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Offline grace

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Power of the BLOOD!
« on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 12:23:17 »
The blood of Jesus was needed to cleanse mankind and to give us access to heaven itself. It was his blood that defeated the kingdom of darkness!

Through His death and resurrection we have forgiveness of sins and the right to eternal life. Communion meal represents Christ, our Passover (1 Cor. 5:7).

So if we go through the events of the cross...maybe we can understand how important His blood is to salvation.
Rev. 12:11 says that any believer in Christ can defeat the devil. We can overcome by His blood.....and our testimony.
That said...The blood seems pretty important.

I did a study awhile back and will share what I know or have found and maybe some others can shed light.
I would like to resolve when the blood is applied to our life. Some say when we are born again by faith in what He did on the cross and others say that it is applied in water baptism. Please do not turn this thread in to debating what we have already discussed on the other thread OT vs NT.
Unless new light can be presented.

I think we all agree on the importance of His blood and that it was spilled on the cross.

Most do not like to go into the OT for pictures, but I believe God is a God of order and details. Just like the temple that he wanted built just like the one in heaven.
I also believe that in Leviticus 16, the high priest would sprinkle blood seven times.  This atonement of blood was necessary for the remission of sins, right?
According to the law almost all things are purified with the blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb. 9:22)
The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the souls (Lev. 17:11)
I see only blood being the substance permitted to be used in the atoning process ::shrug::

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Power of the BLOOD!
« on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 12:23:17 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #1 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 13:26:49 »
Yes I agree blood is what atones or washes our sin. Specifically Christ’s blood for us as Christians. I would say 100% of Christianity believes that. WHERE AND WHEN IT IS APPLIED IS THE QUESTION.
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 13:31:44 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #1 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 13:26:49 »

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #2 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 14:49:14 »
Yes I agree blood is what atones or washes our sin. Specifically Christ’s blood for us as Christians. I would say 100% of Christianity believes that. WHERE AND WHEN IT IS APPLIED IS THE QUESTION.
Yes, and that is what I hope to resolve in this thread ::eatingpopcorn:

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #2 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 14:49:14 »

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #3 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 15:21:21 »
I do not want to go into the Lamb representing Jesus in the Passover. I think we all agree on that.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

John introduced him as the "Lamb of God".
Jesus died on Passover as the final offering for sin.
He fulfilled IS. 53 when He stood trial before the High Priest and refused to argue...Jesus kept silent (Matt. 26:63)

I believe that the events not only in the Passover but also in the Journey from Egypt to Canaan  deal deep in types and shadows that point to Jesus.

So what do you believe the word "Atonement" means?

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #3 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 15:21:21 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 16:57:59 »
Atonement "To cover, appease, purge and reconcile."

A covering pattern in the OT would be Adam and Eve. He slew two animals and used the skins to cover Adam and Eve. A picture of how death of an animal would cover the sins of the sinner who would offer a blood offering to God. Still just a picture of what Christ does did for us.

So how do we apply the blood?

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 16:57:59 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #5 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 17:31:12 »
Since the blood atones of sin, how did Ananias tell Paul to “apply the blood” for HIS sins?
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 17:33:46 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #5 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 17:31:12 »

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #6 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 20:01:48 »
Since the blood atones of sin, how did Ananias tell Paul to “apply the blood” for HIS sins?
You say it is water baptism! But I believe it is applied by faith
.
1. Saul went through a radical change of mind and a radical change of direction at the moment when Jesus revealed Himself on the road to Damascus(repented and turned), and he immediately became a person who had been completely converted to Jesus Christ. This is the very essence of salvation. Saul received salvation on the road to Damascus.
2. Acts 26:18: "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'"
Jesus told Saul what he must do in his ministry as an apostle. Jesus was not sending a non-Christian out into ministry, He was sending a Christian out into ministry.
3.1 Corinthians 15:8: "and last of all he [Jesus] appeared to me [Saul] also, as to one abnormally born."
So Saul witnessed the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus, and he immediately submitted in faith to the Lord. Then the Lord appointed Saul as a witness, and said that He was sending Saul out to carry the Gospel to the world (Acts 26:17-18). This is where the apostle Paul received his commission as an apostle. The Greek word apostello ("sending") in Acts 26:17 means, "(by implication) to send out (properly on a mission)."
4. In Acts 9:17, notice that Ananias greeted Saul as "Brother Saul." Ananias understood that Saul was no longer an enemy to be feared, but instead Saul was a brother in the Lord. Next, Ananias referred to Jesus as "the Lord," acknowledging that Jesus was Saul's Lord, whom Saul had seen and spoken to on the road to Damascus. Ananias was treating Saul as a Christian brother.
5. In Acts 9:17, Ananias explained that Jesus had sent him to Saul for two reasons: "so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Once again we can see that Ananias was not sent to lead Saul to salvation. Saul was already saved and had received the indwelling Holy Spirit (according to Galatians 3:2, 5, Ephesians 1:13-14), but Ananias pointed out that he needed to be "filled with" the Holy Spirit.  Do you want me to show places where the apostles were "filled with" the Holy Spirit?

