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Author Topic: Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"  (Read 29381 times)

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Offline Cross Reference

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Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"
« on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 05:22:03 »
With those words, Paul sets himself up as a role model, a testimony of the life of the Son of God in his soul. We know Paul was not Christ and yet he said, "follow me". What made him so sure of his claim of intimacy with the Father and that we must make the same claim?




(edited by mod to correct typo in title)
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 18:44:59 by James. »

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Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"
« on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 05:22:03 »

Offline candy

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 05:53:13 »
Jesus chose Paul.  Look at Acts 9:3-6.  Jesus appointed Paul to do His mission on earth.  Also look at Acts 9:15-16.  Paul is the person Jesus chose.  If he's good enough for our Lord Jesus, he's certainly good enough for us.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 05:53:13 »

Offline Elaine

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 06:26:36 »
I don't know... ::eatingpopcorn:

But I'm going to Acts 9....

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 06:26:36 »

Offline Serenity432001

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 06:56:51 »
With those words, Paul set himself up as a role model, a testimony of the life of the Son of God in his soul. We know Paul was not Christ and yet he said, "follow me". What made him so sure of his claim of intimacy with the Father and that we must make the same claim?


Love, Service and Grace

Paul got this so he was confindent in saying "follow me as I follow Christ" which anytime we follow any man it better be as they follow Christ which is to love and serve.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 06:56:51 »

Offline jiggyfly

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 08:23:20 »
I think the key point of this phrase is "as I follow Christ". But we must each know Christ in order to discern who is following Christ, and this is confirmed and taught by HolySpirit. Christ was a servant to everyone so anyone following Him would also be a servant to everyone and not the other way around.

With this in mind just look at much of what goes on within the christian religious institution with so many serving their "spiritual leaders". Very contrary to God's kingdom.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 08:23:20 »



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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 10:36:38 »

Dear Cross Reference, when God gave Paul his commission, all of it was revealed by Jesus in Galatians 1:12. We also read in Colossians 1:26 that the message was something that had been hid from previous generations. Why was Paul somewhat of a test pilot of these things? To show they worked in the life of a man, and we're told in Romans 2:16 we will be judged by that gospel given Paul. Should we follow Paul as he followed Christ? You bet. We couldn't follow Jesus as He went to die for the world, but we can follow Paul as an example of what a Christian life is to be.

In Jesus' name - larry2

« Last Edit: Thu Jun 25, 2009 - 15:46:55 by larry2 »

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 10:36:38 »

Offline candy

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #6 on: Sat Jun 06, 2009 - 12:30:36 »
Well said, Larry.  We all should follow Paul as he followed Jesus.

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 07:59:53 »
I think the key point of this phrase is "as I follow Christ". But we must each know Christ in order to discern who is following Christ, and this is confirmed and taught by HolySpirit. Christ was a servant to everyone so anyone following Him would also be a servant to everyone and not the other way around.

With this in mind just look at much of what goes on within the christian religious institution with so many serving their "spiritual leaders". Very contrary to God's kingdom.

Absolutely! Amen!

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 08:12:35 »

Dear Cross Reference, when God gave Paul his commission, all of it was revealed by Jesus in Galatians 1:12. We also read in Colossians 1:26 that the message was something that had been hid from previous generations. Why was Paul somewhat of a test pilot of these things? To show they worked in the life of a man, and we're told in Romans 2:16 we will be judged by that gospel given Paul. Should we follow Paul as he followed Christ? You bet. We couldn't follow Jesus as He went to die for the world, but we can follow Paul as an example of what a Christian life is to be.

In Jesus' name - larry2

 

Amen Larry however, Paul followed Jesus as we must also follow Jesus. The thing is missing to our understanding is that Jesus taught the "way" of the cross, i.e., the cross principle that was purposed for Adam. As Chambers has it: "giving up my claim to myself? He did that. Paul did that. We must do that, even unto death on cross or get our head lobbed off.

Having said that, The "Work" of the cross, that only Jesus could perform and not Paul, enabled Paul in his following Jesus, even unto his death. We, who are truly born again from above, coupled with Pentecost, the unction to function have been enabled as well.

I believe with all my heart that if the Lord tarries, our allegiance to Christ Jesus will be put a test.
 

