Author Topic: Requirements of Salvation  (Read 2163 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #105 on: Wed Apr 29, 2020 - 05:29:59 »
Nothing in those verses refute the subject of the OP  --  Requirements of [for] Salvation.
"If" understood in light of the gospel of Jesus Christ then it most certainly does! In a few words please consider:
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

There's a lot to see here that the able eyes can see.

Do you see that the salvation of God is by grace?
Yes, by UNCONDITIONAL grace, for grace and works are diametrically opposite per the man of God writing under the inspiration of Almighty God.
Quote from: The apostle Paul...hear ye him!
Romans 11:5,6~"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Works can be defined as ANY work that man has an active part in, PERIOD! Just as we explained it above (Replies # 23, 55).
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Do you see that the salvation of God is through faith?
Yes, but NOT man's faith, by the faith of JESUS CHRIST, the ONLY sense that fits with Ephesians 2:5-9, and Galatians 2:16-5:4 where Paul explains the gospel of Jesus Christ and FREE justification through Christ's faith "alone"~for it is impossible for the natural man to have faith! Paul clearly said:
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
The faith that saved God's children was NOT of themselves, it WAS the gift of God to them on the behalf of JESUS CHRIST, who was the ONLY man that ever lived that had PERFECT faith in God, which only the law of God could declare as  "NO condemnation" is found in that man that has such faith! We were chosen IN Christ from eternity past and placed IN Christ, where grace was freely given to us and when he was conceived in the womb of Mary, God viewed each elect IN HIM from conception to the death on the cross to where he NOW sits at God's right hand of power. It is all in the word of God, and can easily be proved! From the Psalms of David to right in these every scripture under consideration!
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Ephesians 2:4-10~"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
These scriptures, when taken TOGETHER, should help anyone to understand exactly what Paul is teaching us! Salvation from start (in eternity past) to its consummation in the world to come, is totally 100% unconditional free grace without any works in consideration lest any man boast!
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Do you see that the salvation of God is not of yourself or of your doing?
Absolutely!!  How can man met ANY CONDITIONS seeing that he is at enmity against God, not just an enemy, which is bad enough, but one that is at WAR with the very God that created him in so much as he hates the very thought of God and said in his heart..."Who is the LORD that I should obey him just as proud Pharoah said...remember?  I think he found out who the LORD GOD was did he not?
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Do you see that the salvation of God is not of works?
In many different ways. Even now after I have been serving God for almost fifty years, I SEE in my flesh a war going on between the "two Adams" every day that I live in this world, it NEVER ceases to be, so that within itself shows me that if that is so, then I KNOW it would be IMPOSSIBLE for one to please God apart from the INDWELLING Spirit of God, IMPOSSIBLE if his flesh depended on it pleasing God without the Spirit of God being IN a person.
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Do you see that the saved are God's workmanship?
Yes indeed. The very desire to please God is a GIFT given and the power to do so is without question freely given~per such scriptures as John 1:12,13; etc.
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Do you see that the saved are a new creation in Christ, by God?
I do, and I'm eternally grateful!  I'm reminded of such scriptures as 1st Corinthians 1:17-31; etc.
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Yesterday at 12:02:39
Or do you not see all that, so much so that you agree with what BC said in the OP?
The gentleman was confused and deceived which I posted a post (Reply #11) proving it, and now waiting on him to answer it. 
« Last Edit: Wed Apr 29, 2020 - 10:03:33 by RB »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #105 on: Wed Apr 29, 2020 - 05:29:59 »

Offline BlessedCreator

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #106 on: Thu May 07, 2020 - 17:33:25 »
Faith means to have trust/confidence in God.
You can't have trust in God without having a good conscience toward God.
You can't have a good conscious toward God without obeying Him.
Believing in Jesus is the first commandment of God we are told to obey.
There are many other commandments we must live in obedience unto if we desire to be saved.

We are told in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJB
"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We see just from those 2 verses alone that there is a standard of righteous and holy living that God requires of us if we are to be counted worthy.
That is what is being spoken of in James 2:26 where it says faith without works is dead.

