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Author Topic: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant  (Read 4625 times)

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Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #70 on: Sun Dec 03, 2017 - 09:43:59 »
John T. Willis Instrumental Music and Direct Holy Spirit Theology.
Quote
John T. Willis claims that: Sing and make melody" was a very common practice throughout the history of God's people. These two practices are inseparable as one.  2. "Sing" is vocal; "make melody" is INSTRUMENTAL. Psalms 33:2-3; 144:9; 149:1, 3 make this crystal clear. Amos 5:23 further verifies this reality.


NO ONE WHO EVER READ ANY OF THE BIBLE WOULD NOT ACCIDENTALLY MAKE THAT BLUNDER. Psallo MEANS to pluck a string with the FINGERS and never with a PLECTRUM.  No one can, without being purpose driven or hearing A spirit, ever make psallo have a MUSICAL MEANING. You SIN if you use a guitar pick, blow a wind instrument or beat on a drum.

Psa. 33:2 [1] Praise    [hold our your arms or through a stone]
        [2] the Lord        [Never TO an assembly]
        [3] WITH harp:  [When a harp is intended God is smart enough to NAME it]
        [3] SING unto [2] HIM with the [3] PSALTERY and an instrument of TEN STRINGS
Psa. 33:3 [1] Sing unto him a new [2 song; [1]play skilfully with [3] a loud NOISE



There is no "music" in The Book of The Covenant of Grace OR The Book of The Law of Moses.  It is outlawed in Exodus 31 KEEPING THE REST DAY and was a Sin Beyond Redemption at Mount Sinai: that is addressed in Acts 7; 1 Corinthians 10; Romans 10; Jude as a mark of those FOREORDAINED and in many other places in the New Testament. God abandoned the Jews to worship the starry host. The SERVICE of the Jacob-Cursed and God-Abandoned Levites was OUTLAWED in Genesis 49 and was identical to the ABOMINATIONS they brought with them from Egypt common with the Greeks, Canaanites and Babylonians.

Nemean 9 For Chromius of Aetna Chariot Race ?474 B. C.

Pi.N.9.50 9.[1 Pindar 9:[1] Muses, we will go in victory procession from Apollo's [APOLLON, ABADDON] shrine in Sicyon to newly-founded Aetna, where the doors flung open wide are overwhelmed by guests, at the prosperous home of Chromius. Make a sweet song of verses! For, mounting his chariot of victorious horses, he gives the word to sing for the mother and her twin children [5] who jointly watch over steep Pytho. [6] There is a saying among men: a noble deed when it is accomplished should not be buried silently in the ground; and divine song is suited to boasting. But we will wake the shouting lyre and the flute in honor of the very pinnacle of horse-contests, which Adrastus established for Phoebus [Apollo, Apollyon] by the streams of the Asopus.

    My heart is steadfast, O God, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music. Psalm 57:7
    AWAKE, my soul! Awake, HARP and LYRE! I will awaken the dawn. Psalm 57:8

    Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone,
          Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver,
          and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. Habakkuk 2:19
     But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep SILENCE before him. Habakkuk 2:20 [commanded 1 Tim. 2]

Peace loves the symposium [Crooked race-Near Wine], and new-flourishing victory is fostered by soft song, and the voice becomes bold beside the mixing-bowl. [50] Let someone mix the wine now, the sweet forerunner of victory-song, and dispense the powerful son of the vine in those silver goblets which once Chromius' horses won for him and sent from holy Sicyon together with the duly twined garlands of Leto's son. Father Zeus, I pray that I may celebrate this excellence by the favor of the GRACES, and excel many poets in honoring VICTORY [Nike] with my verses, [55] throwing [shoot forth a myth] my shaft nearest of all to the mark of the Muses Double entendre

A Myth is 2. fiction (Opposite. logos (Regulative Principle), historic truth) Double entendre

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #70 on: Sun Dec 03, 2017 - 09:43:59 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #71 on: Thu Dec 07, 2017 - 19:40:07 »
Tyre and Jerusalem are like twin cities. God did not command a temple in Jerusalem so Solomon hired the king of tyre to build him one paid for by enslaved Jews and selling Jewish town.  Much of the temple of the Temple to Melqart aka LUCIFER still exists. There is not a shard to prove that the grand temple or HOUSE Solomon built when God commanded David a TENT or family

Is. 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day,
       that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king:
       after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.
Is. 23:16 Take an [1] harp, go about the city,
        thou HARLOT that hast been forgotten;
        make sweet [2] melody,
        sing many [3] songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

h5059. nagan, naw-gan´; a primitive root; properly, to thrum, i.e. beat a tune with the fingers; expec. to play on a stringed instrument

Is. 23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years,
        that the Lord will visit Tyre,
        and she shall turn to her hire,
        and shall commit FORNICATION [h2181.  zanah,]
        with all the kingdoms of the world
        upon the face of the earth.

h869 ethnanthe price of harlotry or idolatry):—hire, reward.

GOD DID NOT COMMAND SACRIFICES OF THE HOLOCAUST OF GOATS OR INFANTS

Jer. 7:21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer. 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Therefore God HATED their sacrifices with David's WARRIOR instruments as worship and not just their bad mental attitude.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amos 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings,
        I will not accept them:
        neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Amos 5:23 Take thou away from me
        the noise of thy [1] songs;
        for I will not hear the [2] melody of thy [3] viols.

2172.  zimrah, zim-raw´; from 2167; a musical piece or song to be accompanied by an instrument:—melody, psalm.

NEVER with an instrument being SPECIFIED.  The melody word like psallo just means PLUCK or SMITE a string and has no musical meaning unless you PLUCK a harp string and one psallo does not a tune make

WHY WOULD THE HISTORIC SOWER OF MUSICAL AND INSTITUTIONAL DISCORD BE HONORED FOR SAYING THAT MELODY ALWAYS MEANS TO PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT?  MAYBE IT IS THE CLAIM OF BEING INFORMED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT?

I WILL POST THE GREEK MUSICAL "MELODY" WORD WHICH PERMITS NO MODERN "TUNEFULNESS."
 

