Author Topic: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 13:27:10 »
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author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153353#msg1055153353 date=1577014499]
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You refuse to listen to what we have said repeatedly, that during the period of the biblical reformation period going Moses to Christ, Jesus' apostles (mainly Paul) went into the Jewish synagogues to preach on the Jewish Sabbath Day to unconverted Jews and proselytes (Acts 17:2-3).

I listen to what you preach Red. The Christ says the Sabbath are HIS Holy Convocations and are HIS Feasts, not Jewish Feasts. It's in your own Bible, all you have to do is believe. The Jews had created their own religion, like you have. But Jesus is the "Restorer of Paths to Walk in". So yes, their sabbath, in which it was unlawful to walk in fellowship with God and pick a raspberry to eat, was a Jewish Sabbath, not the Christ's Sabbaths as defined in His Holy Scriptures. Just like rejecting the 7th Day and honoring a couple hours on the 1st day of the week is the Catholic Sabbath that you promote, also not the Christ's Sabbath.

The Christ's Sabbath is the one taught in the Holy Scriptures that Paul teaches "which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

This Sabbath of the Christ is rejected both by you and by the Pharisees. Jesus should know, it is HIS Sabbath.

The "unconverted Jews" were the ones who followed the Pharisees who were "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men". Paul showed them in the Holy Scriptures where they were in error and they were angry at him, just as they were angry at Jesus and the Prophets before Him. Just as you are angry at me for exposing your false teachings.

You have preached to the World that ""
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Paul called the Law of Moses and its commandments weak and unprofitable (Hebrews 7:18), carnal ordinances (Hebrews 9:10), rudiments of the world (Colossians 2:8,20), and beggarly elements in this very epistle (Galatians 4:9)."

I replied to this insidious lie at the time, showing where Paul never taught any such thing, and asked you this question.

 "How is it these "unbelievers" were "turning again" to God's Laws which you are preaching every day are "Beggarly Elements, Rudiments of the world and traditions of men, before they even knew God?

I guess you think if you ignore it long enough, you can get away with lying about saying it in the first place.

You also Preach to the World the following.

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He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8).

I replied to this insidious lie as well.

Matt. 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. (The Creator of the Sabbath)

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

There is not even a hint of the Christ denying His own Sabbath and changing it to the catholic Sabbath here. You have twisted, once again, a Holy scripture to support your own religion, which not only doesn't support it, but  exposes you for twisting the Word's of the Christ Himself to promote Catholic Doctrine.

He did not give a "New Sabbath" here, just the opposite, He exalted the Sabbath of the Holy Scriptures.

These are just two examples of you promoting out right lies about God's Word in order to justify your religious lifestyle. I have replied to many, many others. And when I bring this to your attention, because I don't want to believe you are doing this on purpose, You say the following;

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Are you that blind that you would ask such a spiritually dumb question? I think you should leave the teaching of the word of God to other people other than yourself. You are right, it's because that question cannot be answered, for no such animal exist!

Enough with this nonsense! I want to finish Colossians 2.

Of course you don't want to address these falsehoods you are preaching, any more than the Pharisees did, you want to cover them up, pretend they don't exist, and ridicule those who care enough about you to expose them for you.

And if you are lying about these Scriptures in order to justify your religious lifestyle, which you clearly are, then how can the Spirit of Christ be in you? And if the Spirit of Christ isn't in you, then what spirit is?

This was the dilemma that Jesus presented to the Pharisees, the Mainstream Preachers of His Time. He reasoned with them from the time He was 12 or so, until He was 30 years old. But they were so stubborn and prideful they could not accept that a nobody like this carpenter's Son could teach them or show them anything.

It's the very same Word's which has exposing much of your religion as man made. You have a zeal it seems, it's just that the zeal is spent promoting your own religion. Look at these things I have shown you Red. How do you justify your own preaching on these two statements of yours?

My hope is that you will humble yourself to the Word of God, and get away from the other religious voices out there who have made you vain.

It is the choice Nicodemus had and made, and it is a choice we all have, and must make.

My hope is that will be a Nicodemus.



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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 13:27:10 »

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #71 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 03:57:00 »
I listen to what you preach Red. The Christ says the Sabbath are HIS Holy Convocations and are HIS Feasts, not Jewish Feasts.
For once I will force you to debate using scriptures in the New Testaments epistles after the death of Jesus Christ. I will listen carefully to any and all scriptures you can provide and those scriptures we will consider which you think binds saints under the New Testament to met on Saturday ONLY, or mainly as the day to worship~ per your many posts. I'll be waiting so we can test them with the word of God.
Quote from: GB Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 13:27:10
The Jews had created their own religion, like you have. But Jesus is the "Restorer of Paths to Walk in".
Then by all means prove your position using New Testament scriptures that will explain for us the Old Testament scriptures.
Quote from: GB Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 13:27:10
So yes, their sabbath, in which it was unlawful to walk in fellowship with God and pick a raspberry to eat, was a Jewish Sabbath, not the Christ's Sabbaths as defined in His Holy Scriptures.
Okay, here is your chance to PROVE your position instead of just making blanket statements using New Testament scriptures.
Quote from: GB Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 13:27:10
Just like rejecting the 7th Day and honoring a couple hours on the 1st day of the week is the Catholic Sabbath that you promote, also not the Christ's Sabbath.
I just posted here recently on this very subject: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/the-order-of-sequence-and-biblical-timeline/ Reply # 28. Believers worship God 24/7 not just on Saturday, or Sunday like so many religious people think and practice, maybe you are one of them, I do not know~nevertheless God said that true worshippers worship Him in spirit and truth, without ceasing! Besides, as I said in that post, we DO NOT go to a meeting place to worship God, for God does not dwell in temples made with hands, but in the HEARTS of those that seek them and love him and does his holy will, even though so imperfectly~ yet the LETTER of it PERFECTLY! Only hypocrites think that going to a meeting house is well-pleasing to God and is all that they have to do in order to be accepted by Him in that day~ they are the very ones (among others) that will hear Christ say depart from me ye that worketh iniquity, I never knew you! Per Matthew 7:21-23.
Quote from: GB Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 13:27:10
The Christ's Sabbath is the one taught in the Holy Scriptures that Paul teaches "which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

This Sabbath of the Christ is rejected both by you and by the Pharisees. Jesus should know, it is HIS Sabbath.
And so should you know if indeed it is taught as you believe "in the New Testament"~please provide proof~at least two or three witnesses, for in the mouth of such shall every truth be established.   

The rest of your post is the same regurgitated (repeat errors) mess that you bring up without ever analyzing or comprehending what you are saying and what others point out about your corruption of God's truth. You had your chance to take the SAME scriptures that I just took and expounded and do the same, yet you did not even attempt to do so, neither did you take my verse by verse and point out the errors in those verses, which is what any HONEST DEBATE consist of.

Prove your case using NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews chapter nine"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was Holy Ghost this signifying, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
Show me where under the New Testament that saints are to keep DAYS, months, years and times, etc.
Quote from: Paul
Galatians 4:10-21~"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?"
Prove to me and others where in the New Testament are we to OBSERVE days (sabbaths) years, times, etc.

