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Offline BlessedCreator

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Requirements of Salvation
« on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:14:01 »
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that
just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures
warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.

A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God,
the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls. This is what the Bible is speaking
of when it says that we must be born again. Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.

John 3:3 KJB
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If all we had to do was simply believe, demons and the wicked heathen would be saved. For there are
innumerable people in this world that war against God and His saints and know the truth.

James 2:19
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

If all we had to do was believe then this verse below would have no meaning.

Matthew 7:14
"because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

We see from the verse below that they that do the will of God, that keep His commandments and precepts
taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible, will be saved. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that He
is the true messiah, that He really is God in the flesh, is the absolute first step anyone must take on the
path of salvation. It is the first commandment of God we must obey, to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
For why would anyone even begin to consider keeping His commandments and obey Him if you didn't believe He
was who He said He was.

Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven."

When it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ it should always be accompanied with the explanation that
obedience, love and duty to and for Him is also required in this faith.

James 2:17
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

We see that faith (trust) in God is really false faith without doing the works of God. What works are these?
These works are the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God. For example, overcoming the world,
and the lusts there of, giving alms, preaching the truth of Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible, encouraging one another, loving one another,
honoring your parents, not hating anyone, not stealing, etc. These are just a few of the many holy commandments
given to us by God in the Holy Bible.

1 John 2:17
"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

If the entire Bible could be summed up in one verse I would choose the following.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Understanding faith and grace.
Faith means to have trust and hope in God.
Grace means the favor of God.
To have faith (trust) in God you must have a good conscious toward Him.
To have a good conscious toward God you must obey Him.
Faith and obedience go hand in hand.
If you are obedient to God's commandments and precepts He will give you true faith, real trust in Him.
He will show you that you can trust in Him by the protection of His Spirit (the Holy Spirit).
Grace and obedience also go hand in hand.
If you are obedient, the grace (favor) of God will be upon you and all that you do.

If you want to be saved from the damnation of Hell, get in the word of God,
start in the New Testament at the gospel of
Matthew, preferably in a King James Bible (link to PDF of complete KJB below) and read every word and do exactly as God's word teaches you.

(please note PDF files can contain contain viruses or malicious code, I believe the file is safe and have downloaded it myself, but make sure it is also safe for you)
http://gffg.info/Jesus/KJBPDF.html (dont worry it does not instantly download)
« Last Edit: Sat May 30, 2020 - 22:30:46 by BlessedCreator »

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Requirements of Salvation
« on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:14:01 »

Offline TrevorL

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #1 on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 21:18:49 »
Greetings BlessedCreator,

I appreciate what you have stated concerning the need to have faith, receive the grace of God in forgiveness and keep the commandments. Your final summary is perhaps a little bit short of what I would suggest though.
Quote
If you want to be saved from the damnation of Hell, get in the word of God, start in the New Testament at the gospel of Matthew, in a King James Bible (PDF above) and read every word and do exactly as God's word teaches you.
What I would suggest is that we need to here the Gospel that the Apostles preached and this is summarised by Luke in Acts 8:5-6,12 as the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ, and believing these things will motivate us to be baptised as did the Samaritans, and this baptism is an identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus Romans 6:1-8. This Gospel is the power of God unto salvation Romans 1:16-17 and we will also by the power of this faith in the Gospel be led unto obedience of the commandments. This sequence seems to be different to what you advocate.

Kind regards
Trevor
« Last Edit: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 21:22:01 by TrevorL »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #2 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 15:35:25 »
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that
just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures
warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.

A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God,
the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls. This is what the Bible is speaking
of when it says that we must be born again. Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.

John 3:3 KJB
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If all we had to do was simply believe, demons and the wicked heathen would be saved. For there are
innumerable people in this world that war against God and His saints and know the truth.

James 2:19
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

If all we had to do was believe then this verse below would have no meaning.