 Acts 4:8: "Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!"

Acts 4:23: "On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them." ...
Acts 4:31: "After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly."

We have had this discussion before. I see the blood/born again on the road to Damascus. Not water baptism...


Offline Jaime

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #7 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 20:11:58 »
What did Ananias SAY to Paul to do to access the blood, since atoning for sin is with the blood. I’m not asking you to explain everything BUT what he told Ananias.

Whatever Paul’s state was, he needed his sins washed away by the blood, and Ananias told him how to apply the blood, WELL AFTER the Incident on the Road to Damascus, Per Acts 22, the retelling of Paul’s baptism and post Damascus Road discourse in more detail than chapter 9.

Wouldn’t the blood be applied somewhere in the process of  arising and being baptized to wash away his sins (atoning) calling upon the Lord? We know that baptism IS the calling upon the Lord per 1 Peter 3:21. And here in Acts 22, Paul is in need of a blood application or atonement.
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 21:40:45 by Jaime »

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #8 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 22:18:42 »
I would like to resolve when the blood is applied to our life. Some say when we are born again by faith in what He did on the cross and others say that it is applied in water baptism. Please do not turn this thread in to debating what we have already discussed on the other thread OT vs NT.
Unless new light can be presented.

I think we all agree on the importance of His blood and that it was spilled on the cross.

In Romans 6, Paul tells us that one dies to sin when He unites together with Christ on the cross, the old self being crucified together with Him resulting in the body of sin being done away (6:6). Christ bore our sins on the cross and took them away (1 Peter 2:24).

So, how and where does the alien sinner come into contact with Jesus’ blood? How is it applied so that he may be cleansed of sin? I agree with you that it is on the cross of Christ.

From God's point of view, the moment was when Jesus bore our sins on the cross. Read Matthew 27:45-46, 1 Peter 2:24 and Revelation 1:5. Peter tells us that Jesus bore our sins on the cross so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness. John tells us that we were released from our sins by His blood. The cross is the pivotal moment in time for all who would be cleansed from sin.

From our point of view, it has to be something that takes us to the cross. I have found no passages that specifically tell us that prayer is how to meet Christ on the cross. Likewise with confession of sin, confession of Christ, or initial belief in the heart.

The only definitive statements in Scripture that I can find that tell us how we get to the cross are those that refer to baptism (immersion). Read Romans 6:3-7 and Colossians 2:11-13.

The following are the stated benefits of immersion in the two passages:

1. Immersed into Christ
2. Immersed into His death
3. Buried with Him through immersion into death
4. Raised up together with Him through faith in God’s power
5. Raised to walk in newness of life
6. United together with Him in the likeness of His death
7. Shall be united with Him in the likeness of His resurrection
8. Old man crucified together with Him
9. Body of sin (the old man) done away
10. Removal of the body of the flesh (body of sin) by the circumcision of Christ
11. No longer slaves to sin
12. Freed from sin (due to having died together with Christ)
13. Made alive together with Him (no longer dead in transgressions and in the uncircumcision of the flesh)
14. Forgiven of all transgressions

Baptism is taught by Paul as where the blood is applied, in Romans 6:1-11. Baptism is how a person is crucified together with Christ and the body of sin is done away (v.6). It is at the cross of Christ that one contacts the blood. How do you get to the cross? Paul tells of only one way regarding how we initially express our faith in the crucifixion of Jesus for cleansing by His blood.

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #8 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 22:18:42 »

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #9 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 22:28:56 »
You say it is water baptism! But I believe it is applied by faith

Colossians 2:12-13.
having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;

Baptism is an expression of our faith in God's power, in His working, unto our salvation. God is at work in our receiving the cleansing of our sins in Christ when we are baptized.

Quote
1. Saul went through a radical change of mind and a radical change of direction at the moment when Jesus revealed Himself on the road to Damascus(repented and turned), and he immediately became a person who had been completely converted to Jesus Christ. This is the very essence of salvation. Saul received salvation on the road to Damascus.
2. Acts 26:18: "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'"
Jesus told Saul what he must do in his ministry as an apostle. Jesus was not sending a non-Christian out into ministry, He was sending a Christian out into ministry.
3.1 Corinthians 15:8: "and last of all he [Jesus] appeared to me [Saul] also, as to one abnormally born."
So Saul witnessed the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus, and he immediately submitted in faith to the Lord. Then the Lord appointed Saul as a witness, and said that He was sending Saul out to carry the Gospel to the world (Acts 26:17-18). This is where the apostle Paul received his commission as an apostle. The Greek word apostello ("sending") in Acts 26:17 means, "(by implication) to send out (properly on a mission)."
4. In Acts 9:17, notice that Ananias greeted Saul as "Brother Saul." Ananias understood that Saul was no longer an enemy to be feared, but instead Saul was a brother in the Lord. Next, Ananias referred to Jesus as "the Lord," acknowledging that Jesus was Saul's Lord, whom Saul had seen and spoken to on the road to Damascus. Ananias was treating Saul as a Christian brother.
5. In Acts 9:17, Ananias explained that Jesus had sent him to Saul for two reasons: "so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Once again we can see that Ananias was not sent to lead Saul to salvation. Saul was already saved and had received the indwelling Holy Spirit (according to Galatians 3:2, 5, Ephesians 1:13-14), but Ananias pointed out that he needed to be "filled with" the Holy Spirit.  Do you want me to show places where the apostles were "filled with" the Holy Spirit?

