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Author Topic: Romans 3:25  (Read 9000 times)

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Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #350 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 09:10:27 »
If the Eunoch did not believe with his whole heart Phillip would have said “you may not.” Because if he didn’t believe with his whole heart, he would have just gotten wet for no reason in a water hole, and NO baptism, as we understand baptism and its purposes would have occurred. Baptism in Christ’s name always involves believers. Unbelievers can only look forward to condemnation.

Philip do not know the heart of the Eunuch. But when Philip heard the confession of the Eunuch, Philip would just have to take the eunuch's confession as truthful. 

Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus. Though that is not to say that every one who were baptized, were true converts or were baptized in the true sense of baptism. And these baptized people who were not true converts or believers, together with those who rejected the gospel of Christ, those who do not believe, will be condemned.


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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #350 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 09:10:27 »

Online 4WD

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #351 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 09:22:10 »
Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers
Where in the Bible do you read of any unbelievers being baptized? You don't.  So it is clear that you are confused.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #351 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 09:22:10 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #352 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:17:58 »
Quote
Quote from: Michael2012 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 - 10:59:58
And you demonstrate the wisdom, knowledge, understanding, and ways of man, which sits right at this statement "One comes to believe the gospel in exactly the same way that one comes to believe anything".
Thank you Michael.  You have made my point.  You haven't a clue of why or how you believe.  And it goes beyond that.  Since you don't know why and how you believe, it explains a lot about what you believe.

And the point is that you demonstrate the wisdom, knowledge, understanding, and ways of man. I don't know if that is something to really be grateful about.

I know why I believe and how I believe. And it's not the same as to why and how you believe. And having said that, you would not know why and how one like me believes. No wonder why we disagree on many about the spiritual things of God written in scriptures. 

Quote
Quote from: Michael
And there is nothing spiritual in what you say there about being convinced. It is all of you and by you.
No it is not all of me and by me.  It is all about the revelation from God.  It is almost all about the word of God; the written word of God; His special revelation given us through the work of the Holy Spirit. His general revelation that comes to us through His creation, His creative works, supports that special revelation and builds upon it.
Quote
Quote from: Michael
If at all you were, who do you say convicted you of sin?
That is an unintelligible sentence.  "If at all you were..." ? ? ? ?  I think I know what you wanted to ask, but I will hold back on an answer until I get a complete sentence that make some modicum of sense.

Would you say that it is the Holy Spirit that convicted you of sin? 

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #352 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:17:58 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #353 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:34:42 »
No need really to assume.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

That's what scriptures says Philip preached to the eunuch.

Same thing Peter preached to the 3000.

We only need to see what's written in Acts 2:14-41 and Acts 8:26-38 to see the difference, even while they both preached Jesus.

This does not take away your assumptions nor does it change the fact that all is but your assumptions.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #353 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:34:42 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #354 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:45:02 »
Quote
Quote from: Michael2012 on Today at 09:10:27
Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers
Where in the Bible do you read of any unbelievers being baptized? You don't.  So it is clear that you are confused.

You quoted an incomplete statement of mine and make it appear to mean something I did not mean to say. That's truly unfair and malicious.

This what I said "Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus."

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #354 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:45:02 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #355 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 12:04:08 »
Michael, the story of the eunoch  does not counter or negate what happened in Acts 2. If it did, all of us would have problems with making sense of scripture. Scripture is to be taken cumulatively one precept upon another. We get in trouble if we pit verses against other verses.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #355 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 12:04:08 »

Online 4WD

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #356 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 13:41:24 »
This what I said "Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus."
I know what you said and it absolutely WRONG ! !  Never in the NT is it ever said that an unbeliever was baptized  --  NEVER ! !