Matthew 7:14
"because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

We see from the verse below that they that do the will of God, that keep His commandments and precepts
taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible, will be saved. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that He
is the true messiah, that He really is God in the flesh, is the absolute first step anyone must take on the
path of salvation. It is the first commandment of God we must obey, to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
For why would anyone even begin to consider keeping His commandments and obey Him if you didn't believe He
was who He said He was.

Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven."

When it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ it should always be accompanied with the explanation that
obedience, love and duty to and for Him is also required in this faith.

James 2:17
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

We see that faith (trust) in God is really false faith without doing the works of God. What works are these?
These works are the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God. For example, overcoming the world,
and the lusts there of, giving alms, preaching the truth of Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible, encouraging one another, loving one another,
honoring your parents, not hating anyone, not stealing, etc. These are just a few of the many holy commandments
given to us by God in the Holy Bible.

1 John 2:17
"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

If the entire Bible could be summed up in one verse I would choose the following.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Understanding faith and grace.
Faith means to have trust and hope in God.
Grace means the favor of God.
To have faith (trust) in God you must have a good conscious toward Him.
To have a good conscious toward God you must obey Him.
Faith and obedience go hand in hand.
If you are obedient to God's commandments and precepts He will give you true faith, real trust in Him.
He will show you that you can trust in Him by the protection of His Spirit (the Holy Spirit).
Grace and obedience also go hand in hand.
If you are obedient, the grace (favor) of God will be upon you and all that you do.

1 Peter 3:21
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the
filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

The above verse is not saying that baptism literally saves us. It is saying that by being baptized
you are keeping God's commandment which will allow you to begin to have a good conscience towards
God because of your obedience. Just as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a commandment, so also is baptism.
Continue seeking God's will in all that you do to continue with a good conscience toward God.

If you want to be saved from the damnation of Hell, get in the word of God,
start in the New Testament at the gospel of
Matthew, in a King James Bible (PDF above) and
read every word and do exactly as God's word teaches you.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

« Last Edit: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 15:41:03 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #2 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 15:35:25 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #3 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 16:48:18 »
No one here is against those verses, that I know of.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #3 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 16:48:18 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #4 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:00:48 »
No one here is against those verses, that I know of.

He wouldn't be a Christian if he would be against those verses.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #4 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:00:48 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #5 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:02:37 »
So what was the point of posting those verses? Is someone denying them?

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #5 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:02:37 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #6 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:24:14 »
So what was the point of posting those verses? Is someone denying them?

The OP suggest this as the narrow path to salvation:

A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God,
the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls. This is what the Bible is speaking
of when it says that we must be born again. Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.


Except, if you don't have any objection to those OP statements.

So, I posted the verses, to somehow remind the readers to stay focus on what those scriptures says concerning the salvation of God. That the truth about salvation, for the Jew and the Gentile, is:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #7 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 17:38:01 »
If he disagrees with those verses so be it. I’m not sure he does though. Same as you think I don’t believe those verses.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #8 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 18:13:28 »
If he disagrees with those verses so be it. I’m not sure he does though. Same as you think I don’t believe those verses.

We Christians all believe all of God's words in scriptures. The matter is with understanding scriptures.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #8 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 18:13:28 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #9 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 18:43:42 »
Absolutely

