Author Topic: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?  (Read 2717 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #35 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 11:42:40 »
The resurrection and restoration of Israel is part and parcel of the gospel.
Spiritual Israel was neither resurrected nor restored. Paul simply distinguished between ethnic and spiritual Israel. And for what it is worth, Paul called himself an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin (Rom 11:1). He typically uses the term Israelite not in terms of the Northern versus the Southern Kingdom but rather simply as a descendant of Israel (Rom 9:6) which includes both.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #35 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 11:42:40 »

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #36 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 12:28:24 »
Israel does not equal Jews.  It's a little tricky, to be sure.  Jews are Israelites, in one sense.  But in another sense, Israel was the country just north of Judah.  Related by common descent, but not the same country.  It's up to the reader to decipher which is being discussed in Scripture.

As for baptism, it's about birthright.  The promises come through Abraham, and only by inheritance.  Abraham's covenant with God was for an heir, after all.

The Law, which was added afterwards, isn't the same covenant.  God's standards stayed the same (He doesn't change), but the Mosaic covenant has different blessings (regular rainfall, peace in the land) and also contains curses that are not part of Abraham's covenant.

When we get down to New Testament times, we have Jesus' apostles baptizing converts into a new, re-born Israel (not Judah!).  Being goyim adopted into Israel makes them party to the promises of Abraham's covenant.  It doesn't make them party to the Law of Moses, though, as the point of adoption is Abraham, who is before the Law.

So, to bring this back to the topic... what does that mean as regards Sabbath-keeping?  The new Israel is not subject to the letter of Moses' law, but it is subject to the terms of Abraham's covenant, which are to walk by faith until we attain the measure of perfection.  We must keep the spirit of the Law (that is, the intent).  In this case, the Sabbath law was intended to provide rest for workers.  The Sabbath was made for man, so that he does not work himself into an early grave.  That is what we must practice.

Jarrod

I see your point. My use of the word "Israel or Jew" as it pertains to the Holy Root has nothing to do with DNA, rather, a Name God associated with those who trusted HIM enough to "do" as He instructed, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

I don't believe the religious doctrine which teaches Abraham was "Before God's Laws". I know that places me in that almost nonexistent minority, but to me the scriptures are pretty clear. God remembered His Covenant with Abraham, which included Abraham obeying God's Commandments, Laws and Statutes, when He sent Moses to the Children of Israel who had forgotten them. So it seems if the New Israel is subject to the Covenant of Abraham, this would include God's Laws, God's Statutes, and God's Commandments.

God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood to those Laws, Statutes, and Commandments Abraham obeyed, as Paul tells us in Gal. 3:19. This Law was Added to something, because of transgression of something. It seems if we consider Every Word of God, this "something" was the Laws, Commandments and Statutes of God that Abraham obeyed.

So Abraham was justified "apart" from the Laws of justification given on Mt. Sinai. But was Blessed because he obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws. Laws the Christ promised to write on our hearts in the New Covenant, when He took over the duties of the Priesthood as promised in Jer. 31.

But I do agree that the Sabbath commandment was placed there by the Christ for a reason. And for man to reject it was not the reason, in my view. I believe Paul's teaching that we should all be convinced in our own minds who esteems one day above another, and to work out our own Salvation with Trembling and Fear. We do have guidelines to follow in it's observance.

Is. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The Christ's Holy Sabbath is certainly something that should be taken seriously given His Word's on this commandment. He certainly placed it above the sacrifice of animals for the atonement of sins.

And Paul did say not to let men judge me in my observance of it, while rebuking those who would practice the "traditions of men"

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, (Not God) why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? (Not God)

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

A great discussion to have to be sure.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12652
  • Manna: 357
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #37 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 15:02:32 »
Spiritual Israel was neither resurrected nor restored.
If true, that would make Isaiah and Ezekiel false prophets.  ::aloneinclearlogic::

Also, that would mean that Jesus failed in His earthly mission directed to "none but the lost sheep of the House of Israel."  ::aloneinclearlogic::

Perhaps re-consider that position?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #37 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 15:02:32 »

Offline skeeter

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
  • Manna: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:13:33 »
author=skeeter link=topic=105134.msg1055153063#msg1055153063 date=1576640940]
It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what the Word's of the Christ that I follow teaches.

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
you're right. it doesn't matter what you think but what God's word says.

are you one of the children of Israel (vs 2 above)?

are you under law or grace?  according to your posts here I'd say under the law.



Christian Forums and Message Board

Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:13:33 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #39 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:15:28 »
If true, that would make Isaiah and Ezekiel false prophets.  ::aloneinclearlogic::

Also, that would mean that Jesus failed in His earthly mission directed to "none but the lost sheep of the House of Israel."  ::aloneinclearlogic::

Perhaps re-consider that position?
No.  The remnant was a portion of ethnic Israel that made up Spiritual Israel.   The Gentiles were subsequently "grafted" in (Romans 11).   

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #39 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:15:28 »



Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #40 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:54:27 »
 author=skeeter link=topic=105134.msg1055153112#msg1055153112 date=1576707213]
Quote
you're right. it doesn't matter what you think but what God's word says.

Gosh Skeeter, you ignored the Word's of the Christ I relied on to answer your question. Why would you do such a thing after asking the question?

Quote
are you one of the children of Israel (vs 2 above)?

Do you mean, have I been "grafted into the Holy Tree" with the Faithful Israelites, of which Jesus is the First Fruit, and with them partake of the Holy Tree? I certainly hope so.

Quote
are you under law or grace?  according to your posts here I'd say under the law.

Do you mean am I dead by the letter of the Law, or alive by His Grace? It is my hope and Faith that I am alive by His Grace.

And if I am under His Grace, shall I not listen to His Apostle Paul?

Rom. 6:14 For sin (Transgression of the Law) shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (dead) but under grace. (Alive)

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, (dead) but under grace (Alive)? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, (Skeeter) that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Like you said, What counts is what the Word of God says.




Christian Forums and Message Board

Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #40 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:54:27 »

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #41 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:55:52 »
No.  The remnant was a portion of ethnic Israel that made up Spiritual Israel.   The Gentiles were subsequently "grafted" in (Romans 11).

Grafted into what?

Offline skeeter

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
  • Manna: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #42 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 19:36:09 »
Gosh Skeeter, you ignored the Word's of the Christ I relied on to answer your question. Why would you do such a thing after asking the question?
no, I'm not the one ignoring the word of God.  you haven't come close to answering any of the questions I've asked you. They're easy questions that any believer can answer.

Quote
Do you mean, have I been "grafted into the Holy Tree" with the Faithful Israelites, of which Jesus is the First Fruit, and with them partake of the Holy Tree? I certainly hope so.
who were the 'children of Israel' that He spoke about in vs 2 (from your post)?

Quote
Do you mean am I dead by the letter of the Law, or alive by His Grace? It is my hope and Faith that I am alive by His Grace.
another question that is easy for a believer to answer, yet you can't answer it.
I don't know any believers who 'hope' they're alive by His grace.  They know that they are.

Quote
And if I am under His Grace, shall I not listen to His Apostle Paul?

Rom. 6:14 For sin (Transgression of the Law) shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (dead) but under grace. (Alive)

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, (dead) but under grace (Alive)? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, (Skeeter) that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Like you said, What counts is what the Word of God says.
Did Paul write Lev?  was he the one teaching in Lev?  if so, can you quote what he said or wrote in Lev?


Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #43 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 05:52:21 »
To believe you and your religion, I must also believe that the Christ, before coming to earth as a man, was a respecter of persons, that He is also a liar, an unjust God who created instructions impossible to follow, then slaughtered those who didn't follow them. But not all though, as according to you, some of those men who couldn't keep those impossible laws were spared. Not because of anything they did, or any choice they made or any attempt they made to honor God in any way. They were chosen by some invisible Holy Lottery that we can't see or understand.

And you can't tell folks anything about this invisible Lottery, accept that you were one lucky winner, and I am not.

So this convoluted religion of yours teaches that there is nothing I can do to be one of the lucky winners because I was either rejected or chosen before I was even born, but you preach there are things I can do to be excluded from this invisible Lottery.
I'm very sorry to all readers that this post is long, I labored to make it as short as possible but did not want GB thinking that he could not be answered.

Using your words "invisible Lottery" to mock God's election of grace of his people, is a pitiful and elementary effort of rejecting not me, but God's truth! Now, if you desire to debate this subject with me, then let us do so in another thread one on one, then I would gladly accommodate you~but I'm pretty sure you would have no desire to do so~But if you do, then let us start one today.  God does not choose from a lottery but from his foreknowledge of the mutability of all~angels and flesh and blood~ knowing that if he DID NOT CHOOSE some, then NONE WOULD EVER DO SO OWN BY THEIR OWN DEPRAVED WILL!