The works are not any righteous or holy works of our own, but of God. The works are the will of God, told to us through the commandments and precepts taught in the Holy Bible.

Without obedience unto God's will, your faith is dead, you are not living a holy life, and you will not see the Lord.

Hebrews 12:14 KJB
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: "

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #107 on: Thu May 07, 2020 - 18:53:08 »
@BlessedCreator

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Major end time events are unfolding on the world stage. We are drawing close to the revealing of the antichrist (false messiah). If you'd like to check out my ministry work click into my profile for more details.

I did....." If you'd like to check out my ministry work click into my profile for more details."


First sentence in your first article told me I did not want to read more.

Yet I did.


Article 5, in entirety, Is silly at best.


Article 6, By personal example I can tell you why you are wrong on both accounts.


Article 7, is valid. And that is when "they" started to refer to the " old God"and say
the "new God" wants you happy.

All in all, I simply am at such opposite views on so much of your beliefs, especially your experience in the bathtub,  I shall let you be.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #107 on: Thu May 07, 2020 - 18:53:08 »

Offline lea

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #108 on: Thu May 07, 2020 - 20:01:33 »
Faith means to have trust/confidence in God.
You can't have trust in God without having a good conscience toward God.
You can't have a good conscious toward God without obeying Him.
Believing in Jesus is the first commandment of God we are told to obey.
There are many other commandments we must live in obedience unto if we desire to be saved.

We are told in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJB
"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We see just from those 2 verses alone that there is a standard of righteous and holy living that God requires of us if we are to be counted worthy.
That is what is being spoken of in James 2:26 where it says faith without works is dead.

The works are not any righteous or holy works of our own, but of God. The works are the will of God, told to us through the commandments and precepts taught in the Holy Bible.

Without obedience unto God's will, your faith is dead, you are not living a holy life, and you will not see the Lord.

Hebrews 12:14 KJB
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: "
2Tim.3:16Every scripture [is] divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; 17that the man of God may be complete, fully fitted to every good work.

The fruits of the Spirit I think, measures our holiness. Every good work should be done with love in mind.

Just me opining.
« Last Edit: Thu May 07, 2020 - 20:06:08 by lea »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #108 on: Thu May 07, 2020 - 20:01:33 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #109 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 03:11:27 »
Faith means to have trust/confidence in God.
You can't have trust in God without having a good conscience toward God.
You can't have a good conscious toward God without obeying Him.
Believing in Jesus is the first commandment of God we are told to obey.
There are many other commandments we must live in obedience unto if we desire to be saved.

We are told in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJB
"9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We see just from those 2 verses alone that there is a standard of righteous and holy living that God requires of us if we are to be counted worthy.
That is what is being spoken of in James 2:26 where it says faith without works is dead.

The works are not any righteous or holy works of our own, but of God. The works are the will of God, told to us through the commandments and precepts taught in the Holy Bible.

Without obedience unto God's will, your faith is dead, you are not living a holy life, and you will not see the Lord.

Hebrews 12:14 KJB
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: "

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

That is the will of God for man in two commandments.

Is man, by and on his own, able to do that?
Will doing that save him?
« Last Edit: Fri May 08, 2020 - 03:51:05 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #109 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 03:11:27 »



Offline RB

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #110 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 05:26:33 »
Faith means to have trust/confidence in God. You can't have trust in God without having a good conscience toward God. You can't have a good conscious toward God without obeying Him. Believing in Jesus is the first commandment of God we are told to obey. There are many other commandments we must live in obedience unto if we desire to be saved.
I assumed that your post was to me, yet not totally sure. So I'll be short and let you tell us as to whom you were posting.
Quote from: BlessedCreator Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 17:33:25
Faith means to have trust/confidence in God.
"Faith" is a large subject and truly would be needed to be broken down into several aspects before its true biblical meaning is understood correctly.

Faith in one biblical sense does mean to have confidence in God's testimony as it is revealed to us in the scriptures as the supreme and only source of doctrine in everything~used in this sense we as believers believe in "Sola Scriptura" sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice.