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #71 on: Thu Dec 07, 2017 - 19:40:07 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #72 on: Fri Dec 08, 2017 - 14:40:52 »
Melody means to Cut the Text into Syllables so that they can be SPOKEN without any tunefulness. 



GRACE TEACHES AND WILL NOT PERMIT YOU TO PLAY MUSIC WHEN JESUS IS THE ONLY TEACHER WHEN APT ELDERS TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT WITHOUT PASSING THE PLATE TO WIDOWS AND HONEST WORKING PEOPLE.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #72 on: Fri Dec 08, 2017 - 14:40:52 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #73 on: Sat Dec 09, 2017 - 22:28:19 »
When Lucifer was CAST AS PROFANE into the Garden of Eden He/she came equipped with wind, string and percussion instruments.
God offered The Book of The Covenant of Grace and they agreed to keep: this was Abrahamic before the Patriarchs were DEMOTED in favor of a senior pastor: the kings God gave in His anger.
The people rose up to PLAY worshiping the golden calf: this was playing instruments and playing with one another Romans 1 etc.
This violated the SABBATH and was beyond redemption.
God then gave them The Book of The Law of Moses and sentenced them to captivity and death.
The Jacob-Cursed Levites jumped at the chance to execute 3000 of the "brethren".
There is no other example of group singing with or WITHOUT instruments.
Moses said that the Jews were blinded and made deaf until "another prophet like me came."
The clear statement is to SPEAK or READ the Scriptures which is the OPPOSITE of ODE or SING.
I betcha that most people are still bind and deaf.
The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 30 says that the sound of God driving His enemies into HELL will be Lucifers wind, string and percussion instruments.
It won't work to try a legalistic end run and perform ORGANIC instrumental music which is NOT and NEVER "that which is written for our learning."
I think that this is the meaning of GLOBAL WARMING since the same musical performers are promised to be cast alive into the lake of fire.
I would watch out if the towers begin to fall as the sexual misfits are not as worse as child molesters refusing to TEACH that which has been taught IF you have an apt elder.


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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #73 on: Sat Dec 09, 2017 - 22:28:19 »

Offline bemark

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 22:25:54 »
Kenneth I am not a thelogian at all . I did do some insight into the calf or bull that the israialites worshipped after they  passing the sea that was devided  by a strong east wind. but can't really find it now as years have driffeted by.  My imput into this was that it was a God Baal of who was a God of the  wind or storm. So they worshipped what the new from Egypt and not the God of today. Did they perceive that Baal opened up the Red Sea and not almighty God. A strong east wind also means a angel

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 22:25:54 »



Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #75 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 22:59:43 »
Quote
Kenneth I am not a thelogian at all . I did do some insight into the calf or bull that the israialites worshipped after they  passing the sea that was devided  by a strong east wind. but can't really find it now as years have driffeted by.  My imput into this was that it was a God Baal of who was a God of the  wind or storm. So they worshipped what the new from Egypt and not the God of today. Did they perceive that Baal opened up the Red Sea and not almighty God. A strong east wind also means a angel

That's true: I believe that Jupiter was a primary storm god

Baʿal, the Canaanite & Phoenician storm, fertility, & war god. King of the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal

There were many lords and Gods so God informed Moses that He is the Lord-God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  The Israelites were defacto Egyptians, brought their abominations with them and

Ex. 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Ex. 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,

While Moses was Getting The Book of The Covenant based on Grace, the people rejected their vows and worshipped the golden calf which represented the Egyptian Osiris, Isis and Horus.

Ex. 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Ex. 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

God abandoned them to "worship the starry host" and whatever they. CALLED their gods they never obeyed Jehovah as the Lord-God.

Judg. 2:13 And they forsook the Lord, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

1Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
1Kings 18:22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal’s prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

Psa. 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the Lord chase them
Psa. 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits [WIND]; his ministers a flaming fire:

The Bible is filled with proof that the demand for kings caused God to abandon them.  The synagogue or church still existed for the godly people to remain in their isolated villages on the sabbath or rest day to read and discuss the word.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #75 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 22:59:43 »

Offline bemark

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #76 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 23:19:45 »
You are a interesting brother filled with knowledge . Live on my friend

Offline bemark

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #77 on: Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 23:25:27 »
Wow you could have easly seen how they got sucked in . That was all they new

Offline bemark

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #78 on: Tue Dec 12, 2017 - 01:11:53 »
So it wasn't how they worshipped but who they chose to worship.So really a piano if you relate it to this day could be for good or for evil. U worship satan and his fallen angels or Our All mighty God. Is it not the same today. It's about focus of our worship in regards to who we worship.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #78 on: Tue Dec 12, 2017 - 01:11:53 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #79 on: Tue Dec 12, 2017 - 11:22:29 »
Kenneth I am not a thelogian at all . I did do some insight into the calf or bull that the israialites worshipped after they  passing the sea that was devided  by a strong east wind. but can't really find it now as years have driffeted by.  My imput into this was that it was a God Baal of who was a God of the  wind or storm. So they worshipped what the new from Egypt and not the God of today. Did they perceive that Baal opened up the Red Sea and not almighty God. A strong east wind also means a angel
The golden calf was the Egyptian god Hathor, probably.  The Israelites didn't worship the Baals until they got into the northern parts of Canaan, where that god was popular.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #80 on: Tue Dec 12, 2017 - 12:05:02 »
Quote
The golden calf was the Egyptian god Hathor, probably.  The Israelites didn't worship the Baals until they got into the northern parts of Canaan, where that god was popular

That's true: Hathor was the female counter of Apis.  Miriam claimed to be a "prophetess" able to speak for God: her sistrum is claimed to mark her as a prophetess of Hathor because of her standing as a kind of princess.

After that worship at Mount Sinai God turned them over to worship the HOST of heaven rather than the Creator of the Host (Acts 7) we should grasp that the "gods" they worshipped was the sun, moon and known planets to whom they gave human names.

Baal was more Semite which fits the pattern of being turned loose to do what was right in their own eyes.

