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Quote from: p.rehbein on March 17, 2012, 10:14:36 AM

Quote:

In the context of Mt 3:11 John is speaking to the Pharisees and Saducees that rejected his baptism.  John said to those Jews that rejected his baptism that he baptized them with water. Why would John say to these Pharisees and Saducess that rejected his baptism that he baptized them with water?  No one in the context requested to be baptized, but the context has John telling people he had not baptized that he did baptize them with water.
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He is JUST making a "general statement" speaking to everyone, not just those you keep referring to....................I just don't see what point you are trying to make?

 

Mt 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:"


So John was speaking to these Pharisees and Saducees when he said "I indeed baptize you with water".

Since he did not baptize those Pharisees and Saducees with water, John is using the pronoun "you" both times in a general, generic sense.  So from this context it cannot be exactly determined who the pronoun "you" refers to therefore people cannot make themselves the second 'you' and claim that Christ baptized them with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 , I've been wondering all along where you were going with this thread..................as you were very careful to keep your intent/point secret until now..............
 

You may believe as you wish, but as for me, I believe in Jesus the Christ, my Lord and Saviour, and it's in Him that I will place my faith, trust and love, not John the Baptist.

Quote from: Gomer on March 20, 2012, 09:43:30 AM

Quote from: p.rehbein on March 17, 2012, 10:14:36 AM

Quote:

In the context of Mt 3:11 John is speaking to the Pharisees and Saducees that rejected his baptism.  John said to those Jews that rejected his baptism that he baptized them with water. Why would John say to these Pharisees and Saducess that rejected his baptism that he baptized them with water?  No one in the context requested to be baptized, but the context has John telling people he had not baptized that he did baptize them with water.
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He is JUST making a "general statement" speaking to everyone, not just those you keep referring to....................I just don't see what point you are trying to make?

 

Mt 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:"


So John was speaking to these Pharisees and Saducees when he said "I indeed baptize you with water".

Since he did not baptize those Pharisees and Saducees with water, John is using the pronoun "you" both times in a general, generic sense.  So from this context it cannot be exactly determined who the pronoun "you" refers to therefore people cannot make themselves the second 'you' and claim that Christ baptized them with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Using the same logic, those who John later baptized in water could not make themselves the first "you".

The issue is in the immediate context.  John was speaking to the Pharisees and said "I baptize you".  Since he had not baptized them in water it cannot be determined from the immediate context who the "you' is in verse 11.  In the immediate context John was speaking to the Pharisees when he used the pronoun 'you', he was not speaking to those he might have baptized later with the pronoun 'you'.  John is simply announcing he baptized with water but Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire but it cannot be determined from the immediate context who the 'yous' refer to.