Quote from: Michael2012 on Mon Jul 30, 2018 - 10:01:07
No one here I suppose is suggesting that a believer should not be baptized nor be baptized later. The point is in the question: When one does repent and believe in God and Christ, will he be saved only when baptized with water or after being baptized with water?
Michael let me answer your question with a question. Do believe what scriptures say? I will let the scriptures do the talking because I admittedly do not know the mind of God but only what he revealed in his word can you say the same and let the word answer your question?
The question is when is the forgiveness of sin recorded as being done. Before baptism or through baptism?
Do we agree that before the cross the coming kingdom was to be preached setting the way for the kingdom to be in place? If so we know that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was all recorded of the kingdom to come. In Acts we read that the kingdom has come and we read in Acts 2 of how one is to enter into the kingdom.
Peter preaches the resurrected Christ for the first time in opening the doors to the kingdom that has come. In so he answers sthe question of what one must do to enter into the kingdom
Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Nothing hidden here it is clearly spelled out One must repent (command) and be baptized in Christ name (why) for the forgiveness of sin (then) you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Could not get any more clear could it?
But as we told you this is backed by more scripture it is not a stand alone.
Acts 22:16 (KJV)
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
See this backs up Acts 2:38 saying the same the baptism in Christ name is for the forgiveness of sin and how one calls on the name of the Lord.
That is not the only one that backs it up look at Romans 6
Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
You see it clearly states that it is in the baptism in Christ name that we are transformed from dead in sin to alive in Christ the new birth.
Romans 6:16-18 (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
You see Paul says that it was in the baptism in Christ name that the transformation took place. He backs that in other letters to the church this is not a stand alone scripture but has backing from others.
Galatians 3:27 (KJV)
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
See again Paul says that it was in the baptism in Christ name where one has put on Christ backing the above scriptures.
Colossians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Again Paul testifying that in baptism ones sin are forgiven and the new birth take place.
How many more times does one need to be told. The bible has answered your question for you will you take it for its word or do you want to debate the scriptures that gives the only recorded answer you are seeking. We can not go above or beyond what is recorded.
Perhaps, after I address your post here you can answer my question with an honest direct answer.
You posted "The question is when is the forgiveness of sin recorded as being done. Before baptism or through baptism?"
Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.
Hebrews 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin
Apparently, many think that forgiveness of sins is had by baptism, which is not, but is by repentance towards God and believing in Christ.
Examine and study the two scriptures I cited. For in them, this truth can be learned. Christ had offered up his life, that is His blood, as a sacrificial offering for the sin of the world. Why there is no more offering for sin is because what Christ had offered, the only sacrifice acceptable to God and that which pleased God, had effected the remission of sins, once and for all. That's what Hebrews 10:18 says.
Not only for a few, but for the world. That is not to say that all had been forgiven.
Now, those who believe in Christ receives forgiveness of sin. That is what Acts 10:43 says. And why is that? For only in Christ, one receives the mercy of God. Examine and study the following scriptures to learn about what one have in Christ.
Ephesians 4:32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you
Ephesians 1 is a good read on this matter. Please examine and study it.
I wonder why many read scriptures and look for what they must do to be saved, when the scriptures is about what God had done to save man.
The message is simple. Salvation is in Christ. So be in Christ. Obviously, what is there for man to do, is to be in Christ. Repent therefore, towards God, and believe in Christ. For in Christ is the forgiveness of sins.
Another thing is that, not many think and understand, that they are saved, not because of their compliance to and their doing of what they take as good works, but because they are IN CHRIST.