Baal does not appear until Numbers.  Baal is Canaanite or Phoenecian influence

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity


« Last Edit: Tue Dec 12, 2017 - 12:09:27 by Kenneth Sublett »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #81 on: Fri Dec 15, 2017 - 12:58:11 »
Ion by Plato has Socrates ridiculing inspired musicians.

http://www.piney.com/MuIon.html

In like manner the Muse first of all inspires men herself;and from these inspired persons a chain of other persons is suspended, who take the inspiration.
    For all good poets, epic as well as lyric, compose their beautiful poems NOT by art, but because they are INSPIRED AND POSSESSED
And as the Corybantian REVELLERS when they dance are not in their right mind,
        so the lyric poets are not in their right mind when they are composing their beautiful strains:
        but when falling under the power of music and metre they are inspired and possessed;
                like Bacchic maidens who draw milk and honey from the rivers
                when they are under the influence of Dionysus
                but NOT when they are in their right mind.

There is NO lyric poetry from Genesis to Revelation

And the soul of the lyric poet does the same, as they themselves say; for they tell us that they bring songs from honeyed fountains, culling them out of the gardens and dells of the Muses; they, like the bees,

    winging their way from flower to flower.
    And this is true.
    For the poet is a light and winged and holy thing,
and there is no invention in him until he has been inspired and is OUT OF HIS SENSES, and the mind is no longer in him: when he has not attained to this state, he is powerless and is unable to utter his oracles

Many are the noble words in which poets speak concerning the actions of men; but like yourself when speaking about Homer,
     they do not speak of them by any rules of art:
    they are simply inspired to utter that to which the Muse impels them, and that only; and when inspired, one of them will make dithyrambs, another hymns of praise (often to Apollon), another choral strains, another epic or iambic verses- and he who is good at one is not good any other kind of verse:
            for not by art does the poet sing,
            but by power divine.

Had he learned by rules of art, he would have known how to speak not of one theme only, but of all; and therefore
    god takes away the minds of poets,
    and uses them as his ministers,
    as he also uses diviners and holy prophetess,

    in order that we who hear them may know them to be speaking not of themselves who utter these priceless words in a state of unconsciousness, but that god himself is the speaker, and that through them he is conversing with us.

kōma , atos, to, (perh. cogn. with keimai, koimaō) malakon peri kōm' ekalupsen”  of the effect of music, Pi.P.1.12.
Pind. P. 1 Golden lyre, rightful joint possession of Apollon and the violet-haired Muses, to which the dance-step listens, the beginning of splendid festivity; and singers obey your notes, whenever, with your quivering strings, you prepare to strike up chorus-leading preludes.
...Even powerful Ares, setting aside the rough spear-point, warms his heart in repose; your shafts charm the minds even of the gods, by virtue of the skill of Leto's son and the deep-bosomed Muses. But those whom Zeus does not love are STUNNED WITH TERROR when they hear the cry of the Pierian Muses, on earth or on the irresistible sea;


Isaiah 29:10] For Yahweh has poured out on you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, the prophets; and your heads, the seers, has he covered.

kata-nuxis , eōs, hē, A.  stupefaction, bewilderment, “epotisas hēmas oinon -nuxeōs” LXXPs. 59(60).3, cf.Is.29.10.
2.   contrition, Just.Nov.137.6


And Tynnichus the Chalcidian affords a striking instance of what I am saying:

    he wrote nothing that any one would care to remember but the famous paean which; in every one's mouth, one of the finest poems ever written, simply an invention of the Muses, as he himself says.

THE MUSES IN REVELATION ARE CALLED SORCERERS.

Hesiod, The Theogony.  Speaking of Apollon's Musical Worship Team

http://www.piney.com/DocHesTheog.html

"[25] the Muses of Olympus, daughters of Zeus who holds the aegis: “Shepherds of the wilderness,
        wretched things of shame, mere bellies,
        we know how to speak many false things as though they were true;
        but we know, when we will, to utter true things.”
            and they bade me sing of the race of the blessed gods that are eternally,
            but ever to sing of themselves both first and last.





Offline bemark

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #82 on: Sun Dec 17, 2017 - 04:04:12 »
Hi WS and KS you guys are awesome with the correct timeline of events. It sure helps as in understanding the word , you need to know your history and with people here like you it’s good because you do. Again i’m impressed by your knowledge. Thankyou
 

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #83 on: Fri Jan 05, 2018 - 13:16:51 »
 Ovid, Metamorphoses. Paul Silenced the Orphics in Romans 14

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Ov.%20Met.%2011.17&lang=original

Now whyle the Thracian Poet with this song delyghts the mynds
Of savage beastes, and drawes both stones and trees ageynst their kynds,

Hor. Ars 395 Orpheus, the priest and interpreter of the gods, deterred the savage race of men from slaughters and inhuman diet; hence said to tame tigers and furious lions: Amphion too, the builder of the Theban wall, was said to give the stones motion with the sound of his lyre, and to lead them whithersoever he would, by engaging persuasion

    G5157 tropē that is, revolution (figuratively variation):—turning.

    James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
    and cometh down from the Father of lights,
    with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning

“Pythia cantica” Hor. Ars 414, songs like the hymns which were sung in honor of Apollon, by the chorus in some comedies. A player, called Pythaules, played during the intervals when the chorus left off singing.

Paul warned about Jewish Fables and the Prophets speak of the Lying Pen of the Scribes who wrote about the Temple God did not command.

"Amphion was connected with Orpheus and JUBAL who was the "father of them that play the lyre."A Greek Tretise on Music, by Philodemus; and here we have the truth represented which lay hidden under the fables of Orpheus and Amphion. This latter was a skilful harper, who was frequently employed by the Theban workmen to play to them while engaged in their lavour, and for which they rewarded him out of the proceeds of that labor. So powerful and pleasing was his music, that they went lightly and comfortably through their work; and time and labour passed on without tedium or fatigue; and the walls and towers were speedily raised." Clark, II Chron 34:12).

Romans 14 outlaws the ORPHICS where Orpheus is the inventor of IMpure worship or THRESKIA

Behold the wyves of Ciconie with red deer skinnes about
Their furious brists as in the feeld they gadded on a rout,
Espyde him from a hillocks toppe still singing to his harp.
Of whom one shooke her head at him, and thus began to carp:

Behold (sayes shee) behold yoon same is he that doth disdeine
Us women. And with that same woord shee sent her lawnce amayne
At Orphyes singing mouth. The Lawnce armd round about with leaves,
Did hit him, and without a wound a marke behynd it leaves.