Online RB

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #357 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 14:31:51 »
I know what you said and it absolutely WRONG ! !  Never in the NT is it ever said that an unbeliever was baptized  --  NEVER ! !
4WD, Michael never said that~he said this :
Quote from: Michael Reply #350 on: Today at 09:10:27
Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus.
Now, I have not read back very many posts, but a few, so I cannot comment on all that Michael believes but on this statement he is NOT saying that when people are baptized they are unbelievers~even though millions have been baptized that were not true believers that God never truly granted repentance and faith to. This to me is all Michael is saying in the last few posts. A man MUST be a believer before he can be baptized into the religion of Jesus Christ. In Baptism we take on the name of Jesus Christ....Christian.
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 14:37:27 by RB »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #358 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 15:40:35 »
I didn’t think God “grants” repentance. He grants forgiveness.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #358 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 15:40:35 »

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #359 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 16:43:06 »
Now, I have not read back very many posts, but a few, so I cannot comment on all that Michael believes but on this statement he is NOT saying that when people are baptized they are unbelievers~even though millions have been baptized that were not true believers that God never truly granted repentance and faith to. This to me is all Michael is saying in the last few posts. A man MUST be a believer before he can be baptized into the religion of Jesus Christ. In Baptism we take on the name of Jesus Christ....Christian.
If they are unbelievers what are they repenting of?  The whole concept that he puts forward makes mockery of God, His son and the cross, and the gospel.  The whole point of the gospel is to produce believers; believers who then repent and submit to being baptized for the forgiveness of their sins and to receive the gift [the indwelling] of the Holy Spirit.  Michael is so thoroughly confused in all of it.  And I must say, RB, you are confused as well if you think any of what he says makes any sense at all. 

As I pointed out before to Michael,  there is not a single instance in the entire NT of an unbeliever being baptized. Moreover, there is not a single instance in the NT of an unbeliever repenting.  It also never talks about being baptized into any religion.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #360 on: Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 22:24:58 »
I stumbled onto dangerous territory posting WUEST who contradicts those who misquote him. I will try again.

Al Maxey promoted by the REformer denies ALL of Holy Scripture about baptism and always BEGINS by slandering a Godly brother.

Al Maxey: Therefore, the faith one has BEFORE baptism is insufficient to bring about salvation. However, mere seconds later, after one's nose breaks the surface of the water of the baptistery, THEN one suddenly and miraculously is in possession of the "fullness of faith" (saving faith). What about Cornelius?,

Al Maxey: I asked Hugh. We are told he was "a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people, and prayed to God continually" (Acts 10:2). This man was informed by an angel that his "prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God" (vs. 4). He was "a RIGHTEOUS and God-fearing man" (vs. 22). While Peter was still speaking to Cornelius, and before his baptism, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon him by God, and Cornelius was "speaking with tongues and exalting God" (vs. 44-46).

Al and his SECT will never know that Righteousness means "NOT ceremonially disqualified." God revealed to Peter but not to theologians that contrary to the Jews Jesus died to declare that Gentiles nor swine are IMPURE. 

When God pours out His Spirit the RESULT is that someone SPEAKS. All of the words translated as spirit literally means WIND: the example Peter speaks of was the SIGNS of WIND (breath) and FIRE. Cornelius-a speaker of the ROMAN language spoke in words the Doubting Jews could understand.


Al Maxey Was this man, at this point, lost?! Was his faith insufficient in God's sight? According to Hugh Fulford, it was! Thus, had Cornelius died before getting to the water, he would have been cast headlong into hell by our merciful Father. Poor Cornelius -- with God's Spirit upon him, he would have marched himself right into the flames of perdition, speaking in tongues and praising God all the way there!! What nonsense!! And yet, it is the view that must ultimately and inevitably be taken if one embraces the sacramental view of baptism. This is why Darrell Broking, in his debate with me, declared, "Cornelius was no more saved when he spoke in tongues than was Balaam's ass" (see my analysis of this in Reflections #472 -- Cornelius and Balaam's Ass: Was this Godly Centurion as Damned as a Donkey prior to his Baptism?).   

Al Maxey will never be able to comprehend that the most RIGHTEOUS person could not be added to the KINGDOM or Church without ASKING Jesus Christ PERMISSION.

AL MAXEY defended by those who spread hatred  "QUOTES" Kenneth Wuest BUT Wuest MARKS THEM.


God had granted both Jews and Gentiles repentance or the power to change directions and be baptized into Christ on equal footing.'