I will forebear to say very much more on this subject, but I would LOVE to debate you on this glorious truth, but do not expect you to show up. Besides, I'm not convinced that you are even capable of such a debate. If so, then we can start another thread using these scriptures as our springboard:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 15:16~"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
And from Paul:
Quote
Romans 9:9-11~"For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)"
God's children are children of His OATH and PROMISES, NOT taken from an invisible lottery, for then, the oath and promises of GRACE would NOT be SURE to all of the chosen seed! But they are SURE based on TWO IMMUTABLE THINGS~God's oath and promises of GRACE. Enough said.
Quote from: GB Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 09:14:50
You also imply by your preaching that this same Christ is a liar from the very beginning. He told us "If thou do well, shall thou not be accepted"? And throughout the entire Bible HE pleads with men to "CHOOSE HIM". Over and over He says "Come to ME", "Turn to ME", Choose ME and then I will save you. He says "And showing Mercy to thousands who Love Me and Keep MY Commandments", but according to your own religion, these Words can not be trusted and this Christ is a Liar and deceiver, and HIS Laws are "Vain Deceit" and "Rudiments of the World", which are a plague and "yoke of bondage" on the men of the world.
Your wicked and dishonest tactics never end, this is somewhat amazing coming from one who thinks that his good works will ensure his right to eternal life! There are indeed many scriptures that were spoken to PROFESSED FOLLOWERS OF GOD whose eyes had been ALREADY opened by the Spirit of God, for THEM to take hold of in order for THEM to find true rest for their weary souls~Proverbs are full of them, and even in the NT we have them such as:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 11:28-30~"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Sir, these words were not spoken to the Pharisees, Sadducees, etc. , but to his followers whom the Spirit of God had ALREADY given to them the knowledge of him and the gift of eternal life. All one needs to do is READ THE CONTEXT which we find such phrases, which men like you just conveniently passed over since they expose your damnable heresies!
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 11:25-27~"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."
That's your so-called invisble lottery ~but the scriptures calls it God's sovereign will in the salvation of sinners base upon:
Quote from: God to Moses
Romans 9:15-16~"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
Quote from: GB Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 09:14:50
I don't believe the Christ is a Liar Red. I don't believe He is unjust,
Neither do I, and I KNOW that he is PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS.
Quote from: GB Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 09:14:50
or that His instructions are "Beggarly Elements" and I never will. .
ONLY if one is seeking to be made PERFECT by doing them, or, if one does not do AS YOU Do, by laboring to keep the Jewish Sabbath and other feasts days, years, etc.
Quote from: Paul
Galatians 4:9,10~"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Quote from: GB Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 09:14:50
If I must believe HE is a liar to be accepted by Him, then I am doomed
NO ONE is saying Jesus Christ, Paul are liars, BUT if you believe that one MUST keep the Sabbath AS ISRAEL was commanded in order to be accepted with God, then you will be doomed IF you are TRUSTING in your works as the means of inheriting eternal life, and not totally trusting in Jesus Christ's perfect obedience for you ONLY right to life in the world to come. It is just that simple.
Quote from: GB Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 09:14:50
First I don't believe a man has to sin every day in deed and thought. God created for us an "escape" from every temptation. He also gave us Armor to put on in order to resist all the other voices out there who teach we can't resist sin. Or are these more Word's you believe to be lies and deception that I can not trust or rely on.
It is NOT that he has to sin (another dishonest tactic used by men like you) but it is true according to the scriptures and the testimony of every HONEST SINCERE believer that sin is mixed in our very best acts of righteousness, we come SHORT of perfectness...yea, NOT EVEN CLOSE to it! And neither did men like HOLY Paul! Romans seven is very clear on this point. Jesus Christ alone lived a perfect, sinless life from conception to death in THOUGHTS, WORDS, and DEEDS! Sir, you are NOT Jesus Christ, and neither is any man!
Quote
I see, If I read the Word's of the Christ which says "Thou Shall not kill", and I tell my children and friends that if they go around killing people God says He will not accept them. That is placing a Yoke on believers because if they keep one Commandment they must keep to be saved, then they must also "KEEP EVERY SINGLE COMMANDMENT WITHOUT SINNING".
Your dishonest tactics NEVER END. No one should kill, but there are OTHER WAYS of murdering folks WITH OUR TONGUE! Now, any man seeking LIFE through keeping God' commandments MUST keep them PERFECT, ALL OF THEM, not just the letter of the law, but its WIDE application that covers OUR INWARD THOUGHTS of the hearts without EVER sinning~this NO Man can do, so we MUST seek salvation in a PERFECT person and that person is Christ NOT in my works of the flesh, and for one to believe that they CAN KEEP God's law PERFECT are ONE DECEIVE person under a strong delusion of the Devil himself! This is the YOKE of bondage that we are speaking of~let us be clear on this point, but I'm sure you in your wicked and dishonest tactics will labor to turn my words around to try to make them say what you want them to say to make your words believable to the simple minds of those who reject God's words in favor of their own precious works that they glory in.

I did not have time to recheck my errors, please forgive.
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 08:11:18 by RB »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #43 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 05:52:21 »

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #44 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 08:20:28 »
 author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153133#msg1055153133 date=1576756341]
Quote
I'm very sorry to all readers that this post is long, I labored to make it as short as possible but did not want GB thinking that he could be answered.

Using your words "invisible Lottery" to mock God's election of grace of his people, is a pitiful and elementary effort of rejecting not me, but God's truth!


Listening to Every Word of God and believing them is not mocking God. Taking a few of His Scriptures here and there and using them to destroy half of the Bible is mocking God. This is what you do every day. But it's not you really, you are simply following the religions of the land.

It is written that Gods knows the end from the beginning, and He also created all things, including time itself.

 So then this means that He already knows what I have done, even before I have done it. So then when He calls me, as He did Abraham;

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

He already knows whether I did as He instructed, or rejected the call, from the foundation of the world. If I "harden not my heart", when HE calls, I am chosen, if I don't "do" the works of Abraham, I am rejected by Him.  So then, Abraham is chosen and Blessed "BECAUSE" the day he heard God's Voice, he hardened not his heart.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So then Abraham was a Chosen Elect of God. Abraham didn't choose God or choose to call on God, God chose him, or chose to call on him. But it was Abraham's "choice" to either believe and "do", or disbelieve and "do not".

As Jesus said; Matt. 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

But you preach the opposite of this. You must destroy so many Word's of the Christ in order to promote your religion. I have pointed out so many times how you preach one thing, and the Christ Preaches another. And you don't care, but then, neither did the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time.

It is written, "Today" if you hear His Voice, Harden not your hearts". And when we do listen to Him and Follow His instructions, we learn that we didn't call Him, He called us. While we were yet in our sins, He called us. And those who don't harden their hearts, become the elect of God, chosen by the election of Grace who "chose to call us" before we were even born, based on nothing we did.

And what are we called to do?

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, (Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house)  and take up his cross, (Life's experience which differs for everyone)  and follow me. (unto a land that I will shew thee)


Quote
Now, if you desire to debate this subject with me, then let us do so in another thread one on one, then I would gladly accommodate you~

No you won't. You will relentlessly push your religion that the Word's of the Christ can not be trusted, that we have no choice or part in our own Salvation. You will continue to preach to everyone that the Feast's and Sabbath's and Laws of the Holy Christ are worthless traditions of men, "Vain deceit", Rudiments of the world and beggarly elements.

And when any man asks you a question about this preaching, you will deflect, change the subject and avoid the question all together.

So I'll ask you again " Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You preach to the world that these Beggarly elements were God's Commandments.

How is it that these Gentiles who didn't know God, who did service to someone, but not the God of the Bible, were following the Feasts of the Christ, His Sabbaths and His Commandments?

I have asked you this same question many times, why do you "Choose" to ignore it?

There is no need to address all your heresies. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. If you preach this falsehood, even after it is exposed to you, then there is no truth in you.

Passover and God's Holy Sabbaths are not Jewish Feasts. They are the Feasts of the Christ of the Bible. This is why Paul teaches "Let us keep the feast".

Lev. 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. (Not Jewish traditions as you preach)

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

He gave these people HIS Laws, Statutes and Commandments just as He did for Abraham.

Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


He didn't give them Jewish Laws as you relentlessly promote, He gave them HIS Laws.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Whether you believe His Word or not is irrelevant. It isn't God who is the liar, it is man.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

It's in your own Bible.




Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #45 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 09:16:57 »
 author=skeeter link=topic=105134.msg1055153127#msg1055153127 date=1576719369]
Quote
no, I'm not the one ignoring the word of God.  you haven't come close to answering any of the questions I've asked you. They're easy questions that any believer can answer.

Believer in what? I posted the very Word's of the Christ, why are you afraid to even acknowledge them?



Quote
who were the 'children of Israel' that He spoke about in vs 2 (from your post)?

There is a Book called the Bible, inspired by the Holy Creator, the Devine God of Gods, which is filled with examples for our admonition. The "Children of Israel" are examples of humans who God gave His instructions to, and are there to teach us about ourselves, and to teach us what not to lust after. (1st. Cor. 10)

Quote
another question that is easy for a believer to answer, yet you can't answer it.
I don't know any believers who 'hope' they're alive by His grace.  They know that they are.

Ya, that's a thing with "many" religious folks who come in Christ's name. The Pharisees were also "Convinced" they shall not die, as was Eve. But since I have submitted myself to the Word of God which became Flesh, I will rely on what the inspired Word of the Christ teaches.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So yes, your are right in the sense that there are many religious folks who "know" something that they can not possibly know, rather, only hope for. We are warned about this over and over.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I could go on and on. I know how popular it is to "Know" you are already there, to be convinced you are all set, like Eve was. But it seems to me that even this mindset is flipping the Christ the middle finger, especially given all the efforts He and His Prophets and Disciples put forth to warn against such a mindset.

Quote
Did Paul write Lev?  was he the one teaching in Lev?  if so, can you quote what he said or wrote in Lev?

I quoted Paul who said to study Leviticus, that it is these and other Holy Scriptures that can make me wise unto Salvation. I have no reason to believe he lied to me. Maybe you do, I don't know.

