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Author Topic: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.  (Read 18075 times)

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Offline howard

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ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 09:59:33 »

The Passover approaches, a day that is to be kept FOREVER according to the word of God.

are you under the Blood?

will you allow the Lord to passover your sins this day? 


Exodus 12:12-14 (King James Version)

 12For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

 13And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

 14And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.[/u]


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ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 09:59:33 »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #1 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:02:26 »
Leviticus 23
 1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. [/b

3Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4These are the feasts of the LORD[/b], even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

 5In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

Notice these are the feast of God and not the Jews which is commonly taught


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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #1 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:02:26 »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #2 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:05:25 »
WHAT THE PASSOVER REPRESENTS

The Passover commemorates the exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt by the hand of the Lord.

Israel had been in captivity in Egypt for over 400 years.

Because of Pharaoh's refusal to release the children of Israel from bondage, God afflicted Egypt with plagues.

The last plague issued was the killing of all the Egyptians first born.

 A death angel was to pass through the land, and to ensure that their first born would be spared, the Israelites were instructed by God, to mark their door posts with the blood of a lamb.

The death angel would see the marking and thus pass over the house that had blood.

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #2 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:05:25 »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #3 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:08:16 »
CHANGE IN THE PASSOVER

While Jesus and His disciples were commemorating the Passover, Jesus gives His disciples a set of instructions.

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Jesus told His disciples to eat of the bread, for that represented His body, and He told them to drink of the cup, for that represented His blood.

Jesus tells them, His blood is of the new testament, and it is shed for the remission of sins. Jesus is speaking of the fact, that He will be crucified for the sins of man and we know that, it is only through the shedding of Jesus’s blood, that men can receive forgiveness for their sins. Hence Jesus became our sacrificial lamb.

We will find in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus told them to partake in this meal in remembrance of Him.


(Luke 22:19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #3 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:08:16 »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:09:38 »
Now Jesus said to do this in remembrance of Him, the above shows that He is speaking in reference to observing the Passover.

 Again the Passover has a set time when it is to be observed , the 14th day of the month of Abib.

 This is the time that God appointed, for its observance.

 It should not be celebrated at the discretion of man.

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:09:38 »



Offline DaveW

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #5 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:25:59 »
Quote
Notice these are the feast of God and not the Jews which is commonly taught
Leviticus 23

Hmmm. I see nothing in that text that says in relation to any of those feasts "Speak to the sons of Egypt..." or "...Moab..." or "...Caanan..."

However, the FIRST one listed there - the Sabbath - it says elsewhere that it is a "...Sign between me and the sons of Israel for an everlasting covenant..."

Near the end of the list we have the Day of Atonement, in which the explaination elsewhere (chapter 16) says it is for the sins of the People of Israel.  

So how does that NOT apply to the entire list? They were given to Israel, not the gentiles.

IN fact, if you study it out you will find out that there are many requirements for a gentile who wants to celebrate Passover.

Ex 12.43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it,

48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.

IOW, only gentiles who "sojourn" in the Jewish community can keep it and they have to undergo a type of conversion (circumcision).

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #5 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:25:59 »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #6 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:32:02 »
Quote
Notice these are the feast of God and not the Jews which is commonly taught
Leviticus 23

Hmmm. I see nothing in that text that says in relation to any of those feasts "Speak to the sons of Egypt..." or "...Moab..." or "...Caanan..."

However, the FIRST one listed there - the Sabbath - it says elsewhere that it is a "...Sign between me and the sons of Israel for an everlasting covenant..."

Near the end of the list we have the Day of Atonement, in which the explaination elsewhere (chapter 16) says it is for the sins of the People of Israel

So how does that NOT apply to the entire list? They were given to Israel, not the gentiles.

in the same chapter where the Lord said he will passover when he see the blood, is the below words concerning the gentiles
or commonly at that time called the stranger 

Exodus 12:

 48And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you

again in the same chapter the gentiles went out with the israelites under the nme of mixed multitude

 Exodus 12:38
And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.



Offline DaveW

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #7 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:49:13 »
Right.  And in those verses you find the text Paul was basing his statement about circumcision:

Gal 5.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

Ex 12.49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you

IOW, you have to be circumcised to eat the Passover.  If you get circ'd you obligate yourself to the WHOLE LAW.

