Author Topic: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?  (Read 5798 times)

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Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #245 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 01:28:56 »
Adolf hitler loved his mother and father  . Honoured him and her so it would go well for him.

I don’t know if he did or not .....just sayin

So now this one righteous act saves him ? Christ didn’t have to die at all

He is now righteous before God.

Come on.

If that’s the case,  let’s keep the gospel a secret and not tell people about Christ ....and hope people at least do 1 commandment right. Just 1. Because then they will be judged righteous . All will be saved outside of Christ.


Because if we taught Christ and they reject him .....now what?

It just doesn’t add up.


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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #245 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 01:28:56 »

Offline RB

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #246 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 03:35:53 »
I am not righteous.  He has made me righteous or right before God, in him, Christ Jesus.  My righteous works will not give me treasures in heaven. I can't worship him 24/7 and love my neighbour's like my self 24/7. I can't do righteous works 24/7
Mark you are being honest and truthful~ no man can, but it's more than that, EVEN when we do WHAT GOD COMMANDS, sin "IS" STILL present, and all honest believers will confess this is so, if he does not, then he is not a believer of Jesus Christ, he's a liar and the truth is not in him.
Quote from: Righteous John
1st John 1:8~"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
This is the very truth that so grieved Paul in Romans 7.
Quote
Romans 7:17,18~"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
"to perform that which is good I find not'~To perform that which is good~meaning the law of God in PERFECTION he could not find IN HIS FLESH, or old man!
Quote from: Bemark on: Yesterday at 16:57:14
I can't worship him 24/7 and love my neighbor's like my self 24/7. I can't do righteous works 24/7
Brother, you are 100% correct as far as in its perfection, no man can get even close, only one did it in its perfection and his name was JESUS CHRIST the Son of the Living God and he is now highly exalted to God's right hand HIGH ABOVE ALL where he should be~even though others think they should be there IN THEIR FLESH.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 03:43:42 by RB »

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #247 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 03:47:38 »
RB I agree with you.
You bring it together with the word.  When we are real about ourselves, like Paul was. like you said it above,  then we know it’s him , and it’s always been him, his righteousness 

He brings us down into the valley so we can see, so our faith in ourselves is truely broken. We see what Paul sore in himself. Not much. I bet his faith levels in himself was now crushed by the master. Lol





Thankyou RB .

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #247 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 03:47:38 »

Offline RB

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #248 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:17:58 »
RB, the Levitical law was not given to the people of Israel. Abraham wasn't following it. That's what the writer's of the New Testament are trying to say. The Levitical law was not the Law of Abraham's God. It wasn't the word of Israel's God, and the people who followed it were not Abraham's children. Abraham's God did not demand animal sacrifices let alone human sacrifices. These are the demands of pagan gods.
Bel, I'm jumping off of this merry-go-round as soon as I give you a brief word or two about what you posted. Sir, you weary yourself and others in the fabrication of subtleties; but it is God's children business, as I have often shown, to cultivate sobriety and honested in interpreting God's word.

To say that the Levitical law was not given to Israel puts the burden on people like YOU to tell us TO WHOM was the book of Levitical written to~Eypyt, China, India? As far as:
Quote from: Bel bel on: Sun Sep 27, 2020 - 15:32:27
Abraham's God did not demand animal sacrifices
What book do you read from that said it is the WORD OF GOD, surely not Bible as we know it? if so, then all you are doing is showing all just how blind you are! Not only did God command Abraham to offer animal sacrifices God himself killed an animal and cloth our first parent~and then Abel who was righteous did the same. Gensis 3:21; Genesis 4:4; Genesis 15:9 NOT that he took pleasure in them for he DID NOT~ yet, there was a NO better way of causing them to SEE that only death of an innocent sacrifice could atone for their sin. So much more could be provided, but enough to show you are one very confused person.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:23:46 by RB »

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #248 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:17:58 »
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Offline RB

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #249 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:46:19 »
Do YOU love God with all your heart mind and soul, and do YOU love others as yourself, or did Jesus do these things for you because you are incapable of doing so? If the answer yes to the first two questions then you are righteous before God. And yes, loving your neighbor as yourself involves good works. "A good man out of the treasure of his heart brings forth good things."
Bel, I'm going to lend a helping hand to my brother Mark as his older brother in the faith. I'm my brother's keeper from wolves and dogs, with two legs.

Every child of God SHOULD labor to keep the two main commandments of Loving God and our neighbors as ourselves~ which as we know, SUMMS up God's commandments to us. Yet in doing so, sin IS PRESENT, meaning that our flesh keeps us from PERFECTLY obeying the word of God~I am speaking of born again children of God, the world has NO DESIRE to even retain God in their thoughts, so they are NOT even under consideration in this post.