You do not even understand the reason why there are TWO COVENANTS~I say this based upon your teaching concerning salvation from sin and condemnation. But, for now, let us stay with
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What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
Use any of Paul's teaching and PROVE YOUR POINT. It is time for you to put up, or shut up! Folks hate barking dogs, who bark JUST TO BE BARKING!
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 04:05:27 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #72 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 05:08:20 »
                                                                                                                  Christian or Sabbatarian?
                                                                                                                     You Cannot Be Both!

Are you a Christian? If you are, you know the Old Testament passed away, as its name proves (Hebrews 8:13). You know which section of the Bible is for you, and which section was for Israel. You know Leviticus was for the Levites, not the deacons in your church. You know Paul's epistles are for Gentile Christians. Therefore, it does not matter how many times circumcision, sabbath, turtledoves, wave offering, goats, blood, altar, and incense occur in the O.T., they do not apply to you today. Those were beggarly elements of a Jewish form of worship and bondage that is now 2000 years dead.

Christians follow Jesus Christ and the apostles, not Moses. The N.T. exalts Jesus the Son far above Moses the servant (John 1:17; Hebrews 3:3-6). Christians follow the teaching and tradition of His apostles (2nd Thessalonians 2:15; Galatians 1:8). His apostles and prophets had the highest offices in the N.T., and they are the foundation of the N.T. church (Ist Corinthains 12:28; Ephesians 2:19-22; 3:1-7). Any contrary opinion is heresy (2ndThessalonians 3:6; Romans 16:17-18; Ist John 4:6; Jude 1:3). Following John and Jesus, they changed God's worship (Luke 16:16; John 4:20-24; Hebrews 2:1-4; 9:10). Using Jewish O.T. rules for religious practice today is not Christianity; Moses, David, or Isaiah hardly had a clue about N.T. Christianity (Ist Peter 1:10-12).

Paul is the final authority for New Testament worship. Jesus Christ chose Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles, and he and the other apostles understood his special role (Acts 9:15; 15:12; Romans 11:13; 15:15-21; Galatians 2:8-9). Do you? Gentiles are to follow Paul in the way he followed Christ (Ist Corinthians 4:14-16; 11:1-2; Philippians 3:17). He is the pattern for proper Christian living and worship (Philippians 4:9). He wrote three of the N.T. If a practice cannot be found in Paul's writing, it should not be followed. Paul condemned Sabbatarians and exalted the first day of the week, as the N.T.clearly show.

Paul's gospel and ordinances were directly from Jesus Christ. Paul certified that the gospel he preached was directly from the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-7; Ist Corinthians 11:23; 14:37). Therefore, just as the Lord had commissioned and charged the original eleven apostles, Paul taught converts to observe exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ had commanded (Matt 28:20). NT Christians do not follow Moses. Since Paul condemned Sabbath obligations and ordered the churches to use the first day of the week for religious duties, we know that these were the express commands of the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 4:9-11; Ist Corinthians 16:1-2).

Later......RB

« Last Edit: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 05:15:15 by RB »

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #72 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 05:08:20 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #73 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:15:55 »
Paul's gospel and ordinances were directly from Jesus Christ. Paul certified that the gospel he preached was directly from the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-7; Ist Corinthians 11:23; 14:37). Therefore, just as the Lord had commissioned and charged the original eleven apostles, Paul taught converts to observe exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ had commanded (Matt 28:20). NT Christians do not follow Moses. Since Paul condemned Sabbath obligations and ordered the churches to use the first day of the week for religious duties, we know that these were the express commands of the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 4:9-11; Ist Corinthians 16:1-2).

Later......RB
Jesus followed Moses.  Neither He nor Paul ever spoke against the law or told anyone not to obey the law. 

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #73 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:15:55 »

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:25:32 »
Jesus followed Moses.
He did so perfectly. He was born under the law as a Jews and lived as a Jew under the law of Moses.
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Neither He nor Paul ever spoke against the law or told anyone not to obey the law.
As a rule life, we agree~ yet not the months, days, times, or, the dietary laws of Judaism, etc.

Paul condemned Sabbatarians and the Sabbath as a day of WORSHIP for Christians under the NT. He condemned any obligation or requirement to keep Sabbath days, because Jesus had nailed that contrary ordinance to His cross, for it was only a shadowy figure of Him (Col 2:14,16-17). He declared that Jewish days were weak and beggarly elements, created religious bondage comparable to idolatry, and would ruin his gospel labors and their conversions (Galatians 4:8-11). He told the Hebrews that the gospel rest in Christ's finished work of redemption had superseded the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:1-11). He concluded that the had been replaced (Hebrews 8:13; 9:10).
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST who is greater than Moses!
John 4:23,24~"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Jewish worship of the OT was carnal, fleshly and not from the heart as far as their type of worship AS A NATION~ it is true that the very elect of that nation understood these things and worship God in the heart while following the carnal aspect of their OT worship and KNEW that God desired more than what Israel after the flesh did in the carnal worship which only pointed TO CHRIST and NT worship.
Quote from: David
Psalm 51:16,17~"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
This worship of God which is 24/7 is the ONLY true worship that God takes delight in!
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 13:15,16~"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased."
Again:
Quote from: Peter
1st Peter 2:5~"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."
OT worship could be summed up as carnal, whereas NT worship is strictly summed up as SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES~or godly fruits of the Spirit of God, which every child of God has living WITHIN THEM under the kingdom of Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:58:15 by RB »

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #74 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:25:32 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #75 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:44:02 »
RB, what do you think is the "record of debt" [ESV] or the " handwriting of ordinances" [KJV] that is said to be canceled in Colossians 2:14?

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #75 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:44:02 »

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #76 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 07:58:06 »
RB, what do you think is the "record of debt" [ESV] or the " handwriting of ordinances" [KJV] that is said to be canceled in Colossians 2:14?
4WD, I did briefly touch on this already above, yet I will come back later and go in-depth. I have a meeting within thirty minutes that will take up most of my morning, so it will be later today, the Lord willing. I agree that much more needs to be said concerning that one scripture. Understand that one scripture, others would be easier to see and understand. RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #77 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 07:59:39 »
 author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153412#msg1055153412 date=1577095020]
For once I will force you to debate using scriptures in the New Testaments epistles after the death of Jesus Christ.

Red,

I just pointed out two examples of your preaching that can not be supported by the Word of God. I asked you questions about them, and you ignore them over and over. In an honest debate you would answer and explain your statements.


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Paul called the Law of Moses and its commandments weak and unprofitable (Hebrews 7:18), carnal ordinances (Hebrews 9:10), rudiments of the world (Colossians 2:8,20), and beggarly elements in this very epistle (Galatians 4:9)."

I exposed, with scripture, that in each case,  Paul NEVER called God's Commandments any of these things. He spoke of the Priest's duties of the Temporary Levitical Priesthood, that was "ADDED" to God's Laws in Hebrews, but in no way was He calling God's "Good, Spiritual, Just Laws of God "Carnal ordinances", Rudiments of the world, or weak and unprofitable, or beggarly elements.

On the Latter;

Gal. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I asked, "how is it folks that don't even know God" were keeping His Commandments you preach to the world are beggarly Elements? How did they "Turn again" to follow Commandments of God that they kept before they even knew God.