Another threw a stone at him, which vanquisht with his sweete
And most melodius harmonye, fell humbly at his feete
As sorye for the furious act it purposed. But rash
And heady ryot out of frame all reason now did dash,

And frantik outrage reigned. Yit had the sweetenesse of his song
Appeasd all weapons
, saving that the NOYSE now growing strong
        With blowing shalmes,
        and beating drummes, and bedlem howling out,
        And clapping hands on every syde by Bacchus drunken rout,

Did drowne the sownd of Orphyes harp. Then first of all stones were
Made ruddy with the prophets blood, and could not give him eare.
And first the flocke of Bacchus froes by violence brake the ring
Of Serpents, birds, and savage beastes that for to heere him sing

Sate gazing round about him there. And then with bluddy hands
They ran uppon the prophet who among them singing stands.
They flockt about him like as when a sort of birds have found
An Owle a daytymes in a tod: and hem him in full round,
As when a Stag by hungrye hownds is in a morning found,
The which forestall him round about and pull him to the ground.

Even so the prophet they assayle, and throwe their Thyrses greene
At him, which for another use than that invented beene.
Sum cast mee clods, sum boughes of trees, and sum threw stones. And lest
That weapons wherwithall to wreake theyr woodnesse which increast
Should want, it chaunst that Oxen by were tilling of the ground
And labring men with brawned armes not farre fro thence were found



Psa. 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psa. 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psa. 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Psa. 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint:
         my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa. 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd;
       and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws;
       and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa. 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
       they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa. 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Psa. 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psa. 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psa. 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psa. 22:21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

DOGS IN AMOS 8 AND REVELATION 18 HAVE THE SAME MEANING.

H3611.  keleb, keh´-leb; from an unused root means. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute:—dog.



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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #84 on: Sun Jan 07, 2018 - 14:45:04 »
Aristoph. Frogs 907

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0032%3Acard%3D907

Euripides
Well, of myself and what sort of poet I am,
I will tell at the end: but first I'll prove that this man
       was an impostor and a cheat,
       and how he took the spectators
       and used to fool the dupes reared with Phrynichos.
First, he'd wrap up and sit down someone or other,

An Achilles, or Niobe, not showing the face,
a facade of tragedy, not mumbling so much as this.

Dionysus
That's right, they didn't.

Euripides
And then the chorus boomed
four strings of lyric in a row nonstop: but THEY kept quiet.

That meant strum as a percussion instruments and never tunful in the modern sense.

Dionysus

And l enjoyed their silence; that pleased me
no less than the babblers now.

When people sang TO a harp they never tried to sing and play an instrument at the same time which would SILENCE and dishonor the Author.

Euripides
Because you were stupid,
no doubt about it.

Dionysus
I think so too. Why did the so-and-so do this?

Euripides
From fraudulence, so the spectator would sit there waiting
for when Niobe would say something. And the play would go on.

la^l-eō ,
A.  talk, chat, prattle, “hepou kai mē lalei” Ar.Ec.1058,
kheli_d-ōn the twittering of the swallow was prov. used of barbarous tongues by the Greeks, “eiper esti mē khelidonos dikēn agnōta phōnēn barbaron kektēmenē” A.Ag.1050: hence ho kh., = ho barbaros, Ion l.c.; “Thrēkia kh. epi BARBARON  hezomenē petalon” Ar.Ra.681 (lyr.); khelidonōn mouseia bowers that ring with poetasters' twitterings, ib.93 (parodied from aēdonōn mouseia

Metaphor aēd-ōn , onos, hē (ho, v. infr.), (aeidō) Metaphor for a locust, II. mouthpiece of a flute,

aeidō ,  sing, Il.1.604, etc.: hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, Pl.Smp..223c; hoot as owls, Arat.1000; croak as frogs of other sounds, twang, of the bow-string, Od.21.411; whistle, of the wind through a tree, Mosch.Fr.1.8; ring, of a stone when struck, Theoc.7.26:—prov., prin nenikēkenai adein 'to crow too soon',

Mousa  II. mousa, as Appellat., music, song, “m. stugera” A.Eu.308 (anap.); “euphamos” Id.Supp.695 (lyr.); “kanakhan [CLANGING]. . theias antiluron mousas” S.Tr.643 (lyr.); “Aiakō moisan pherein” Pi.N.3.28   A.“Olumpiades M., Dios aigiokhoio thugateres” [ALWAYS Daughters: the Mother Goddess could be MALE]

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #85 on: Fri Jan 12, 2018 - 20:13:01 »
The Church, Ekklesia or Synagogue of Messiah is defined inclusively and exclusively in the prophets.  Jesus defines Holy Scripture for His new creation as the PROPHETS by the Spirit of Christ, the prophecies made more certain concerning Messiah by signs and wonders and the record left for our MEMORY by eye-- and ear-- witnesses.

Eph. 2:20 And are BUILT UPON [EDUCATED] the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The Jewish leaders gathered at the ANGLE and out of sight to plot evil: Jesus spoke openly which God Him murdered and WORD speakers hated.

Is. 4:2 In that day shall the BRANCH of the Lord be beautiful and glorious,
         and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely
         for them that are ESCAPED of ISRAEL.
Is. 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion,
         and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy,
         even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Is. 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion,
         and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem [Sodom] from the midst thereof
         by the SPIRIT of judgment, and by the SPIRIT of burning.

A million Jews were either eaten or "cast on a bed of maggots" in hell--just outside of Jerusalem.  The Jews are still looking for the tensof thousands of harps without which they cannot dedicate the new temple.

The baptism of the Spirit and Fire is the WINNOWING of the VIPER RACE by WIND and FIRE to burn the CHAFF. Isaiah defines the Assembly of Christ where the kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious observations or operations called lying wonders.

Is. 4:5 And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion,
          and upon her ASSEMBLIES, a cloud and smoke by day,
          and the shining of a flaming fire by night:
          for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

THE MIQRA or holy convocation was held on the FIRST and SEVENTH days during religious festivals for DRAFT AGE MALES.  The Synagogue and Ekklesia are READING ASSEMBLIES ONLY of the WORD only. Readers were vocational elders commanded to teach that which has been taught.