Are you advocating that?

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:53:55 »

fo the sake of not arguing lets fast forward to after the death and resurrection of Jesus and hear the words of Paul concerning what the Gentiles should adhere to

1

 Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


2

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

3

Romans 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:


salvation, good or evil or whatever the matter is it will be upon the Jew first and also the gentile

3 times PAUL said from his own mouth

to the Jew first and also the Gentiles

  

 

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:53:55 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #9 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 10:59:55 »
Those verses are priorities for the gospel, for judgement and reward.

They have nothing to do with the feasts.

ETA:

It occurs to me that I am being somewhat lopsided in my statements here.

I am not saying that gentile christians cannot partake of the Passover.  Indeed I encourage them to do so and have led severaly LARGE seders in churches - one with more than 250 in attendance.

What I am saying is that it was NOT given to the gentiles. By the New Covenant gentiles can participate but there is no requirement for it. I DO take it as requred for gentiles who "soujourn" among the Jews (like myself)  but that is a different issue altogether.

Is it ok to do passover whenever?  I do not think so.  But in your replies #3 and 4 you talked also about communion.  It is true they are tied together and the current practice of communion is a pared-down seder. But in 1 Cor Paul seperates them by disallowing the meal which is at the center of the seder:

1 Cor 11.20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat.
21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk.
22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

So Paul reduced it down to just matzah and wine.   In that way, and since it is not a full seder, it can be celebrated "...as often.." which church tradition has put at weekly.
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 11:13:56 by DaveW »

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #10 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 11:01:39 »
Right.  And in those verses you find the text Paul was basing his statement about circumcision:

Gal 5.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

Ex 12.49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you

IOW, you have to be circumcised to eat the Passover.  If you get circ'd you obligate yourself to the WHOLE LAW.

Are you advocating that?


Dave

the circumcision is a commandments also before the Israelite or Jew came on the scene

you will read and answer your own question from the word of God

Genesis 17

 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.


we have a covenant made with God and Abraham
a covenant is a commandments, a law

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Abraham was not a Israelite nor Jew but the Lord made a covenant with him and his seed and any stranger

 notice the word everlasting covenant

everlasting did not end with Paul writing in Galatians

everlasting is what it means everlasting unless you know when everlasting ends?

    




Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #11 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 11:02:48 »
Those verses are priorities for the gospel, for judgement and reward.

They have nothing to do with the feasts.

Dave the OT is the gospel
the OT speaks of Judgement and reward 

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #12 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 11:05:15 »
thanks for responding Brother

I have to head for work I ope to continue tomorrow morning i was caught up in the problems the site is having I could not get on

It is a pleasure and blessing to be back with you all

hope to talk soon can't wait

peace in Jesus

Offline gospel

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #13 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 12:22:53 »
Now Jesus said to do this in remembrance of Him, the above shows that He is speaking in reference to observing the Passover.

 Again the Passover has a set time when it is to be observed , the 14th day of the month of Abib.

 This is the time that God appointed, for its observance.

 It should not be celebrated at the discretion of man.


Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Colossians 2:16

Notice that the previous verse tells us the reason

He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
 Colossians 2:15

This means one thing...simply put....

The passover is fulfilled in Christ!

It was celebrated by those who did not have the fulness of God's Gospel

But we do

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, Hebrews 1:1

The various ways included feasts, new moons, sabbaths, incense, etc etc all of which were signs, types and shadows pointing to Jesus. Basically God use these things to preach the Gospel in the Old Testament


but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.


Everything God said before Jesus was actually about Jesus

Now Jesus is the only way God speaks to us

He does not speak to us through the same ways He spoke to the Patriarchs and the people of the Old Testament

He speaks to us through Jesus!


A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him."

Luke 9:35

Moses was speaking of Jesus

Elijah was speaking of Jesus

The Law spoke of Jesus

The Prophets spoke of Jesus

But now God wants us to HEAR JESUS...LISTEN TO JESUS!

Now

We have the Blood of Jesus that covers us

We have passed from death to Life because of the Blood of Jesus

Our sins are forgiven and we have been accepted in the Beloved and made the Righteousness of God in Christ

The Feasts were types and shadows of the Truth that is only found in Christ

The feasts have been fulfilled in Jesus!