Offline Johnb

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #10 on: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 20:34:11 »
So we can only learn truth about God through the KJV ?  Lol
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 24, 2020 - 20:36:23 by Johnb »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #11 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 05:03:49 »
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved.
Greetings BlessedCreator, I see that you see the need to correct others misunderstanding of an important doctrine as "you" see it, and that's okay, just be prepared to defend what you think is imperative to correct others on....you just may find yourself defending an unscriptural position even though your intentions may be motivated by a zeal for the truth, one that itself needs correction, much like the Jews who opposed the apostles.
Quote from: Paul
Romans 10:1-4~"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Sir, after reading your post (and it did not take me very long to see) your remind me that you are of this same category of men that have a zeal of God, but that zeal is not according to TRUE BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE how one gives EVIDENCE that he/she has the righteousness of God, or how that righteousness that is revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ is obtained.
Quote from: BlessedCreator  on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:14:01
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.
It looks as though your article were copied and pasted~so I'm not sure if this is your words or you are just following someone else, and truly it matters little~ you by posting this are telling anyone that reads this that you believe this.
Quote from: BlessedCreator  on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:14:01
. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.
Sir, you are using the words salvation/save/saved with a swipe of a brush in a very limited sense, which is the means of leading that person into error concerning the doctrine of soteriology. Salvation is presented to us in the holy scriptures in a much BROADER SENSE~not just in the sense of being saved from sin and condemnation, which many limit the words "salvation/save/saved" using it only in that sense.  Time will not permit me to prove that it is used in at least five different senses in the bible~but can and will if needed.

Salvation from sin and condemnation was SECURED totally by Jesus' faith, righteousness, and obedience, for his people among both Jews and Gentiles. This phase of our salvation we added not ONE thing to this phase of our salvation, for it was ALL according to the will and GRACE of God~so to use the words HARD or EASY, as far as referring to us securing salvation from sin and condemnation is to wander off into a work gospel that man does in a "certain degree" have a part in receiving eternal life in the world to come. THIS phase of our salvation was SECURED 100% by Jesus Christ, and it WAS HARD for HIM, not us~proven by the great sweat of blood  (Luke 22:44..."as it were"...) that came from him as he was praying just before his death on the cross for the sins of his people. I do not think any of us have ever done this, not even close.
Quote
A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls.
You need to choose your words differently to be scriptural. Such as: "A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible in the practical phase of our salvation is a MUST in order for us to receive God's best for us while living in this world!"...... is required the evidence of all those that seek the salvation of their souls the world to come as promised by God to us THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ!

The way that you said it, is a gospel with WORKS WRITTEN ALL OVER IT! No two children of God are the same in their practical walk with God, if you believe otherwise then prove it. Once a person takes your route, then that route is very JUDGEMENTAL toward other believers, judging them to SEE if they live the same that YOU DO, believing the SAME doctrines that YOU DO. etc. etc. I know, been there and seen it over the years. Consider Abraham and Lot BOTH righteous before God~ yet so different in so many ways! Their WHOLE life from the beginning to the very end.
Quote from: BlessedCreator  on: Thu Apr 23, 2020 - 17:14:01
Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.

John 3:3 KJB
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If all we had to do was simply believe, demons and the wicked heathen would be saved. For there are
innumerable people in this world that war against God and His saints and know the truth.