 Acts 4:8: "Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!"

Acts 4:23: "On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them." ...
Acts 4:31: "After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly."

We have had this discussion before. I see the blood/born again on the road to Damascus. Not water baptism...

If Saul was saved on the road, then his sins had to have already been cleansed and forgiven on the road.

Yet, Saul was told to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins three days later (Acts 22:16). Since he still had sin, he was not yet saved and was not a brother in the Lord. To Ananias, Saul was a Jewish brother, at least until his sins were washed away.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #10 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 08:16:06 »
Grace soterion has shown you how he as well as some of the rest of us see through scripture how we get to the cross now may I ask how you see through scripture that it is any other way to get to the cross. Please use scripture to do so.

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #11 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 10:40:51 »
The blood of Jesus was needed to cleanse mankind and to give us access to heaven itself. It was his blood that defeated the kingdom of darkness!

Through His death and resurrection we have forgiveness of sins and the right to eternal life. Communion meal represents Christ, our Passover (1 Cor. 5:7).

So if we go through the events of the cross...maybe we can understand how important His blood is to salvation.
Rev. 12:11 says that any believer in Christ can defeat the devil. We can overcome by His blood.....and our testimony.
That said...The blood seems pretty important.

I did a study awhile back and will share what I know or have found and maybe some others can shed light.
I would like to resolve when the blood is applied to our life. Some say when we are born again by faith in what He did on the cross and others say that it is applied in water baptism. Please do not turn this thread in to debating what we have already discussed on the other thread OT vs NT.
Unless new light can be presented.

I think we all agree on the importance of His blood and that it was spilled on the cross.

Most do not like to go into the OT for pictures, but I believe God is a God of order and details. Just like the temple that he wanted built just like the one in heaven.
I also believe that in Leviticus 16, the high priest would sprinkle blood seven times.  This atonement of blood was necessary for the remission of sins, right?
According to the law almost all things are purified with the blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb. 9:22)
The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the souls (Lev. 17:11)
I see only blood being the substance permitted to be used in the atoning process ::shrug::

I did a study years ago on Blood as it pertains to salvation. There are some interesting, almost contradictions which I found very revealing. If I may.

Lev. 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 "For the life of the flesh" is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

I found this fascinating. The "Life of the Flesh" is in the Blood. We are to only partake of the "life" of the Christ. As it is written;

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

No other lifestyle is accepted.

Philip. 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The Passover implies the exact same thing.

Ex. 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts (Our hands and legs to work and walk) and on the upper door post (In our mind and thoughts) of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (As did Jesus)

Phil. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

To repent and "deny our self" and follow Him, walk as He walked, obey as He obeyed, endure as He endured.

He IS the Living Water. His Word is Spirit and they are Life.

His sacrifice was more than just holding still while religious men killed Him because He was perfect and they were not, but His entire Life was His Sacrifice for us.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The whole point of atonement is to clear the way for the "New Man"

Rom. 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Like the man Jesus)

Col. 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Therefore;

Let us "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.











Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #12 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 00:59:25 »
How do we get to the cross? How is the Blood applied?

I believe we apply the blood by faith. Just as they did in Egypt.  We have faith in what He did on the cross! Because of what He did on the cross we can go to him and ask for salvation/born again.

Romans 10:10 "With the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I do not want to be like the Pharisees and not admit wrong beliefs when the evidence is plain. But I believe our faith is one of the most crucial areas.  We can not please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). The Just shall life by faith (Romans 1:17, Gal. 3:11, Hebrews 10:38). No one can receive anything including salvation without faith.
I believe Abraham faith was rooted in a blood Covenant that God initiated an bound Himself to. I believe that we like Abraham should root our self in the blood Covenant of Jesus Christ (Luke 22:30).  I believe that the blood of God Himself sealed the covenant and it is that blood which become the surety of the promises (Heb. 7:22).

In Mark 11:24 it says whatever we ask when we pray, BELIEVE THAT WE RECEIVE THEM, and you will have them. 
So If I repent and ask God to save me/born again....and believe I have receive it. Will I be saved/born again or not?

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #13 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 01:11:52 »

If Saul was saved on the road, then his sins had to have already been cleansed and forgiven on the road.