Jesus is our Passover

Jesus is our Jubilee

We are The Holy Temple

He is the Light in the Holy of Holies, the secret place within us where God abides

I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days--all her appointed feasts.
Hosea 2:11


Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts; the incense of your offerings disgusts me! As for your celebrations of the new moon and the Sabbath and your special days for fasting--they are all sinful and false. I want no more of your pious meetings.
Isaiah 1:13

Offline candy

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #14 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 13:03:20 »
Amen Gospel,  Jesus is the passover and any other of these feasts and "special days."  Thank you for sharing this bold truth with us.  Jesus fulfilled it all and through Him so have we who know Him.
Candy

Offline DaveW

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #15 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 13:03:45 »
Interesting Gospel that you start with a verse saying to not let anyone judge you on celebrations and then you turn around and start judging someone for his celebration.

Offline gospel

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #16 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 15:47:40 »
Interesting Gospel that you start with a verse saying to not let anyone judge you on celebrations and then you turn around and start judging someone for his celebration.


Oh but I am not judging, I'm merely expounding upon the scriptures...it's perfectly fine in my opinion that people celebrate whatever they like,

SO LONG ......

....as they do not insist or assert that we're all supposed to or we all should or something along that order

The feasts and Sabbaths were given for specific purposes as signs so at this point they are only customs and traditions

....and as such harmless as long as they do not hinder the purposes of God or malign His Intent and Purposes toward man

 

Offline Jaime

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #17 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 16:01:51 »
They are GOD's appointed times.

Offline Jaime

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #18 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 16:03:38 »
If any traditions should have any scrutiny, it is man's celebration of Christmas and Easter.

Offline gospel

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #19 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 16:45:56 »
They are GOD's appointed times.

Again....PURPOSE is the paramount concern

God's Purpose, God's Intent, God's reasons .....are all that matter

I'm not saying other people are not allowed to consider other things that matter such as custom and tradition

But I am saying God's Purpose is paramount

Aside from His Purpose....those customs and traditions are for naught and are in vain as it relates to Our Salvation, Our Redemption and Our Relationship with Him

They are fine as long as they are not allowed to blur His Purposes

As the appointed times goes

There is no coincidence that
Jesus was Born on the Appointed time,
Began His Ministry at the appointed time,
went to Jerusalem at the appointed time,
was handed over to the religious leaders at the appointed time,
went to the Cross at the appointed time and
Rose from the Grave ...

ALL of these APPOINTED TIMES of Jesus were a fulfillment of the types and shadows represented by the appointed times given to the Jews and in complete harmony with the Feasts, Sabbaths and Temple Ceremonies which were not the Truth but pointing to the Truth of God's Christ

Jesus is Our Jubilee!
Jesus is our Passover... Jesus is Our Sabbath Rest, just like the real Truth behind Pentecost is the arrival of God's Promise and Gift to men ...His Holy Spirit

Celebrate what you like but I believe that God first and foremost intends for us to
Celebrate Jesus!



« Last Edit: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 16:52:40 by gospel »

Offline Jaime

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #20 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 17:32:22 »
Jesus the bread of life from Bethlehem (house of bread), and was killed on Passover, buried on Feast of Unleavened Bread while the rest if Israel was offering up prayers for life to come out of the earth. Jesus rose on the Feast of First Fruits as people were offering their first fruits and trusting in God to provide the rest. Of course the Holy Spirit came on Shavuot or Pentecost. Some future Rosh Hashana, the Great trumpet will sound at the rapture. Yom Kippur is the Judgement Day, and the Feast of Sukkot foreshadows the millenniel reign of Christ.

Yes the Feasts are pictures of actual events, some fulfilled and some not yet. I have pictures of my wife throughout our house and I don't turn them over when she comes into the room. Pictures function as reminders. We don't need the pictures for salvation but of visual reminders of who he is and what he has done for us, much the same as communion does for us, until we see him face to face. Yes, I'm all for celebrating Christ
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:23:32 by Jaime »

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #21 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 17:39:53 »
Interesting Gospel that you start with a verse saying to not let anyone judge you on celebrations and then you turn around and start judging someone for his celebration.