James 2:19
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

If all we had to do was believe then this verse below would have no meaning.
Coming back later to consider what you are saying here. So much error within these few short words.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #12 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 05:58:49 »
We Christians all believe all of God's words in scriptures. The matter is with understanding scriptures.
Oh so true.  And it would seem that you do not understand any of the scriptures that BlessedCreator posted in the OP.  Or you obviously think the scriptures you posted somehow negate or override all those posted in the OP.  I would, however, that the KJV is not the best English version of the Scriptures to study from.  Better to look to other more modern English verses.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #13 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 06:31:00 »
Sir, after reading your post (and it did not take me very long to see) your remind me that you are of this same category of men that have a zeal of God, but that zeal is not according to TRUE BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE how one gives EVIDENCE that he/she has the righteousness of God, or how that righteousness that is revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ is obtained.
RB, I and several others here would make that very same statement about you and others whose soteriology lines up with yours.
Quote from: RB
Sir, you are using the words salvation/save/saved with a swipe of a brush in a very limited sense, which is the means of leading that person into error concerning the doctrine of soteriology. Salvation is presented to us in the holy scriptures in a much BROADER SENSE~not just in the sense of being saved from sin and condemnation, which many limit the words "salvation/save/saved" using it only in that sense.
And of course in that respect BlessedCreator is absolutely correct. Salvation/saved/saved when speaking of the spiritual is used only in the one sense of saved from sin and condemnation.  Your other four "difference senses" are pure concoctions ginned up to align with the false soteriology of the Reformed Theology.
Quote
Time will not permit me to prove that it is used in at least five different senses in the bible.....
You are correct that time will not permit you to prove your thesis of the five different senses because there are not five different senses when the subject is the saving of the spirit rather than the flesh; there is only one.
Quote from: RB
Salvation from sin and condemnation was SECURED totally by Jesus' faith, righteousness, and obedience, for his people among both Jews and Gentiles.
That is certainly true.  But then salvation for sin and condemnation was SECURED totally by Jesus' faith, righteousness, and obedience for the whole world, not just a few.  And here again we see your fallacy of Limited Atonement bubbly up from the mud pots of Reformed Theology.
Quote from: RB
The way that you said it, is a gospel with WORKS WRITTEN ALL OVER IT!
But that is because you do not understand the way in which the word WORKS is used in Scripture, particularly the NT. You concoct five different meanings for the word "saved" as it is used in the spiritual sense, but insist there is only one possible meaning for the word "works".  You err in both.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #14 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 10:00:53 »
4WD I will go down this pig trail.  Yes it is amazing how some folks define works.  Belief is not a work hearing is not a work confessing is not a work repentance (changing your course) is not a work but letting someone dunk you in water somehow becomes a work.  Yet folks are told to just believe and say the “sinners prayer” something no one has been able to give me a definition of and even more important a single reference in scripture to a sinners prayer. 

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #15 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 11:24:34 »
Quote from: Michael2012 on Yesterday at 18:13:28
We Christians all believe all of God's words in scriptures. The matter is with understanding scriptures.
Oh so true.  And it would seem that you do not understand any of the scriptures that BlessedCreator posted in the OP.

I would seem to you as such, as you would seem to me as such.

Or you obviously think the scriptures you posted somehow negate or override all those posted in the OP.

It's not about the scriptures that BC posted. Rather, it's his misuse of said scriptures.

The scriptures I posted, if you had read all my posts in this thread, as I said, was for this, and I quote:

Quote from: Michael Reply#6
So, I posted the verses, to somehow remind the readers to stay focus on what those scriptures says concerning the salvation of God. That the truth about salvation, for the Jew and the Gentile, is:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

I know you believe those scriptures, as all Christians should. But, what do you hear these scriptures say to you?

I would, however, that the KJV is not the best English version of the Scriptures to study from.  Better to look to other more modern English verses.

No problem 4WD. Here's a more modern English version. If you prefer another, just say so.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #16 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 11:35:50 »
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Could you perhaps post all of that in 14pt or 18pt or 28pt and perhaps in more colors? As it is, I am afraid you are not getting your message across. Or maybe you could stick your head out the door and just scream out at the top of your lungs.  But then, most likely it is not the verses; rather it is your message that is failing.
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 11:38:13 by 4WD »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #17 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 11:58:11 »
Could you perhaps post all of that in 14pt or 18pt or 28pt and perhaps in more colors? As it is, I am afraid you are not getting your message across. Or maybe you could stick your head out the door and just scream out at the top of your lungs.  But then, most likely it is not the verses; rather it is your message that is failing.

That is for emphasis and to get the attention of the reader. Do you need me to emphasize that even more to you? Perhaps not. Obviously it's effective the way it is, as proven by your post.

All you have going there is complain. First, the version. Now the size and colors.




Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #18 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 11:59:57 »
4WD I will go down this pig trail.  Yes it is amazing how some folks define works.  Belief is not a work hearing is not a work confessing is not a work repentance (changing your course) is not a work but letting someone dunk you in water somehow becomes a work.  Yet folks are told to just believe and say the “sinners prayer” something no one has been able to give me a definition of and even more important a single reference in scripture to a sinners prayer.