Yet, Saul was told to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins three days later (Acts 22:16). Since he still had sin, he was not yet saved and was not a brother in the Lord. To Ananias, Saul was a Jewish brother, at least until his sins were washed away.
When Ananias spoke to the Lord in Acts 9:13-14, he referred to Christians as those who "call on" His Name. The Greek word for "call on" means "to invoke, pray to, worship" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.628). In Acts 9:10-11, Saul was praying to (i.e. "calling on") the Lord before he met Ananias, and Ananias knew that Saul had been "calling on" Jesus' Name because Jesus specifically told Ananias about it (Acts 9:10-11). Therefore, when Ananias spoke to Saul about "calling on his name" in Acts 22:16, this does not imply that Saul needed to be saved. Remember, Ananias already knew that Saul was saved, and Ananias had previously referred to Christians as those who "call on" His Name. So it would be reasonable for Ananias to tell Saul to be baptized "since you have already called on His Name" (past tense). This is consistent with the original Greek, as these Bible scholars point out:

"Unfortunately, the KJV, NASB, and NIV translate it "calling on," instead of "having called" or "since you called upon" His name" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.232, emphasis added)

 The Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, translated calling on His name refers either to action which is simultaneous with or before that of the main verb. Here Paul's calling on Christ's name (for salvation) preceded his water baptism. The participle may be translated, "having called on His name." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.418, emphasis added)


Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #14 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 01:27:48 »
In Romans 6, Paul tells us that one dies to sin when He unites together with Christ on the cross, the old self being crucified together with Him resulting in the body of sin being done away (6:6). Christ bore our sins on the cross and took them away (1 Peter 2:24).

So, how and where does the alien sinner come into contact with Jesus’ blood? How is it applied so that he may be cleansed of sin? I agree with you that it is on the cross of Christ.

From God's point of view, the moment was when Jesus bore our sins on the cross. Read Matthew 27:45-46, 1 Peter 2:24 and Revelation 1:5. Peter tells us that Jesus bore our sins on the cross so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness. John tells us that we were released from our sins by His blood. The cross is the pivotal moment in time for all who would be cleansed from sin.

From our point of view, it has to be something that takes us to the cross. I have found no passages that specifically tell us that prayer is how to meet Christ on the cross. Likewise with confession of sin, confession of Christ, or initial belief in the heart.

The only definitive statements in Scripture that I can find that tell us how we get to the cross are those that refer to baptism (immersion). Read Romans 6:3-7 and Colossians 2:11-13.

The following are the stated benefits of immersion in the two passages:

1. Immersed into Christ
2. Immersed into His death
3. Buried with Him through immersion into death
4. Raised up together with Him through faith in God’s power
5. Raised to walk in newness of life
6. United together with Him in the likeness of His death
7. Shall be united with Him in the likeness of His resurrection
8. Old man crucified together with Him
9. Body of sin (the old man) done away
10. Removal of the body of the flesh (body of sin) by the circumcision of Christ
11. No longer slaves to sin
12. Freed from sin (due to having died together with Christ)
13. Made alive together with Him (no longer dead in transgressions and in the uncircumcision of the flesh)
14. Forgiven of all transgressions

Baptism is taught by Paul as where the blood is applied, in Romans 6:1-11. Baptism is how a person is crucified together with Christ and the body of sin is done away (v.6). It is at the cross of Christ that one contacts the blood. How do you get to the cross? Paul tells of only one way regarding how we initially express our faith in the crucifixion of Jesus for cleansing by His blood.

You believe it all happens in water baptism. I have shown where salvation happens before baptism in the other thread so I will not go into those again.

You mentioned the body of sin is done away with. Would this be referring to what happens in the heart? Because we sin after baptism, right? So how are we cleansed after we sin again?

Offline Jaime

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #15 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 06:31:52 »
Grace, baptism IS the calling upon the Lord per Acts 3:21. And yes Paul needed his sins washed away as Acts 22 says.

You asked how are we cleansed from sin after baptism? 1John 1, says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Chriat continually cleanses us.
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 08:28:51 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #16 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 06:42:37 »
You mentioned the body of sin is done away with. Would this be referring to what happens in the heart? Because we sin after baptism, right? So how are we cleansed after we sin again?
Such is, unfortunately, the thinking of so many.  It clearly is the teaching of the Catholic Church, requiring one to go to the priest again and again for absolution. It seems to have been carried over into far too many of the Protestant movements.  But it is not biblical.  Justification, which is basically the forgiveness of sin, is not something that happens over and over and over again.  It is a one-time act of God.  Justification is a state of being for the one who has been justified so long as he continues to believe.  There are basically two states of being for a person; he is lost or he is saved.  There is no third state.  In the Bible, particularly the NT, these to states of being are referred to as sinner and saint.  Although the saint does sin, as Paul so emotionally expressed in Romans 7, he is never referred to as a sinner.  The term "sinner" is strictly a term for one not saved, i.e., not justified.