2 Tim. 2:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

In your religion, is Leviticus considered part of the Holy Scriptures?

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Is this the same "Lord" you profess to believe? Did Paul say he believe "ALL Things" written in these Scriptures?

Maybe you could also answer my questions.





Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #46 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 09:52:01 »
Quote from: Paul
Colossians 2:13~"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
Based on the forgiveness of sins, (that Jesus Christ SECURED FOR US by his life, death, and resurrection) The Spirit of God had quickened the Colossians to new life through the blood of Christ.

Why is regeneration introduced here? We are complete in Him (2:10), which requires vital life! By nature, the natural state of men, including the Colossians and the reader, was spiritual death in sins. It is another worthless lie to listen to anyone detract from Jesus by claiming we were not spiritually still born toward God without any spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and true holiness. Paul in Ephesians one teaches us that it took the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead to bring about the new nature of a believer (Ephesians 1:19-2:1-5). The uncircumcision of their flesh was the vital corruption of their sinful flesh yet within them. Jesus Christ quickens, makes alive, or resurrects His sheep by His mighty voice (See and consider John 5:25-29). The vital application of our salvation could not have occurred without our sins being put away. Their legal circumcision is not enough; they must be vitally circumcised (See Romans 2:28-29).
Quote from: Paul continues
Colossains 2:14,15~"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
Jesus Christ, God's holy child eliminated and removed the rudiments and all aspects of the Law, which condemned us, which shown us to be wicked sinners. He took all the commandments that cursed and condemned us and nailed them to His cross:  and declared....it is finished! He blotted out all the handwriting, the finger of God in the Ten Commandments. Again~The Law, given to prove man’s sinfulness, He completely fulfilled NOT JUST THE LETTER OF THE LAW, BUT THE SPIRITUAL INTEND OF IT THAT REACHED TO MAN'S INNER THOUGHTS!
(See and consider well: Matthew 5-7; Romans 3:20; 7:9-13). Those ordinances were contrary to us, for we could not keep them perfectly and perpetually in THOUGHTS, word, and deeds! IMPOSSIBLE, or else Christ died in vain and was not needed! He took them out of the way, so that there was nothing impeding our approach unto the Father. Praise be to God that we are complete in Him, dear reader. More complete than we can fully comprehend and believe!  To have our sins blotted out is an incredible blessing (Psalm 51:1,9; Isaiah 43:25; 44:22). Selah!

V15 later....RB
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 10:16:21 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #47 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 10:13:34 »
Quote from: Paul adds
Colossians 2:15~"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
He spoiled and humiliated the principalities and powers of darkness, which once owned our souls as captives slaves. Paul earlier stated our deliverance from the power of darkness into Christ’s kingdom (1:13). Jesus Christ spoiled the principalities by stripping, pillaging, plundering, and robbing Satan. He went into his devilish kingdom and took out of it everything that He desired and chose! We all were once Satan’s obedient slave, walking according to his direction; but Jesus saved us by his perfect obedience. This was the great work of the stronger man binding the strong man, for you (Luke 11:20-22)! Satan had us as surely as he had Judas Iscariot and the Gadarene, to destroy us here and in hell. His name is Abaddon (Hebrew) and Apollyon (Greek), destroyer of men’s souls (Rev 9:11). WHAT spirit would not want you to glory in this great deliverance? You guess it~Satan and his children!  He destroyed their power. He said the gates of hell could not resist the gospel (Matt 16:18). He shined His gospel light into the darkest places of the world (2nd Corinthians 4:3-7; Acts 26:16-18). These Colossians were pagan Greeks converted to the glorious gospel of Christ from darkness! ANd we were NO BETTER!  He spoiled principalities and powers by delivering the mentally afflicted (Matthew 17:15-18).  He spoiled principalities and powers by delivering the physically afflicted (Luke 13:16). He spoiled principalities and powers by making them worship Him and beg for hell to wait. He spoiled principalities and powers by taking their strongest weapon, death, and crushing it! But His great open shew and triumph over them was “in it,” in the bloody cross of Calvary! This was Satan’s hour. It was time for the promised war (Genesis 3:15; Luke 22:53; John 14:30). When they thought they had Him, dying on the cross, forsaken by God, He was triumphing! The sun went dark! A thief worshipped Him! The rocks rent! The veil was torn open! The centurion worshipped Him! He rose again! Many saints rose and went into the city for open shewing! He shewed Himself alive with many infallible proofs! Give Him glory, dear reader! He robbed them of their place in heaven, and they were cast to the earth (John 12:31; Rev 12).

We are complete! We are saved! There is nothing to add to His salvation by our own works! We are complete!
Quote from: Paul thereforth said
Colossians 2:16~"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
Later.....RB
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 10:16:56 by RB »

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #48 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 11:26:38 »
We are complete! We are saved! There is nothing to add to His salvation by our own works! We are complete!Later.....RB
And I assume that you think that you are among the "we" that Paul is speaking about. That is certainly all rather arrogant, boastful and really prideful that anyone would think that.

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #49 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 11:29:28 »
Quote
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153155#msg1055153155 date=1576770721]
Based on the forgiveness of sins, (that Jesus Christ SECURED FOR US by his life, death, and resurrection) The Spirit of God had quickened the Colossians to new life through the blood of Christ.

Which Colossians? All of them? Shouldn't we know which Colossians Paul is speaking to?

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Is Paul warning the Colossians about God and HIS Word? Or man and his traditions. Am I to beware of God's Words Red?

If this is a true debate, then you would answer the question here about who Paul is warning about.


Quote
Why is regeneration introduced here? We are complete in Him (2:10), which requires vital life! By nature, the natural state of men, including the Colossians and the reader, was spiritual death in sins. It is another worthless lie to listen to anyone detract from Jesus by claiming we were not spiritually still born toward God without any spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and true holiness.

And where do we find the instructions which are able to make us wise unto Salvation? Where do we find instructions on what is Righteous and what is not? Do we rely on the philosophy of religious men of the world, or the inspired Holy Scriptures of God?

Where does Paul say we find this instruction so we can repent and prove what is that perfect will of God? So that we can "Walk in Him"?

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

Quote
Paul in Ephesians one teaches us that it took the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead to bring about the new nature of a believer (Ephesians 1:19-2:1-5).

Eph. 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who gets to define Holy Red? Are we to rely on the Philosophy of religious men to direct us in these matters? Or does Paul teach we are to rely on the Word of God for instruction in Righteousness and Holiness?

In a real debate, you would answer this question.

Quote
The uncircumcision of their flesh was the vital corruption of their sinful flesh yet within them. Jesus Christ quickens, makes alive, or resurrects His sheep by His mighty voice (See and consider John 5:25-29). The vital application of our salvation could not have occurred without our sins being put away. Their legal circumcision is not enough; they must be vitally circumcised (See Romans 2:28-29). Jesus Christ, God's holy child eliminated and removed the rudiments and all aspects of the Law, which condemned us, which shown us to be wicked sinners.

No Red, this is another in a long line of lies you further. The Bible says Jesus removes the sin, He doesn't remove the definition of sin, that is satan's doctrine. God's Word is not "Rudiments of the world".  Here is what the Christ of the Bible promised

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So here we are again. You are preaching the Christ removed God's Laws, but the Christ teaches He will write them on our hearts. So once again I am forced to choose between your Philosophy and the Word's of the Christ. I choose the Christ of the Bible.

Paul warns "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

It isn't the Christ who is preaching falsehoods here Red. It is your philosophy which teach against His Words. He didn't remove God's Laws as you preach, He writes them on the hearts of His People.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

He doesn't remove the definition of sin and you preach, He forgives and removes the sin. It is the sin that kills us, not the Law.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.

It wasn't the Good, Holy, and Just LAWS that made Paul dead, it was transgressing them that killed Him. So why did God bring such a harsh punishment for disobeying Him? Paul explains to those who are interested in the truth.

 But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

God made the penalty so steep that we would know and understand how wicked, Evil, and really, really bad it is to reject God's instructions. That transgressing God's Word is the ultimate evil and wickedness. So we could appreciate the seriousness of our actions and understand how important it is to change our ways. That we wouldn't make a mockery of the Christ, and the shear magnitude of His Effort to rid us of this sin.

As Paul teaches.

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Of course, in your religion, the definition of sin is gone, nailed to the cross. Where there is no law, there is no sin. So you must also omit these word's of Paul from your religion, because he is teaching many years after the cross, that sin still exists.


Quote
He took all the commandments that cursed and condemned us and nailed them to His cross:  and declared....it is finished! He blotted out all the handwriting, the finger of God in the Ten Commandments.

Of course you probably really believe that Jesus came to rebuke His Father, to make a show of Him openly, spoiling His Father's Power, and Triumphed over the God of Abraham, who created Laws so unjust, so egregious that it is impossible for man to follow them, then slaughtered thousands of men who didn't keep them.

I could tell you it was the "Commandments of men" the Pharisees taught for doctrines that Jesus exposed on the cross, and that it was the religions of satan that He exposed and triumphed over. But you can not see this because of your natural hatred for the God of the Bible.

Quote
Again~The Law, given to prove man’s sinfulness, He completely fulfilled NOT JUST THE LETTER OF THE LAW, BUT THE SPIRITUAL INTEND OF IT THAT REACHED TO MAN'S INNER THOUGHTS!
(See and consider well: Matthew 5-7; Romans 3:20; 7:9-13).