Baptism in water should not be a work, but it becomes one sometimes.  The 5 Steps of Salvation is just as biblical as the Sinner's Prayer.  Salvation is not a formula.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #19 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 13:19:25 »
That is for emphasis and to get the attention......
The actions of a spoiled little brat throwing a fit....  ::crackup::

Offline lea

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #20 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 14:35:47 »
BlessedCreator  said:
Quote
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that
just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures
warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.

Hi there!  Did you know that Jesus was referring to his kinsmen Jews when He said "few will find it?"

The narrow path was for His brethren at the time.  2/3  of the Jews were cut off at the time of God's wrath on them in AD 66-70. Only a remnant was saved so that they became believers in Christ , not the Law, in the end times of the old covenant Judaism.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #21 on: Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 15:24:45 »
Tex I am not promoting a formula or a 5 step plan just pointing out things not called works but draw the line at baptism. Yes being saved is not a formula it is belief and obedience to the best of your knowledge.  All the things I mentioned are in scripture.  The sinners prayer is not.

Online RB

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #22 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 03:43:08 »
BlessedCreator  said:
Hi there!  Did you know that Jesus was referring to his kinsmen Jews when He said "few will find it?"

The narrow path was for His brethren at the time.  2/3  of the Jews were cut off at the time of God's wrath on them in AD 66-70. Only a remnant was saved so that they became believers in Christ , not the Law, in the end times of the old covenant Judaism.


Please, keep those lies in own yard here: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/~you guys by the time you labor to interpret everything into 66-70 A.D (a time period that has NO biblical sufficient)  there is NO BIBLE left to believe that it was written to EVERY saint throughout the church history untot he end of this "present" world

So, PLEASE as we would tell folks walking their dog KEEP THE DUNG in your own yard, and we will promise you not to walk therein for all of the landmines of lies!

You folks penknife God's word to pieces that do not support your doctrine and, not one scripture DOES! 70 A.D. is much like the secret Rapture lie, IF we have never heard of it, then we would never believe it from the scriptures for the simple reason IT IS NOT THERE, it's a lie from the pits of darkness.
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 03:45:17 by RB »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #23 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 04:52:04 »
RB, I and several others here would make that very same statement about you and others whose soteriology lines up with yours.
Oh, without question, they would~BUT, making it and proving are two totally different things~now, you are wise enough to know this, so why not work to prove it, instead of coming out of your doghouse and barking just to be barking!
Quote from: A Preacher of the gospel of JESUS CHRIST who warned us against barking dogs
Philippians 3:1-4~"Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:"
Your "inordinate" affection for YOUR flesh has your mind blinded to the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ to speak mildly. Those saints whose trust is in JESUS CHRIST ALONE have no confidence in their flesh which if understood would DEFINE WHAT ARE WORKS thereof that Paul and the word of God puts a cursed UPON for those seeking eternal life by their own works.
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
And of course in that respect BlessedCreator is absolutely correct.
Well, let him defend what he has posted, and you can ADD to it if you feel he's correct. So, far, he has not done so.
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
Salvation/saved/saved when speaking of the spiritual is used only in the one sense of saved from sin and condemnation.  Your other four "difference senses" are pure concoctions ginned up to align with the false soteriology of the Reformed Theology.
I have no clue what you mean when you said: "Salvation/saved/saved when speaking of the spiritual" and neither do you! Well, without question those words are NOT used in the same sense, for anyone believing they ae only shows their ignorance of the bible and if they refuse to even consider that it is, proves their disdain for TRUTH and even seeking it!