Your question, "So how are we cleansed after we sin again?" shows that you need understand more correctly what is meant by biblical cleansing under the new covenant. Read and study Romans 6. It is a signature difference between being under the law and being under grace.

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #17 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 06:51:27 »
When Ananias spoke to the Lord in Acts 9:13-14, he referred to Christians as those who "call on" His Name. The Greek word for "call on" means "to invoke, pray to, worship" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.628). In Acts 9:10-11, Saul was praying to (i.e. "calling on") the Lord before he met Ananias, and Ananias knew that Saul had been "calling on" Jesus' Name because Jesus specifically told Ananias about it (Acts 9:10-11). Therefore, when Ananias spoke to Saul about "calling on his name" in Acts 22:16, this does not imply that Saul needed to be saved. Remember, Ananias already knew that Saul was saved, and Ananias had previously referred to Christians as those who "call on" His Name. So it would be reasonable for Ananias to tell Saul to be baptized "since you have already called on His Name" (past tense). This is consistent with the original Greek, as these Bible scholars point out:

"Unfortunately, the KJV, NASB, and NIV translate it "calling on," instead of "having called" or "since you called upon" His name" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.232, emphasis added)

 The Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, translated calling on His name refers either to action which is simultaneous with or before that of the main verb. Here Paul's calling on Christ's name (for salvation) preceded his water baptism. The participle may be translated, "having called on His name." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.418, emphasis added)
It should be obvious that Saul had not been saved before his sins were "washed away".  No Dallas Theological Seminary study can change that.  And clearly his sins being washed away was connected directly with being baptized.

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #18 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 06:57:15 »
You believe it all happens in water baptism. I have shown where salvation happens before baptism in the other thread so I will not go into those again.

You mentioned the body of sin is done away with. Would this be referring to what happens in the heart? Because we sin after baptism, right? So how are we cleansed after we sin again?

The only thing you have shown so far is your rejection of the answers to your questions, as if you are waiting until everybody agrees with you. Now you are ready to move on to other questions, even though you have not shown why everybody else is is wrong about the place of baptism.

Like I said: The only definitive statements in Scripture that I can find that tell us how we get to the cross are those that refer to baptism (immersion). Read Romans 6:3-7 and Colossians 2:11-13.

You asked where the blood is applied. You've been shown the answer. Show me otherwise. The answer is not in trying to force an interpretation into an Old Testament typology. It is found in the New Testament.

Quote
You mentioned the body of sin is done away with. Would this be referring to what happens in the heart?

Nope, not the heart. This is what happens to the sins.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #19 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 09:57:43 »
Grace These was Jesus last commission to his apostles before he returned to heaven
Quote
Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)
18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)
15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 24:46-47 (KJV)
46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Now Do we see this carried out by the Apostles yes in Acts 2 Peter preach the DB&R (The gospel of Christ) and the crowd believed and asked what must we do so what was the answer?

Quote
Acts 2:37-39 (KJV)
37  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Here we see Peter doing just as told by Jesus final words befere returning to heaven.

Now does the bible say what baptism does and if it is related to the cross? Lets us search scriptures for that answer.
It looks to me that in Acts 2 we find the answer to what baptism in Christ name is for.

38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We see scripture says it is for remission of sin and giving of the spirit.

Peter did not say your sins were forgiven because your faith he sad Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

He did not say well lets say this prayer he said Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now to answer the question as to if this is where we come to the cross/ Is the cross connected to the baptism in Christ name?

Quote
1 Corinthians 1:11-16 (KJV)
11  For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16  And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

 Here we see some trying to follow the one that baptized them but what does Paul say?  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

We know the answer to Paul's question in no Paul was not crucified for you It was Jesus that was crucified for you that is why we are baptized in his name to meet him at the cross.

Quote
Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)
3   Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Here Paul gives you the meaning of what happens when we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and to receive the indwelling spirit. I do not think anyone can describe it better than Paul and it is recorded for us to have faith in this teaching. If you continue to read the chapter you will see how God buried the old man of sin and raised you new in the spiritual life with Christ. No better picture can be painted than what Paul shows you in this chapter.

Romans 6:3ff is echoed again by Paul in Colossians

Quote
Colossians 2:9-13 (KJV)
9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
It is baptism in Christ name that sins are remited and the spirit is given. To many scriture testifing to the fact to not have faith that they are speaking truth in Gods word.

We also see in Galatians that it is said baptism that put us in Christ (adds us to the church his body the kingdom of God) (Acts 2:47 (KJV)
47  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. )


Quote
Galatians 3:26-27 (KJV)
26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

See Grace yes faith is a big factor for with out faith you can not please God with out faith there is no need to be baptized into Christ but faith does not exclude baptism in Christ name rather it embraces it as also a fundamental teaching they go together faith includes the teaching of baptism in Christ name you must have faith in that teaching on baptism as God recorded it because it is a big part of the gospel.