You act as if pagan religions didn't have High Days, or religious traditions.

But you hide from this question at all costs, because even you must see how utterly asinine and false it is to even assume that the beggarly Elements the Gentiles were partaking of, before they even knew God, was God's Commandments as you preach.

This is the very reason "Christians" are supposed to discuss scriptures, YES? To discern those who are true Disciples, and those who are just disguised as Apostles of Christ.

Another of the many falsehoods you promote follows below.

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He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8).

Matt. 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. (Creator of His Sabbath)

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Here Jesus is solely dependent on the Old Testament Scriptures to expose the Sabbath of the Pharisees.

There is not even a hint that Jesus is speaking about the Catholic sabbath here. His Sabbath, the one He is Lord of, is the Sabbath of the Bible. For you to try and use this verse to promote ancient catholic traditions is not new, false preachers throughout history have been twisting God's Word to promote disobedience to God since the serpent used some of God's Words to deceive Eve.

You talk about honest debate, and Straw men, and call others all manner of names. And yet it is you who are twisting the Word's of the Bible to promote ancient catholic traditions, and when you are called out on it, you hide and refuse to acknowledge your own preaching.

Why would you do this?

I'll address the rest of your reply in another post.


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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #78 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 10:26:54 »
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153412#msg1055153412 date=1577095020]
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For once I will force you to debate using scriptures in the New Testaments epistles after the death of Jesus Christ.

The religion which preaches that God's Word's can't be trusted unless they were written down after religious men killed Jesus is a phony religion.

Paul instructed us to "Study" the only Scriptures available to Him in his entire life. His letters were not added to the Law and Prophets until long after they were all dead. These are just Biblical Facts.

This is Paul's Teaching Red.

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; (Word of God)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Notice he didn't say words of the Pope, or some worldly recognized "Great Theologian" you pick from the thousands out there. He said "Holy Scriptures", all of which were written down "before" Jesus was killed by men claiming to be God's Children.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
Do you see Paul's Word's here Red? "ALL SCRIPTURE", not just those words which were not even add to the Holy Scriptures until many years after Paul was dead.

Paul declared to the Jews and the entire World his belief.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (YOU) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

You claim to believe Paul's teaching, yet to reject so much of it.

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I will listen carefully to any and all scriptures you can provide and those scriptures we will consider which you think binds saints under the New Testament to met on Saturday ONLY, or mainly as the day to worship~ per your many posts.

You are once again, lying. I have never mentioned meeting or gathering together on the Christ's Sabbaths at all, let alone "only". The Sabbath wasn't made for a social get together, or bingo, or pork barbeques, easter egg hunts.

That is the whole "catholic" tradition you promote. I believe that true Believers should prefer one another, help one another, gather together for all manner of reasons. The Apostles gathered to study, and to gather money and supplies for the disciples.  The Feast's of the Christ were "Holy Convocations" where like minded believers gathered and reflected on what was to come, like Pentecost.

But none of this has anything to do with the Sanctified Holy, Weekly Sabbath.

Ex. 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Holy Christ, in the Holy Scriptures you have rejected from your religion, the Holy Scriptures which Paul believed in and taught others to "study" also said the following.

Is. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, (The Holy Christ) not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

There is no mention here of parties or great social gatherings. And you will not find one post from me that teaches we must all get together on the Christ's Holy Sabbath or else.

What I am opposed to in rejecting the Commandment of the Holy Christ, in favor of some random Pagan High Day that some sun worshipper placed Jesus name on.

The 7th Day of the Week is the Christ's Sabbath. The first day of the week is no sabbath at all. You will not find ONE SCRIPTURE from the entire Bible, old and new testament, that calls the 1st day of the week, the Sabbath. It is a man made High Day, entered into "Christianity" by Constantine, the founder of the Catholic church as we know it today.

To me It's about the warnings of Jesus and His Disciples who warned about "Christians" deceiving "Many". Not Islam, not Atheists, but "Christians". You claim to "believe" in the Christ, but your posts show that you don't. You believe in a religion which uses some of His Words and rejects the rest. That is no different than the Pharisees or the serpent in the very beginning. If you were truly interested in a "debate", you would engage in these topics and examine the warnings. But you seem only interested in justifying your own religious lifestyle.

Which is fine, you are free to preach as you please. But this is a forum which discusses theology, and I am discerning the difference between what the Bible teaches vs. what the varying theologies of the world teaches.

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Believers worship God 24/7 not just on Saturday, or Sunday like so many religious people think and practice, maybe you are one of them, I do not know~nevertheless God said that true worshippers worship Him in spirit and truth, without ceasing!

Yes, true "believers" submit themselves to God every day. And pray without ceasing. But this has nothing to do with blatantly rejecting a commandment of God.


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Besides, as I said in that post, we DO NOT go to a meeting place to worship God, for God does not dwell in temples made with hands, but in the HEARTS of those that seek them and love him and does his holy will,

Exactly, belonging to some huge social club who provides entertainment one day a week means nothing. But Honoring the Word of God which became Flesh does. And how can I Honor Him if I reject the way in which He instructs me to Honor Him?

Surely flushing HIS Word's down the religious toilet is no way to Honor such a Great God. Rejecting His Word's and Commandments and promoting ancient pagan traditions is no way to Honor the Great God of Abraham.

 Truly, for those who deny themselves and Follow Him, His Eternal Truth is Evident. "If you Love Me, Keep My Commandments".

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Only hypocrites think that going to a meeting house is well-pleasing to God and is all that they have to do in order to be accepted by Him in that day~

I agree with you 100%.

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they are the very ones (among others) that will hear Christ say depart from me ye that worketh iniquity, I never knew you!

Yes, "Ye that work iniquity". Lawlessness. I don't think it is against the laws of God to gather together, but it is iniquity to pick and choose what Commandments of God are worthy of your Honor, and what Commandments of God are not.

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Per Matthew 7:21-23[/b].And so should you know if indeed it is taught as you believe "in the New Testament"~please provide proof~at least two or three witnesses, for in the mouth of such shall every truth be established. 

I will pick 3 witnesses.

#1. The Christ, The Word of God which Became Flesh, the creator of all things, created for Him and By Him.

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD (The Holy Christ) spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

#2. Jesus, the Christ who came to earth as a man, and the Lamb of God.

Matt. 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

#3. Paul.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And again;

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

1 Cor. 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


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The rest of your post is the same regurgitated (repeat errors) mess that you bring up without ever analyzing or comprehending what you are saying and what others point out about your corruption of God's truth. You had your chance to take the SAME scriptures that I just took and expounded and do the same, yet you did not even attempt to do so, neither did you take my verse by verse and point out the errors in those verses, which is what any HONEST DEBATE consist of.

I have almost written a book debunking your Constantinian religion.

Quote
Prove your case using NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES. Show me where under the New Testament that saints are to keep DAYS, months, years and times, etc. Prove to me and others where in the New Testament are we to OBSERVE days (sabbaths) years, times, etc.

