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Offline Lukasaurus

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 04:18:58 AM »
I posted a devotion. You haven't read it. Nor have you addressed Paul's vast contrast between law and grace.  You can try to keep the commandments if you like. I am not entering into debate, as foolish fighting only engenders more and more ungodliness. I have responded with my beliefs, and will not be baited.

God bless!

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 04:18:58 AM »

Offline Jimmy

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 06:10:25 AM »
I posted a devotion. You haven't read it. Nor have you addressed Paul's vast contrast between law and grace.  You can try to keep the commandments if you like. I am not entering into debate, as foolish fighting only engenders more and more ungodliness. I have responded with my beliefs, and will not be baited.

God bless!

You are not entering into debate? Then I might wonder why you are here; only to bestow upon us the brilliance of your knowledge and wisdom, perhaps?

As far as the contrast between law and grace, it was always about grace.  Even when, according to Paul, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." .  It was never either or.  It was always grace, with the law being a means to an end.

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 06:10:25 AM »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 07:56:51 AM »
We know that God does hate. In Proverbs he states seven things that he hates. Are any of us guilty of doing the things God hates?

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

If we love God we won't be doing the things he hates. We will desire to be more like him and if we sin we will be sorrowful about it. It's just not something Christians enjoy anymore.

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 07:56:51 AM »

Offline Macrina

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 08:59:48 AM »
Paul made distinctions between the law (Mosaic) and grace because the Messiah had come. Every orthodox Jew, like Paul, knew/knows that when Christ came things would change, although they did not have a clue what that change would be. ie. would the law be abolished, how, then what

Here is a little trivia on what is considered "the law". Personally I believe they are guidelines, not law in the legal sense.
___________________________

Historically, many of the laws that Israel used (10 commandments aside) paralleled, though they were modified, a version of the laws of the land that were in effect in Abraham's time. Those being the "code of Khummarabi" or Babylonian laws. In fact Abraham became royalty according to those laws, which is one of the reasons he could fight with the kings of the land there. Middle easterners still fight about those laws to date, mainly over land issues which those laws also pertained to.

LEVITICUS
Our English title for the book comes to us from the Greek and means "pertaining to the Levites." The priests of Israel came from the tribe of Levi and this book is like a manual for their call and function. The Hebrew title for the book comes from the first word of the book, meaning "And He Called" and emphasizes the theme of God's call to holiness

DEUTERONOMY

The title of the last book of the Pentateuch in the English comes from the Greek Deuteronomion, which means "the second law" or "the repeated law."

The book was given just before they entered Canaan in the 40th year after they had come out of Egypt ( 1:3 ). It was given because many of them had not witnessed the transactions at Mt. Sinai, the former generation having all died except Joshua and Caleb. It was given to impress their hearts with a deep sense of their obligation to God, and to prepare them for the inheritance which God had prepared for them.

While Leviticus was addressed to the spiritual leaders of Israel, Deuteronomy was addressed to the common people for every day guidelines for godliness.

The ordinances of Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers had regulated their nomadic life in the wilderness. Now as they were about to settle down in their own land some adjustments were necessary. This book provides these.

_____________________________

The only question a Christian needs to ask is, do I follow Moses or Jesus. Hopefully the Christian follows Christ.
Jesus did stand on a mountain and give His words to the people just as Moses had, but He gave them a new understanding with the beatitudes.  ::smile::

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 08:59:48 AM »

Offline Lukasaurus

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 01:45:20 PM »


You are not entering into debate? Then I might wonder why you are here; only to bestow upon us the brilliance of your knowledge and wisdom, perhaps?


What am I here for? I shared something that some people might find encouraging - that God has not put them on probation, and they can be free from struggling and fighting with sin through grace, not law.

If you are dispensational, calvinist, arminian or whatever else there is, I posted it for encouragement. Perhaps I should have chosen a different board. I have no intention to "debate"... why would I? Christians argue too much about who is wrong on what and why. I've responded a few times here to clarify, but noone has actually responded to my post, only to my words. Either way, my words are not scripture, so I am not going to debate them, and the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it :)

Grace, not Law, will sanctify, separate and keep one "living right".

God bless :)

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 01:45:20 PM »



Offline Macrina

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 02:09:13 PM »
Lukasaurus, forgive me  ::kissing:: if my post did not uphold what you said in the OP. I meant it to support your topic.

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 02:09:13 PM »

Offline fish153

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 02:15:19 PM »
Quote
They are tribulation saints. Revelation is yet future

The church is gone by Revelation chapter 4. What follows is God dealing with Israel again (the woman is Israel - the 12 stars above her head, cf with Josephs dream) -  The remnant of the woman is the remaining Jews during the tribulation - the mystery of Grace revealed to the Apostle Paul is not in effect here - it is law, enduring to the end of the tribulation, not taking the mark of the beast.

Why do I need a tree of life, when I have the Life of Christ (Col 3:4)

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, right dividing the word of truth.

Not all of the Bible is written to you. There was 4000 years of history before the cross, and there is yet at the very least 1007 years of future.


That's funny, never read the term tribulation saints in the bible.  Nor do any of the verses quoted specify any such thing.  They simply say the saints.  You do know what the book of Revelation says about anyone adding to, or taking away from the words of it, don't you?  You might want to be careful about that.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


So, in the old covenant God wanted them to keep the law, in the new covenant He doesn't want them to keep the law, but during the tribulation which is yet future, He will want them to keep the law again, is that correct?  It all seems nice and convenient for you.  No tribulation for you, and no law for you, but tribulation and law keeping for the poor people that happen to be around during this supposed tribulation time in the future when the privileged "Christians" are gone. 