Is. 4:6 And there shall be a TABERNACLE for a SHADOW in the daytime from the heat,
        and for a place of REFUGE, and for a COVERT from storm and from rain.

God lives in His family and never in houses built with human hands and never worshipped with the WORKS of human hands: raising, clapping, pointing, picking or grinnin'

The HOUSE of Israel or the Church of Christ is a SAFE HOUSE to protect the LAMBS from the Jumping GOATS: REST excludes everything you plan to do this church day where songs and sermons intend to silence the ONLY authoritative Teacher.



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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #86 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 22:43:54 »
Something Horace wants to say in Ode 2:13

Black day he chose for planting thee,
Accurst he rear'd thee from the ground,
The bane of children yet to be,
The scandal of the village round.

His father's throat the monster press'd
Beside, and on his hearthstone spilt,
I ween, the blood of midnight guest;
Black Colchian drugs, whate'er of guilt

Is hatch'd on earth, he dealt in all—
Who planted in my rural stead
Thee, fatal wood, thee, sure to fall
Upon thy blameless master's head.

The dangers of the hour! no thought
We give them; Punic seaman's fear
Is all of Bosporus, nor aught
Reeks he of pitfalls otherwhere;

The soldier fears the mask'd retreat
Of Parthia; Parthia dreads the thrall
Of Rome; but Death with noiseless feet
Has stolen and will steal on all.

How near dark Pluto's court I stood,
And Aeacus' judicial throne,
The blest seclusion of the good,
And Sappho, with sweet lyric moan

Bewailing her ungentle sex,
And thee, Alcaeus, louder far
Chanting thy tale of woful wrecks,
Of woful exile, woful war!

In sacred awe the silent dead
Attend on each: but when the song
Of combat tells and tyrants fled,
Keen ears, press'd shoulders, closer throng.


What marvel, when at those sweet airs
The hundred-headed beast spell-bound
Each black ear droops, and Furies' hairs
Uncoil their serpents at the sound?


Prometheus too and Pelops' sire
In listening lose the sense of woe;
Orion hearkens to the lyre,
And lets the lynx and lion go.


Pope, Ode on St. Cecilia's Day, IV.,

'But hark! he strikes the golden lyre;
And see! the tortured ghosts respire!
See shady forms advance
!

Thy stone, O Sisyphus, stands still,
Ixion rests upon his wheel,
And the pale spectres dance.
The Furies sink upon their iron beds,
And snakes uncurled hang listening round their heads';

Dryden,
'Hear ye sullen powers below,'
'Music for a while
Shall your cares beguile.
. .
Till Alecto free the dead
From their eternal bands;
Till the snakes drop from her head,
And whip from out her hands';


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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #87 on: Mon Jan 22, 2018 - 17:39:23 »

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #88 on: Sat Mar 03, 2018 - 12:38:35 »
2 TIMOTHY 3 PART A

As prophesied in Revelation 17f, the once-Christian schools are using women to promote the SONG OF SOLOMON to prove that explicity sexxual conversation is REQUIRED for salvation.  The poor creatures do not know that the Song defined the Hieros Gamos. God never commanded animal sacrifices or burnt offerings (HOLOCAUST) because all sacrificial altars and arcitecture (as well as churches) are built to implant "sacred sexuality of all kinds" (Romans 1).

The pattern was that women COULD NOT perform sacred rituals BUT they must be performed by males performing female roles.  For instance the DRESS of the Jewish Priests including the EPHOD as an explicit Babylon garment all derived from the garments of loose women.



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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #89 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 21:28:54 »
Henry Layard defines the Yezidi who identifies the Kurdish "Christians" 

http://www.piney.com/LayNinev08.html

"Among the Devil-worshippers of Modern Chaldea, the same festival is celebrated at this day, with rites probably almost the same, so far as circumstances will allow, as thousands of years ago, when in the same regions the worship of Tammuz (worshiped by the women in the Jerusalem Temple, Eze 8:14) was in all its glory.... As theTwilight faded,

Ezekiel 8 is reviewed here and includes the same Jewish Synagogues in Rome and why in Romans 14 Paul SILENCED everything that did not educate.  This eliminates self-pleasure in Romans 15 which includes ANY of the musical, theatrical or oratorical PERFORMANCE so that "we might use one mind and one mouth" to "speak that which is written for our LEARNING" or "Scripture for our Comfo
rt".

http://www.piney.com/MuTammuz.html

    the Fakirs, or lower orders of priests (Levites) dressed in brown garments of course cloth, closely fitting to their bodies, and wearing black turbans on their heads, issued from the tomb, each bearing a light in one hand, and a pot of oil, with a bundle of cotton wick in the other...

As the priests made their way through the crowd to perform their task (the people especially the children had their arms 'passed through the fire' for purification)... and as night advanced, those who had assembled--they must now have amounted to five thousand persons--lighted torches, which they carried with them as they wandered through the forest.

The effect was magical: the varied groups could be faintly distinguished through the darkness--men hurrying to and fro--women with their children seated on the house-tops--

    and crowds gathering round the peddlars, who exposed their wares for sale in the court-yard.

Thousands of lights were reflected in the fountains and streams, glimmered amongest the foliage of the trees, and danced in the distance. As I was gazing on this extraordinary scene, the hum of human voices was suddenly hushed, and a strain, solemn and melancholy, arose from the valley. It resembled some majestic chant which years before I had listened to in the cathedral of a distant land. Music so pathetic and so sweet I never before heard in the East. The voices of the men and women were blended in harmony with the soft notes of many flutes.

    At measured intervals the song was broken by the loud clash of cymbals and tambourines (selah?); and those who were within the precincts of the tomb then joined in the melody... The tambourines, which were struck simultaneously, only interrupted at intervals the song of the priests.

"As the time quickened they broke in more frequently. The chant gradually gave way to a lively melody, which increasing in measure, was finally lost in a confusion of sounds. The tambourines were beaten with extraordinary energy--the flutes poured forth a rapid flood of notes-- the voices were raised to the highest pitch--the men outside joined in the cry--whilst the women made the rocks resound with the shrill tahlehl.