But to cut through all the theological debates and to keep this very short, the question that must be addressed is "WHOSE FAITH LEGALLY JUSTIFY US BEFORE GOD'S LAW?" Is it the faith of Jesus Christ, or man's? A man's answer to this question will reveal the gospel that he is trusting in to obtain eternal life in the world to come.

The gospel of Jesus Christ clearly reveals to us that the sinner is FREELY justified by the obedience, unrighteousness, and faith OF Jesus Christ, not by the works of man, which faith is man's greatest act that pleases God and opens up the door of heaven upon the man/woman that trust totally in God in every area of one's life. The true gospel reveals HOW man has faith............through being chosen IN Christ from before the foundation of the world and place in him as members of his chosen body. All that Christ did, it was as though THEY DID THE SAME, and truly by the doctrine of imputation THEY DID.

Another gospel  which truly is not another (for there is ONLY ONE true gospel) teaches that man must do this, that, etc., BEFORE he will ever truly be saved from his sins and God's condemnation of those sins.

Also, the scriptures teach us that the very faith that a child of God has, and lives by is FREELY given to us on the behalf of Jesus Christ, who ALONE had faith. The very life of faith that a child of God lives by was earned for us BY CHRIST.
Quote from: Paul
Galatians 2:16-21~"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
This is the true gospel IN A NUTSHELL, not John 3:16~these few scriptures are the most powerful scriptures in all of the word of God EXPLAINING how a sinner is freely justified~and the child of faith LOOKING TO CHRIST ALONE for his acceptance before God. Those who look to Christ alone basically declare that they are helpless sinners without any spiritual strength to save themselves and that ALL of their righteousness is as filthy rags and that Jesus Christ's righteousness is the atoning sacrifice offered to God for their sins and God ACCEPTED that perfect Lamb of God by raising him from the dead for death had NO CLAIMS upon that sinless sacrifice!
Quote from: BlessedCreator Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 17:33:25
You can't have trust in God without having a good conscience toward God.
Very true~this good conscience was freely given at regeneration when the elect are born of the Spirit of God.
Quote from: BlessedCreator Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 17:33:25
You can't have a good conscience toward God without obeying Him.
Sir, you cannot have EITHER without FIRST being born of God~such gift are the results of the new birth, not the conditions thereof~OR ESLE, salvation from sin and condemnation is by the works of the law, flesh, etc. And that would make THAT GOSPEL another gospel that stands in opposition to Jesus Christ's gospel preached by the apostle Paul.
Quote from: Blessed=Creator Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 17:33:25
Believing in Jesus is the first commandment of God we are told to obey.
AGREED! 1st John 3:21. Which PROVES that our faith is NOT the means of our salvation from the condemnation of God's law. Besides our faith is SO IMPERFECT and at times almost nonexistence! Sad, but true.
Quote from: BlessedCreator Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 17:33:25
There are many other commandments we must live in obedience unto if we desire to be saved
Well, it is all according to in what SENSE are you using the word saved? Saved as from condemnation of the law of God? No, that would place a person's dependant on receiving eternal life in THEIR HANDS, thereby, BY THEIR WORKS and would make Christ's death be in vain and useless.

Saved in a practical sense from error, false doctrines, God's chastisements, loss of peace, joy, and happiness, God's best for us in this life, etc.?YES.



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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #110 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 05:26:33 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #111 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 06:42:36 »
But to cut through all the theological debates and to keep this very short, the question that must be addressed is "WHOSE FAITH LEGALLY JUSTIFY US BEFORE GOD'S LAW?" Is it the faith of Jesus Christ, or man's? A man's answer to this question will reveal the gospel that he is trusting in to obtain eternal life in the world to come.

As per my understanding of scriptures, it is God who justifieth us by His grace. And God did that through Christ Jesus. All that God did through Jesus Christ was for our justification, us whom God had chosen to be His people, whom He creates anew to be the new man, in Christ Jesus..   

Offline RB

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #112 on: Fri May 08, 2020 - 16:05:35 »
As per my understanding of scriptures, it is God who justifieth us by His grace. And God did that through Christ Jesus. All that God did through Jesus Christ was for our justification, us whom God had chosen to be His people, whom He creates anew to be the new man, in Christ Jesus..