Oh but I am not judging, I'm merely expounding upon the scriptures...it's perfectly fine in my opinion that people celebrate whatever they like,

SO LONG ......

....as they do not insist or assert that we're all supposed to or we all should or something along that order

The feasts and Sabbaths were given for specific purposes as signs so at this point they are only customs and traditions

....and as such harmless as long as they do not hinder the purposes of God or malign His Intent and Purposes toward man

 

Amen gospel.

Remember what the Pharisees said of Jesus?

"Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.

Offline gospel

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #22 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 17:47:45 »
Jesus the bread of life from Bethlehem (house of bread), and was killed on Passover, buried on Feast of Unleavened Bread while the rest if Israel was offering up prayers for life to come out of the earth. Jesus rose on the Feast of First Fruits as people were offering their first fruits and trusting in God to provide the rest. Of course the Holy Spirit came on Shavuot or Pentecost. Some future Rosh Hashana, the Great trumpet will sound at the rapture. Yom Kippur is the Judgement Day, and the Feast of Sukkot foreshadows the millenniel reign of Christ.

Yes the Frasts are pictures of actual events, some fulfilled and some not yet. I have pictures of my wife throughout our house and I don't tyrn them ovet when she comes into the room. Pictures Function as reminders. We don't need the pictures for salvation but of visual reminders of who he is and what he has done for us, much the same as communion does for us, until we see him face ti face.

Right so ....excellent point, thanks for making it

Pictures are a sign, a reminder of our wives......THEREFORE

We don't give anywhere near the same honor to pictures as we do our actual wives...do we?

We don't talk to them, we don't take them on vacations  except in our wallet maybe

We don't take them out to dinner, sleep with them, make love or have children with pictures do we?

Clearly
I'm stretching the point to say WE DON'T HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH PICTURES!

Pictures represent a moment from the past.... a point in time commemorating an event or a joyous time...correct?

So celebrating the pictures beyond acknowledging those fond memories would be a little over the top would they not?

Would you have a birthday party to celebrate the picture of your wife before she gave birth?

Or would you simply celebrate the child?


Celebrating a picture of a pregnant mother would make our relationship with the child of that pregnancy somewhat in vain

To me the Feasts and Sabbaths are the pregnancy

Jesus is the Birth

The pictures before He was born are nice but those pictures only point to The Risen Christ

Messianic Christians should see the feasts and say WOW!

The awe and focus of the feasts should be toward understanding how God was so faithful and so awesome to give so many signs of what He was planning to do

As a Gentile Christian I am simply awed at how well, how thoroughly, how meticulously, how PERFECTLY God brought about His Sovereign Will and carried out His Plan to Redeem Man and Restore His Kingdom

Offline Jaime

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #23 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 17:58:53 »
Christians should learn about and participate in the Feasts at least as intensley as we participate in Christianized pagan holidays as Christmas and Easter. The Feasts are not to be worshipped but Jesus is IN the Feasts. They are a gold mine of nuggets about HIM. The more I study them, the more I am amazed at our God and our savior.

Yes the signs and pictures God gave his people were amazing. Until I began to read and understand the front of the book, the nack of the book makes so much more sense. My problem had been that I read and thought I understood the back of the book, but when I began studying the front of the book, I was mistakenly conforming the front to my "understanding" of the back of the book. The BIble was intended to be read and umderatood from front to back and definitely NOT back to front as most Christians tend to do.

As I said before, the Feasts are almost endless in the richness of their depth. an endless fountain of Jesus, if you will.
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 21:26:46 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #24 on: Tue Mar 13, 2012 - 18:33:25 »
DaveW, you said the feasts were only for Israel, not gentiles. WE ARE ISRAEL. We were grafted in. The moedim or appointed times were God's not man's.

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #25 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 08:13:42 »
Those verses are priorities for the gospel, for judgement and reward.

They have nothing to do with the feasts.

ETA:

It occurs to me that I am being somewhat lopsided in my statements here.

I am not saying that gentile christians cannot partake of the Passover.  Indeed I encourage them to do so and have led severaly LARGE seders in churches - one with more than 250 in attendance.

What I am saying is that it was NOT given to the gentiles. By the New Covenant gentiles can participate but there is no requirement for it. I DO take it as requred for gentiles who "soujourn" among the Jews (like myself)  but that is a different issue altogether.