Remember, it is study to show thyself approved, not study to show thyself what sounds good for you.  Why do you think God keeps waffling with His requirements?




http://tribulationsaints.com/definetribulationsaint.html

Offline Lukasaurus

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 02:29:47 PM »
Macrina :) Don't fret

I was replying to the poster above you :D

Offline ela

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 02:45:31 PM »


You are not entering into debate? Then I might wonder why you are here; only to bestow upon us the brilliance of your knowledge and wisdom, perhaps?


What am I here for? I shared something that some people might find encouraging - that God has not put them on probation, and they can be free from struggling and fighting with sin through grace, not law.

If you are dispensational, calvinist, arminian or whatever else there is, I posted it for encouragement. Perhaps I should have chosen a different board. I have no intention to "debate"... why would I? Christians argue too much about who is wrong on what and why. I've responded a few times here to clarify, but noone has actually responded to my post, only to my words. Either way, my words are not scripture, so I am not going to debate them, and the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it :)

Grace, not Law, will sanctify, separate and keep one "living right".

God bless :)

Thank you Lukasauras!! I appreciate you putting so much in to your post! I know that some think that if you post that you also debate. Well, I thought we were supposed to learn from one another....glean from one another....not argue.

Also, some get hung up on when the word speaks of obeying commandments that it is speaking of the law again...but it is just saying to align oneself with the new commandments = love God and your neighbor as yourself...which fulfill the law!

Thanks again...

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 02:45:31 PM »

Offline Lukasaurus

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 02:49:09 PM »
Amen to that Ela :)

Gal 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15  But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Debating is of the flesh. If I don't agree with someone, well, it depends, I might say I don't agree and give a reason (especially if it is of real importance), but I won't argue anymore.

God bless :)

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 02:49:09 PM »

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2010, 03:00:33 PM »
Debating is of the flesh. If I don't agree with someone, well, it depends, I might say I don't agree and give a reason (especially if it is of real importance), but I won't argue anymore.

God bless :)

Paul tells us to do everything without complaining or arguing so that we may become blameless and pure children of God.

If someone engages you in argument or complaint...you can be sure they are neither blameless or pure.

God Bless Friend...I enjoyed your posts.

Offline Lukasaurus

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2010, 03:13:18 PM »
I'm far from blameless and pure, outside of Jesus Christ. In Him, I am made the righteousness of God :D ::clappingoverhead::

Php 3:9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2010, 03:19:19 PM »
I'm far from blameless and pure, outside of Jesus Christ. In Him, I am made the righteousness of God :D ::clappingoverhead::

Php 3:9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Amen!!!

Offline Jimmy

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2010, 08:03:56 PM »


You are not entering into debate? Then I might wonder why you are here; only to bestow upon us the brilliance of your knowledge and wisdom, perhaps?


What am I here for? I shared something that some people might find encouraging - that God has not put them on probation, and they can be free from struggling and fighting with sin through grace, not law.

If you are dispensational, calvinist, arminian or whatever else there is, I posted it for encouragement. Perhaps I should have chosen a different board. I have no intention to "debate"... why would I? Christians argue too much about who is wrong on what and why. I've responded a few times here to clarify, but noone has actually responded to my post, only to my words. Either way, my words are not scripture, so I am not going to debate them, and the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it :)

Grace, not Law, will sanctify, separate and keep one "living right".

God bless :)

Are you so naive to think that what you believe is what everyone else believes?  Surely not.  Then are you really so arrogant to think that some would not take issue with you on those things that might be controversial?  I would hope not.  However, I think that your statement,  "the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it", just might suggest otherwise.  No one here would think to "debate the Bible" or find that it is not perfect.  However the same certainly can not be said of your interpretation of it.

You said, "I have no intention to "debate"... why would I?"  Could that be a little arrogance and pride showing? 

Offline ela

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Re: On the Law and Christians
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2010, 08:25:19 PM »


You are not entering into debate? Then I might wonder why you are here; only to bestow upon us the brilliance of your knowledge and wisdom, perhaps?


What am I here for? I shared something that some people might find encouraging - that God has not put them on probation, and they can be free from struggling and fighting with sin through grace, not law.

If you are dispensational, calvinist, arminian or whatever else there is, I posted it for encouragement. Perhaps I should have chosen a different board. I have no intention to "debate"... why would I? Christians argue too much about who is wrong on what and why. I've responded a few times here to clarify, but noone has actually responded to my post, only to my words. Either way, my words are not scripture, so I am not going to debate them, and the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it :)

Grace, not Law, will sanctify, separate and keep one "living right".

God bless :)

Are you so naive to think that what you believe is what everyone else believes?  Surely not.  Then are you really so arrogant to think that some would not take issue with you on those things that might be controversial?  I would hope not.  However, I think that your statement,  "the Bible is perfect, so I am not going to debate it", just might suggest otherwise.  No one here would think to "debate the Bible" or find that it is not perfect.  However the same certainly can not be said of your interpretation of it.

Jimmy...u love to dig and find fault and pick fights don't you? Some, whether you can believe it or not, truly do not feel the need to quarrel...as u seem to. He said nothing negative about you...as you have done to him...and he left on a good note too...yet you still want to fight. IS this what Christianity is to you??? What a shame...as u r the one showing arrogance.