The hit's just keep on coming. The Law is there for a cure and direction and correction and instruction in righteousness.

1 Tim. 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Quote
Those ordinances were contrary to us, for we could not keep them perfectly and perpetually in THOUGHTS, word, and deeds! IMPOSSIBLE, or else Christ died in vain and was not needed!

What Commandment written by the finger of God is against us? Please name just one.

Quote
He took them out of the way, so that there was nothing impeding our approach unto the Father. Praise be to God that we are complete in Him, dear reader. More complete than we can fully comprehend and believe!

Red, He took the sins out of the way, he exposed the law of the religious men who ruled the day. that they placed on the shoulders of men as law. He didn't take the Good, Holy and Just Laws of God away.

Quote
To have our sins blotted out is an incredible blessing (Psalm 51:1,9; Isaiah 43:25; 44:22). Selah!

YES, He blotted out the sins, not the definition of sins.



Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #50 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 12:17:23 »
Quote
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153156#msg1055153156 date=1576772014]
He spoiled and humiliated the principalities and powers of darkness, which once owned our souls as captives slaves.

So let me get this straight. Jesus spoiled satan by removing the 2 greatest Commandments in the Law and all that hangs on them.

 
Quote
Paul earlier stated our deliverance from the power of darkness into Christ’s kingdom (1:13). Jesus Christ spoiled the principalities by stripping, pillaging, plundering, and robbing Satan. He went into his devilish kingdom and took out of it everything that He desired and chose! We all were once Satan’s obedient slave, walking according to his direction; but Jesus saved us by his perfect obedience. This was the great work of the stronger man binding the strong man, for you (Luke 11:20-22)! Satan had us as surely as he had Judas Iscariot and the Gadarene, to destroy us here and in hell. His name is Abaddon (Hebrew) and Apollyon (Greek), destroyer of men’s souls (Rev 9:11). WHAT spirit would not want you to glory in this great deliverance? You guess it~Satan and his children!  He destroyed their power. He said the gates of hell could not resist the gospel (Matt 16:18). He shined His gospel light into the darkest places of the world (2nd Corinthians 4:3-7; Acts 26:16-18). These Colossians were pagan Greeks converted to the glorious gospel of Christ from darkness! ANd we were NO BETTER!  He spoiled principalities and powers by delivering the mentally afflicted (Matthew 17:15-18).  He spoiled principalities and powers by delivering the physically afflicted (Luke 13:16). He spoiled principalities and powers by making them worship Him and beg for hell to wait. He spoiled principalities and powers by taking their strongest weapon, death, and crushing it!

So the Christ destroyed satan's power by destroying God's 10 Commandments. Isn't that the same thing the serpent convinced Eve of?

Quote
"Colossians were pagan Greeks converted to the glorious gospel of Christ from darkness"

So are these more examples of Pagans who were in darkness because they followed God's Commandments you preach are "beggarly elements" before they knew God? Is this the darkness in your religion?

Quote
But His great open shew and triumph over them was “in it,” in the bloody cross of Calvary! This was Satan’s hour.


So then Jesus triumphed over satan by removing His Father's Word's that you preach are "rudiments of the world", Vain Deceit, Traditions of men and Beggarly elements?

So then, in your religion, are God's Laws of satan to be destroyed? And Jesus triumphed over satan by removing them? 

Red, you need to get away from the philosophy of men, God deserves your respect and honor, not your mockery. You are falling victim to what Paul described in the beginning of his letter to the Romans.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

God's Commandments are not against us, God's Laws are not "Traditions of men" or rudiments of the world.

You are snared by and are being used by the prince of this world to further its ancient deception. It's not to late to turn to the God of the Bible while He may still be found.




Offline skeeter

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
  • Manna: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #51 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 12:44:16 »
Believer in what? I posted the very Word's of the Christ, why are you afraid to even acknowledge them?
a believer in Christ.

you post a lot of verses out of context.

Quote
Ya, that's a thing with "many" religious folks who come in Christ's name. The Pharisees were also "Convinced" they shall not die, as was Eve. But since I have submitted myself to the Word of God which became Flesh, I will rely on what the inspired Word of the Christ teaches.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
submit yourself to Christ, then submitting yourself to His word will follow.

Quote
So yes, your are right in the sense that there are many religious folks who "know" something that they can not possibly know, rather, only hope for. We are warned about this over and over.
yes, it sounds like you are one of those religious folks.  I am not religious, I'm a believer, a follower of Christ.

Quote
I could go on and on. I know how popular it is to "Know" you are already there, to be convinced you are all set, like Eve was. But it seems to me that even this mindset is flipping the Christ the middle finger, especially given all the efforts He and His Prophets and Disciples put forth to warn against such a mindset.
scripture tells us that those who are His, know that they are.

Quote
I quoted Paul who said to study Leviticus, that it is these and other Holy Scriptures that can make me wise unto Salvation. I have no reason to believe he lied to me. Maybe you do, I don't know.
studying scripture often does lead to being saved, yet many read it and aren't saved.  Many read it and make up what they think it says.

Quote
In your religion, is Leviticus considered part of the Holy Scriptures?
I'm not part of a man made religion.

Quote
Maybe you could also answer my questions.
why should I do that?  you don't answer my questions. you post a lot of words, but no answers.



Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #52 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 13:20:08 »
And I assume that you think that you are among the "we" that Paul is speaking about. That is certainly all rather arrogant, boastful and really prideful that anyone would think that.

4WD~ ALL BELIEVERS including YOU, are complete in Jesus Christ. I NEVER said just those who believe as I DO, or anything close to that. Friend, I assume YOU are among those that believe. Nothing arrogant about that. Sir, that is FAITH speaking, NOT pride.

I could give scriptures to prove what I'm saying but I'm heading to Clemson where one of my grandsons is graduating within an hour. Later.....RB

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12652
  • Manna: 357
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #53 on: Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 13:52:46 »
No.  The remnant was a portion of ethnic Israel that made up Spiritual Israel.   The Gentiles were subsequently "grafted" in (Romans 11).
The prophecy in Ezekiel is literally dead dry bones being brought back to life. 

How you can say that "Israel was not resurrected" and not see the contradiction there is beyond me.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re:What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #54 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 03:54:57 »
Listening to Every Word of God and believing them is not mocking God. Taking a few of His Scriptures here and there and using them to destroy half of the Bible is mocking God. This is what you do every day.
One dishonest debate tactic after another, after another, etc. I will not waste much time for those who care to read this thread~ so, I will only point out the wicked dishonest methods (wicked and dishonest they are before God) that you employ day after day on this forum.
Quote from: GB Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 11:29:28
Which Colossians? All of them? Shouldn't we know which Colossians Paul is speaking to?

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Is Paul warning the Colossians about God and HIS Word? Or man and his traditions. Am I to beware of God's Words Red?

If this is a true debate, then you would answer the question here about who Paul is warning about.
Simple~To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which were at Colosse: who knew the grace of God in truth: to those whom God hath made to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: to those whom God delivered from the power of darkness, and hath translated them into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom they received redemption through Jesus' blood, even the forgiveness of sins: there's your answer sir~it's all in chapter one, read it for yourself.
Quote from: Dishonest GB
Is Paul warning the Colossians about God and HIS Word? Or man and his traditions. Am I to beware of God's Words Red?
Neither myself, or any other person have ever hinted, much less said that saints should beware of God's precious truths, it is men like you that we shall soon see that we must beware of and test by the word of God, and we have and have found you WANTING! We shall soon prove it. It is YOU that desires to be UNDER THE LAW OF WORKS, not me~I'm very happy living under the grace of God and enjoying LIBERTY therein~but NEVER using my liberty IN CHRIST to serve sin, but rejoicing that I'm not laboring under the law of WORKS to get to the eternal city built by God for his people who love him and trust totally in Jesus Christ's righteousness as their RIGHT to be there!
Quote from: GB's simple elementary questions that a school lad could answer IF HE WOULD ONLY LISTEN
And where do we find the instructions which are able to make us wise unto Salvation? Where do we find instructions on what is Righteous and what is not? Do we rely on the philosophy of religious men of the world, or the inspired Holy Scriptures of God?
ALL would agree from the testimony of God Himself~and saints should beware of the commandments and doctrines of men and bring them to the word of God to be judge for their truthfulness. I said:
Quote from: RB Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 09:52:01
Paul in Ephesians one teaches us that it took the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead to bring about the new nature of a believer (Ephesians 1:19-2:1-5).
And you came back and said:
Quote from: Confused GB Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 11:29:28
Eph. 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Who gets to define Holy Red? Are we to rely on the Philosophy of religious men to direct us in these matters? Or does Paul teach we are to rely on the Word of God for instruction in Righteousness and Holiness?

In a real debate, you would answer this question.
Sir, you do not even qualify for a candidate in a REAL DEBATE~you would be the laughing stock of any knowledgeable debater and those who could hear with some understanding and wisdom! Do you know how much sense your response makes to the statement that I said? Pitiful indeed. Another logical fallacy in your post~the list is endless! GB, no one here is questioning the subject of instruction in Righteousness and Holiness~no one! And the statement that I made in which you placed in a quote box to comment on, has not one thing to do with your statement back to me. Again I said:
Quote from: RB  Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 09:52:01
The uncircumcision of their flesh was the vital corruption of their sinful flesh yet within them. Jesus Christ quickens, makes alive, or resurrects His sheep by His mighty voice (See and consider John 5:25-29). The vital application of our salvation could not have occurred without our sins being put away. Their legal circumcision is not enough; they must be vitally circumcised (See Romans 2:28-29). Jesus Christ, God's holy child eliminated and removed the rudiments and all aspects of the Law, which condemned us, which showed us to be wicked sinners.
You came back and said:
Quote from: GB Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 11:29:28
No Red, this is another in a long line of lies you further. The Bible says Jesus removes the sin, He doesn't remove the definition of sin, that is satan's doctrine. God's Word is not "Rudiments of the world".  Here is what the Christ of the Bible promised

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So here we are again. You are preaching the Christ removed God's Laws, but the Christ teaches He will write them on our hearts. So once again I am forced to choose between your Philosophy and the Word's of the Christ. I choose the Christ of the Bible.