Now if you read this this through to this end I have show scriptural proof of what I find it to reveal please show me with scripture what the scriptures say to you that I have used and show me why I am in error so that if true I can correct it but if I have presented them in true form the please consider what they teach.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 14:43:04 by yogi bear »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #20 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 10:27:01 »
Grace just one more thought. You say that the remission of sin and the giving of the spirit is before the baptism in Christ name so I have to ask just what is the baptism in Christ name for if not what was recorded in Acts 2:38. It has to have a purpose other than God said to do it so why?


It is proven by scripture to be for what Was said in Acts 2:38 backed by my post above and the following scriptures.

Acts 22:16 (KJV)
16  And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

See this one points back to Acts 2:38 which is taught because is Matthew 28:19 it verifies the remission of sin is in the baptism in Christ name just as recorded in Act 2:38 not because of but for the remission.

Also in Acts 19:1-5 we see that the spirit is given through the baptism in Christ name.

Acts 19:1-5 (KJV)
1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Not through praying a prayer or by faith alone but through the baptism in Christ name.

We also read that the baptism in Christ name is in water

Acts 10:47-48 (KJV)
47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Those truth as written so that we may believe and submit to the will of God.

God answered all the questions on baptism in Christ name we just need to hear and believe what was spoken and recorded for our faith.

When we accept what was recorded it makes other harder problems become more understandable.

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #21 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 10:51:35 »
And all of them are in the NT UNAMBIGUOUSLY for all to see and easily understand......for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. God didn’t instigate an unknowable mystery.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 11:20:10 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #22 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 19:49:22 »
Such is, unfortunately, the thinking of so many.  It clearly is the teaching of the Catholic Church, requiring one to go to the priest again and again for absolution. It seems to have been carried over into far too many of the Protestant movements.  But it is not biblical.  Justification, which is basically the forgiveness of sin, is not something that happens over and over and over again.  It is a one-time act of God.  Justification is a state of being for the one who has been justified so long as he continues to believe.  There are basically two states of being for a person; he is lost or he is saved.  There is no third state.  In the Bible, particularly the NT, these to states of being are referred to as sinner and saint.  Although the saint does sin, as Paul so emotionally expressed in Romans 7, he is never referred to as a sinner.  The term "sinner" is strictly a term for one not saved, i.e., not justified.

Your question, "So how are we cleansed after we sin again?" shows that you need understand more correctly what is meant by biblical cleansing under the new covenant. Read and study Romans 6. It is a signature difference between being under the law and being under grace.
Its not my understanding...I am questioning your understanding.
I believe once He was sacrificed. We received by faith what He did on the cross.
The cleansing is by His blood. Not water!

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #23 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 20:06:00 »
It should be obvious that Saul had not been saved before his sins were "washed away".  No Dallas Theological Seminary study can change that.  And clearly his sins being washed away was connected directly with being baptized.
We will just have to disagree with that. I see it closer to the study I shared.

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #24 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 20:11:32 »
The only thing you have shown so far is your rejection of the answers to your questions, as if you are waiting until everybody agrees with you. Now you are ready to move on to other questions, even though you have not shown why everybody else is is wrong about the place of baptism.
No more than you have rejected the answers to your questions or statements.  I have shared many scriptures showing that baptism is after salvation...that salvation does not happen during water baptism.

Quote
Like I said: The only definitive statements in Scripture that I can find that tell us how we get to the cross are those that refer to baptism (immersion). Read Romans 6:3-7 and Colossians 2:11-13.

You asked where the blood is applied. You've been shown the answer. Show me otherwise. The answer is not in trying to force an interpretation into an Old Testament typology. It is found in the New Testament.

Nope, not the heart. This is what happens to the sins.
I am sorry you do not see it in OT ensamples! I do...
Do some scriptures puzzle me? yes! But I always go with the GREATER weight of scriptures OT-NT before I embrace a doctrine.

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #25 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 20:20:54 »
Grace These was Jesus last commission to his apostles before he returned to heaven
Now Do we see this carried out by the Apostles yes in Acts 2 Peter preach the DB&R (The gospel of Christ) and the crowd believed and asked what must we do so what was the answer?
 Here we see Peter doing just as told by Jesus final words befere returning to heaven.

Now does the bible say what baptism does and if it is related to the cross? Lets us search scriptures for that answer.
It looks to me that in Acts 2 we find the answer to what baptism in Christ name is for.

38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We see scripture says it is for remission of sin and giving of the spirit.

Peter did not say your sins were forgiven because your faith he sad Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

He did not say well lets say this prayer he said Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now to answer the question as to if this is where we come to the cross/ Is the cross connected to the baptism in Christ name?

 Here we see some trying to follow the one that baptized them but what does Paul say?  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

We know the answer to Paul's question in no Paul was not crucified for you It was Jesus that was crucified for you that is why we are baptized in his name to meet him at the cross.

