Author Topic: Mary's Infidelity  (Read 1148 times)

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Offline DaveW

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jul 30, 2020 - 06:21:26 »
Quote
Therefore; seeing as there is no law forbidding God to impregnate a women that He's not married to, then if and/or whenever He chooses to do so; for Him it's not a sin.
So it was ok for God to do that but not for Mary to allow it??  You are saying God FORCED Mary to sin?

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jul 30, 2020 - 06:21:26 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #36 on: Thu Jul 30, 2020 - 11:54:30 »
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To my knowledge, there are no rules and/or regulations in the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God forbidding their women to have a baby with God. I'm not saying there aren't any, maybe there is; but I've yet to run across one.
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« Last Edit: Thu Jul 30, 2020 - 13:00:06 by NyawehNyoh »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #37 on: Fri Jul 31, 2020 - 06:00:58 »
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To my knowledge, there are no rules and/or regulations in the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God forbidding their women to have a baby with God. I'm not saying there aren't any, maybe there is; but I've yet to run across one.
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And if that is so -  then WHAT EXACTLY is Mary's "infidelity?"

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #37 on: Fri Jul 31, 2020 - 06:00:58 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #38 on: Sat Aug 01, 2020 - 14:31:57 »
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FAQ: Why was Joseph left out of Jesus' conception? Why couldn't he have been Jesus' biological father?

A: There's a few theories out there we might consider.

1• Men are filthy, unsanitary beasts. It's unthinkable that God would permit them to contaminate, and thus violate, the womb that was to bear the Holy Son of God.

» Women's bodies are made of material taken from a man's body (Gen 2:21-23). Mr.Job nailed it when he remarked: Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one (Job 14:4). You see; women aren't from Venus after all: they're actually from Mars, same as men.


2• It was a measure to prevent the so-called fallen nature from infecting Jesus; which is believed inherited from a child's biological father.

» Well; whence did Eve get it? She was constructed of material taken from Adam's body; but he tasted the fruit after she was born, so it was too late for him to pass the fallen nature on to her via his genetics.


3• Joseph was left out of Jesus' conception in order to protect him from the curse upon king Jeconiahs' royal posterity (Jer 22:29-30, Matt 1:11).

» That's a very popular theory among quite a few Protestants. However; according to the language and grammar of the curse; its duration was limited to an era when the land of Israel was divided into two kingdoms-- Judah in the south and Samaria in the north --which came to an end when Nebuchadnezzar crushed the whole country and led first Samaria, and then later Judah, off to Babylonian slavery. When Christ takes the reins, the land of Israel will be unified, i.e. it will no longer be Judah in the south and Samaria in the north.

And besides, Jeconiah's royal line and the curse were inseparable. Had the curse been established in perpetuity, then when Jesus was placed in Jeconiah's royal line via his adoption to Joseph, he would've inherited the curse right along with the line; virgin conceived or not would've made no difference.


4• Another theory, which to me seems the best interpretation, is that it was simply God's wishes that Jesus be not only Adam's progeny, but also His own, viz: Son of Man and Son of God, in accord with the angel's announcement. (Luke 1:32-35)
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« Last Edit: Sat Aug 01, 2020 - 14:53:21 by NyawehNyoh »

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #38 on: Sat Aug 01, 2020 - 14:31:57 »

Offline Rella

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #39 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 11:43:24 »
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FAQ: Why was Joseph left out of Jesus' conception? Why couldn't he have been Jesus' biological father?


Let me be as simplistic as I can be.

The most obvious to me is that the side of Jesus that was a healer and miracle worker simply would not be.

He needed His supernatural side to be able to carry out all he did.

Joseph was not one of the court magicians that I ever heard and if he was... none of them could walk on water.

Why in the world do you want to complicate this?



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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #39 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 11:43:24 »



Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #40 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 13:57:39 »
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2• It was a measure to prevent the so-called fallen nature from infecting Jesus; which is believed inherited from a child's biological father.

When Eve tasted the forbidden fruit, it had no effect. She went right on just as naked as before without the slightest feelings of shame. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she obtained a sense of decency. Prior to that, had someone walked up and said; "Hey, put some clothes on; you're indecent." she would've stared at them as if they were a man gone mad.

Eve was born before Adam tasted the fruit; so he could not, nor did he, give her a sense of decency by means of procreation, nor by means of his body parts that God used to construct her.

Since Eve didn't obtain a sense of decency from the chemistry of the fruit, nor via procreation by means of Adam's body parts; then whence?

We're left with two alternatives: either God did it or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (John 8:44, Heb 2:14) and is able to tamper with the human body and the human mind, e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield the power of death the moment that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it set in. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, they both immediately set to work with the fig leaves.


FAQ: Why wasn't Eve effected by the Serpent's power of death when she tasted the forbidden fruit?

A: It was apparently God's wishes that sin and death come into the world via a man's actions just as life and righteousness would later be offered to the world via a man's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent do his deadly work on people. . . in the womb or out of the womb?

A: Adam and Eve demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5)

In conclusion: even if Joseph had been baby Jesus' end-game biological father, the child wouldn't have necessarily been born with the so-called fallen nature because it's not passed on by one's biological father nor one's biological mother. It's obtained from humanity's other father; the Serpent-- ergo: protecting baby Jesus from the so-called fallen nature was just a simple matter of keeping the Devil's paws off him.
_

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #40 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 13:57:39 »

Offline Rella

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #41 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 15:03:25 »
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When Eve tasted the forbidden fruit, it had no effect. She went right on just as naked as before without the slightest feelings of shame. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she obtained a sense of decency. Prior to that, had someone walked up and said; "Hey, put some clothes on; you're indecent." she would've stared at them as if they were a man gone mad.