Is it ok to do passover whenever?  I do not think so.  But in your replies #3 and 4 you talked also about communion.  It is true they are tied together and the current practice of communion is a pared-down seder. But in 1 Cor Paul seperates them by disallowing the meal which is at the center of the seder:

1 Cor 11.20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat.
21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk.
22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

So Paul reduced it down to just matzah and wine.   In that way, and since it is not a full seder, it can be celebrated "...as often.." which church tradition has put at weekly.


so you really beleive that Jesus will make one group of people keep his laws and the rest of mankind not keep his laws?

what you are showing me in the bible has not proven that God commandments is not for the gentiles.


Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #26 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 08:24:56 »

let me ask all here who have participated in this discussion and any who would also like to respond

The bread and Wine is for all people to particpate in

lets go back to the beginning at the first mentioning of the bread and wine

   Genesis 14:17-19
 17And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.

 18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

 19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:


the bread and wine did not start with Jesus in Matthew,
the bread and wine was around when Jesus was in the name of Melchizdek
we read where Jesus brings it to man(Abraham)
we understand that this Passover institution the bread and wine is old because Jesus(Melchizadek is the Priest of the Most High God (THE FATHER)

what is Abraham lineage?

notice that the custom of bread and wine was around before the Jews.

who do the passover belong to?

we read it, lets read it again
 

Leviticus 23
 1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Offline DaveW

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #27 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 08:33:00 »
DaveW, you said the feasts were only for Israel, not gentiles. WE ARE ISRAEL. We were grafted in. The moedim or appointed times were God's not man's.
And being grafted in, the command is to remember the Lord's death in communion.

As I said above, being in the New Covenant which makes gentiles part of the "commonwealth of Israel" allows one to partake of the seder.

HOWEVER it is NOT REQUIRED, unlike Jews. Celebrating the seder and the week of unleavened bread IS REQUIRED for Jews.

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #28 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 08:46:54 »
[
Quote
color=blue]
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.[/color]
Colossians 2:16

Notice that the previous verse tells us the reason

He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
 Colossians 2:15


the first few words in verse 16 should tell you something, let no man judge you,

Gospel

no man is judging actually you are obeying the words of God.

Lets read it again

Leviticus 23
 1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
 5In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

 6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

 7In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

 8But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

 14And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.


notice the words highlighted forever and generation this lets all of know that the passover is nt fulfilled, because forever is not hear and a generation is born when a child is born


Quote
This means one thing...simply put....

The passover is fulfilled in Christ!

when was it fulfilled?

Quote
It was celebrated by those who did not have the fulness of God's Gospel


where is this written or is this your opinion?

But we do

Quote
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, Hebrews 1:1

The various ways included feasts, new moons, sabbaths, incense, etc etc all of which were signs, types and shadows pointing to Jesus. Basically God use these things to preach the Gospel in the Old Testament


are you saying we have two words of God?

Quote
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.[/color]

Gospel who do you think instructed the Prophets?


Quote
Everything God said before Jesus was actually about Jesus

Now Jesus is the only way God speaks to us

He does not speak to us through the same ways He spoke to the Patriarchs and the people of the Old Testament

He speaks to us through Jesus!


in what method do God speak to us today?

 

Quote

A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him."

Luke 9:35

Moses was speaking of Jesus

Elijah was speaking of Jesus

The Law spoke of Jesus

The Prophets spoke of Jesus

But now God wants us to HEAR JESUS...LISTEN TO JESUS!

how is this done?

you said all the prophets spoke of Jesus who told them about Jesus?

Quote
Now

We have the Blood of Jesus that covers us

We have passed from death to Life because of the Blood of Jesus

do you participate in the passover as the Lord instructed?


Quote
Our sins are forgiven and we have been accepted in the Beloved and made the Righteousness of God in Christ

what sins are forgiven?


Quote
The Feasts were types and shadows of the Truth that is only found in Christ

meaning they are to be kept

Quote
The feasts have been fulfilled in Jesus!

Luke 22:18-20 (King James Version)

 18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


its not fulfilled

the Lord said do in remembrance of him, if you are doing something to remember meaning it must go on after the person is gone.