How would you apply this scripture:
Quote
Romans 13:11~"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."
WHAT salvation was nearer that Paul said that they had NOT as of yet OBTAIN? I know do you? How about this one, among hundreds, we could provide:
Quote from: The HOLY GHOST
Matthew 1:21~"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall people from their sins."
What phase of our salvation is this speaking of which we had NOT ONE THING to do with? Need help, I'm pretty sure you do. But I'll wait. I could keep going for many hours, but we shall wait and see what you have to say.
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
You are correct that time will not permit you to prove your thesis of the five different senses because there are not five different senses when the subject is the saving of the spirit rather than the flesh; there is only one.
Wishful thinking Mr. 4WD. Even you believe in TWO~what Christ did and made available to you and YOUR PART in being baptized FOR the remission of your sins...(using your words not mine)....both as you would word it~
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
is the saving of the spirit rather than the flesh
You added:
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
That is certainly true. But then salvation for sin and condemnation was SECURED totally by Jesus' faith, righteousness, and obedience for the whole world, not just a few.  And here again we see your fallacy of Limited Atonement bubbly up from the mud pots of Reformed Theology.
(Red highlights are mine for discussion~RB) So, are you areeging that the LEGAL phase of our salvation was SECURED by Christ's faith, righteousness and obedience when he said it is FINISHED? For that is INDEED the gospel in its purest and as taught in the holy scriptures.

Secondly, if what you are saying that Christ's obedience secured righteousness for every single person, then the JUSTICE of God MUST acquit every single person or God would NOT be just if the payment for sin has been paid IN FULL. That would be DOUBLE JEOPHARY and even man with all of his unrighteousness has laws AGAINST such a thing! We could spend a lot of time here. but we shall wait to add more later.
Quote from: 4WD Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:31:00
But that is because you do not understand the way in which the word WORKS is used in Scripture, particularly the NT. You concoct five different meanings for the word "saved" as it is used in the spiritual sense, but insist there is only one possible meaning for the word "works".  You err in both.
Works as Paul opposed it is easily understood by me from his writings and I'm pretty sure I can defend it just as I can the different senses the words Salvation/save/saved are used in the bible. Your doctrine of baptism FOR the remission of sins is a WORK GOSPEL easily proven by such scriptures:
Quote from: Luke
Acts 15:1-2~"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question."
Let me ask you a question: is circumcision a work ADDED to the gospel of Jesus Christ?  Would you consider one being circumcized IN ORDER TO BE SAVED from their sins and the condemnation of God's law A WORK on their part?  It certainly is~well now, one being baptized IN ORDER TO BE SAVED from their sin is more than a work on that person' part than being circumcized~just compare the two and you tell me which ONE is more ACTIVE in participating in each activity? Without question, the one being baptized is much more active! Even though very close.   
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:56:24 by RB »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #24 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 05:33:40 »
Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience, whether they be works or not works, it does not change the truth that salvation is of God and not of man, that salvation is by God's grace.

BRETHREN:

SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.

SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:(KJV)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)




Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience, whether they be works or not works, it does not change the truth that it is God who justifies and not man.

BRETHREN:

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)

Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:01:39 by Michael2012 »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #25 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:19:29 »
Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience, whether they be works or not works, it does not change the truth that salvation is of God and not of man, that salvation is by God's grace.

BRETHREN:

SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.

SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:(KJV)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)




Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience, whether they be works or not works, it does not change the truth that it is God who justifies and not man.

BRETHREN:

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)

Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)

Michael,Just one question. What is Gods grace and how is it applied if not by "Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience," according to scripture just how does one come into the grace of God??

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #26 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:22:18 »
Is not Gods grace simply his preordained plan to save mankind and his instructions on how one is to enter into that grace?