Paul warns "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

It isn't the Christ who is preaching falsehoods here Red. It is your philosophy which teach against His Words. He didn't remove God's Laws as you preach, He writes them on the hearts of His People.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

He doesn't remove the definition of sin and you preach, He forgives and removes the sin. It is the sin that kills us, not the Law.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.

It wasn't the Good, Holy, and Just LAWS that made Paul dead, it was transgressing them that killed Him. So why did God bring such a harsh punishment for disobeying Him? Paul explains to those who are interested in the truth.

 But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

God made the penalty so steep that we would know and understand how wicked, Evil, and really, really bad it is to reject God's instructions. That transgressing God's Word is the ultimate evil and wickedness. So we could appreciate the seriousness of our actions and understand how important it is to change our ways. That we wouldn't make a mockery of the Christ, and the shear magnitude of His Effort to rid us of this sin.

As Paul teaches.

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Of course, in your religion, the definition of sin is gone, nailed to the cross. Where there is no law, there is no sin. So you must also omit these word's of Paul from your religion, because he is teaching many years after the cross, that sin still exists.
Again, you are one poor debater that it makes it very hard to follow your discombobulated post. Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection removed condemnation of God's law over us by being made a CURSE for us. All saints are DEAD to the law as far as the law of God has any power over us to CONDEMN US. If you mean by the definition of sin the law itself as far as being the KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT SIN IS, then I have never said that saints are without law in THIS SENSE and neither are saints without the law as a RULE OF LIFE, for there is NO GREATER standard of righteousness than the holy, good and spiritual law of God. So, all of your vain babblings are just that....... vain and jangling, just a bunch of loud noise making!  But we DO NOT seek life by the LAW OF WORKS, be whatever that may be that a work monger is laboring to push on God's children as a means of being holy and acceptable before God.

Enough said, for now, I desire to finish to the end of Colossians two.

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #55 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 05:08:38 »
4WD~ ALL BELIEVERS including YOU, are complete in Jesus Christ. I NEVER said just those who believe as I DO, or anything close to that. Friend, I assume YOU are among those that believe. Nothing arrogant about that. Sir, that is FAITH speaking, NOT pride.

I could give scriptures to prove what I'm saying but I'm heading to Clemson where one of my grandsons is graduating within an hour. Later.....RB
Interesting,  Even demons believe......(James 2:19).  I seem to recall that it according to you, only the elect as defined by Reformed Theology believe.  So then are they among the elect also?  Or are human beings the only ones that require such election in order to be a believer?

Sorry, it still seems to me that anyone claiming that he is among those God has preordained to have faith and the rest do not are arrogant, boastful and really prideful.  In that case it may be FAITH speaking, but it is a FAITH full of PRIDE.  How can it not?

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #56 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 05:19:30 »
The prophecy in Ezekiel is literally dead dry bones being brought back to life. 

How you can say that "Israel was not resurrected" and not see the contradiction there is beyond me.
Clearly you are missing a good bit of Paul's discussion in Romans 11.  Spiritual Israel was not resurrected, even if it is composed of all those individuals who have been spiritually resurrected.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #57 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 06:34:34 »
Interesting,  Even demons believe......(James 2:19).  I seem to recall that it according to you, only the elect as defined by Reformed Theology believe.  So then are they among the elect also? 
No they are not, (that is~ those who left their first estate, those who stayed WERE part of God's election...it is not that difficult to see and understand.) they do not have GODLY WORKS supporting their faith per James chapter two. Also, I do not define my beliefs by Reformed Theology, for I'm NOT of that community of believers, for many reasons. It is true that ONLY the elect do believe based upon Jesus Christ securing that faith for them. 
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 06:37:53 by RB »

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #58 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 06:52:10 »
Also, I do not define my beliefs by Reformed Theology, for I'm NOT of that community of believers, for many reasons.
I know and understand that.  However, your soteriology, like that of Reformed Theology, is predicated on the false teaching of Total Depravity. For me, how you might diverge after that is all rather moot.
Quote from: RB
It is true that ONLY the elect do believe based upon Jesus Christ securing that faith for them.
That is not a point of contention between us.  The question is whether it is the elect that becomes a believe or the believer that becomes the elect. And all of Scripture, correctly understood, will confirm the latter. 
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 06:54:20 by 4WD »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #59 on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 08:13:18 »
The question is whether it is the elect that becomes a believe or the believer that becomes the elect. And all of Scripture, correctly understood, will confirm the latter.
4WD, if you like to discuss this topic, then start a thread and we will.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #60 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 03:41:43 »
Quote from: Paul godly words of advice to SAINTS trusting in Jesus Christ's righteousness and God's grace through him
Colossians 2:15-17~"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,"
HEAR YE, HEAR YE, HEAR YE!

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #61 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 04:28:27 »
Quote from: Paul godly words of advice to SAINTS trusting in Jesus Christ's righteousness and God's grace through him
Colossians 2:16-18~"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,"
HEAR YE, HEAR YE, HEAR YE! Let him hear to whom God has freely given spiritual ears to hear and eyes to see. The next three scriptures are very important, so I included them in this post but will first focus on verse 16 in this post.

Due by the blessed truth that every believer in Jesus' gospel that exalts HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ALONE for the forgiveness of our sins and the free gift of Justification unto life securing us perfectly complete in Christ, no man can judge us with Old Testament ceremonial laws.

The “therefore” here draws a conclusion from the completeness of our salvation in Christ (2:10). Paul’s two previous sentences have left the elect in a completed, finished state of salvation from sin and its condemnation~(2:10-15). No man (or woman), no pope, nor angel from heaven can alter the finished gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). Men~ false teachers~will judge the saints by making these things requirements of eternal life. Men have tried to add to the word of God from the beginning to earn their own way to heaven. Beginning during the days of the apostles per Acts 15 and many of the church epistles prove this to be so.

Sacramentalism, or works salvation, has been and will be one of the threats against the gospel of Jesus Christ. The most subtle and dangerous error is “Bible based” sacramentalism from the Old Testament. There has been a reformation of the worship of God, and it was not in the 1500s (Hebrews 9:10). The law and prophets were until John, now the kingdom of God is here (Luke 16:16; Jn 1:17). God’s worship is now inward and in truth, contrary to outward and in form (See and consider: John 4:20-24).

The “meat” here is the Old Testament dietary laws, but includes Catholic fasting, Hindu vegetarianism, and any other dietary commandments outside Scripture, by logical extension.  The LORD gave commands about meat, which have passed away and we shall see WHY in the next verse that we shall consider. (Leviticus 11:1-47; Deuteronomy 14:3-21). These restrictive commands were imposed on Israel until the apostolic reformation (Hebrews 9:10). Every creature of God is good, as long as you eat with thanksgiving and prayer (Ist Timothy 4:4-5). 1st Timothy 4:4-5 truth is upheld each time we have a shrimp appetizer, bacon, and eggs, or a pepperoni pizza!

The SDA invented cereals and Graham crackers to get rid of meat and solve every health problem of man. The principles were Sylvester Graham, Charles Post, and William Kellogg. Before their anti-meat/anti-sex heresy, no one poured milk on grass in a bowl to start the day!

Today, due to their heresy from Genesis 1, we have an epidemic of obesity and carb addiction. The “drink” here is the Old Testament dietary laws, but includes Catholic fasting, Eastern vegetarianism, the Temperance movement, and other unscriptural laws by logical extension. The LORD gave commands about drink, which also passed away (Numbers 5:24; 6:2-3; etc.). Again, we go to the plain argument of Paul that meat and drink laws passed away (Hebrews 9:10).

The “holydays” here are the Old Testament feast days, which folk like Herbert W. Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God still try to keep in the 21st Century and others like GB, etc. Halloween, and other blatant pagan holy days, are to be judged (2nd Corinthians 6:14-17).

The New Testament has a new Passover feast, which is the reality of Jesus Christ (Ist Corinthians 5:6-8).

The “new moon” is the monthly calendar for Old Testament sacrifices (Numbers 10:10; 28:11-14).

The “sabbath days” are the weekly sabbath days of the fourth command of the Old Testament. The Seventh Day Adventists and others like GB, who made the Old Testament Sabbath Day their golden calf, will “beg the question” and “reason in a circle” when you bring them to a plain passage like this. Which I'm pretty we shall soon see. The SDA is so extreme adoring the Sabbath, they make Sunday worship the mark of the beast. They will argue from the plural that Paul intended only the special Sabbath days, but he had already dealt with them under the terms of “holyday” and “new moon.” Are there not about 52 weeks in a year, which led Paul to use the plural “Sabbath days”? The origin of this fetish with them is Ellen G. White’s visions rather than the Word of God.