Eve was born before Adam tasted the fruit; so he could not, nor did he, give her a sense of decency by means of procreation, nor by means of his body parts that God used to construct her.

Since Eve didn't obtain a sense of decency from the chemistry of the fruit, nor via procreation by means of Adam's body parts; then whence?

We're left with two alternatives: either God did it or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (John 8:44, Heb 2:14) and is able to tamper with the human body and the human mind, e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield the power of death the moment that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it set in. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, they both immediately set to work with the fig leaves.


FAQ: Why wasn't Eve effected by the Serpent's power of death when she tasted the forbidden fruit?

A: It was apparently God's wishes that sin and death come into the world via a man's actions just as life and righteousness would later be offered to the world via a man's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent do his deadly work on people. . . in the womb or out of the womb?

A: Adam and Eve demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5)

In conclusion: even if Joseph had been baby Jesus' end-game biological father, the child wouldn't have necessarily been born with the so-called fallen nature because it's not passed on by one's biological father nor one's biological mother. It's obtained from humanity's other father; the Serpent-- ergo: protecting baby Jesus from the so-called fallen nature was just a simple matter of keeping the Devil's paws off him.
_


 ::frown::

You have a twisted way of looking at this.

Enjoy your deception and belief that Mary was a slut.

Nothing will change your mind.


Offline chosenone

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #42 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 13:40:24 »
God is Jesus' Father, period. I have no idea why you cant just believe that.   ::shrug::
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 16:08:33 by chosenone »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #43 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:39:52 »
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God is Jesus' Father, peiiod.

God is Jesus' father.

Luke 1:32 . . He will be called the Son of the Most High.

Luke 1:35 . .The holy child shall be called the Son of God.

God is identified in the Bible in something like 47 instances as Jesus' father.


David was Jesus' father.

Luke 1:32 . .The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David

Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

Humanity is identified in the Bible in something like 88 instances as Jesus' father.

It's not uncommon to encounter Christians who readily attest that they believe Christ is fully God and fully Man, while in reality they only believe he's fully God because they're unable to tell any difference between the Word as a divine being in John 1:1 and the Word as a human being in John 1:14.
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« Last Edit: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:49:05 by NyawehNyoh »

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #43 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:39:52 »

Offline Rella

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #44 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 16:41:59 »
.
God is Jesus' father.

Luke 1:32 . . He will be called the Son of the Most High.

Luke 1:35 . .The holy child shall be called the Son of God.

God is identified in the Bible in something like 47 instances as Jesus' father.


David was Jesus' father.

Luke 1:32 . .The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David

Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

Humanity is identified in the Bible in something like 88 instances as Jesus' father.

It's not uncommon to encounter Christians who readily attest that they believe Christ is fully God and fully Man, while in reality they only believe he's fully God because they're unable to tell any difference between the Word as a divine being in John 1:1 and the Word as a human being in John 1:14.
_


God the Father, God the Son,God the Holy Spirit is all you need to know.

Anything more you are incapable of understanding.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Mary's Infidelity
« Reply #45 on: Wed Aug 05, 2020 - 22:30:35 »
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Luke 2:22-24 . . And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord. (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord: a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

The birds were for Jesus' mom (Lev 12:6-8). They were a "sin" offering; but I don't think it would be wise to conclude from the wording of Leviticus that Jesus' mom was a sinner because whether sinner or saint, God required it of Moses' people; take for example Matt 13:13-15 where it's said:

"Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me? Jesus replied: Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness. Then John consented."

John's baptism was "unto repentance" (Matt 3:11). Well; surely Jesus needed no repentance; he was a saint in the extreme sense of the word: i.e. Jesus was 110% sinless (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, and 1Pet 2:22). However, it was God's wishes that people in the Israel of that day submit to John's baptism regardless whether they needed it-- not only because it was God's wishes, but by doing so they publically acknowledged that repentance is a good thing.

In other words: Jesus' mom brought those birds; not because she was a sinner, but primarily because it was the right thing for Jewish mothers to do.

Now, Jesus was circumcised on his eighth day (Luke 2:21). His mom brought her birds thirty-three days later (Lev 12:3-4). Along with the birds, she was supposed to bring a sum of money to redeem her boy (Num 18:15-16).

The redemption money was a buy-back; in other words: its purpose wasn't to save Jesus' soul from Hell; rather, the money was a ransom; so to speak. All the firstborn sons in Israel were God's private property to do with as He pleased. In other words: the boys were all born into slavery to God. The redemption money bought them their freedom.

It really wasn't all that much; just five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is something like twenty gerahs per shekel (Ezek 45:12) roughly equivalent to 10 English pennyweights or 1/2 troy ounce of silver. So five shekels would be about equal to 2½ troy ounces. The price of silver as of Aug 05, 2020 was 27 US dollars per troy. So 2½ ounces troy would total about 67.50 US dollars (57.35 Euro).

I don't know the equivalent of $67.50 back in Mary's day but in our day, silver prices fluctuate due to the activity of investors; back in her day silver's value was no doubt strictly regulated by the government and thus probably worth a whole lots less than it is now.
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