My Jesus is the Christ of the Law and Prophets who came to earth in the Flesh. It was HE that spoke to Cain and Abraham. His Word's are Spirit and they are Life. He lived, walking in His Own Feasts and Sabbaths, not the religious traditions of the mainstream religions of His time. Regarding HIS WORD's in the Holy Scriptures HE DECLARED.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

No matter what the Pope or Oral Roberts preach, the absolute truth is that the Earth Jesus walked, is the SAME Earth that I am walking. Nothing you can say or do will erase this absolute Truth.

No Matter what you or the Pope or Jimmy Swaggart preaches, All of the prophesies pertaining the Messiah, the Christ who became my High Priest, have NOT BEEN Fulfilled.

satan, disguised as a Christian, may deceive you into believing they have, but the absolute Truth is that they have not. I will not reject these absolute Facts just so I can belong to your worldly social club.

 Paul also Honored this Same Christ by denying the religious traditions of the Jews, and following the Commandments of God they had rejected.

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You do not even understand the reason why there are TWO COVENANTS~I say this based upon your teaching concerning salvation from sin and condemnation. But, for now, let us stay with Use any of Paul's teaching and PROVE YOUR POINT. It is time for you to put up, or shut up! Folks hate barking dogs, who bark JUST TO BE BARKING!

I understand fully that the New Covenant you and Pope Preach, is not the Same Covenant the Christ of the Bible Promised and brought.

I have posted HIS WORDS defining HIS NEW Covenant over and over, and you reject them outright.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here it is Red. Here is the Holy Christ telling this World exactly what HIS NEW Covenant is. All you need now is "Faith" that He isn't lying to us.


 After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It is the religions of the land which preach Jesus removed His own Commandments. Jesus never did. At least the Jesus of the Bible never did.

On this the entire Word of God agrees.

 

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #78 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 10:26:54 »

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #79 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 04:22:30 »
Red, I just pointed out two examples of your preaching that can not be supported by the Word of God. I asked you questions about them, and you ignore them over and over. In an honest debate you would answer and explain your statements.
GB, are you on drugs, or just plain dumb when it comes to spiritual truths? I know that you are not honest~that's been seen over and over again. Sir, you have not proven one thing~I asked you to give at least two or three witnesses of New Testament saints keeping the Jewish sabbaths days, and NOWHERE in your two posts have you even provided ONE scripture from the Acts of the apostles of the church epistles....not one. Concerning me ignoring anything you have said is a lie, and any honest person can see this. Now, I will not answer very much in these two posts, for you are as I said in my last post to you:
Quote from: RB on: Yesterday at 03:57:00
The rest of your post is the same regurgitated (repeat errors) mess that you bring up without ever analyzing or comprehending what you are saying and what others point out about your corruption of God's truth.
As far as what I said about seeking eternal life through OT commandments, therefore the Law of Moses and its commandments being weak and unprofitable (Hebrews 7:18), carnal ordinances (Hebrews 9:10), rudiments of the world (Colossians 2:8,20), and beggarly elements in this very epistle (Galatians 4:9)." I will explain in my post to 4WD concerning the question that he asked me~at least with him, he has the gift to use godly, sound logic and reason and generally within the scriptures. There would be much more profit dealing with him than dealing with your circular reasoning, and all of the dishonest tactics that you employ in your post and your lack of bible knowledge overall considered~much we just do not know since you have never said much more than the same old words over and over again, which it has come down to a point that it is not worth dealing with spiritual idiots. I have just a few words to say.
Quote from: GB Reply #78 on: Yesterday at 10:26:54
The religion which preaches that God's Word's can't be trusted unless they were written down after religious men killed Jesus is a phony religion.
What in the world are you talking about? GB, do you not have any other approach in exposing other's errors?  So elementary, that you sound like a little schoolboy trying to make his case. Grown-up and LEARN how to be more honest in you defending what you believe to be the truth, which you have no clue at the moment!  NO ONE is so dumb who would blatantly oppose the truth as to make such a statement, not even you....... maybe, sometimes you have me wondering.
Quote from: GB wanna be prophet
Paul instructed us to "Study" the only Scriptures available to Him in his entire life. His letters were not added to the Law and Prophets until long after they were all dead. These are just Biblical Facts.
Wrong, they were there BEFORE the apostles LEFT THIS WORLD and they READ AND CONSIDERED THEM as the holy scriptures! Need proof?
Quote from: Peter
2nd Peter 3:15-17~"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."
"The OTHER SCRIPTURES proving that Paul's epistles were "ALREADY considered part of the HOLY SCRIPTURES"~ per Peter's own confession~so, like you are on almost every doctrine that you touch, you corrupt and are void of spiritual light and are guilty of what Peter said~
Quote
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction
You added this to your much speaking:
Quote from: GB Reply #78 on: Yesterday at 10:26:54
This is Paul's Teaching Red.

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; (Word of God)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Notice he didn't say words of the Pope, or some worldly recognized "Great Theologian" you pick from the thousands out there. He said "Holy Scriptures", all of which were written down "before" Jesus was killed by men claiming to be God's Children.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
Do you see Paul's Word's here Red? "ALL SCRIPTURE", not just those words which were not even add to the Holy Scriptures until many years after Paul was dead.
Again besides being wrong on what you said~why say this, we ALL believe when used properly that all scriptures is given by inspiration of God and IS profitable~the KEY IS using them properly without wresting them to teach one's bias position, which is all you do.
Quote from: GB the Sabbatarian
You are once again, lying. I have never mentioned meeting or gathering together on the Christ's Sabbaths at all, let alone "only". The Sabbath wasn't made for a social get together, or bingo, or pork barbeques, easter egg hunts.

That is the whole "catholic" tradition you promote.
First, unless you can prove from the NT scriptures that the seventh day of the week is Jesus Christ's Sabbath in the sense in which you are laboring to use it then you are a false prophet pushing one's own private interpretation of the scriptures.

As a side note, I will say this~not sure how many folks are seeing how you cunningly are denying the Deity of Jesus Christ, by referring to him as ONLY the Christ~The Word of God, and never referring to him as JESUS Christ (both God and MAN in one body~Jesus speaking of his humanity as the Son of Man, Christ speaking of his Divinity as the Son of God, proving that he was ONE with God as he walked in this world) the Son of God. You reject Jesus' complex nature being BOTH man and God in one body do you not? Once one admits and UNDERSTAND that Jesus was the Son of God, that confession alone said that they understand that Jesus WAS BOTH man and God in one complex body. Do you believe this to be so?

You NEVER answer my post for you to provide two or three witnesses from the NT (Acts and all of the churches epistles) concerning the seventh day is a Christian day of worship as your brothers the SDA believe and teach.

Enough said concerning your much babbling (and NEVER answered my questions) that you have said many times over already. 
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 04:54:39 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #80 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 08:53:23 »
 author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153469#msg1055153469 date=1577182950]
Quote
GB, are you on drugs, or just plain dumb when it comes to spiritual truths? I know that you are not honest~that's been seen over and over again. Sir, you have not proven one thing~I asked you to give at least two or three witnesses of New Testament saints keeping the Jewish sabbaths days, and NOWHERE in your two posts have you even provided ONE scripture from the Acts of the apostles of the church epistles....not one. Concerning me ignoring anything you have said is a lie, and any honest person can see this.

