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Author Topic: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline ellisadam

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Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« on: March 06, 2006, 02:40:47 PM »
Which statement most closely represents your thinking?  Please explain your answer.  This poll is sort of based on a conversation under in Book Reviews.
AE

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Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« on: March 06, 2006, 02:40:47 PM »

Offline Arkstfan

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 02:48:46 PM »
Modernism and postmodernism are both flawed and one can sit around grousing about their flaws until the cows come home. The model one ought to look at is the Apostle Paul who engaged Greeks using their own system of reasoning and Jews using scripture.

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 02:48:46 PM »

Offline kanham

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 03:29:00 PM »
I voted that both are fundamentally flawed, something I read in Genesis seems to guarantee such, but we must engage our culture. With that said I think it is just as important to understand the need to engage the Modern culture, a lot of people fit that category today and are being ran over by those who want to engage culture.

There is still a modern culture that needs engaged. If PM people want people to tolerate and give up their modernity they should also be willing to give up their post modernity.

Let’s see that happen.

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 03:29:00 PM »

boringoldguy

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Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 03:44:16 PM »
I didn't vote because nobody has yet explained to me what post-modernism is.
It seems to me, however,  that the refusal to commit to anything, even a definition,  is an indication that whatever it is,  it won't serve Christians particularly well.

As far as this \"engaging the culture\" business goes,  I think it's mostly just a cop-out.  (I know,  I'm dating myself.)     Our business as Christians is to be witnesses and will quite frequently involve us in challenging our culture.   But I don't really see any of that going on.    What I've seen in the name of post-modernism is mostly compromise and conciliation and \"accepting\" things and being \"open.\"

(Edited to continue my rant)

In particular,  as best I can tell,  \"engaging the culture\"  mostly seems to mean some combination of the following:

1.   Getting a tatoo;
2.   Getting some piece of metal stuck in my face;
3.   Dressing like a slob;
4.   Going to movies that celebrate whatever sexual perversion is fashionable this season;
5.   Listening to some greasy-haired, pasty-faced, malignant-looking post-adolescent who can neither read music nor speak coherently mutter vulgarities and pretending that it's music.
6.   Denying that anything is worth upsetting anybody over,  because, hey, we're all going the same place man, we're just taking different roads.

In short,  I regard postmodernism as a trahison des clercs without parallel since classical times.    Those people who attempt to give this drivel a fig-leaf of academic and philosophical respectability make me want to hurl.

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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 03:44:16 PM »

Offline Nevertheless

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Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 07:39:25 PM »
BOG :givingkiss:

Quote
As far as this \"engaging the culture\" business goes,  I think it's mostly just a cop-out.  (I know,  I'm dating myself.)     Our business as Christians is to be witnesses and will quite frequently involve us in challenging our culture.   But I don't really see any of that going on.[/b]    What I've seen in the name of post-modernism is mostly compromise and conciliation and \"accepting\" things and being \"open.\"

We also don't have enough Christian leaders challenging fellow Christians.  It's much more popular to tell people that God wants them to be healthy and wealthy than to remind them of Jesus' words, \"If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.\"

ETA:
I voted with the majority because I think every human philosophy is basically flawed.  I also agree that we need to engage our culture, but that doesn't mean become just like those around us.  I don't have to have the same disease as someone in order to be qualified to drive him to the hospital . . .[/color]

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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 07:39:25 PM »



Offline johntwayne

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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 07:45:28 PM »
A few definitions are in order...

As I understand it modernism was the idea that man, through science and knowledge, could solve his problems.  It failed.

Postmoderism is the resulting state.  We know now that science and knowledge are not going to solve our problems so post-modernism advocates.....

Well, what exactly does it advocate?

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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 07:45:28 PM »

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 03:07:23 AM »
trust no pomo.  they'll all change their minds, anyway. :D

dj

Offline Skip

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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2006, 08:18:47 AM »
In my understanding...

While I'm not entirely sold on Modernism, at least it can define sin, and handle the concepts of Good and Evil. Modernism can handle the concept of an absolute Authority with power to define moral laws (God).

Post-modernism cannot do so. It is limited by the basic concept of tolerance (never condemnation) of the choices of humans. Morality is human-centric, not God-defined.

Offline Arkstfan

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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2006, 10:21:22 AM »
Well defining what pomo is comes close to trying to nail jello to the wall.

In general I'd say that most pomo's would contend that you have to discern what is truth to you but that what you deem truth would not bind them to reach the same conclusion.

Modernism says there is no scientific proof that God exists therefore he does not. Which led to some bizarre apologetics trying to \"scientifically\" prove God.

Postmodernism says that you have to discern for yourself based upon your own experience and knowledge and the answer you reach is valid for you.

Whether one likes postmodernism or not, thinks it silly or not, the reality is that it is growing and we better learn how to present the Gospel to those folks. My intuition is that using more spiritual texts such as John's Gospel that there may be many new opportunities given to us.