    "The musicians, giving way to the excitement, threw their instruments into the air, and strained their limbs into every contortion, until they fell exhausted to the ground. I never heard a more frightful yell than that which rose in the valley. It was midnight. I gazed with wonder upon the extraordinary scene around me. Thus were probably celebrated ages ago the mysterous rites of the Corybantes, when they met in some consecrated grove."


"Now, the reader cannot fail to have observed that in this Yezidi festival, men, women, and children were 'purified' by coming in contact with the 'sacred element' of fire. (they also received a light from divinity). Therefore it was that 'children were made to pass through the fire of Moloch' (Jer. xxxii. 35), to purge them from original sin, and through this purgation many a helpless babe became a victim to the bloody divinity." (Hislop, Alexander, The Two Babylons, p. 119-120, Loizeaux Brothers) See Layard's Version

This is the PATTERN CORRECTED in 2 Chronicles 29 which the progressives claims is GOD'S COMMAND FOR INSTRUMENTAL WORSHIP WITH A SPIRIT'S APPROVAL TO SOW MASSIVE DISCORD.

« Last Edit: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 21:42:30 by Kenneth Sublett »

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #90 on: Tue Jun 12, 2018 - 08:12:12 »
Plato and other recorded history warns that religious musicians suffer gender-bleed over.  Paul hoped that they would "let the knife slip and emasculate themselves."

Catullus,Carmina 63 
http://www.piney.com/CatullusMu.html

"Eve" was Cybele in Crete world and probably began in Mesopotamia where the female was dominant.  Paul said that Eve was "wholly seduced" like a young bride so that "Cain was OF that wicked one. Attis was the Tammuz of Ezekiel 8 and those who Paul silenced in Romans 14.

Thy timbrel, Mother Cybele, the firstings of thy rite,
And as her tender finger-tips on bull-back hollow rang
She rose a-grieving and her song to listening comrades sang.

"Up Gallae, hie together, haste for Cybele's deep grove,
Hie to the Dindymnean dame, ye flocks that love to rove;
The which affecting stranger steads as bound in exile's brunt
My sect pursuing led by me have nerved you to confront

The raging surge of salty sea and ocean's tyrant hand
As your hate of Venus' [ZOE] hest your manly forms unmann'd,
Gladden your souls, ye mistresses, with sense of error bann'd.
Drive from your spirits dull delay, together follow ye
To hold of Phrygian goddess, home of Phrygian Cybebe,
Where loud the cymbal's voice resounds with timbrel-echoes blending,
And where the Phrygian piper drones grave bass from reed a-bending,

Where toss their ivy-circled heads with might the Maenades
Where ply mid shrilly lullilooes the holiest mysteries,
Where to fly here and there be wont the she-god's vaguing train,
Thither behoves us lead the dance in quick-step hasty strain."


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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #91 on: Tue Jun 12, 2018 - 08:17:48 »
All of that is way out there.  We are commanded to use mechanical instruments of worship.  If you do not use them, you are part of the abomination of desolation.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #92 on: Tue Jun 12, 2018 - 10:02:30 »
Jesus said that worship is IN SPIRIT as a PLACE and Paul said that the worshipped IN THE SPIRIT and not IN THE FLESH to keep the bad performers out. It's pretty hard to get your tambourine IN your spirit as the Holy Place.

An Arabic saying is "if the father plays the tambourine the son will dance." rofl

The Abomination of Desolation

http://www.piney.com//Deuteronomy.18.Abomination.Of.Those.Nations.html




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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #93 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 15:04:15 »
When Peter said to SAVE YOURSELVES FROM THIS CROOKED RACE this is the same command BY PAUL that the Elders must not be NEAR WINE.  Paul in Ephesians 5 also warns against getting FLUTED DOWN WITH wine to be ENABLED to SPEAK the WORD where SPEAK was always understood to specifically to be OPPOSITE of ODE or sing.

JOHN T. WILLIS IS THE LEADER OF THE END TIME SORCERERS:

http://www.piney.com/John.T.Willis.Instrumental.Melody.html


The Male Symposium was defined by several writers where everyone must get drunk and sing SKOLIANS and PLAY in turn.

kat-auleo , A. charm by flute-playing,  phobō I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, E.HF871 (troch.):—Pass., of persons, methuōn kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute, Pl.R.561c; k. pros khelōnidos psophon to be played to on the flute with lyre accompaniment,
2. c. gen. loci, make a place sound with flute-playing, Thphr.Fr.87:— Pass., resound with flute-playing, “nēsos katēuleito” Plu.Ant.56.
II. in Pass., [ton monokhordon kanona parekhein tais aisthēsesi . . katauloumenon subdued by a flute accompaniment,  metaph., to be piped down, ridiculed, “gelōmenoi kai -oumenoi” 
III. c. acc. rei, play on the flute, “ta mētrōa” Duris 16 J.:—Pass., to have played to one as an accompaniment on the flute, -“oumenoi pros tōn hepomenōn ta mētrōa melē” D.H.2.19.


http://www.piney.com/ClassPlatoSymposium.html

Paul, Plato and Simple Simon understood that if you want to SPEAK TO ONE ANOTHER you must first CAST OUT the flute and harp girls USED to help you GET DRUNK ON WINE.

Plato Protagoras
[347c] But if he does not mind, let us talk no more of poems and verses,
       but consider the points on which I questioned you at first,
       Protagoras, and on which I should be glad to reach, with your help, a conclusion.
For it seems to me that arguing about poetry
       is comparable to the wine-parties of common market-folk.
These people, owing to their inability to carry on a familiar conversation
       over their wine by means of their own voices and discussions-
-
[347d] such is their lack of education--
       put a premium on flute-girls by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a high price,
       and carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance.