Even in obeying, PRIDE is present; even in obeying, hatred is present; even in obeying, we fight every known sin under heaven in greater or lesser degree, to ALMOST no degree!  Sin is PRESENT IN our wicked flesh that is passed down to us from Adam. To deny this is to deny so many cardinal truths of the holy scriptures. Though we CAN BE subject to the law of GOd, we cannot render righteousness without our best righteousness being mixed with sin, IMPOSSIBLE. It so grieves us, but it is so!
Quote from: Bel on: Yesterday at 14:18:27
did Jesus do these things for you because you are incapable of doing so?
You better believe that he DID, or else you have NO hope of eternal life, NONE WHATSOEVER!
Quote from: Paul's hope of DELIVERANCE
Romans 7:24,25~"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:48:39 by RB »

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #249 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 04:46:19 »



bel

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #250 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 22:32:47 »
What book do you read from that said it is the WORD OF GOD, surely not Bible as we know it? if so, then all you are doing is showing all just how blind you are! Not only did God command Abraham to offer animal sacrifices God himself killed an animal and cloth our first parent~and then Abel who was righteous did the same. Gensis 3:21; Genesis 4:4; Genesis 15:9 NOT that he took pleasure in them for he DID NOT~ yet, there was a NO better way of causing them to SEE that only death of an innocent sacrifice could atone for their sin. So much more could be provided, but enough to show you are one very confused person.

RB, I believe this may be a topic for another thread, but I will quickly respond to your post here.

Isaiah 1: 11-15 "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me? I have had enough of of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs and goats. When you come to appear before Me, WHO has required this from your hand, to trample My courts.Bring no more futile sacrifices.............."

As Elijah said: "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God , follow him. But if Baal is God , follow him.

You're saying that God is commanding people to do things that he despises. ??  I don't think I'm the one that's confused here.

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #250 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 22:32:47 »

bel

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #251 on: Tue Sep 29, 2020 - 22:41:02 »
Bel, I'm going to lend a helping hand to my brother Mark as his older brother in the faith. I'm my brother's keeper from wolves and dogs, with two legs.

Even in obeying, PRIDE is present; even in obeying, hatred is present; even in obeying, we fight every known sin under heaven in greater or lesser degree, to ALMOST no degree! 

Then I suggest you put away your pride and your hatred. " No one can serve two masters."

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #252 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 02:15:06 »
Bel I want to show you something

We know that God says don’t kill.

But then he commanads man to kill. Not only man, but women and children cattle etc. he also,wiped out nearly all in the flood and will the next with fire.

Look at what God held above scarifices . It was obedience.

Obedience TO KILL man women and children. Animals. Slaughter the lot.
1 Samuel
New King James Version
Saul Spares King Agag

15 Samuel also said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack[a] Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

4 So Saul gathered the people together and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men of Judah. 5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and lay in wait in the valley.

6 Then Saul said to the Kenites, “Go, depart, get down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them. For you showed kindness to all the children of Israel when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites. 7 And Saul attacked the Amalekites, from Havilah all the way to Shur, which is east of Egypt. 8 He also took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were unwilling to utterly destroy them. But everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed.

Saul Rejected as King

10 Now the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, 11 “I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments.” And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the Lord all night. 12 So when Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul, it was told Samuel, saying, “Saul went to Carmel, and indeed, he set up a monument for himself; and he has gone on around, passed by, and gone down to Gilgal.” 13 Then Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, “Blessed are you of the Lord! I have performed the commandment of the Lord.”

14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?”

15 And Saul said, “They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the Lord your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.”

16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Be quiet! And I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”

And he said to him, “Speak on.”

17 So Samuel said, “When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the Lord anoint you king over Israel? 18 Now the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.’ 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord? Why did you swoop down on the [c]spoil, and do evil in the sight of the Lord?”

20 And Saul said to Samuel, “But I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and gone on the mission on which the Lord sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the Lord your God in Gilgal.”

22 So Samuel said:

“Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the Lord?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of [d]witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He also has rejected you from being king.”

Makes you wonder dosent it . What did the little babies do? And the animals?

God is just and righteous IN ALL THAT HE DOES.

His ways are higher than ours.
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 02:25:35 by Bemark »

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #253 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 02:16:21 »
I don’t know why it gets highlighted like it does when I cut and paste. I never ment it to be that way.