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #29 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 08:55:24 »
Christians should learn about and participate in the Feasts at least as intensley as we participate in Christianized pagan holidays as Christmas and Easter. The Feasts are not to be worshipped but Jesus is IN the Feasts. They are a gold mine of nuggets about HIM. The more I study them, the more I am amazed at our God and our savior.

Yes the signs and pictures God gave his people were amazing. Until I began to read and understand the front of the book, the nack of the book makes so much more sense. My problem had been that I read and thought I understood the back of the book, but when I began studying the front of the book, I was mistakenly conforming the front to my "understanding" of the back of the book. The Bible was intended to be read and understood from front to back and definitely NOT back to front as most Christians tend to do.

As I said before, the Feasts are almost endless in the richness of their depth. an endless fountain of Jesus, if you will.

its funny Jaime on what your first words of this post is

"Christians should learn about and participate in the Feasts "

last check Jesus is a Jew
last check the definition of christian is a follower of Christ(Jesus)
last check Jesus kept the feast days
last check Jesus kept the commandments
last check Jesus kept the dietary laws
last check Jesus was circumcised
last check Jesus is the passover
last check all the apostles and Prophets including Paul are Israelites who followed Jesus the God of the bible
which make them Christian.

I know you know and understand but for the sake of those who don't please tell me what would these people be called in the chapter below

  1 Corinthians 10
 1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


the Rock that was in the cloud and in the fire that followed Israel was Christ(Jesus)

what do this make the people in the wilderness?

Christians.   




   

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #30 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:03:31 »

The Lord instructed his disciples to go out and teach all nations what he has commanded   


Matthew 28

16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


all nations include

Rome
Greece
Iran
Iraq
Zimbabwe
Russia
etc

what did the Lord command the disciples to do at the Passover




Luke 22
8And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

seems as though the nations are suppose to doing this.

lets look at the gentiles nations in Genesis 10 to make sure they are a nation

Genesis 10
 1Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

 2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

 3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

 4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

 5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

 

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #31 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:05:03 »
Quote
the Rock that was in the cloud and in the fire that followed Israel was Christ(Jesus)

what do this make the people in the wilderness?

Christians.
WRONG.

Quote
what did the Lord command the disciples to do at the Passover

Luke 22
Talk about taking things out of context.

Most of that was specific to that one instance. 

Or do we have a betrayor at every meal? Do we have to follow a guy carrying around a pitcher of water to find the place to eat?

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #32 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:11:05 »

as far as Colossians 2 go back and reread it because Paul is talking about judging, a law that is against us tradition of man ,  philosophy vain deceit a man being beguiled.

no where does Paul speak of that the feast days are done away with, or the Lord has fulfilled them

this is erroneous teaching by the church and there pastors

go back and read the chapter
 
 

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #33 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:16:52 »
Quote
the Rock that was in the cloud and in the fire that followed Israel was Christ(Jesus)

what do this make the people in the wilderness?

Christians.
WRONG.

Quote
what did the Lord command the disciples to do at the Passover

Luke 22
Talk about taking things out of context.

Most of that was specific to that one instance. 

Or do we have a betrayor at every meal? Do we have to follow a guy carrying around a pitcher of water to find the place to eat?

where is it wrong at?  its easy to say wrong but show your proof.

another thing stop trying to read God's word in context try reading yi the way he commanded us to

he had it written twice

Isaiah 28:

 9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:


and for those who don't understand this method try the same method written differently

 2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


according to the Paul the people in wilderness followed the cloud by day and fire by night and that rock who was in the cloud was Christ (Jesus)

where is the wrong at?

who was in the cloud?
who was in the wilderness?
who led Israel by cloud and fire?


 

Offline howard

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Re: ON THE passover, when I see the blood, I will passover you.
« Reply #34 on: Wed Mar 14, 2012 - 09:22:07 »

lets understand that Israelites where christians also

lets read line upon line precept upon precept

notice the the Lord in the cloud by day and fire by night went before Israel

Deuteronomy 1

 32Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

 33Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

again we read
Exodus 13:21-22 (King James Version)

 21And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

 22He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.


before means ahead, leading, in front

Now lets look again at these Christians following the one in the cloud according to Paul

   
  1 Corinthians 10
 1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.