Your Preaching;

Quote
Paul called the Law of Moses and its commandments weak and unprofitable (Hebrews 7:18), carnal ordinances (Hebrews 9:10), rudiments of the world (Colossians 2:8,20), and beggarly elements in this very epistle (Galatians 4:9)."

My question that I asked many times now that you refuse to answer, then accuse me of taking drugs when I post your own words back to you.

How is it the Gentiles were obeying God's Commandments you preach to the world are Beggarly Elements, Rudiments of the world and Traditions of men, when they didn't even know God? You have deceptively, purposefully deflected and ignored this question, and continue to do so while calling me a liar for pointing it out.

Here is the 2nd whopper you told.

Quote
He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8).

I posted what the Christ actually said;

Matt. 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Obviously Jesus isn't speaking to the Catholic Sabbath here as you preach. Do you explain yourself when I point this out? Do you answer the questions your religious statements generate?

No Red, you refuse to even acknowledge them while calling anyone who would point out these glaring falsehoods and your hypocrisy a liar, a dog, a heretic, etc.

So I'm not on drugs, I'm not lying. I am posting your own preaching back at you, like Stephen did to the Mainstream Preachers of his time.

"When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth."

Quote
I asked you to give at least two or three witnesses of New Testament saints keeping the Jewish sabbaths days, and NOWHERE in your two posts have you even provided ONE scripture from the Acts of the apostles of the church epistles

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost (Feast of Christ) was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Holy Convocation) 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles (two or three witnesses)answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

I have posted your witnesses but it will not matter. You will continue to promote your Constantinian religion regardless of what the Christ of the Bible says.

I know this because He told me.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.




Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #81 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 09:28:01 »
Quote
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153469#msg1055153469 date=1577182950]
GB, are you on drugs, or just plain dumb when it comes to spiritual truths?

Quote
i]The OTHER SCRIPTURES proving that Paul's epistles [/i]were "ALREADY considered part of the HOLY SCRIPTURES"~ per Peter's own confession

It is an historical fact that the New Testament writings wasn't "ADDED" to the Holy Scriptures until 350 some years AD. Your preaching doesn't change this fact.

Also, God's Holy Church was established and began while Paul was still killing innocent believers.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Where is Paul here Red? Where are his Letters you claim are already added to the Holy Scriptures?

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Where is Paul? Jesus has died and been resurrected, and Peter, the Elder of the Christ's Church, is still teaching from the OT? They are gathered on one of the Christ's Fast Days. God has given them the Holy Spirit, all without Paul or his letters.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Where is Paul here Red? Where are his letters?

Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Where is Paul Red? How can these folks be part of God's Church filled with all wisdom, without Paul's Letters? You said they were part of the Holy Scriptures already. Able to make folks wise unto Salvation. How is it Stephen is filled with all wisdom without Paul's Letters?

Acts 7:1 Then said the high priest, Are these things so?

2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

What? Red, they are actually teaching from the exact same "SCRPTURES" Jesus taught from. How can this be? Where is your Paul?


52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Where is Paul's Letters Red? Where did Stephen quote Paul? You said Paul's letters were considered the Holy Scriptures in the New Testament. So here is a person who is filled with the Spirit of the Christ, filled with all wisdom, who is teaching people the Gospel of Christ. Where is Paul?

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

OH, Here he is Red! While the Church of God was being filled with the Spirit of Christ, and were spreading the "Truth of the Gospel", Paul was killing them.

So at some point James and Peter and Paul and Jude wrote letters, mostly addressing the religions of the land and how their traditions and doctrines were infecting the new converts.

These were Spirit filled letters that God had added to His Word later. But the Church was founded, and growing while Paul was still persecuting it. This is a Biblical fact.

When Paul told Timothy to "Study to show himself approved", there was only the Old Testament Paul called the Holy Scriptures. Why would you deny such a simple truth?

2 Tim. 2: 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

So you believe Timothy had Paul's letters as a child? And you call me dumb and dishonest.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So I don't believe that Paul relegated the entire Bible obsolete, in favor of his Letters that didn't even exist in the founding of the True Church of Christ.

So once again, your preaching has been shown to be religious sounding, but can't stand when applied to the actual teaching of the "Holy Scriptures".

You attribute things to Paul that are lies. "Paul calls God's commandments, Beggarly Elements"

You attribute things to Jesus that are lies.

"He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8)."

And you claim Paul Letters were part of the Holy Scriptures he said to study in New Testament times.

When Paul Himself says that He believed "ALL" things written in the Law and Prophets which were inspired by the Same Christ he became a slave to.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So I'm neither dumb, nor a liar. I am just not snared by the prince of this world to further doctrines and traditions of carnal religious men who preach against the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.






« Last Edit: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 07:03:56 by GB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #82 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 11:02:03 »
RB, you might as well just give it up.  GB thinks that he has rejected the religions of the land.  However in throwing out the religions of the land he has thrown out the baby with the bath water and doesn't even know it.

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #83 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 15:19:27 »
It is an historical fact that the New Testament writings wasn't "ADDED" to the Holy Scriptures until 350 some years AD. Your preaching doesn't change this fact.
You are more EOC/Catholic than you want to confess! Where you there? No, and neither was anyone else who believes that lie. I have proven using God's very own testimony from the scriptures that Paul's epistles WHICH WE HAVE STILL WITH US, (the ones that God moved him to write to be part of what we call the Word of God.)  that Peter said were the holy scriptures EVEN IN THEIR DAYS! Your religion will not allow you to believe in 2nd Peter 3:15-17.

Concerning the religion of Mystery Babylon, the truth is even God's people have embraced a certain measure of false religion in their teachings~even though the very elect are not OVERALL deceived on most of their understanding, but some they have been poison thereby, yet have lived to refute some of their past errors, some they may never be rid of~and I include myself in that, even though it grieves me deeply, but truth is truth.
Quote from: Jesus Christ
Mark 16:18~"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
If anyone truly understands this scripture then they would know perfectly what I'm saying is true.  But, I have my doubts that you do. But one more may lead you to understand Mark 16:18:
Quote from: JEUS CHRIST
Luke 10:19-22~"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
WONDERFUL scriptures!

GB, I'm also almost finished talking to you, for it is of no profit for anyone, yet I may come back and say a few more things, but for now, I have grandchildren that are demanding my time and presence and they deserve it more than you do.

« Last Edit: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 15:26:52 by RB »

Offline skeeter

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #84 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 15:40:55 »
It is an historical fact that the New Testament writings wasn't "ADDED" to the Holy Scriptures until 350 some years AD. Your preaching doesn't change this fact.
post where you find this 'historical fact'.  what is your source for what you call a 'historical fact'?

Quote
Also, God's Holy Christ was established and began while Paul was still killing innocent believers.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one pace.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Where is Paul here Red? Where are his Letters you claim are already added to the Holy Scriptures?
study and learn the timelines in scripture.

Quote
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Where is Paul? Jesus has died and been resurrected, and Peter, the Elder of the Christ's Church, is still teaching from the OT? They are gathered on one of the Christ's Fast Days. God has given them the Holy Spirit, all without Paul or his letters.
that's pretty much what he knew - what Jesus had taught him prior to His resurrection.  He did not yet know all that the Christ would teach Paul.

study and learn the timelines in scripture.


Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #85 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 04:23:40 »
post where you find this 'historical fact'.  what is your source for what you call a 'historical fact'?
study and learn the timelines in scripture.
that's pretty much what he knew - what Jesus had taught him prior to His resurrection.  He did not yet know all that the Christ would teach Paul.

study and learn the timelines in scripture.
Good point Skeeter~Paul's knowledge was greater than the other apostles by far~even Peter acknowledge this to be so when he said:
Quote from: Peter's confession of Paul's knowledge of the holy scriptures
2nd Peter 3:16~"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Which epistles we HAVE preserved for us by God, in which we also can agree with Peter, that they are indeed hard to understand without the Spirt's guidance, and even then, no man has ever mastered them completely, where it can be said that he does understand them perfectly~ sad but a humbling fact that keeps us all ever seeking and testing what we believe to be the truth, with the only source of truth~not history, but the word of the Living God.

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #86 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 05:00:03 »
It is an historical fact that the New Testament writings wasn't "ADDED" to the Holy Scriptures until 350 some years AD. Your preaching doesn't change this fact.

Also, God's Holy Christ was established and began while Paul was still killing innocent believers.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Where is Paul here Red? Where are his Letters you claim are already added to the Holy Scriptures?
GB, when I asked you yesterday were you on drugs, of course, I know that you were not, yet I was trying to make a point that in all of your posts, you are so irrational, in the way that you defend your beliefs and I might add downright dishonest.  Now, did I ever say that Paul's epistles we added before Pentecost? You are building a strawman and fighting him not me~why would you make such a statement? Truly it makes you look dishonest, whether or not you are is for God to judge, I can only read your words, and by that it seems to me you are very dishonest, and it probably seems that way to others I would think.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Where is Paul Red? How can these folks be part of God's Church filled with all wisdom, without Paul's Letters? You said they were part of the Holy Scriptures already. Able to make folks wise unto Salvation. How is it Stephen is filled with all wisdom without Paul's Letters?
Really? Can not you do better this? Paul's epistles simply added KNOWLEDGE to those who had the Spirit of God in them already.  Your point is childish and shows a lack of understanding on your part. Your points certainly do not add any strength to your position~actually most likely hurts you more than helps you.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
So at some point James and Peter and Paul and Jude wrote letters, mostly addressing the religions of the land and how their traditions and doctrines were infecting the new converts.
Some yes, but mostly building them up in their most holy faith laboring to help them to understand HIS KNOWLEDGE IN THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST.
Quote from: Paul
Ephesians chapter  three"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
This was Paul's main work, to feed the sheep of God, and warn against those who taught another gospel as you have come to embrace.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
When Paul told Timothy to "Study to show himself approved", there was only the Old Testament Paul called the Holy Scriptures. Why would you deny such a simple truth?
You have never heard me deny such simple truth, and simply they are. You need to repent of being dishonest.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
So you believe Timothy had Paul's letters as a child? And you call me dumb and dishonest.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So I don't believe that Paul relegated the entire Bible obsolete, in favor of his Letters that didn't even exist in the founding of the True Church of Christ.

So once again, your preaching has been shown to be religious sounding, but can't stand when applied to the actual teaching of the "Holy Scriptures".
I'm coming back to finish~RB

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #87 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 06:11:36 »
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
So you believe Timothy had Paul's letters as a child? And you call me dumb and dishonest.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. So once again, your preaching has been shown to be religious sounding, but can't stand when applied to the actual teaching of the "Holy Scriptures".
I have never said that he did, yet the holy scriptures that he did have, were indeed able to make him wise unto the salvation that is in Jesus Christ when rightly applied and understood. The salvation in this verse is the salvation of TRUE KNOWLEDGE, not salvation that depended upon him doing any works of the law to secure his salvation from sin and condemnation~ THAT SALVATION was secured by the obedience of Christ alone and given freely by grace in time by the Spirit of God.
Quote
So I don't believe that Paul relegated the entire Bible obsolete, in favor of his Letters that didn't even exist in the founding of the True Church of Christ.
Never said that it did, again, those are your words, not mine. The word of God is ONE COHEVISE WHOLE and no doctrine is in a vacuum~but can be (will be) supported from both Testaments when rightly understood. Only Paul's epistles ADDED light to the hidden mysteries of God or revealed the truth concealed in the OT scriptures. Per Romans 16. Ephesians 3, etc. mainly through Paul's teachings , yet not limited to Paul as we see above from Ephesians three~
Quote
"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
So once again, your preaching has been shown to be religious sounding, but can't stand when applied to the actual teaching of the "Holy Scriptures".
You have me confused with yourself. Your preaching is more in line with the religion that abounds in Mystery Babylon more than you know, sir.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
You attribute things to Paul that are lies. "Paul calls God's commandments, Beggarly Elements"
I'm planning on dealing with this more at length when I make a post to 4WD in answer to his question, which I believe was asked in all sincerity and deserves a clear cut answer which I pray to God that I can provide.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
And you claim Paul Letters were part of the Holy Scriptures he said to study in New Testament times.
I have stated clearly what I believe about this in spite of your dishonest wording that you present what I believe and teach.
Quote from: GB Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 09:28:01
You attribute things to Jesus that are lies.

"He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He gave us a new Lord’s Day~Sunday (Matthew 12:8)."
He is Lord of ALL~and has given us a NEW COVENANT, under which we worship him 24/7 be it Saturday, Sunday, Monday or any other day of the week! The FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the day he came forth out of the grave victorious, over the powers of darkness, sin and the grave~ and the apostles themselves HONOUR THAT day as a day of coming together into one place to comfort and encourage and learn of him, in order to allow their light to SO SHINE before men that others may see their good works and glorify their Father in heaven who has called them out of darkness into his marvelous light and into a family where we learn to love and serve one another as he left us an example to do until he comes again. 

He is indeed the LORD of lords and KING of kings and we acknowledge him as such every hour of every day until he comes to gather together us unto himself. Selah!
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 07:40:46 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #88 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 07:50:30 »
RB, you might as well just give it up.  GB thinks that he has rejected the religions of the land.  However in throwing out the religions of the land he has thrown out the baby with the bath water and doesn't even know it.

I reject the religions of the land because it's religious leaders teach and promote religious traditions of men which are not founded in the Word of God. Doctrines such as babies are born evil, the resurrection Paul was still hoping to attain to, has already happened, Paul calls God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements", The Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God's Commandments, the Christ's Feast's and Sabbaths are no different than Pagan High Days, God's Law condemned men according to the DNA they were born with, and on and on and on and on.

Jesus also rejected the religions of the land He was born into and sited the same reasons.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I know these offences must come, just as Eve had to be tested with other religious voices. It's part of the "race" that is set before us.

Deut. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life (The Word of God) and death (The Other religious voice), blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Why must we choose? Because as Paul said, we are servant's to whomever we obey. It's either one or the other, it can't be both.








Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #89 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:08:16 »
I reject the religions of the land because it's religious leaders teach and promote religious traditions of men which are not founded in the Word of God.
The problem with that is that,  they just like you, think that they promote religious traditions founded in the Word of God. You fall into the very same trap as they.  Perhaps even a worse trap because you are standing out there all by yourself.  You can find no corroboration or agreement outside of a very, very small cult of like-minded and confused beings.
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:11:22 by 4WD »

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #90 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:17:16 »
 author=skeeter link=topic=105134.msg1055153492#msg1055153492 date=1577223655]

I'm quite sure you will not consider anything that contradicts your own religious doctrines.


Quote
that's pretty much what he knew - what Jesus had taught him prior to His resurrection.  He did not yet know all that the Christ would teach Paul.

study and learn the timelines in scripture.


I see, so in your religion, these scriptures were untrue?

Acts 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

So are you teaching that all this "Faith" and "wisdom" changed or became obsolete after Paul was humbled?

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So then in your religion, neither Peter, nor the Holy Spirit, are believable witnesses? And I can not believe anything that was written before Paul's letters?

Seriously?







Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #91 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:36:10 »
The problem with that is that,  they just like you, think that they promote religious traditions founded in the Word of God. You fall into the very same trap as they.  Perhaps even a worse trap because you are standing out there all by yourself.  You can find no corroboration or agreement outside of a very, very small cult of like-minded and confused beings.

I am always fascinated by the way both you and Red skirt the actual doctrines and traditions you both preach. You both try to make it about me, when all I'm doing is posting your own religion back at you and posting the scriptures which bring it into question.

You pick one word or sentence from my post, and use it to deflect from what the post is about. You ignore and refuse to even acknowledge the scriptures and the point's made about them, and all to hide from the doctrines and traditions of the religions of the land that "YOU KNOW" are not Biblical.

And your whole religious theology that teaches only those religious views which are accepted by "Many" are true is asinine 4WD. Jesus was almost alone in His belief, abandoned by almost everyone when the religions of the land decided to condemn Him.

By His own Word's Jesus condemns your doctrine that "truth" can't be true unless "many" agree with it. It wasn't His fault that folks didn't believe His Word's. It's not my fault that you don't believe many of His Word's either.

I have asked this before, I'll ask it again. What if the Word's of the Christ are Truth, all of them?






Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #92 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:43:20 »
I am always fascinated by the way both you and Red skirt the actual doctrines and traditions you both preach. You both try to make it about me, when all I'm doing is posting your own religion back at you and posting the scriptures which bring it into question.
But that is simply not true.  You are no less confused and misguided by what I or Red post as you are confused and misguided by what God has posted. So when you think you posting our own religion back to us, it isn't; rather what you are posting is your own terribly confused interpretation.  Seldom are any who post here at the GC forum so obviously and terribly wrong as you in so much of what you believe.

Offline 4WD

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #93 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:48:09 »
And your whole religious theology that teaches only those religious views which are accepted by "Many" are true is asinine 4WD.
However not nearly so asinine as your whole religious theology that teaches those religious views which are accepted as true by essentially none.

Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #94 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 08:59:19 »
I'm quite sure you will not consider anything that contradicts your own religious doctrines.
You are unrighteously judging her, just because she rejects what you believe and teach. If she had agreed with you, then you would not have said what you said, or, at least not the way you stated it.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 08:17:16
I see, so in your religion, these scriptures were untrue?

Acts 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

So are you teaching that all this "Faith" and "wisdom" changed or became obsolete after Paul was humbled?
That is not what sheeter said, and neither has anyone so said, that is your dishonest representation of your neighbor's words, which is a sin before God's holy law.  But, what should we expect from those void of truth, just what he received from you, post after post? In your man-made religion lying is common with no convictions of conscience for doing so~it seems, because of your repeating manner of doing so.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 08:17:16
So then in your religion, neither Peter, nor the Holy Spirit, are believable witnesses? And I can not believe anything that was written before Paul's letters?

Seriously?
Why do you constantly keep repeating the same old arguments over and over that has not one thing to do with what folks have said or believe? If you did not just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over again, then you would not have one thing to say that would have any spiritual value to it. Pitiful! Everyone sees this but you~that's call self deception.
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 09:10:59 by RB »

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #95 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 09:46:33 »
Quote
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153506#msg1055153506 date=1577271603]
GB, when I asked you yesterday were you on drugs, of course, I know that you were not, yet I was trying to make a point that in all of your posts, you are so irrational, in the way that you defend your beliefs and I might add downright dishonest.  Now, did I ever say that Paul's epistles we added before Pentecost?

The point I made is that EVERY TIME Paul said "Scriptures" or "Holy Scriptures" he was referring to the Law and Prophets. He didn't write his letters, and tell folks to discard the Law and Prophets. What was revealed to him was what the Holy Scriptures taught. Everything he taught was based on the Law and Prophets. The Spirit of Christ revealed to him what was written.

Your twisting of One verse out of the entire Bible, and one word, "Other", doesn't mean that Paul had knowledge Jesus, Peter, Stephen, James, John, Luke, Mark, Matthew, Zechariahs, Abraham, or anyone NEVER had. You might need to promote this falsehood to convince others that Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" or to convince others that Jesus changed God's Holy Sabbath from the 7th Day to the 1st day of the week in Matt. 12.

But these are just ancient Catholic doctrines and traditions of men that are easily exposed if a man simply follows the Christ's instruction and "lives by" EVERY WORD of God.

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

The "Sons of God" have always known the truth of the Christ, as the Word's of Zechariahs and Simeon clearly show.

2 Pet. 2:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: (In whom the Spirit of God has revealed what was written) 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

You are not mindful of the Holy Prophets Red. You call their teaching, Vain deceit, Rudiments of the world, Beggarly elements. Paul never did this, and Jesus never promoted the Catholic Sabbath. These are lies from the father of lies that you promote, not me. I am just exposing them.









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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #96 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 09:58:13 »
However not nearly so asinine as your whole religious theology that teaches those religious views which are accepted as true by essentially none.

LOL,

you did it again.









 

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #97 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 10:40:11 »
LOL,

you did it again.
LOL

And you are like the Flat Earther who thinks that it is he, in contrast to the rest of the whole world, who knows the truth.

Offline skeeter

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #98 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 12:40:23 »
What was revealed to him was what the Holy Scriptures taught. Everything he taught was based on the Law and Prophets. The Spirit of Christ revealed to him what was written.
where did Paul get the mysteries that he revealed in his teachings?

Quote
Your twisting of One verse out of the entire Bible, and one word, "Other", doesn't mean that Paul had knowledge Jesus, Peter, Stephen, James, John, Luke, Mark, Matthew, Zechariahs, Abraham, or anyone NEVER had.
He didn't have knowledge that Jesus didn't have... he did have knowledge that had not previously been revealed to those living in his time (such as Peter). Where did Paul get that knowledge?