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #27 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:29:56 »
That ‘s why we see it as God saving us and the other side sees it as Oh my God, you think you save yourself. Centuries old debate over the basics of God’s grace.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #28 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:52:47 »
Michael,Just one question. What is Gods grace and how is it applied
Yogi, I will allow Michael to answer this in-depth, but I will give you a "one-word" answer.  Election~
Quote
Romans 11:5,6~"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Quote from: yogi bear on: Today at 06:19:29
if not by "Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience," according to scripture just how does one come into the grace of God??
These things are the EVIDENCE that God's grace has been freely given to us according to the riches of his MERCY to us THROUGH and on the BEHALF OF Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 06:55:07 by RB »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #29 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 07:13:27 »
Yogi, I will allow Michael to answer this in-depth, but I will give you a "one-word" answer.  Election~These things are the EVIDENCE that God's grace has been freely given to us according to the riches of his MERCY to us THROUGH and on the BEHALF OF Jesus Christ.
Red with all due respect I have to say it appears you do not understand the biblical meaning of " Election" as well as how one is elected.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #30 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 07:59:37 »
Oh, without question, they would~BUT, making it and proving are two totally different things~now, you are wise enough to know this, so why not work to prove it, instead of coming our of your doghouse and barking just to be barking!
And you think you also do anything but bark??
Quote from: RB
Your "inordinate" affection for YOUR flesh has your mind blinded to the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ to speak mildly. Those saints whose trust is in JESUS CHRIST ALONE have no confidence in their flesh which if understood would DEFINE WHAT ARE WORKS thereof that Paul and the word of God puts a cursed UPON for those seeking eternal life by their own works.
And that is the perfect example of your barking.  RB, I have never ever said, nor even suggested, that anyone can seek eternal live by their own works.  That you continue to repeat that again and again is among the loudest barking to appear hear at the forum.
Quote from: RB
I have no clue what you mean when you said: "Salvation/saved/saved when speaking of the spiritual" and neither do you! Well, without question those words are NOT used in the same sense, for anyone believing they ae only shows their ignorance of the bible and if they refuse to even consider that it is, proves their disdain for TRUTH and even seeking it!
Oh but I do know what I mean.  It is you, RB, who are so confused that you have no way to know whether or not you have been saved, spiritually.  That is one of the fundamental fatalities of the Reformed Theology.  If indeed salvation, in whatever way you want to think of it, is a state of being preordained by God "without any consideration of merit within the individual", then there is no consideration of merit within the individual that would demonstrate or establish that state of being.  Now that is fact.

There is only one way to understand spiritual salvation for any one individual at any instant in that individual's life.  If at any instant in the life of an individual he were to die he would at that instant be delivered from the consequences of his sin, i.e, eternal condemnation, into the eternal life with Christ in heaven.

Concerning Romans 13:11, you asked.
Quote from: RB
WHAT salvation was nearer that Paul said that they had NOT as of yet OBTAIN?
The salvation that I defined above fits perfectly to the salvatoin that Paul was speaking of in Romans 13:11.  And that definition and understanding of salvation, when speaking of the spiritual, fits perfectly with every mention of salvation throughout Scripture.

All of your attempts to define this phase or that phase is pure poppycock; it is a thrashing around in a sea of confusion about what the salvation of the soul (the spirit) is.  The definition and meaning that I presented serves perfectly for the salvation that Paul spoke of in Romans 13:11 and it serves perfectly for those Matthew spoke of as being saved from their sins in Matthew 1:21.  It serves perfectly whether you wish to think about it retroactively to the past or actively to the present and future.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #31 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 08:19:34 »
Hi lea,

Your comment #20 deserves manna.  It’s quite true that the “narrow path” to salvation with “few” that found it applied ONLY to the REMNANT of the ETHNIC JEWS in that first-century generation.  This was NOT intended to put an all-time-and-forever narrow limit on salvation for ALL mankind.  If it were, we would not have God testifying that He intended to “bring MANY SONS INTO GLORY” (Heb. 2:10), or that Christ was the “Firstborn among MANY BRETHREN” (Rom. 8:29). 