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #253 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 02:16:21 »

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #254 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 02:38:39 »
He is a good father

Offline RB

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #255 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 05:17:57 »
RB, I believe this may be a topic for another thread, but I will quickly respond to your post here.
You brought the subject up and I only proved you do not know what you are talking about, so you want to drop it like a hot potato! You do not think I do not see through this, and others do as well. But, at least you are wise enough to run for the hills when you see you have been exposed as a fraud by SCRIPTURES you cannot refute.
Quote from: bel on: Yesterday at 22:32:47
RB, I believe this may be a topic for another thread, but I will quickly respond to your post here.
So, set that error of yours ASIDE as though you did not say it, and move on to another lie~because you MUST still try to push forward your false doctrine.
Quote
Isaiah 1: 11-15 "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me? I have had enough of of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs and goats. When you come to appear before Me, WHO has required this from your hand, to trample My courts.Bring no more futile sacrifices.............."
Their sin was NOT in the multitude of their offerings, it was in the MANNER in which they were done! SIN ruled in their hearts both toward God and their neighbors while they did what God ordained to be done! They did not keep their hearts with all diligence as commanded, above ALL of their other commandments. Keeping our hearts is MUCH GREATER evidence of true faith than going through the motions of religious duties! This is what God is condemning in the scriptures you have put forth. Sacrifices were part of Israel's outward worship~God's seeks those who worship him in spirit and truth. God wants our hearts pure before him which alone is what constitutes TRUE religion and undefiled before God. Just as Jesus said here:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 23:23~“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”
Same thing we are saying to you concerning animal sacrifices in the OT. So, again you use scriptures out of context, or you just refuse to address them.
Quote from: Poor Bel on: Yesterday at 22:32:47
I don't think I'm the one that's confused here.
I'm sure you do not think so~that's called DECEPTION.
 

Offline 4WD

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #256 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 07:14:55 »
RB, bel (and GB) believes that all of the laws, the rituals, and the rules and regulations given in the Torah, except the Ten Commandments, were issued by men not by God.  So long as he believes such nonsense, he cannot understand and believe much of anything you say.  His mistaken beliefs about the OT laws results in his lack of understanding of most of the NT.  There is simply no way he can be so wrong about what God says in the OT and understand what God says in the NT. Since he doesn't understand atonement in the OT, there is no way for him to understand atonement in the NT. 

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #257 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 17:40:50 »
Jarrod, if you don't have the grace of God, as in goodwill towards men, being kind and gracious,loving, forgiving etc.etc. are you saved?
I'm having a hard time comprehending the question.  Generic answer...

The Bible says that God's grace (not ours) is the reason that anybody-at-all is ever regenerated.  This is the "why" of salvation.

Faith is the means by which that salvation is effected.  Faith is the "how" of salvation.

Did that answer the question?

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #258 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 17:52:31 »
Adolf hitler loved his mother and father  . Honoured him and her so it would go well for him.

I don’t know if he did or not .....just sayin

So now this one righteous act saves him ? Christ didn’t have to die at all

He is now righteous before God.

Come on.

If that’s the case,  let’s keep the gospel a secret and not tell people about Christ ....and hope people at least do 1 commandment right. Just 1. Because then they will be judged righteous . All will be saved outside of Christ.

Because if we taught Christ and they reject him .....now what?

It just doesn’t add up.
I guess this couldn't end without someone bringing Hitler into it.  ::noworries::

Mark,

This commandment doesn't work this way.  "Honor" means financial support within this verse (yay more jargon).  The commandment is this - financially support your folks when they're old.  And the reward?  Long life - because when you're old you're financially supported by your own kids.

As an individual, adhering to the command doesn't do anything for you.  As part of a family who transmits this as part of their system of values, generation to generation... it ensures that everyone is cared for in old age.

Jarrod

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #259 on: Wed Sep 30, 2020 - 23:58:43 »
I guess this couldn't end without someone bringing Hitler into it.  ::noworries::

Mark,

This commandment doesn't work this way.  "Honor" means financial support within this verse (yay more jargon).  The commandment is this - financially support your folks when they're old.  And the reward?  Long life - because when you're old you're financially supported by your own kids.

As an individual, adhering to the command doesn't do anything for you.  As part of a family who transmits this as part of their system of values, generation to generation... it ensures that everyone is cared for in old age.

Jarrod
Wow W.S . I did not know that. I heard my parents ....well my mother say it sometimes in the way that I explained it, maybe even in church.

Bless you my brother. :). I love being schooled by some of the best

Offline Bemark

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #260 on: Thu Oct 01, 2020 - 00:00:55 »
There was no mention of hitler.

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #261 on: Thu Oct 01, 2020 - 09:36:34 »
So now this one righteous act saves him ? Christ didn’t have to die at all
He is now righteous before God.
That and $5 will buy you a cup of coffee.

Sinful or not does NOT determine salvation.  That is determined by Covenant.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Our faith, or Christ's faith accounted for us as righteousness?
« Reply #262 on: Thu Oct 01, 2020 - 10:13:22 »
That and $5 will buy you a cup of coffee.
That inflation, though.  rofl rofl

 

     
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