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 08:12:35 »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 08:27:56 »
With those words, Paul sets himself up as a role model, a testimony of the life of the Son of God in his soul. We know Paul was not Christ and yet he said, "follow me". What made him so sure of his claim of intimacy with the Father and that we must make the same claim?


Paul was a chosen vessel as seen in these scriptures:

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Acts 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.


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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #10 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 08:34:21 »
The same Paul said he could not do the good he wanted to do and was unable to refrain from sin even though he wanted to.  ( God is able to used a damaged vessel)

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #11 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 08:53:20 »
The same Paul said he could not do the good he wanted to do and was unable to refrain from sin even though he wanted to.  ( God is able to used a damaged vessel)

"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."
Romans 7:19 (KJV)

Is "evil", "sin"? Or is evil the law of the flesh? Is not flesh, the "evil" of it, to be brought under subjection? Certainly it  is not "sin" that can be, correct? However, when "evil" is disallowed, is not sin prevented?

Here:

 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Corinthians 9:27 (KJV)

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #12 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 09:58:06 »
Quote
We couldn't follow Jesus as He went to die for the world, but we can follow Paul as an example of what a Christian life is to be.

I will have to disagree with the above statement.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The whole purpose of the Christian is to follow their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  This includes first and foremost, into His death.  Where it ended for Him, it must begin for us.  What is baptism, but our public confession that we want to die to ourselves, be buried with Christ, and be resurrected as a new creature in Christ Jesus. 

Are we not the body of Christ?  What is the purpose of the body of Christ?  Did not Christ die for the salvation of all humanity?  What else will the body of Christ do, but enter into the same experience.  That is, to sacrifice all of self, to the service of Christ, which is the service of the salvation of humanity.  Will we follow Him by the sacrifice of our own plans and desires of the flesh, replacing them with His desires of the Spirit for the salvation of humanity or not?  This is the question, are we truly the body of Christ or not?

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Matt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

It is clear from the scriptures, that those who are not willing to enter our Lord's death, will not either receive His life.  To enter his death, is to enter into His service for the salvation of humanity.  The old saying is true, if you are not a part of the solution, then you are simply part of the problem.









Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #13 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 10:18:01 »
 
Quote
It is clear from the scriptures, that those who are not willing to enter our Lord's death, will not either receive His life.  To enter his death, is to enter into His service for the salvation of humanity.  The old saying is true, if you are not a part of the solution, then you are simply part of the problem.

Easy with that one, Bro. Though I can certainly agree with most of your post, you come to a different conclusion to the matter;  the purpose of the cross principle that when understood to be the grooming process of sonship in the Holy Spirit,  Jesus spent 3 + plus years teaching. Then He made available to us the power to live it out as He did, by going to the cross and bringing about a restoration Adam enjoyed before he transgressed. Jesus Christ the Author and finisher of our salvation . . . and all the Father intended for Adam. . . . ::clappingoverhead::









[/quote]

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #14 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 13:38:06 »
In context Paul is talking about sin not just his inability to keep the rituals of the law but the righeousness of the tha law. (morality)
Struggling With Sin
 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

If Paul could follow Christ perfectly (not sin)  ther would be no need for Christ.  He was saying follow me as or when I follow Christ.  He then pointed out that try as he may he could not be a perfect example like Christ.
 14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
      So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

If Paul could follow Christ perfectly (without sin) there would be no need for Christ.  He was saying follow me as (or when) I follow Christ.  Then in Rom. 7 he admitts that he is not capible of living without sin.
 
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 13:44:07 by Johnb »

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #15 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 15:06:42 »
 

If Paul could follow Christ perfectly (not sin)  ther would be no need for Christ.  He was saying follow me as or when I follow Christ.  He then pointed out that try as he may he could not be a perfect example like Christ.
 

Not so, Bro. There remains in all this the the issue of canceling out the penalty of Adam's transgression regardless of how righteous Paul could have lived his life or follow Christ. In that is the explanation for Romans 3.10.What righteousness any could possibly have was still as filthy rags compared to that which was needed to reconcile him the God. Only Jesus qualified in that regard. In that he provided  such a righteousness opens the door for anyone who come after Him to sup with Him to become as He is.That is the reason for Jesus Christ. . . ::smile::

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #16 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 15:21:22 »
Quote
We couldn't follow Jesus as He went to die for the world, but we can follow Paul as an example of what a Christian life is to be.