Offline RB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #99 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 15:48:50 »
The point I made is that EVERY TIME Paul said "Scriptures" or "Holy Scriptures" he was referring to the Law and Prophets.
We agree, and if you only say that and leave it be, then we would not be having to deal with your dishonest approach when posting back to those who post to you.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 09:46:33
He didn't write his letters, and tell folks to discard the Law and Prophets. What was revealed to him was what the Holy Scriptures taught. Everything he taught was based on the Law and Prophets.
Agree, and NO ONE has ever said otherwise, except you falsely accusing them, in order to enhance your false teaching of salvation by the works of the law which you believe in and desire others to believe the same.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 09:46:33
The Spirit of Christ revealed to him what was written.
The Spirit of God revealed to him the hidden truths that were hidden in handwriting of ordinances, etc. of their OT scriptures! Which we shall consider maybe in the morning, the Lord willing.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 09:46:33
Your twisting of One verse out of the entire Bible, and one word, "Other", doesn't mean that Paul had knowledge Jesus, Peter, Stephen, James, John, Luke, Mark, Matthew, Zechariahs, Abraham, or anyone NEVER had.
Again I never said that he did before his conversion, yet afterwards, he had more than they all, which is clearly seen and understood by most.
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You might need to promote this falsehood to convince others that Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements"
He did call them that in the sense which I said earlier in this thread, but will go into it even more tomorrow.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 09:46:33
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

The "Sons of God" have always known the truth of the Christ, as the Word's of Zechariahs and Simeon clearly show.
Really? They were indeed children of God and righteous men~yet their knowledge was not even close to NT believers from Paul and afterward.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 13:16,17~"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."
You might want to reconsider what you have just said. Also, we know that even those very disciples that Christ spoke these words to, STILL LACK in much truth, and we know that it came to him over a period of TIME and still left this world with imperfect knowledge just as we all will do! Even the angles of God desire to look into those blessed truths hidden in the word of God.
Quote from: Peter
1st Peter 1:10-12~Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
The Bible is a precious treasure given to us from heaven, that we will never even begin to scratch the surface of its hidden truths because of the dullness of our hearts toward spiritual truth and our affections toward earthly things~Sad, but true.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 09:46:33
You are not mindful of the Holy Prophets Red. You call their teaching, Vain deceit, Rudiments of the world, Beggarly elements. Paul never did this, and Jesus never promoted the Catholic Sabbath. These are lies from the father of lies that you promote, not me. I am just exposing them.
I love the prophets and their teachings and have hidden their truths in my heart and they are my mediations day and night~God which knows the hearts of all men knows that this is so, even though I fall far short of what I desire to do and it grieves me and that he also knows! I will add this, the only thing that you are doing well is that you promote your man-made religion that I know not any other man that is even close to what you promote. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, you are ONE VOICE, as far as I can see, and even yourself have more or less said the same, correct me if I'm wrong. 
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 15:56:29 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #100 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 07:52:33 »
LOL

And you are like the Flat Earther who thinks that it is he, in contrast to the rest of the whole world, who knows the truth.

It's not my fault that I was born into religions which transgress God's Commandments by their own doctrines and traditions of men.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.






 







Offline GB

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #101 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 08:57:54 »
 author=skeeter link=topic=105134.msg1055153533#msg1055153533 date=1577299223]
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where did Paul get the mysteries that he revealed in his teachings?

The same place  Simeon, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ananias got them. From the One and Only Holy Spirit of the Christ.


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He didn't have knowledge that Jesus didn't have... he did have knowledge that had not previously been revealed to those living in his time (such as Peter).

I'm not sure you have biblical evidence to support your implication here that the Holy Spirit of God withheld truths from the Rock Jesus built His Church on, or other prophets and Disciples of the Christ. Not sure where you get this teaching from, here are the word's of Paul himself.

Eph. 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Paul himself said this mystery was revealed to apostles and prophets, not just him as you and Red are implying.


Luke 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Simeon knew.

Is. 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah knew.

Jer. 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Jeremiah knew.

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Where did Paul get that knowledge?[/

I have to go with what the Christ of the Bible inspired to be written.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

So according to Acts, Paul received his knowledge from an "apostle of Christ" who had already received the Holy Spirit, and knew as other Apostles and Prophets, what Simeon and Isaiah knew.

A revelation of the Lord Jesus by the mouths of His Prophets and Apostles, just as Paul said.



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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #102 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 08:58:39 »
It's not my fault that I was born into religions which transgress God's Commandments by their own doctrines and traditions of men.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And yet you are trying to be a Jew outwardly with your law keeping and sabbath keeping.  You don't even understand your own posts.

Sad.   ::frown::

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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #103 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 10:01:30 »
And yet you are trying to be a Jew outwardly with your law keeping and sabbath keeping.  You don't even understand your own posts.

Sad.   ::frown::

I don't prescribe to the popular teaching of the ancient religious voice.

Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (You are already saved)

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject God's Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

I don't think the Bible teaches that I will become "wise unto salvation" by rejecting God's instructions and following the other religious voices in the land.

Besides, by what religious voice do you get your preaching that the Jews were following God's Laws and Sabbaths?

According to my Savior they had rejected His Sabbaths and Laws and were promoting their own. They weren't rejected because they honored God with obedience, they were rejected because they dishonored God with disobedience.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.





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Re: What Did Paul teach about the Sabbath?
« Reply #104 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 11:02:49 »
author=RB link=topic=105134.msg1055153537#msg1055153537 date=1577310530]
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In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, you are ONE VOICE, as far as I can see, and even yourself have more or less said the same, correct me if I'm wrong.

I gave you several witnesses. But you don't believe them.

I posted the Christ's own Word's regarding the Sabbath He Spoke of in Matt. 12, but you reject His own Words and preach to the world that in this verse Jesus changed His Father's Holy Sabbath, to the 1st day of the week.

Matt. 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. (Creator of the 7th Day Sabbath)

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

You accuse me of false teaching, and yet you are the one who completely corrupts the Christ's own Words here to promote your catholic high day.

I will ask you another question that you will most likely ignore or deflect from.

God's Word says the Christ was "slain from the foundation of the World". He also says He knows the end from the beginning.

So then if the Sabbath of the Christ is the 1st day of the Week as you preach because the Catholics preach He was raised from the dead on this day, why did God not just make HIS Holy Sanctified Sabbath on the first Day of the Week in creation? He would surely have known what day Jesus rose from the dead, and yet, His Sabbath is the 7th day. This is because He had already risen before the First Day of the Week. Truly He is "Lord of the Sabbath".

He made it the 7th Day and NEVER even hinted by even one of His Holy Prophets that HIS Sabbath, sanctified and set apart by Him, that HE said to "Remember" through out His Law and Prophets, would be replaced by the 1st day. That is your religion Red, not the Gospel that the Christ or Paul taught.

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Matthew 13:16,17~"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."

How can men see Jesus or Hear Jesus if He wasn't born yet? I would say that "Many" desired to see Him, but were born in the wrong generation.

In your religion, did Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna and the Wise men "Desire to see Him"? And did they? How about Abraham? In your religion, did Abraham desire to see Him? And did he? As Jesus said "Many" desired to see but didn't, but not all as the scriptures clearly teach.

Gal. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You preach to the world that Paul calls God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in this verse. Of course this is another untruth. I asked you how is it these men who knew not God were following God's Commandments, before they knew even Him. Of course you can't answer. This is because Paul was speaking of the "Rudiments of the world" and "Traditions of men" which are "Beggarly Elements", not God's Commandments.

These are just a few of the religious doctrines of men you promote.

All your misdirection, all your deflection, doesn't hide what your own words reveal. I am bringing them into the Light so that you might see them and turn to the Christ of the Bible.