Amen my dear brother in Jesus Christ. RB

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #113 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 00:17:52 »
BlessedCreator,
I get the feeling that believing in Jesus back then meant far more than we give it credit for.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #113 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 00:17:52 »

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #114 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 18:50:54 »
Yogi bear,
Quote
Okay then tell me which of the so called 5 steps is not biblical. Let us discuss this so I can see my error.
Calling it steps makes it sound mechanical. I don't believe in packaging things.

Offline BlessedCreator

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #115 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 22:30:14 »
I updated the original post and removed the part about baptism and having a good conscience toward God. My interpretation of that verse was off therefore I removed it. But we do still need to continue in obedience to God and His will to have a good conscience toward Him. Also I added a link at the bottom of the original post which will take you to a PDF of the complete KJB.
« Last Edit: Sat May 30, 2020 - 22:33:14 by BlessedCreator »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #116 on: Sun May 31, 2020 - 06:54:11 »
Please refresh my memory, which verse on baptism did you remove? Can you please explain why you were off on the verse? What was your first thought and why did you change your view?

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #117 on: Sun May 31, 2020 - 07:00:29 »
Yogi bear,Calling it steps makes it sound mechanical. I don't believe in packaging things.
I agree and do not call it steps but a biblical flow.

Think about this even the faith only tribe do the same but do not call it steps. They too first hear the gospel then they believe the gospel then they confess Jesus and repent then pray this prayer. They then are baptized. The main difference in them and us is the definition of what baptism is.

That is why we have so many heated discussions on what the true biblical meaning of baptism is all the rest we agree whole hardheartedly on.
« Last Edit: Sun May 31, 2020 - 07:05:48 by yogi bear »

Offline RB

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #118 on: Sun May 31, 2020 - 08:30:20 »
That is why we have so many heated discussions on what the true biblical meaning of baptism is all the rest we agree whole hardheartedly on.
Greetings Yogi, please do not put me into the group with the others who do indeed believe wholeheartedly with you, and truly the bottom line are with you, just they do admit that they too are being active in working in their salvation from sin and condemnation, but their doctrine said otherwise when compared to what Paul called the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: yogi bear on: Today at 07:00:29
Think about this even the faith only tribe
I'm in the faith only tribe, but it is JESUS CHRIST'S faith that is the ONLY ground of our legal justification before God. Our faith in Jesus Christ is the evidence that we were justified at the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The whole gospel of John and his 1st epistle were written to teach this very truth, especially so his gospel.
Quote from: John
John 20:31~But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The true biblical sense to " that believing ye might have life through his name" through believing God's elect might have the KNOWLEDGE of their free gift of justification unto eternal life secured for us THROUGH Jesus Christ. " Of course, I have combined many other scriptures into giving this sense to John's words, which is how we come to understand the scriptures, by here a little and there a little using all of them together.

Must run to meeting...later RB
« Last Edit: Sun May 31, 2020 - 13:27:25 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #119 on: Sun May 31, 2020 - 09:21:34 »
The true biblical sense to " that believing ye might have life through his name" through believing God's elect might have the KNOWLEDGE of their free gift of justification unto eternal life secured for us THROUGH Jesus Christ. " Of course, I have combined many other scriptures into giving this sense to John's words, which is how we come to understand the scriptures, by here a little and there a little using all of them together.
There are indeed some passages for which I would concede that a different interpretation could be proposed than the one I would give.  John 20:31 is not one of them.  Once again your adherence to the KJV and a complete avoidance of any other translation has gotten you to a false interpretation.

(ESV)  but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

(NIV)  But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


These make the point clearly that it is by or through believing that we can have life in his name.  Our believing, i.e., our faith, is what provides access to life in Christ Jesus.  That is actually what the KJV says as well, but so much differently that you have interpreted it wrongly.  It is not other Scriptures that have led you to your "sense" of what John meant, but rather your own preconceived, and incorrect, soteriology that forces that "sense" into John's words.  It is not just KNOWLEDGE about God's justification; rather it is God's JUSTIFICATION itself that comes by or through believing.  That is what John said, that is what God intended him to say.  And that is a reiteration of so much of John's gospel: John 3:15  so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life.