NT believers worship on the first day of the week, which is the Lord’s Day, with all the apostles and the churches of the saints (John 20:19,26; Acts 20:7; Ist Corinthians 16:1-2; Revelation 1:10).

He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8). There are about 15 + million Seventh Day Adventists in the world and growing 11% annually. Paul preached on the Jewish Sabbath Day to unconverted Jews and proselytes (Acts 17:2-3). We will not let Adventists (or, GB) tell us that Adam and those after Adam unto Moses kept the Sabbath as the Jews did after Moses~Moses wrote Genesis (Nehemiah 9:13-14) yet there are no record of anyone doing so as manner of Israel did~I'm SURE they all used the seventh day TO REST the bodies from Adam to Moses, yet we have NO RECORD of anyone practicing the JEWISH SABBATH AS it was given TO THEM TO DO SO. The Sabbath Day was a particular covenant for Israel under the Old Testament (Exodus 31:12-18). If the Sabbath were still binding, the Council at Jerusalem would have included it (Acts 15) but they DID NOT, which would have been a PERFECT place to do so, and would have given a strong argument for the SDA, and others. No apostle ever mentioned it again, except to condemn its "binding character" in this very verse.

Pentecost, the 50th day after the Sabbath following the wave offering, was on a Sunday! Paul feared that believers keeping the days of Moses were a waste of his labors (Galatians 4:9-11).

If a man wants to keep Jewish days for his pleasure, and whatever benefit he thinks that he may gain thereby, let him do so privately (Romans 14:1-23) and we should honor those that do so, without judging them.

But let him remember that the kingdom of God is not based on meat and drink (Romans 14:17) and he MUST NOT judge those that do not follow his own conscience in such things.

All the ordinances of the Old Testament, which are contrary to us, He blotted out (Colossians 2:14) AS FAR AS SEEKING LIFE through obeying them. 
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 04:50:13 by RB »

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10478
  • Manna: 299
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #62 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 04:43:03 »
4WD, if you like to discuss this topic, then start a thread and we will.
Yogi bear has already done that.  I presented what I believe to be God's truth concerning His meaning and use of the words "elect" and "election". You can read it here:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-elect-104809/msg1055149684/#msg1055149684
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 04:52:38 by 4WD »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #63 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 04:48:23 »
Yogi bear has already done that.  I presented what I believe to be God's truth concerning His meaning and used of the words "elect" and "election". You can read it here:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-elect-104809/msg1055149684/#msg1055149684
Thank you, I will read it later. RB

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #64 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 06:42:19 »
Quote from: Paul continues
Colossians 2:17-18~Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,"
The Old Testament  laws were just figurative pictures of our coming reality in Christ. We have a relative pronoun “which,” but we need to ask which nouns “which” references. The Sabbath days just mentioned are a plural noun, but "so are" the five subjects listed together. It cannot be more clearly stated that the Ceremonial aspects of the Law were shadows of the reality in Christ (Hebrews 8:5; 9:1-12; 10:1). The relative pronoun surely includes the last in the list, but it also includes the others as well.

The body is of Christ~ our organization, or organism~is the church of the New Testament! Old Testament saints only had the shadows, and they were of things to come after their death. NT saints have the reality, and that reality is here now! We are incredibly blessed (Matthew 13:16-17).

A body creates a shadow, but we are the body; the Old Testament saints were the shadow. How did sabbaths shadow Christ? By the rest of His finished work (John 19:30; Hebrews 4:1-11).

In Colossians 2:18 Paul warns the third time against beguiling teachers who do not know what they preach. See and consider 1st Timothy 1:5-9. He has already warned of this grave danger twice before in just this single chapter (2:1,4,8).

What is our reward, or benefit? Knowing our salvation is complete in Christ Jesus (2:10-15). What is our reward? Hope of salvation in Christ (Colossians 3:24; Romans 4:4; Hebrews 10:35; 11:26; 2nd John 1:8).

False teachers pretend humility. Consider the effeminate, self-deprecating priests and nuns of Rome, whose arrogance against God is measured by countless heresies contrary to Scripture. False teachers introduce alternative worship. Consider the worship of saints of the Catholics. They and others like them make a fine show of humility, but they don’t have a problem stealing worship from JESUS CHRIST. They are not reluctant to elaborate on things they know nothing about but by God’s revelation. Catholics teach Mary’s immaculate conception, her perpetual virginity, and her assumption. Are we picking on Catholics? No! They just fit these verses far better than most other heretics. A little education does a lot for men~it can vainly puff up his fleshly mind to think he is wise and that his ways are better than the word of God. Some promote the worship of angels on the grounds they are too humble to go directly to God. More on this toward the end of this chapter.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 08:35:05 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #65 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 08:46:22 »

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #66 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 14:27:04 »
Quote
]author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153266#msg1055153266 date=1576924107]
 Men have tried to add to the word of God from the beginning to earn their own way to heaven. Beginning during the days of the apostles per Acts 15 and many of the church epistles prove this to be so.

Religious voices have been corrupting the Word of God since the Serpent convinced Eve to reject God's Word and choose the other religious voice.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

No mention by the Apostles to the Gentiles that Jesus destroyed His Father's Sabbath and adopted the Catholic sabbath here.

It would seem that the Apostles and Gentiles here were aware of the Christ's Holy Sabbaths and were eager to participate in it. I guess they didn't get your memo.

Why were the Gentiles eager to hear Holy Scriptures that you preach to the world are "Vain deceit" and Rudiments of the world"? God answers this question.

Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. (Including His Holy Sabbath)

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols (Law of Moses) and from fornication (Law of Moses), and from things strangled (Law of Moses), and from blood (Law of Moses).

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And what will they learn from Moses on the Christ's Holy Sabbaths? That His Sabbath is no different than any pagan tradition? That Passover and Day of Atonement are "Rudiments of the World" "Vain Deceit". No Red, that is your gospel, not the Christ's.

Quote
Sacramentalism, or works salvation, has been and will be one of the threats against the gospel of Jesus Christ. The most subtle and dangerous error is “Bible based” sacramentalism from the Old Testament. There has been a reformation of the worship of God, and it was not in the 1500s (Hebrews 9:10). The law and prophets were until John, now the kingdom of God is here (Luke 16:16; Jn 1:17). God’s worship is now inward and in truth, contrary to outward and in form (See and consider: John 4:20-24).

On this both you and the serpent are in perfect agreement.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Same deception, different generation.

Quote
The “meat” here is the Old Testament dietary laws, but includes Catholic fasting, Hindu vegetarianism, and any other dietary commandments outside Scripture, by logical extension.  The LORD gave commands about meat, which have passed away and we shall see WHY in the next verse that we shall consider. (Leviticus 11:1-47; Deuteronomy 14:3-21). These restrictive commands were imposed on Israel until the apostolic reformation (Hebrews 9:10). Every creature of God is good, as long as you eat with thanksgiving and prayer (Ist Timothy 4:4-5). 1st Timothy 4:4-5 truth is upheld each time we have a shrimp appetizer, bacon, and eggs, or a pepperoni pizza!

I don't believe in the Popes and your preaching that the Path Jesus and the Apostles walked is no different than a pagan religion. That the Word's and Instructions of the Christ, are no different than pagan religious traditions. That the Christ's Feasts and no different that some ancient pagan High Day. That Lent and the Christ's creation of clean and unclean are the same. You are free to promote such a religion, but Paul did not.

Heb. 9:10 is speaking about the duties of the Priest. It is a new low for even you to twist this scripture as somehow wiping out the Christ's Definition of clean and unclean that Noah preserved.

Quote
The “holydays” here are the Old Testament feast days, which folk like Herbert W. Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God still try to keep in the 21st Century and others like GB, etc. Halloween, and other blatant pagan holy days, are to be judged (2nd Corinthians 6:14-17).

Again, you can preach the Word's of the Christ are no more important than some ancient pagan religion if you want. Paul knew religious men like you would push their philosophy on others, that is why he warned the Colossians to beware of men who promote religious traditions of men.

Like the Christ's Words are no different than the words of pagan preachers.


Quote
The “sabbath days” are the weekly sabbath days of the fourth command of the Old Testament. The Seventh Day Adventists and others like GB, who made the Old Testament Sabbath Day their golden calf, will “beg the question” and “reason in a circle” when you bring them to a plain passage like this. Which I'm pretty we shall soon see. The SDA is so extreme adoring the Sabbath, they make Sunday worship the mark of the beast. They will argue from the plural that Paul intended only the special Sabbath days, but he had already dealt with them under the terms of “holyday” and “new moon.” Are there not about 52 weeks in a year, which led Paul to use the plural “Sabbath days”? The origin of this fetish with them is Ellen G. White’s visions rather than the Word of God.

So then let me get this straight. You can reject the Feasts of the Christ, preaching they are no different than Halloween or the birth of Mithras and you are saved and Holy and above reproach. But if I trust the Word's of the Christ enough to Honor HIS Holy Sabbaths, I am a idolater.

Quote
NT believers worship on the first day of the week, which is the Lord’s Day, with all the apostles and the churches of the saints (John 20:19,26; Acts 20:7; Ist Corinthians 16:1-2; Revelation 1:10).

No they didn't. They gathered to collect money for the saints, but they honored the Christ's Sabbaths through out Acts, going to the "seat of Moses" as Jesus commanded to hear the Word of God. This teaching is another in a long line of falsehoods that you promote.

Quote
He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8).

This is a specially wicked teaching from you. This is so obviously a lie that I can't believe you actually had a conscience seared enough to actually say it.

