However......................
It is said that Eusebius by the 4th century said the Greek manuscripts did not include these endings in the originals.

For myself. If there are manuscripts that end at chapter 8, or at chapter 16 I tend to believe the shorter and that someone other then Mark added to things. Does that make them wrong? IDK. 

No way to prove it one way or the other....  ::shrug::

Online Rella

  • I Am A Spirit, I Have A Soul, And I Live In A Body who firmly states that Becoming an adult is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11915
  • Manna: 669
  • ULTRA MAGA~ EXTREMELY "IRRITATINGLY" DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #26 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 08:45:18 »
Mark 16:16 Wycliff translation.....

Interesting translation.............

16Who that believeth, and is baptized, shall be safe (shall be saved); but he that believeth not, shall be condemned. [+He that shall believe, and shall be christened, shall be saved; soothly he that shall not believe, shall be damned.]

https://biblehub.com/wycliffe/mark/16.htm

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17472
  • Manna: 201
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #27 on: Wed Jul 20, 2022 - 09:09:47 »
For myself. If there are manuscripts that end at chapter 8, or at chapter 16 I tend to believe the shorter and that someone other then Mark added to things. Does that make them wrong? IDK. 

No way to prove it one way or the other....  ::shrug::
One pastor I know with a ThD from Wheaton Seminary studied that part of scripture out and came to the conclusion that even if Mark 16:9-20 were not original to the text, they accurately described the belief and practice of the early church and all points can be supported elsewhere in scripture.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 10:39:53 »
Glorious you said
Quote
A believer is someone to whom grace has come. Signs (such as casting out demons, etc) naturally follow believers (recipients of grace).

Glorious that is an opinion not supported by biblical scripture. Scripture does not say that signs naturally follow but are given to produce results. It says that right there where we started from. If we are going to get to the truth of this message we must read it the way it is written.



Glorious you said
Quote
The Lord was received up into heaven. From heaven, He continued/continues working with believers on earth by confirming the word of grace by signs.

Signs are not "needed" to confirm the word, they naturally follow in order to manifest the word


Again Glorious that is your opinion not totally supported by biblical scripture. AS I pointed out above the Scripture did indeed say that the signs were given to confirm the word of God. It is clearly spelled out for you in the very same scriptures we are discussing. It clearly tells you their purpose.

Let us reason a bit why this would be so.

A new gospel has come into the world the Savior has been crucified now how do we know these others are about God's business? We have no scriptures to point to as we did. The new testament is currently being written. The new law we will be governed by is not written as of yet so therefore the sign needs to confirm that it is coming From God. When it is finally recorded we will no longer need the sings to confirm or God has failed to accomplish his mission.

Just a few verses to help support this thought.

 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name


Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, " But the righteous man shall live by faith ."


Glorious you said
Quote
I doubt you can prove by the word of God that confirming signs were never intended to be forever.

By nature, the grace of God abides forever. Signs, which naturally follow the word of grace, also abide forever.
Again Glorious that is your opinion not totally supported by biblical scripture. I think if we study this with an open mind and really  pay attention to what is recorded and read it the way it was recorded we will find that the signs did have a specific reason and was for a time but ran their course.

Yes Glorious God is the same today tomorrow and always but his plan is not to keep creating and confirming he did that once and in doing so placed it to take care of itself so we must not try to over think God.

I will leave it here and await your response.

Love in Christ Jesus
Billy Vaughan

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 10:46:30 »
Quote from: yogi bear on Tue Jul 12, 2022 - 18:34:03
Quote
Red was that all you had???
Quote
At that moment, yes.  I'll take time after this week to add much more, the Lord willing. The family is on vacation, and I have had a load of work to get done, I'm almost seeing the light at the end of the long tunnel as the old saying goes.

Take your time my brother will be waiting to hear from whether in agreement or debate.


Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 10:52:10 »
DaveW you said
Quote
First off, you have to decide whether you accept Mark chapter 16 verses 9-20 as authentic.   While present in most of the manuscripts, many hold that this "longer ending" was a later addition and not part of the book as originally written. There is a shorter ending and some manuscripts just stop at verse 8.

You can see the discussion on the various endings here:
https://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html
Modify message

Yes Dave I have heard these debates before but I do not pay much attention to them for I can find the same wording through out the new testament in many more places saying  the same thing therefore I know it is biblical statement.

Offline yogi bear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Manna: 748
  • Gender: Male
  • I TOO AM A DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #31 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 10:59:10 »
Okay let's try this. Those of you wanting to debate whether Mark 16:17-20 should be considered as scripture go and find it in the new testament where it is echoed over and over and use those scriptures instead of making a big deal about it being recorded here. It is a verifiable teaching regardless where it was placed it is recorded throughout the new testament as fact.

Online Rella

  • I Am A Spirit, I Have A Soul, And I Live In A Body who firmly states that Becoming an adult is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11915
  • Manna: 669
  • ULTRA MAGA~ EXTREMELY "IRRITATINGLY" DEPLORABLE
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #32 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 12:41:37 »
One pastor I know with a ThD from Wheaton Seminary studied that part of scripture out and came to the conclusion that even if Mark 16:9-20 were not original to the text, they accurately described the belief and practice of the early church and all points can be supported elsewhere in scripture.

That is a valid thought. "can be supported elsewhere in scripture."

But is it not true that every word in the scriptures... ( ie New Testament) ... points to the belief and practice of the early church?

So why would someone feel the need to add the same thoughts anywhere when they are amply found elsewhere?

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17472
  • Manna: 201
  • Gender: Male
  • carrying Torah scroll
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #33 on: Thu Jul 21, 2022 - 13:20:03 »
So why would someone feel the need to add the same thoughts anywhere when they are amply found elsewhere?
Printing was time intensive and very expensive.  Not every congregation had a complete NT; maybe only one or 2 books. 

I knew (25 years ago) a woman who ran bibles into china thru Hong Kong.  Once inside, sometimes they would be torn into several pieces and sent to different locations.  So that still happens today even.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14699
  • Manna: 372
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark 16:17-20
« Reply #34 on: Fri Jul 22, 2022 - 13:56:16 »
One pastor I know with a ThD from Wheaton Seminary studied that part of scripture out and came to the conclusion that even if Mark 16:9-20 were not original to the text, they accurately described the belief and practice of the early church and all points can be supported elsewhere in scripture.
I would contend that Scripture suggests that those seeking signs lack faith, and that signs themselves are untrustworthy; able to be replicated by the enemy.

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.  But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:  Matthew 12:38-39

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness. 1Corinthians 1:21-23


That isn't to say that there aren't any signs; many are recorded.  But faith based on such fails (e.g. Simon Magus), and our ability to correctly perceive/interpret them is poor.

Jarrod