I will have to disagree with the above statement.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The whole purpose of the Christian is to follow their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  This includes first and foremost, into His death.  Where it ended for Him, it must begin for us.  What is baptism, but our public confession that we want to die to ourselves, be buried with Christ, and be resurrected as a new creature in Christ Jesus. 

Are we not the body of Christ?  What is the purpose of the body of Christ?  Did not Christ die for the salvation of all humanity?  What else will the body of Christ do, but enter into the same experience.  That is, to sacrifice all of self, to the service of Christ, which is the service of the salvation of humanity.  Will we follow Him by the sacrifice of our own plans and desires of the flesh, replacing them with His desires of the Spirit for the salvation of humanity or not?  This is the question, are we truly the body of Christ or not?

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Matt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

It is clear from the scriptures, that those who are not willing to enter our Lord's death, will not either receive His life.  To enter his death, is to enter into His service for the salvation of humanity.  The old saying is true, if you are not a part of the solution, then you are simply part of the problem.











amen and amen!

Online Johnb

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #17 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 15:52:07 »
If a man could have kept the law perfectly there would be no need for Christ sacrifice.  Paul was not sinless before or after his conversion.  To declare otherwise is to misunderstand the need for grace.  (unmerited favor)

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #18 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 15:57:45 »
If a man could have kept the law perfectly there would be no need for Christ sacrifice.  Paul was not sinless before or after his conversion.  To declare otherwise is to misunderstand the need for grace.  (unmerited favor)

Sorry, The transgression could be erased by only sinless human blood.
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 16:38:17 by Cross Reference »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #19 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 16:17:18 »
If a man could have kept the law perfectly there would be no need for Christ sacrifice.  Paul was not sinless before or after his conversion.  To declare otherwise is to misunderstand the need for grace.  (unmerited favor)

Or maybe it's about misunderstanding Grace.

Paul knew how and what to fight sin with.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #20 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 18:12:38 »
If a man could have kept the law perfectly there would be no need for Christ sacrifice.  Paul was not sinless before or after his conversion.  To declare otherwise is to misunderstand the need for grace.  (unmerited favor)

Sorry, The transgression could be erased by only sinless human blood.


If they kept the law perfectly as Christ did there is no transgression therefore no sin.  It was because we could not keep the law (trangressed the law, broke the law) that we needed an attonment for or sins ie transgressions.  Perhaps a dictioary English or Greek would help you to understand what transgression is.

Paul was a great man an Apostle a Christian but he was not sinless nor is any man sinless save the Savior of the world Jesus Christ.

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #21 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 18:36:28 »
If a man could have kept the law perfectly there would be no need for Christ sacrifice.  Paul was not sinless before or after his conversion.  To declare otherwise is to misunderstand the need for grace.  (unmerited favor)

Sorry, The transgression could be erased by only sinless human blood.


If they kept the law perfectly as Christ did there is no transgression therefore no sin.  It was because we could not keep the law (trangressed the law, broke the law) that we needed an attonment for or sins ie transgressions.  Perhaps a dictioary English or Greek would help you to understand what transgression is.

Paul was a great man an Apostle a Christian but he was not sinless nor is any man sinless save the Savior of the world Jesus Christ.

That simply is not true nor worthy of debate between two Christians.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #22 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 18:39:09 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #23 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 19:44:14 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

If this is for me, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying Paul used Grace to fight sin by walking in the spirit. He was determined to serve God and not let the lusts of the flesh get the better of him by coming out from among the world.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #24 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 20:06:57 »
Bonnie that question was for CR.  I have had enough discussions with you that I knew that was not your view. 

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #25 on: Sun Jun 07, 2009 - 20:51:11 »
Bonnie that question was for CR.  I have had enough discussions with you that I knew that was not your view. 

 ::tippinghat::

Amo

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #26 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 06:43:14 »
Quote
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

Christ is the only human that ever lived without sin, and the only one this side of heaven that will live without sin.  However, He has offered to live within us through the indwelling of His Holy Spirit.  If we are willing to enter into his death, then He will be willing to enter into our lives.  Thus, if we do no sin, it is not us, but Christ in us.  There is no glory for man in the gospel of Jesus Christ.  All glory goes to God in and through His Son Jesus Christ.  Christ is our righteousness, for we have none of our own.  This is the exchange of the gospel, His life for ours.  Behold the LAMB of God.  It is by beholding that we become changed into His image.