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #120 on: Sun May 31, 2020 - 10:25:34 »
I agree and do not call it steps but a biblical flow.

Think about this even the faith only tribe do the same but do not call it steps. They too first hear the gospel then they believe the gospel then they confess Jesus and repent then pray this prayer. They then are baptized. The main difference in them and us is the definition of what baptism is.

That is why we have so many heated discussions on what the true biblical meaning of baptism is all the rest we agree whole hardheartedly on.

Some in your group parse baptism from faith.  Maybe not all, but I have heard it first hand.  The "faith only" group don't all say a prayer. 

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #121 on: Fri Jun 05, 2020 - 05:34:18 »
If anyone claims baptism is ANYTHING without accompanying faith have no understanding of Biblical truth, and ESPECIALLY don’t even understand their own touted 5 steps “five steps”. I don’t know how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that it is really only one step, baptism. These people are vestiges of the old conservative cofc. Not that prevalent anymore, but I’m sure they exist.

These people parse baptism away from faith. The faith-only bunch parse faith away from baptism. Basically the same eggregious mistake.



« Last Edit: Fri Jun 05, 2020 - 05:37:22 by Jaime »

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #122 on: Fri Jun 05, 2020 - 06:45:48 »
If anyone claims baptism is ANYTHING without accompanying faith have no understanding of Biblical truth, and ESPECIALLY don’t even understand their own touted 5 steps “five steps”. I don’t know how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that it is really only one step, baptism. These people are vestiges of the old conservative cofc. Not that prevalent anymore, but I’m sure they exist.

These people parse baptism away from faith. The faith-only bunch parse faith away from baptism. Basically the same eggregious mistake.

Faith alone is simply a wasted energy evidently. Useless without that immersion either for the folks who contend in the need for salvation, or those who contend it is affirming our understanding that it is expected. Erog... without it we really are not saved, properly.

So why not just come out and say it is a two step process, and unless you undergo this.... beware because His wrath will catch up to you one way or the other  ::tippinghat::

Time to stop pussy footing around and get back to that good old Hell Fire and Damnation preaching and Teaching.

I find it abhorrent that on a Saturday a minister could marry  Joan and Linda, or Adam and  a Steve, then on Sunday
immerse a person who has just found his way to faith and belief.

But that is just me .


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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #123 on: Sun Jun 07, 2020 - 07:49:40 »
Here is my thought on the matter.

It is clear we all agree one must have faith and agree on what that means, will except for a few that thinks it is given us not that we come to believe.

It is clear we all know that we are required to be baptized in the name of Christ. It is the reason behind the baptism that we can not agree upon. Therefore the way I see it we need to study just what baptism is and why and what it accomplishes and fully understand what the bible says about baptism.

That is why we study the topic of baptism more than faith, confession,and repentance. We all agree on the other but can not come together on baptism. Just like the others the bible is clear on the teaching of baptism therefore we must look closely at our view to make sure it is in alignment with what the bible truly teaches on the subject.

It is not that we parse baptism from faith because we clearly teach that faith must come first but we strongly try to teach what the bible clearly says on the subject. It to me is hard to see how so many can not grasp what the bible says in written form  as to what baptism is for and does for one.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #124 on: Sun Jun 07, 2020 - 08:59:51 »
It is not that we parse baptism from faith because we clearly teach that faith must come first but we strongly try to teach what the bible clearly says on the subject. It to me is hard to see how so many can not grasp what the bible says in written form  as to what baptism is for and does for one.
It is mostly, I believe, because so many erroneously declare baptism to be a work and therefore must be rejected as being involved with obtaining salvation.  And all of that because they simply do not understand Paul's meaning of "work" when he states that justification is by faith not by works.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Requirements of Salvation
« Reply #125 on: Sun Jun 07, 2020 - 09:17:15 »
I agree 4WD. Baptism is no more a work that earns salvation than confessing with our tongues that Christ is Lord. It just MUST be to those that DO want to parse baptism from salvation. It certainly wasn’t to the first century folks, who were closer to the events and texts that we point to.