Also, we would not have John testifying of his vision in Rev.7:9 of a “GREAT MULTITUDE WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER of all nations and kindreds, and people, and tongues”, standing in God’s presence.  And this unnumbered multitude only represented the number of those coming out of “The great tribulation” -  this unnumbered multitude was only a FRACTION of the total number of all the children of God from creation forward who had NOT passed through the Great Tribulation period of AD 66-70.

So, a “great multitude which no man could number” was an amount that would eventually be multiplied many times over - hardly a matching description for the other group of the “FEW” who would attain salvation through that “narrow gate”. 



To my dear brother RB,

You and I are in agreement concerning the several aspects of salvation that scripture presents - not just one sense of it.  But I would have to part company with you when you limit salvation’s total numbers to a total of only a “few” coming through a narrow gate.  That is because scripture definitely gives us more optimistic amounts for the vast number of those who will attain salvation in the complete sense that ends in a glorified condition of body, soul and spirit in heaven.

You have said that you believe that brethren can differ in their doctrinal knowledge without forfeiting that final state of salvation, (such as Abraham and Lot).  You have said that we cannot be judgmental of those that differ in this manner.  If you truly believe this, then why are you pouring such judgmental vitriol on lea’s comment regarding the “narrow gate” that applied only to Isaiah’s remnant of the Jews, that Paul said was then present in his days (Rom. 9:27 and 11:5)? This makes you appear double-minded, brother.  Either you believe in practicing mercy to those who differ from you in your understanding of scripture, or you don’t.

Simply because lea and I hold to Preterist doctrines (of varying kinds) does not require that we post ONLY in the Preterist forum.  Many NON-Preterists post frequently and regularly in that forum, so the same liberty applies to Preterists posting in other forums as well. 

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #32 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 08:26:30 »
Yogi, I will allow Michael to answer this in-depth, but I will give you a "one-word" answer.  Election~These things are the EVIDENCE that God's grace has been freely given to us according to the riches of his MERCY to us THROUGH and on the BEHALF OF Jesus Christ.
There is not a single person in all of history that you can point to where those things establish that God's grace has been given.  You cannot even point to those things as assurance that God's grace has been given you, let alone anyone else. That is because, the first question that must be asked is, "How much hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience, etc. does it take to provide the evidence that God's grace has been freely given?"  And you have no answer because there is no answer.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #33 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 08:50:34 »
Michael,Just one question. What is Gods grace and how is it applied if not by "Hearing, repenting, believing, confessing, baptism, obedience," according to scripture just how does one come into the grace of God??

God's grace applied?

God gives grace. It is not applied.

What is God's grace?

I'll give the shortest, but most direct and clearest answer to that ~ JESUS CHRIST.
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 09:31:20 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #34 on: Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 09:14:17 »
Is not Gods grace simply his preordained plan to save mankind and his instructions on how one is to enter into that grace?

That ‘s why we see it as God saving us and the other side sees it as Oh my God, you think you save yourself. Centuries old debate over the basics of God’s grace.

No sirs.

Instructions on how one is to enter into that grace? What does that even mean ~ enter into that grace? Grace is unmerited and is freely given to all that God had chosen to give it.

Instructions on how one is to enter into that grace?  Is not the eating of the fruit of only one tree among the many food trees given by God to Adam, the father of all humankind, not a very very simple and very very easy instruction to keep and obey? Tell us then how was it that the innocent Eve and Adam failed to follow such instruction of God? Are you saying you are different from whom you came from? Are you any different from the tree whence you came from? If you came from an apple tree, and so a fruit thereof, will you not be an apple? And if you are, will you not become to be an apple tree like your parents? And if you will be, will you not bring forth fruit, that is, apples? Well, nature does not lie.

Now, do you expect yourself or any, of the kind of Adam, born of the humankind, who already also had failed like Adam and Eve, to follow those instructions of God you are referring to on how one is save himself or how one is saved, when Adam and Eve, were not able to keep the ONE SINGLE very very simple and easy instruction that God gave, that involves life and death?

What do you say?