But where the party consists of thorough gentlemen who have had a proper education,
       You will see neither flute-girls nor dancing-girls nor harp-girls,
       but only the company contenting themselves with their own conversation,
       and none of these fooleries and frolics--
       each speaking and listening decently in his turn,

THAT IS EXPLAINED SEVERAL TIMES BUT CANNOT BE ACCEPTED BY THE FLUTE GIRLS.

    au)l-htri/s , i/dos, h(,
    A. flute-girl, Simon.178, Ar.Ach.551, X.HG2.2.23, Pl.Prt.347d, BCH6.24 (Delos, ii B. C.), etc.

    o)rxhst-ri/s , i/dos, h(,
    A. dancing girl, Ar.Ach.1093, Nu.996, Crates Com.27, Metag.4, Pl.Prt.347d : o)rxhstria/des, f.l. for -i/des, Arist. EE1246a35.

    ya/l-tria , Psaltria
    A. female harper, Pl.Prt. 347d, Ion Trag.22, Arist.Ath.50.2, Men.319.4, Plu.Caes.10, al.

    Silly Talk lh=ros

    paid-i/a , Ion. -ih, h(,
    A. [select] childhood, = paidei/a 11.1; “e)n paidi/h| kai\ neo/thti” Hp.Prorrh. 2.42; “paidi/as kai\ nhpio/thtos xa/rin” Pl.Lg.808e; childishness, ib. 864d.
    e/gw3

Suneimi: To be joined with, Intercourse is II. to have intercourse with a person, live with hêdonê, desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, voluptuosus

[347e] even though they may drink a great deal of wine.
     And so a gathering like this of ours,
     when it includes such men as most of us claim to be,
     requires no extraneous voices,
     not even of the poets, whom one cannot question
     on the sense of what they say;
when they are adduced in discussion
      we are generally told by some
      that the poet thought so and so, and by others, something different,
      and they go on arguing about a matter
      which they are powerless to determine.
      No, this sort of meeting is avoided by men of culture,

[348a] who prefer to converse directly with each other,
      and to use their own way of speech
      in putting one another by turns to the test.
It is this sort of person that I think you
      and I ought rather to imitate; putting the poets aside,
let us hold our discussion together in our own persons,
     making trial of the truth and of ourselves.
So if you wish to question me further,
        I am at your service as answerer;
        but if you like, put yourself at my service,
        so that we may clear up the several points of the inquiry
        in which we stopped half-way.
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 15:12:50 by Kenneth Sublett »

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #94 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 15:10:20 »
When Peter said to SAVE YOURSELVES FROM THIS CROOKED RACE this is the same command that the Elders must not be NEAR WINE.
Where, precisely, did Peter say that Elders must not be near wine?

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #95 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 15:14:46 »
I didn't say that PETER said that: Paul said that.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #96 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 16:54:54 »
Yes, you did;  my mistake, sorry.  So then please tells us, specifically, where Paul says that elders must not be near wine.

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #97 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 18:08:59 »
I always try to go back and recheck my notes. Here is a quick look which can be expanded. I Don't move as fast as I used to.

1Tim. 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tim. 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

KJV Strongs
g3943. paroinos, par´-oy-nos; from 3844 and 3631; staying near wine, i.e. tippling (a toper): — given to wine.

A Tippler was not approved in civil society.  A Tippler mixed three parts of water to one palrt low grade wine.

NEAR
g3844.  para, par-ah´; a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e. (with genitive case) from beside (literally or figuratively), (with dative case) at (or in) the vicinity of (objectively or subjectively), (with accusative case) to the proximity with (local (especially beyond or opposed to) or causal (on account of): — above, against, among, at, before, by, contrary to, x friend, from, + give (such things as they), + that (she) had, x his, in, more than, nigh unto, (out) of, past, save, side...by, in the sight of, than, (there-)fore, with. In compounds it retains the same variety of application.

WINE
g3631 oinos, oy´-nos; a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin (H3196)); “wine” (literally or figuratively): — wine.

ELDERS AND WIVES MUST BE SOBER
nēphal-ios , a, on, also os, on 1 Ep.Ti.3.11, Plu. 2.657c: (nēphō):—of drink,
A.  unmixed with wine, n. meiligmata offerings of water, milk, and honey to the Eumenides,

nēphō ,  to be sober, drink no wine, —to be sober, drink no wine, “oute ti gar n. oute liēn methuō”

From the Symposium 213E defining the CROOKED RACE (Skolion singers-players) and "don't get fluted down with wine."

Reclining there, he proceeded: “Now then, gentlemen, you look sober: I cannot allow this; you must drink, and fulfil our agreement. So I appoint as president of this bout, till you have had a reasonable drink—myself. Agathon, let the boy bring me as large a goblet as you have. Ah well, do not trouble,” he said; “boy, bring me that cooler there,”—

In Civil Greek (pre modern) society of the WORST KIND removed the Wine, Flute Girls, Harpists and dancers when they had something serious to discuss because, the "laded burden" or "self pleasure" created Spiritual Anxiety and inflicted pain which forced everyone to drink more wine.

I don't know anyone in the once-Christian universities who do not permit "moderate wine" and the harp girls and boys ENABLE their Selling of The FREE water of the Word.


Offline 4WD

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #98 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 19:09:56 »
Joh 2:7  Jesus said to them, "Fill the waterpots with water." And they filled them up to the brim.
Joh 2:8  And He said to them, "Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast." And they took it.
Joh 2:9  When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.
Joh 2:10  And he said to him, "Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!"


1Ti_5:23  No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities.


Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #99 on: Fri Jun 22, 2018 - 19:26:32 »
Sounds like something they taught in preacher's school?? Good wine is Fruit of the Vine and not even the village wine merchant would provide INTOXICANTS to a wedding feast. A small glass of wine can cause birth defects at the wrong time of pregnancy.


Quietness at Religious Festivals can prevent the same birth defects so we want the ladies to be SAFE during pregnancy and not, as the preachers believe, saved BY giving birth.



Offline RB

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #100 on: Sat Jun 23, 2018 - 03:05:07 »
Where, precisely, did Peter say that Elders must not be near wine?
Where everything else that he believes in: "Piney.com"...it is his bible.
Quote from: Kenneth Sublett Yesterday at 18:08:59
I always try to go back and recheck my notes. Here is a quick look which can be expanded. I Don't move as fast as I used to.

1Tim. 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tim. 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
I'm going to start  thread and deal with wine~ come there and let us reason together. "Given TO WINE is not the same as do touch or drink wine.