Matt. 28:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.(The creator of the Sabbath)

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

How you can preach here that Jesus is speaking to the catholic Sabbath is absolutely stunning to me. It is these comments you make that let me know that you are just deceived. A true deceiver would never step into a lie so easy to expose.

Quote
There are about 15 + million Seventh Day Adventists in the world and growing 11% annually. Paul preached on the Jewish Sabbath Day to unconverted Jews and proselytes (Acts 17:2-3).

The Sabbath Paul adhered to was the Sabbath of the Christ.

Lev. 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.


I don't care about the teaching of SDA, or yours. I belong to neither their religion, or yours.

 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And what will they learn there? That the Catholics changed the Sabbath to the First Day of the week? That the Christ's Feast days are "Beggarly elements" and "Vain deceit"?

No Red, these lies didn't become prominent until about 350 years after Acts.

Quote
Pentecost, the 50th day after the Sabbath following the wave offering, was on a Sunday! Paul feared that believers keeping the days of Moses were a waste of his labors (Galatians 4:9-11).

Gal. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

I have asked you so many times, how is it that these "unbelievers" were following God's Laws and Feast Days before they even knew God? But you can't answer.

Quote
If a man wants to keep Jewish days for his pleasure, and whatever benefit he thinks that he may gain thereby, let him do so privately (Romans 14:1-23) and we should honor those that do so, without judging them.

But let him remember that the kingdom of God is not based on meat and drink (Romans 14:17) and he MUST NOT judge those that do not follow his own conscience in such things.

Again, why do you keep calling the Feast's of the Christ "Jewish Days"? It is a lie, stop preaching it.

Matt. 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,(That the Christ foreordained that we should walk in them) and glorify your Father (Who created them) which is in heaven.

Paul said that each man should be fully convinced in their own mind who sanctified on day above another. It wasn't the Pope Red, it was the Christ who is despised by the religions of the world since Cain set about to kill the Christ in Abel.

Quote
All the ordinances of the Old Testament, which are contrary to us, He blotted out (Colossians 2:14) AS FAR AS SEEKING LIFE through obeying them.

Duet. 30:19 I (The Christ) call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (The Christ of the Bible) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The Christ of the Bible is not a liar Red. You should "come out of her", that is the religion that teaches you He is.








Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #67 on: Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 05:34:59 »
Religious voices have been corrupting the Word of God since the Serpent convinced Eve to reject God's Word and choose the other religious voice.
That's not a debate, all believe that to so, and that's why we are here having this discussion. Sir, do you not have anything to say other than just repeating your same words over and over again? I'm not going to say very much concerning your post, for you have no ability to take a person's argument and prove it false by two intellectually-honest tactics, and as I have said already to you~there are only two intellectually-honest debate tactics: 1. Pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts 2. Pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic and in our debate on rellgion~we must do so by using the word of God.
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

No mention by the Apostles to the Gentiles that Jesus destroyed His Father's Sabbath and adopted the Catholic sabbath here.
You refuse to listen to what we have said repeatedly, that during the period of the biblical reformation period going Moses to Christ, Jesus' apostles (mainly Paul) went into the Jewish synagogues to preach on the Jewish Sabbath Day to unconverted Jews and proselytes (Acts 17:2-3). If the Jewish Sabbath (not as you call it~Christ's Sabbath) were still binding, the Council at Jerusalem in these very scriptures that you quoting would have included it (Acts 15) but they DID NOT, which would have been a PERFECT place to do so, and would have given a strong argument for the SDA, and you. No apostle ever mentioned it again, except to condemn its "binding character" in the very scriptures that we have been considering!
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
It would seem that the Apostles and Gentiles here were aware of the Christ's Holy Sabbaths and were eager to participate in it. I guess they didn't get your memo.
Your words are very deceitful! Not Christ's Holy Sabbath, but the JEWISH SYNAGOGUE where they gather to PREACH MOSES, not Christ! Need help seeing this?
Quote from: James and the rest of the brethren
Acts 21:21-25~"And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."
Every time Paul went into  Jewish synagogue it was to preach CHRIST, not Moses, and generally he caused an uproar and put his life in danger. GB you would have been one of them who would have sought to have Paul put out. You would have been right at home in those Jewish synagogues.  All one needs to do is read the Acts of the apostles and see WHY the apostles went into them on THEIR day and met with believers in Christ on the FIRST DAY of the week!
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
I don't believe in the Popes and your preaching that the Path Jesus and the Apostles walked is no different than a pagan religion.
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
That the Word's and Instructions of the Christ, are no different than pagan religious traditions. That the Christ's Feasts and no different that some ancient pagan High Day. That Lent and the Christ's creation of clean and unclean are the same. You are free to promote such a religion
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
Again, you can preach the Word's of the Christ are no more important than some ancient pagan religion if you want.
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
So then let me get this straight. You can reject the Feasts of the Christ, preaching they are no different than Halloween or the birth of Mithras
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
The Christ of the Bible is not a liar Red.
These are just a few of the dishonest debate tactics that you have employed here~which only shows me that you are a dishonest person, or, just do not have enough biblical knowledge to carry on a logical honest debate~or both.
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:04
Gal. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

I have asked you so many times, how is it that these "unbelievers" were following God's Laws and Feast Days before they even knew God? But you can't answer.
First of all I do not think you have ever asked me that question, but if you have, then let me address this now. Where in these scriptures do you read and see that these Galatia believers were following God's laws and feast days BEFORE God saved them? It clearly said this:
Quote
when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods
They did not do service unto God, but unto them which by nature are NO gods! Why do you think that in their unregenerate state they were following God's laws and Feast days? Are you that blind that you would ask such a spiritually dumb question? I think you should leave the teaching of the word of God to other people other than yourself.
Quote from: GB Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 14:27:0
I have asked you so many times, how is it that these "unbelievers" were following God's Laws and Feast Days before they even knew God? But you can't answer.
You are right, it's because that question cannot be answered, for no such animal exist!

Enough with this nonsense! I want to finish Colossians 2.

 

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7536
  • Manna: 369
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #68 on: Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 07:48:59 »
Quote from: Paul continues
Colossians 2:19-23~"And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
V19~True religion is founded, fixed, increased, centered, and capped by the Lord Jesus Christ. The mark of these heretics is to steal glory and preeminence from the Lord Jesus Christ. Consider carefully the preliminary work of Paul exalting Christ in 1:1-4; 1:13-20; and 2:1-9. We must, at all times, in every way, make the Lord Jesus Christ the only Person of our faith. The church is the body of Jesus Christ: all sustaining grace and strength comes through Him. Here we have mention of the practical salvation and blessing we have in Christ in the church. Here we see the supreme goal for every true believer~holding the Head preeminent~even Jesus Christ....not Moses.

V20~True Knowledge of complete salvation in Jesus Christ condemns any manmade rules for salvation. If we are complete (2:10), circumcised (2:11), buried (2:12), regenerated and forgiven (2:13), justified (2:14), and delivered (2:15), no man can lay anything to our charge. If Jesus Christ is superior in His Person (2:1-9) and complete in His salvation (2:10-15), we have been delivered by anything the world can offer or require ~the only basics of any religion in this world. No child of God should give the world of false prophets any attention or listen to their vain attempts at bondage. The rudiments and ordinances of the world are explained as manmade rules in the next verses. If we have chosen by faith to die with Christ from ceremonial religion, let us never not return to it. Paul will pick up this theme again, when he opens the third chapter, appealing to 2:12 again.

V21~The little picky rules of manmade religion are the “do nots” of trying to earn favor with God. Paul here, in the parenthesis,  mocks the nitpicking commandments of men. Jesus said it is things on the inside that defile a man, (Mark 7) but these are all things on the outside. Maybe you have heard, “I never touched a drop of alcohol in my life.” How holy you must be! Some say, “I don’t smoke, drink, or chew; nor hang around with those who do!” Is this holy? Some boast about never eating certain meats, etc~IS THIS holy?  Paul allowed going to feasts with unbelievers and eating meat offered to idols (Ist Corinthians 10:27)! These rules were often Old Testament ceremonial laws, and sometimes merely manmade laws.

V23~Heretics put burdens on men and threaten them with eternal judgment, if they do not obey. These are the commandments and doctrines of men. They are not found in the Word of God. The damnable heresy here is making such manmade rules binding for salvation and eternal life. If it cannot be found in the Word of God, then it is to be rejected, no matter how it may appear. The SDA and others may throw you out for eating meat, since they are vegetarians for manmade reasons. The SDA will charge you with the mark of the beast and the road to hell for Sunday worship.