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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2006, 10:21:22 AM »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2006, 04:03:51 PM »
Does postmodernism go too far? Sure. But there is biblical precedent for "becoming all things to all men whereby I might save some."

Christians standing in their pulpits yelling to non-Christians that they're all going to hell hasn't been much of a solution. Non-Christians see angry Christians on the 700 Club condeming lots of things but hardly ever affirming anything. The secular culture knows us more for what we're against than for what we stand for.

The message doesn't change but the way we present the message is flexible.

Pax vobiscum.

Offline James Rondon

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 05:03:04 PM »
It seems to me, however,  that the refusal to commit to anything, even a definition,  is an indication that whatever it is,  it won't serve Christians particularly well.

As far as this \"engaging the culture\" business goes,  I think it's mostly just a cop-out.  (I know,  I'm dating myself.)     Our business as Christians is to be witnesses and will quite frequently involve us in challenging our culture.   But I don't really see any of that going on.    What I've seen in the name of post-modernism is mostly compromise and conciliation and \"accepting\" things and being \"open.\"

(Edited to continue my rant)

In particular,  as best I can tell,  \"engaging the culture\"  mostly seems to mean some combination of the following:

1.   Getting a tatoo;
2.   Getting some piece of metal stuck in my face;
3.   Dressing like a slob;
4.   Going to movies that celebrate whatever sexual perversion is fashionable this season;
5.   Listening to some greasy-haired, pasty-faced, malignant-looking post-adolescent who can neither read music nor speak coherently mutter vulgarities and pretending that it's music.
6.   Denying that anything is worth upsetting anybody over,  because, hey, we're all going the same place man, we're just taking different roads.

Agreed.

Offline ellisadam

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 09:45:06 AM »
Quote
Quote
It seems to me, however,  that the refusal to commit to anything, even a definition,  is an indication that whatever it is,  it won't serve Christians particularly well.

As far as this \"engaging the culture\" business goes,  I think it's mostly just a cop-out.  (I know,  I'm dating myself.)     Our business as Christians is to be witnesses and will quite frequently involve us in challenging our culture.   But I don't really see any of that going on.    What I've seen in the name of post-modernism is mostly compromise and conciliation and \"accepting\" things and being \"open.\"

(Edited to continue my rant)

In particular,  as best I can tell,  \"engaging the culture\"  mostly seems to mean some combination of the following:

1.   Getting a tatoo;
2.   Getting some piece of metal stuck in my face;
3.   Dressing like a slob;
4.   Going to movies that celebrate whatever sexual perversion is fashionable this season;
5.   Listening to some greasy-haired, pasty-faced, malignant-looking post-adolescent who can neither read music nor speak coherently mutter vulgarities and pretending that it's music.
6.   Denying that anything is worth upsetting anybody over,  because, hey, we're all going the same place man, we're just taking different roads.
Agreed.

Engaging the culture is not simply accepting everything that culture has to say and then trying to squeeze the gospel into that (and idea that I can find no one promoting, but many criticizing).  It is, instead, following Paul's advice in 2 Cor 10 where he talks about "tak[ing] every though captive and making it obedient to Christ", (which, if you will look at the context is not talking about controlling your personal thought life) and following the example he modeled in Acts 17 on Mars Hill.  He neither wholly embraced nor flippantly dismissed their culture.  Instead, deconstructed what he had to and uses what he could (even if it meant conveying the message in radically different and even shocking ways).
AE

Offline Dennis

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 10:00:48 AM »
We all "engage the culture" whether we admit it or not.  Frankly we all conform to it to some extent.  The question is  to what degree we are conformed to it.


Offline Jimbob

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 10:27:52 AM »
In my understanding...

While I'm not entirely sold on Modernism, at least it can define sin, and handle the concepts of Good and Evil. Modernism can handle the concept of an absolute Authority with power to define moral laws (God).


Right.  It brought us the Theory of Evolution and the survival of the fittest.  It produced the idea that even the "spiritual" is really only the firing of synapses.  As a result, defined all immoral behavior as being a.) biological or b.) psychological. 

Modern thought and rationality has handled sin and truth very well, indeed.

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: Postmodern/Modern Theology Poll
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 10:34:23 AM »
Paul observed the Jewish purity laws out of respect and in order to keep the peace, voluntarily having Timothy circumcized, but would not let Titus be circumcized out of compulsion, and often went to synagogues to preach. And when evangelizing the Greek philosophers on Mars Hill in Athens he did not condemn them as sinful pagans, but commended their religious devotion, yet attempted to get them to see how Christ was the "unknown god" they'd built an altar to and honored in ignorance. On another occasion Paul quoted a pagan Cretan poet. And he told the Romans and Corinthians that all foods were permissable, just not to offend others by what they ate.

Pax.