Quote
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/deuteronomy-1428-moses'-teaching-on-wine-and-strong-drink/
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 23, 2018 - 04:07:02 by RB »

Offline Open Heart

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #101 on: Sat Jun 23, 2018 - 14:49:01 »
A small glass of wine can cause birth defects at the wrong time of pregnancy.
Let me say before I begin that I drank no wine during any of my pregnancies.  I didn't even drink coffee.

Can you please tell us PRECISELY when during the pregnancy a small glass of wine causes birth defects, what sort of birth defects this small glass of wine causes, and provide a scientific journal article that backs up your claim.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #102 on: Sat Jun 23, 2018 - 16:52:38 »
I have lots of references which I will have to find. One fact was that Jews have never been heavy drinkers.  Passover demands that you remove all "leaven" from your house.

"The law forbade seor--yeast, ferment, whatever could excite fermentation--and khahmatz, whatever had undergone fermentation, or been subject to the action of seor." (Patton 85).

    "The great mass of the Jews have ever understood this prohibition as extending to fermented wine, or strong drink, as well as to bread. The word is essentially the same which designates the fermentation of bread and that of liquors." (Patton)

    "In the Holy Land they do not commonly use fermented wines. The best wines are preserved sweet and unfermented." In reference to their customs at their religious festivals, he repeatedly and emphatically said: 'The Jews do not, in their feasts for sacred purposes, including the marriage feast, ever use any kind of fermented drinks. In their oblations and libations, both private and public, they employ the fruit of the vine--that is, fresh grapes -- unfermented grape - juice, and raisins, as the symbol of benediction. Fermentation is to them a symbol of corruption, as in nature and science it is itself decay, rottenness'." (Dr. S. M. Issacs, a Jewish rabbi of the last century, quoted by Patton, p. 83).


The Drink Offering was poured out.  Here is an article that comes to mind:

https://www.parenting.com/article/toxic-future-fathers

Plin. Nat. 14.14 (13.)

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D14%3Achapter%3D14

At Rome it was not lawful for women to drink wine. Among the various anecdotes connected with this subject, we find that the wife of Egnatius Mecenius2 was slain by her husband with a stick, because she had drunk some wine from the vat, and that he was absolved from the murder by Romulus. Fabius Pictor, in his Book of Annals, has stated that a certain lady, for having opened a purse in which the keys of the wine-cellar were kept, was starved to death by her family: and Cato tells us, that it was the usage for the male relatives to give the females a kiss, in order to ascertain whether they smelt of "temetum;" for it was by that name that wine was then known, whence our word "temulentia," signifying drunkenness. Cn. Domitius, the judge, once gave it as his opinion, that a certain woman appeared to him to have drunk more wine than was requisite for her health, and without the knowledge of her husband, for which reason he condemned her to lose her dower. For a very long time there was the greatest economy manifested at Rome in the use of this article. L. Papirius,3 the general, who, on one occasion, commanded against the Samnites, when about to engage, vowed an offering to Jupiter of a small cupfull of wine, if he should gain the victory. In fact, among the gifts presented to the gods, we find mention made of offerings of sextarii of milk, but never of wine.

I may have read but have forgotten but I suspect that any alcohol or anything you are not sure about would possible be dangerous very early.  It is true that even coffee would have a more severe impact on the infant's nervouse system than an adult.  Loud music can have the same effect.

    "The prohibition of intoxicating wines to women was enforced by the severest penalties. 'Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, and others have noticed the hereditary transmission of intemperate propensities, and the legislation that imposed abstinence upon women had unquestionably in view the greater vigor of the offspring--the 'healthy minds in a healthy body.' That indulgence in the use of strong drink by expectant mothers would be injurious to their offspring was known to the learned and wise among the ancients" (Quoted in Temperance Bible Commentary)

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Musical instruments and the child of God under the New Covenant
« Reply #103 on: Sun Jul 22, 2018 - 10:22:51 »
THE MARK OF THE BEAST

http://www.piney.com/The.Mark.of.The.Beast.html

We have noted in other threads how BURNING is often prophesied for the Creation of Jesus

2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now,
       by the same WORD [Logos as Regulative Principle]
       are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
       and perdition of ungodly men
.

The Judas Bag is widely documented of the prophecy that Judas would try to alarm or TRIUMPH OVER Jesus (Psalm 41).  He is called the son of Perdition or a form of Apollon.



   Now Libanius61 was a heathen expecting victory and bearing in mind the threats of Julian, so one day, in ridicule of our belief he said to the pedagogue, "What is the carpenter's son about now?" Filled with divine grace, he foretold what was shortly to come to pass. "Sophist," said he, "the Creator of all things, whom you in derision call carpenter's son, is making a coffin."62

After a few days the death of the wretch was announced. He was carried out lying in his coffin. The vaunt of his threats was proved vain, and God was glorified.63

 62 The form in the text (glwssokomon) is rejected by Attic purists, but is used twice by St. John, as well as in the Septuagint. In II. Chron. xxiv. 8 (cf. II. Kings xii. 9) it means a chest. In St. John's Gospel xii. 6 and xiii. 29 it is "the bag," properly (xi. 3) "box," which Judas carried. In the Palatine anthology Nicanor the coffin maker makes these "glossokoma" or coffins. Derivatively the word means "tongue-cases," i.e. cases to keep the tongues or reeds of musical instruments. An instance of similar transfer of meaning is our word "coffin;" derivatively a wicker basket; - at one time any case or cover, and in Shakespeare (Titus Andronicus Act V. 2, 189) pie crust. Perhaps "casket," which now still holds many things, may one day only hold a corpse.


We can say nothing about the almost universal use of "music as worship" but we need to refute the notion that Church of Christ BEGAN outlawing the use of what Scripture calls noise when the command is to "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning" or "Scripture for our Comfort."  One is not a LEGALIST for not beginning to impose what is never seen in Scripture or for the first 15 centuries of Church history.

Non instrumentalists may do a legalistic end run by using anxiety or laded burden forms of singing.

Noted Theologians I have emailed with see no problem because THEOLOGY is based on the decisions of church councils:  as they MOCK "Churches of Christ are foggies and historyless."
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 22, 2018 - 10:37:49 by Kenneth Sublett »