V23~Manmade religion does have its superficial attractions that deceive the simple hearts of the unlearned. Paul does not deny, but admits “indeed,” that false religion has an appeal in certain false ways. For those impressed by human conduct rather the Word of God, heresy will be very deceptive. Their outwardly pious conduct and constant attention to “religion” impresses simplistic minds. The things under consideration are the commandments and doctrines of men for pleasing God and his acceptance. The “self-less” dedication and service of priests and nuns have seduced many to Catholicism. They make a show of wisdom in worshipping their own will by choosing their own ways to worship God (self-will) and by denying themselves unnecessarily (excessive self-denial). Being more conservative than Scripture is no better than being more liberal than Scripture, as some have foregone marriage or foregone consummating their marriage in self-willed heresy. Which was worse? The liberal ideas of the Sadducees? Or the conservatism of the Pharisees? They make a show of wisdom in the false humility and pretense mentioned earlier of feigning themselves humble by their outward appearance and subservience to leaders (2:18; Mathews 6:16). Outward humility proves nothing at all. “Pride may be pampered while the flesh grows lean.” They make a show of wisdom in neglecting of the body from things the body naturally needs, as pretending their great nobility and spirituality puts much more emphasis on the spiritual. Their religion is dishonorable by not satisfying the flesh, as God holily intended (See Deuteronomy 14:26; Psalm 104:14-15; 127:2; Proverbs 11:17; Eccl 5:18-19; S of S 2:3-7; Matthew 6:31-33; Ist Timothy 6:17). We declare again~the marriage bed is honorable~contrary to Rome (Hebrews 13:4; Ist Timothy 4:1-3). Catholics, living in monasteries and convents (prisons) after vowing celibacy and poverty, creep around in ascetic self-denial and mock humility, neglecting honorable body needs and end up going against nature to satisfy its bodily needs. Amish, living in squalor and poverty, reject all the witty inventions of God (Proverbs 8:12). The list is endless.

Offline GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #69 on: Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 09:25:23 »
 author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153269#msg1055153269 date=1576932139]
Quote
The Old Testament  laws were just figurative pictures of our coming reality in Christ. We have a relative pronoun “which,” but we need to ask which nouns “which” references. The Sabbath days just mentioned are a plural noun, but "so are" the five subjects listed together. It cannot be more clearly stated that the Ceremonial aspects of the Law were shadows of the reality in Christ (Hebrews 8:5; 9:1-12; 10:1). The relative pronoun surely includes the last in the list, but it also includes the others as well.

The body is of Christ~ our organization, or organism~is the church of the New Testament! Old Testament saints only had the shadows, and they were of things to come after their death. NT saints have the reality, and that reality is here now! We are incredibly blessed (Matthew 13:16-17).

A body creates a shadow, but we are the body; the Old Testament saints were the shadow. How did sabbaths shadow Christ? By the rest of His finished work (John 19:30; Hebrews 4:1-11).

The OT Saints were not a Shadow Red, they were "Examples" of the consequences of the choices men make. I know this, not because some "great Theologian" of the religions of the world tell me, but because the Bible teaches it. However, there is not even one scripture in the entire Bible which states that the "Saints"  like Abel and Abraham are shadows of things to come. This is just Biblical Fact.

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

The Old Testament was written for our admonition. The things that happened to the folks therein, happened to them for examples, so we may learn not to lust after the things they lusted after, and choose to follow the examples of those who Loved God and kept His Commandments like "EVERY Example of Faith in the Bible.

The Holy Days of the Christ are the Shadows of things to come. Passover, a shadow of the Lamb of God being offered for our transgressions. First Day of Unleavened bread, a shadow of the "race" that is set before us and the journey to "lay aside the sin that so easily besets us. Pentecost, a shadow of the "gathering together" of the "first fruits" taken out of our habitation. A shadow of the New Testament church age still in progress. Feasts of Trumpets is a shadow of the second coming of the Christ to take over the thrones of the earth and His rule over all nations. (Has not happened yet) Day of Atonement  is a shadow of the "putting away" of satan after the Christ's second coming. An occasion when the sins of the world will be placed where they belong. Feast of Tabernacles is a shadow of the 1000 year reign under the rule of Christ and the reborn children of God. Last Great Day, the last day of Tabernacles, is a shadow of the Great Throne Judgment where those who died in ignorance will get their just trial to salvation.

God's Holy Sabbath is the "shadow" of the rest at the end of our Journey, the result of Feast of Unleavened bread which begins and ends with a Sabbath. The "reward of our voluntary humility", the result of "pressing toward the High Calling of Christ", the result at the end of the "Race that is set before us", so that our "Labor may not be in vain".

These "shadows" of things to come, spell out God's Salvation plan for His People. It begins with Passover, it doesn't end there as "many" of the prophesied deceivers preach. Many of these "shadows" have not yet come to fruition.

Paul said to "study" these Holy Scriptures "which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The Jews had corrupted these "shadows" and were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of Men. They had lost sight of what these Shadows were to show the people and had created their own Laws contrary to them, which was "against them".

 But as Prophesied, the Christ, the "Restorer of Paths to walk in", came and made a show of them and their religion openly by rejecting their religion with is doctrines and traditions of men, and walking in the "good works" that He foreordained that we all, Jew and Gentile, should walk in them. And God raised Him from the dead for walking in them.

Without following Paul's instruction regarding the Holy scriptures, you can not be wise unto Salvation which is by faith in Christ because it is the very Christ which created this Salvation. The Holy Convocations are the Christ's Holy Convocations. To reject them, is to reject the Christ Himself.

 The Christ's job as a human is finished, but not His Job as High Priest, it has just begun. There are many prophesies yet to be fulfilled. The Sabbath Rest that His weekly Sabbath foreshadows has yet to be fulfilled.

As the Scriptures teach;  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Your religion rejects these truths as did the Pharisees before you, and you, like them, have created your own religion in which the Christ's definition of Holy and Clean has been rejected, and replace by your own.

You are not in a race, Jesus already ran and won the race for you. You are not pressing toward the mark of the High calling of Christ, He has already made you immortal and perfect in your own eyes.

You don't "Labor" to resist sin, Jesus removed the Law, so for you there is no more sin.

You don't Glorify God "AS GOD", because you preach to the world that the Christ's Feasts, and ancient Pagan high days of worldly religions, are the same. That God's instructions and definition of Holy is no different than Pharaoh's declarations. Paul explains why you are so confused.

 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Now you are free to preach as you please. But I am obliged to point out where your religion and the Word's of God part ways. The path you preach, that is followed by "many" who come in His Name, is not the Path Jesus walked.

Even you must surely know this.

 Just as the Pharisees who claimed to follow the Law of Moses, were not following the Law of Moses.

This is why Paul said "Let us therefore, Keep the Feast". And why he warned;

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

And is also why he told the children of obedience;

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Your religious traditions like xmas, Halloween, sunday worship, the images of God in the likeness of men, Lent, these are "Shadows of Nothing", Traditions of men, Rudiments of the world, and vain deceit. These are pollutions of the religions of the world.

I used to do service to the god of these traditions, which by nature was no god, before I knew the true God, or was known of God.

But now that I know God, or are known of God, why would I turn again to these Beggarly Elements of the world to be ensnared again in bondage to them?

Quote
In Colossians 2:18 Paul warns the third time against beguiling teachers who do not know what they preach. See and consider 1st Timothy 1:5-9. He has already warned of this grave danger twice before in just this single chapter (2:1,4,8).

Paul is warning about you Red. You are the one who preaches the Statutes and Commandments of God are "against us", and Rudiments of the World, "Vain Deceit" and now you suggest they are "fables and endless genealogies".

All this because you have been convinced that the God of Abraham created Laws so egregious, so burdensome, that it is impossible for a man to go even one day without transgressing them, then this same God slaughtered men for transgressing these Laws He made impossible to obey. So His Son had to come are rid the world of all these "burdensome Laws" that you preach are "against us" and Save us from His unjust, unfair, mean, tyrant of a God by removing His Laws.

Armed with this delusion, every scripture you read is infected. Every time the word "burden" comes up, you preach it is God's Commandments, every time "Yoke" comes up, God's Commandments, "rudiments of the Word, God's Commandments, "hand writing of ordinances that are against us", God's Commandments. You hate Him so much that now you even preach to the world that there isn't any difference between the Christ's Definition of Holy and Clean, and the declarations of Mithras or Pharaoh.

I know this will just bounce off you because Jesus said you will not be persuaded.

 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

But God's Word does not return void, so I still have hope that your zeal for God will translate into you "Examining yourself".

Quote
What is our reward, or benefit? Knowing our salvation is complete in Christ Jesus (2:10-15). What is our reward? Hope of salvation in Christ (Colossians 3:24; Romans 4:4; Hebrews 10:35; 11:26; 2nd John 1:8).

Our reward, our gift from our Savior is Eternal Life with Him in Paradise. Which we will see "IF We continue in HIS GOODNESS", other wise we also, like those who transgressed God's Commandments by their own  religious traditions before us, will be cut off.

Therefore, let no man judge you in respect of the Christ's Feasts or Sabbaths which are a shadow of His Salvation which we wait for.

Rom. 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Quote
False teachers pretend humility. Consider the effeminate, self-deprecating priests and nuns of Rome, whose arrogance against God is measured by countless heresies contrary to Scripture. False teachers introduce alternative worship. Consider the worship of saints of the Catholics. They and others like them make a fine show of humility, but they don’t have a problem stealing worship from JESUS CHRIST. They are not reluctant to elaborate on things they know nothing about but by God’s revelation. Catholics teach Mary’s immaculate conception, her perpetual virginity, and her assumption. Are we picking on Catholics? No! They just fit these verses far better than most other heretics. A little education does a lot for men~it can vainly puff up his fleshly mind to think he is wise and that his ways are better than the word of God. Some promote the worship of angels on the grounds they are too humble to go directly to God. More on this toward the end of this chapter.

I might remind you that xmas, sunday worship, everyone is immortal, no more unclean, good friday, easter, the image of Gog in the likeness of some handsome men's hair shampoo model, these are all Catholic creations that you follow and preach as Law.

Rom. 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Someone has to stand up and point these religious doctrines and traditions of the religions of the land out Red. You don't have to follow them, you too, can deny yourself and follow Him, if you can bear the cost.