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #27 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 07:12:22 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?
Sure. Why not? Is not Jesus coming again for a bride without spot or wrinkle? Obviously, the truly born again  can attain a sinless life and are called and equipped, by the Pentecostal experience, to do so and more.  The OT is repleat with folk who led sinless lives and had only the promise to spur them on.

Striving to overcome our old dispositions is what following Christ is all about?  Why shouldn't we be able considering the very Nature of God indwells us and should be upon us as it did Jesus experienced? All of this only points up our not understanding the great commandment and what it affords us when we embrace it.

Adam had communion with God and violated it. Jesus restores that communion and for many of those to whom it is restored, live in the violation of it believing: "It really doesn't matter because I have Jesus, I can't lose my salvation". Really? Him who thinks he stands should take heed lest he fall by that false understanding of God's word. '2 cor.10.12]

The new born of Christ WERE sinners saved by grace bur are now saints who should be learning not to sin to become faithful in Christ Jesus. Eph.1.1 KJV

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #28 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 07:17:26 »
That's a couple of posts full of understanding. Thanks, guys!
The world just needs more of it.

BornToReign

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #29 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 09:23:39 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

Sure. Why not? Is not Jesus coming again for a bride without spot or wrinkle?


Part of your troubled conclusion is your confusion about who the bride is.

"Let us rejoice and be glad and give glory to Him, for the marrage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." -Rev.19:7

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. -Rev.21:2

"Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." and he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like very costly stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper. -Rev.21:9-11

And the Spirit and the bride say, "come" and let the one who hears say, "come" and let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes to take the water of life without cost. Rev.22:17

Offline Cross Reference

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #30 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 09:56:36 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

Sure. Why not? Is not Jesus coming again for a bride without spot or wrinkle?


Part of your troubled conclusion is your confusion about who the bride is.

"Let us rejoice and be glad and give glory to Him, for the marrage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." -Rev.19:7

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. -Rev.21:2

"Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." and he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like very costly stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper. -Rev.21:9-11

And the Spirit and the bride say, "come" and let the one who hears say, "come" and let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes to take the water of life without cost. Rev.22:17


Not hardly is it my confusion but yours. Review the scripture you posted and by them make better distinctions. . . . . ::juggle::

BornToReign

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #31 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 12:47:48 »
I am truely trying to understand what you are saying.  Are you saying Paul or any Christian can live without sin?

Sure. Why not? Is not Jesus coming again for a bride without spot or wrinkle?


Part of your troubled conclusion is your confusion about who the bride is.

"Let us rejoice and be glad and give glory to Him, for the marrage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." -Rev.19:7

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. -Rev.21:2

"Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." and he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like very costly stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper. -Rev.21:9-11

And the Spirit and the bride say, "come" and let the one who hears say, "come" and let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes to take the water of life without cost. Rev.22:17


Not hardly is it my confusion but yours. Review the scripture you posted and by them make better distinctions. . . . . ::juggle::

Gods word has already made the distinction for me, pretty plainly at that :
"Come here and I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
'and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God."
for more in depth description of the bride see Rev. 21:9-27




« Last Edit: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 13:02:53 by BornToReign »

Online Johnb

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #32 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 13:50:18 »
CR
So you are saying that when we become Christians and Christ (even though the promise is the HS) dwells in us then we are incapable of sin?

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #33 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 13:57:22 »
CR
So you are saying that when we become Christians and Christ (even though the promise is the HS) dwells in us then we are incapable of sin?

If one who, after being born again, is learning how not to sin; to be a saint, how come you wish me to be  saying that?

Online Johnb

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Re: Paul said "follow me as I folow Christ"
« Reply #34 on: Mon Jun 08, 2009 - 18:05:14 »
I don't wish you to be saying anything.  I was asking if that was your belief.   I ask because  you seem to be saying Paul lived without sin.  I am simply trying understand exactly what you are saying.  I am not trying to tell you what you believe but am asking.