Here Paul gives you the meaning of what happens when we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and to receive the indwelling spirit. I do not think anyone can describe it better than Paul and it is recorded for us to have faith in this teaching. If you continue to read the chapter you will see how God buried the old man of sin and raised you new in the spiritual life with Christ. No better picture can be painted than what Paul shows you in this chapter.

Romans 6:3ff is echoed again by Paul in Colossians
 It is baptism in Christ name that sins are remited and the spirit is given. To many scriture testifing to the fact to not have faith that they are speaking truth in Gods word.

We also see in Galatians that it is said baptism that put us in Christ (adds us to the church his body the kingdom of God) (Acts 2:47 (KJV)
47  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. )


See Grace yes faith is a big factor for with out faith you can not please God with out faith there is no need to be baptized into Christ but faith does not exclude baptism in Christ name rather it embraces it as also a fundamental teaching they go together faith includes the teaching of baptism in Christ name you must have faith in that teaching on baptism as God recorded it because it is a big part of the gospel.

Now if you read this this through to this end I have show scriptural proof of what I find it to reveal please show me with scripture what the scriptures say to you that I have used and show me why I am in error so that if true I can correct it but if I have presented them in true form the please consider what they teach.
I have come to the conclusion at this point that baptism is more than what I was taught....but I can not see the blood applied during water ::shrug::
I can show you a different interpretation of what most share here...but it would not change  your mind.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #26 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 20:27:14 »
Quote
I can show you a different interpretation of what most share here...but it would not change  your mind.

If it is scriptural And says same thing scriptures say Then lets put it to the test.

I have shown scriptural reason why I believe as I do you have not shown me the error in the way I see what the scriptures say so please show me why they do not mean what is recorded if you see it different using the same scriptures I presented.

If you can not prove them in error then lets agree and move on to more meatier matters.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 20:34:06 by yogi bear »

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #27 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 21:14:09 »
I am sorry you do not see it in OT ensamples! I do...
Do some scriptures puzzle me? yes! But I always go with the GREATER weight of scriptures OT-NT before I embrace a doctrine.

I do not see the answers to your questions in the O.T. ensamples because they are not there.

You want to know where the blood of Christ is applied, as well as how. The O.T. does not answer those questions, not at all the way the N.T. does.

Remember how you said the O.T. is the N.T. concealed; the N.T. is the O.T. revealed (or, that you heard that)? You would rather go to the "concealed" scriptures to find answers to salvation questions concerning how and when Christ saves, and the specifics of the application of His blood, rather than to the "revealed"?

It looks to me that you would rather force an interpretation into the O.T. pictures and shadows that would deny the plain teaching of the N.T. ::frown::

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #28 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 05:18:20 »
Grace, you keep saying the blood saves not the water (see your reply #22) We ALL have said time and time again the water is spiritually inert. God applies Jesus’ blood to US (even Paul in Acts 22) in baptism, as we have shown. Please stop claiming that we are saying water saves. Baptism in Christ’s name is The mode God himself chose to apply the saving blood. It detracts nothing from Christ’s work on the cross. Your opinions are fine, but please argue with what we’ve said, not what you imagined that we’ve said. If you think we have said or inferred that the water in baptism is somehow magical or mystical, that is not the case, not even remotely close. The blood of Christ applied by God is what does the work of salvation, it just happens to be IN our old self’s watery grave of baptism, by the blood of Christ applied by God almighty Himself. A miracle IN the water NOT BY the water.
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 05:52:48 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #29 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 07:59:52 »
Grace, it's kinda ironic, but this weekend, I bought a new book entitled The Paridigm by Jonathon Cahn. It is about OT types and shadows in people to the NT people and even present people. It does not look into salvation things like the blood but very intriguing.

On page 18 and 19 of the book, it says (Not my words):

The Hebrew patriarch Joseph is seen by Jewish rabbis and Christians as a prophetic prototype of the Messian. That doesn't mean that the Messiah must then be thrown into a pit and imprisoned in an Egyptian dungeon. Nor does the fact that the Passsover lamb is a shadow or prototype of the sacrifice of the Messiah mean that the Messiah will have wool. So when we deal with prophetic symbols, types, templates, and paradigms, we are dealing with the CORRESPONDENCE. The template, or paradigm, can never be exactly the same as the reality or event it foreshadows or corresponds with. Nor can every element, detail, or characteristic of a prophetic symbol or type match up with every element and detail of the reality it foretells or represents.

