author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153052#msg1055153052 date=1576616491]
For sake of time, and in order for me to complete Colossians 2 down to the end of the chapter, I will only say this: "Neither Jesus nor his apostles ever taught that the Gentiles were under the Law of the Jewish Sabbath as that nation was~and even the Jews themselves were not under it as a means of inheriting eternal life AS YOU THINK and DESIRE others to believe. All of God's elect have been under the Covenant of GRACE from Abel to the last child of God regenerated! God's righteousness has been and will always be FREELY GIVEN GIVEN by IMPUTATION. Read and consider: Romans 4:1-8! God will NEVER impute sin to our account since it was imputed to his Son on our behalf by his grace. See and consider well: 2nd Corinthians 5:21~so no one can be a Chrisitan and a Sabbatarian in the sense in which you teach and believe. Now, if you desire to rest one out of seven days per the reason why God blessed the seventh day, then that's a good thing and we should practice that as I said in another thread yesterday. See: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/the-order-of-sequence-and-biblical-timeline/ Replies #15 and 28 recently posted
To believe you and your religion, I must also believe that the Christ, before coming to earth as a man, was a respecter of persons, that He is also a liar, an unjust God who created instructions impossible to follow, then slaughtered those who didn't follow them. But not all though, as according to you, some of those men who couldn't keep those impossible laws were spared. Not because of anything they did, or any choice they made or any attempt they made to honor God in any way. They were chosen by some invisible Holy Lottery that we can't see or understand.
And you can't tell folks anything about this invisible Lottery, accept that you were one lucky winner, and I am not.
So this convoluted religion of yours teaches that there is nothing I can do to be one of the lucky winners because I was either rejected or chosen before I was even born, but you preach there are things I can do to be excluded from this invisible Lottery.
Specifically, to strive to obey the instructions and believe and promote the WORD's of this Christ of the Bible. If I do this, which includes respecting and honoring a DAY HE Sanctified as Holy, then I am automatically disqualified from this invisible Lottery. So can you please explain how nothing I can do will prompt God to "hear me" but there are things I can "DO" which will ensure that He does not.
You also imply by your preaching that this same Christ is a liar from the very beginning. He told us "If thou do well, shall thou not be accepted"? And throughout the entire Bible HE pleads with men to "CHOOSE HIM". Over and over He says "Come to ME", "Turn to ME", Choose ME and then I will save you. He says "And showing Mercy to thousands who Love Me and Keep MY Commandments", but according to your own religion, these Words can not be trusted and this Christ is a Liar and deceiver, and HIS Laws are "Vain Deceit" and "Rudiments of the World", which are a plague and "yoke of bondage" on the men of the world.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death
, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life
, that both thou and thy seed may live:
But you preach to the world that this is a lie. That we have no choice. That nothing we do, especially listening and obeying Him as EVERY example of the Faithful did, matters. And further more, if we strive to "DO" as HE instructs, we are heretics.
And how do I know if I am a lucky Lottery winner? If I join your church, and follow your religion. Otherwise I am a DOG fallen from Grace, which according to you I was predestined to do from the foundation of the earth as I have no choice in the matter.
I don't believe the Christ is a Liar Red. I don't believe He is unjust, or that His instructions are "Beggarly Elements" and I never will. If I must believe HE is a liar to be accepted by Him, then I am doomed.
BUT, we DO NOT teach that if one does not practice the Sabbath day AS IT WAS GIVEN TO ISRAEL, that they cannot be saved, for THAT would be putting a yoke on believers, for then ONE MUST KEEP EVERY SINGLE COMMANDMENT WITHOUT SINNING and that's impossible for any man of the flesh to do so from conception to death in thoughts, words, and deeds.
I see, If I read the Word's of the Christ which says "Thou Shall not kill", and I tell my children and friends that if they go around killing people God says He will not accept them. That is placing a Yoke on believers because if they keep one Commandment they must keep to be saved, then they must also "KEEP EVERY SINGLE COMMANDMENT WITHOUT SINNING".
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols
, (God's Commandment) and from fornication,(God's Commandment) and from things strangled, (God's Commandment) and from blood.(God's Commandment)
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day
So then, according to you, Peter was placing a "Yoke" on the necks of the Gentiles here. Are they not also bound to obey the commandments of God as well? Or can they steal and lie, and kill folks, and hate their brother in their hearts and still be saved?
Seeking salvation from sin and condemnation by any works of the law is to put one's self under the law's curse, if he sins in one point, which we all sin in every way..... every day.
So whose Word's and Instructions shall I seek then? If I can't trust God's Word regarding who He gives His Mercy to, who shall I trust? Yours, the Popes? I'm sticking with this Christ.
Duet. 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
Prov. 8:17 I love them that love me
; and those that seek me early shall find me
Woops, I forgot, in your religion I can not trust in the Word's of this Christ, Never mind.
We sin in thoughts, words, and deeds, every day we live in this world, even the very best of God's children do so and even in their most godly moment's sin is mixed in all things that we do!
First I don't believe a man has to sin every day in deed and thought. God created for us an "escape" from every temptation. He also gave us Armor to put on in order to resist all the other voices out there who teach we can't resist sin. Or are these more Word's you believe to be lies and deception that I can not trust or rely on.
Didn't the Christ create something for this very ailment?
1 Tim. 1:8 But we know that the law is good
, if a man use it lawfully
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man
, but for the lawless and disobedient
, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
If what you preach about sin is true, then you should have this cure the Christ created wrapped around your entire body and mind.
Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous
, but sinners to repentance
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God
, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless
Woops, I forgot again, the Word's of this Christ can not be trusted.
Red, I know your pride causes you to close your ears and eyes as with all men. And I know you are just furthering doctrines from "other voices" out there. If you could only "Believe" what is written, you would think differently.
Why don't you answer the question I posed regarding your religious doctrine that God's Laws are "Beggarly Elements"? Why don't you examine and explain how those Gentiles were following God's Laws and Sabbaths, before they "knew Him, or were ""known of Him?
Answer the question Red.
You are not the first person snared by the deceiver to promote heresies Red. The problem with being deceived isn't that we've been deceived, the Christ of the Bible teaches satan deceives the whole world. We all have deception in us. The Problem is staying deceived after His Word has exposed it.
Answer the question Red, it might be the start of repentance.