Great book though. I am 1/3 the way through it in the first day. Highly unusual in my case being a slow and meticulous reader. The book was mostly talking about OT people and the antitypes in recent world history. Pretty mind boggling.
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 08:47:53 by Jaime »

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #30 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 09:20:03 »
Grace, you keep saying the blood saves not the water (see your reply #22) We ALL have said time and time again the water is spiritually inert. God applies Jesus’ blood to US (even Paul in Acts 22) in baptism, as we have shown. Please stop claiming that we are saying water saves. Baptism in Christ’s name is The mode God himself chose to apply the saving blood. It detracts nothing from Christ’s work on the cross. Your opinions are fine, but please argue with what we’ve said, not what you imagined that we’ve said. If you think we have said or inferred that the water in baptism is somehow magical or mystical, that is not the case, not even remotely close. The blood of Christ applied by God is what does the work of salvation, it just happens to be IN our old self’s watery grave of baptism, by the blood of Christ applied by God almighty Himself. A miracle IN the water NOT BY the water.
Did not mean to imply that you thought water saved you. I just do not see yet where the blood is applied at baptism.

So far in my studies I have come across that baptism, even in the OT, pictures enemies being defeated. But not where the blood is applied.
I as still studying...
Most of what is being posted is old debates! We have hashed it out in the past!
The other thread was going back into OT to show the blood was not applied in the water...but the door.
Also as I started out it was to debate whether the water baptism had replaced by Spirit baptism. I do not see that after many other posted.
But the blood applied during water baptism I do not see in NT or OT. ::shrug::

If I do not answer certain questions...it is because I am not grounded (still studying to show myself approved) on certain issues.

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #31 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 09:22:54 »
Grace, it's kinda ironic, but this weekend, I bought a new book entitled The Paridigm by Jonathon Cahn. It is about OT types and shadows in people to the NT people and even present people. It does not look into salvation things like the blood but very intriguing.

On page 18 and 19 of the book, it says (Not my words):

The Hebrew patriarch Joseph is seen by Jewish rabbis and Christians as a prophetic prototype of the Messian. That doesn't mean that the Messiah must then be thrown into a pit and imprisoned in an Egyptian dungeon. Nor does the fact that the Passsover lamb is a shadow or prototype of the sacrifice of the Messiah mean that the Messiah will have wool. So when we deal with prophetic symbols, types, templates, and paradigms, we are dealing with the CORRESPONDENCE. The template, or paradigm, can never be exactly the same as the reality or event it foreshadows or corresponds with. Nor can every element, detail, or characteristic of a prophetic symbol or type match up with every element and detail of the reality it foretells or represents.

Great book though. I am 1/3 the way through it in the first day. Highly unusual in my case being a slow and meticulous reader. The book was mostly talking about OT people and the antitypes in recent world history. Pretty mind boggling.
Cant wait for you to share what you gleam from the book!

I will agree with what you shared from the book to a certain degree. BUT...I do believe that God is a detail God! A lot to be learned in the details!

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #32 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 09:29:21 »

If I do not answer certain questions...it is because I am not grounded (still studying to show myself approved) on certain issues.

That is a great attitude about this.  ::thumbup::

Offline grace

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #33 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 09:31:39 »
I do not see the answers to your questions in the O.T. ensamples because they are not there.

You want to know where the blood of Christ is applied, as well as how. The O.T. does not answer those questions, not at all the way the N.T. does.

Remember how you said the O.T. is the N.T. concealed; the N.T. is the O.T. revealed (or, that you heard that)? You would rather go to the "concealed" scriptures to find answers to salvation questions concerning how and when Christ saves, and the specifics of the application of His blood, rather than to the "revealed"?

It looks to me that you would rather force an interpretation into the O.T. pictures and shadows that would deny the plain teaching of the N.T. ::frown::
Well, seeing that you really DO NOT KNOW ME....I will not get offended with your post!
There are many doctrines I have changed since my raising! Too many to name to be exact! I am not too prideful to change my way of seeing truth.
Baptism is one that I still can not say "I know that I know" so to speak! I have put these studies up in my file cabinet more than any other subject!
One reason is because of this site and the questions that are ask that I can not reconcile.

That said....I will not buy just any interpretation! You all might be right! But I will weigh everything from OT to NT before I come to my conclusion.

I do thank you for your patience as I continue to study! We can not both be right about our interpretation! We might BOTH be wrong for all I know...so my search will continue!

Offline soterion

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Re: Power of the BLOOD!
« Reply #34 on: Mon Sep 16, 2019 - 09:36:07 »
Well, seeing that you really DO NOT KNOW ME....I will not get offended with your post!
There are many doctrines I have changed since my raising! Too many to name to be exact! I am not too prideful to change my way of seeing truth.
Baptism is one that I still can not say "I know that I know" so to speak! I have put these studies up in my file cabinet more than any other subject!
One reason is because of this site and the questions that are ask that I can not reconcile.

That said....I will not buy just any interpretation! You all might be right! But I will weigh everything from OT to NT before I come to my conclusion.

I do thank you for your patience as I continue to study! We can not both be right about our interpretation! We might BOTH be wrong for all I know...so my search will continue!

I see a lot of my attitude in your post here. That is not necessarily all good, but I think it is somewhat good.  ::noworries::

I don't want to be judgmental, so I apologize if I came across that way. ::smile::