The prophetic promise and the commands of Jesus was to preach to the nations or Gentiles. Peter was in danger when sent to tell Cornelius how to be saved because the judaizers who denies that the Gentiles could repent and be baptized.  This granting was an offered "good news" but was accepted by being baptized.

When God poured out His Spirit the only thing that happens is that the person SPEAKS what the Spirit conveys from God.

Wuest pages 215-2157/size]


Wuest-p216.gif

« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 12:25:56 by Kenneth Sublett »

Online RB

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #361 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 04:07:38 »
I didn’t think God “grants” repentance. He grants forgiveness.
Please consider:
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 2:25~"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Yet, it is also true that we should teach and command men to repent of any evil in their life, lest they too perish in the lake of fire like the vilest of sinners will with confidence that they were good Christians.
Quote from: Jesus Christ
Luke 13:1-5~"There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
The Lord smote my spirit this morning as I was thinking of 2nd Timothy 2:25~"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves".....Many times we forget to instruct in the spirit of meekness, many times people provoke us and we like Moses get angry and hit the rock (people's hard heads~ ::smile::) instead of speaking to the rock in meekness.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 04:11:15 by RB »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #362 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 11:06:09 »
2Tim. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker:
        of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Tim. 2:18 WHO concerning the TRUTH have erred,
        saying that the resurrection is past already;
        and overthrow the faith of some.
2Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure,
        having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.
        And, Let EVERY ONE that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM INIQUITY
2Tim. 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver,
        but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Tim. 2:21 IF a man therefore PURGE HIMSELF from these,
        HE SHALL BE a vessel unto honour, sanctified,
        and meet for the master’s use,
        and prepared unto every good work.
2Tim. 2:22  [YOU] Flee also youthful lusts:
        but  [YOU] follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace,
        with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Tim. 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid,
        knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Tim. 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive;
        but be gentle unto all men, APT to teach, patient,
2Tim. 2:25 In meekness INSTRUCTING those that oppose themselves;
        IF PERADVENTURE will give them repentance
        to the acknowledging of the truth;

2Tim. 2:26 And that THEY MAY RECOVER THEMSELVES
         out of the SNARE of the devil,
         who are taken captive by him at HIS will.

The Truth is the Word is God's Regulative principle which outlaws everything but READ and SPEAK because the outlawed personal opinion is Dangerous and disrespects the Spirit OF God who inspired CONTEXT.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #363 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 12:17:47 »
I have added Wuest pages 215 through 217 ABOVE to debunk defending people who are Purpose Driven truth twisters.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #364 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 12:31:18 »
Red, if man refuses to repent is it because God didn’t GRANT it? When the Bible says repent, does man have an out if he doesn’t because God didn’t grant it?

http://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-difficulties-2/nt-difficulties/1-2-timothy-titus-philemon-hebrews-james-1-2-peter/2-tim-225-can-we-repent-or-does-god-cause-us-to-repent/
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 12:37:09 by Jaime »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #365 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 16:09:45 »
Just seen on a web page:

OPPORTUNITY: “The enemy gave us an opportunity to surrender.”
ACTION: “We surrendered to the enemy.”

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #366 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 17:57:40 »
Jaime,
Quote
I didn’t think God “grants” repentance. He grants forgiveness.
In what sense do you think the circumcised believers meant
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”  ?

Bear in mind they did accept this.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 18:05:56 by e.r.m. »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #367 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 18:35:37 »
They were granted the “opportunity” for repentance as a group. An opportunity they did not previously have as Gentiles. Indiviual repentance was something they had to do of their individual free will, in my opinion as well as the author of the link I posted in reply #364.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #368 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 19:05:46 »
Michael, the story of the eunoch  does not counter or negate what happened in Acts 2. If it did, all of us would have problems with making sense of scripture. Scripture is to be taken cumulatively one precept upon another. We get in trouble if we pit verses against other verses.

And nobody is saying it does.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #369 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 19:24:59 »
Do you accept that all of scripture is to be taken cumulativey? As in if one verse says believe and one says repent then the BiBle is saying BOTH are involved? Or do you still point to the believe and be saved verses as all THE salvation verses? I contend it ALL
applies. If you do too, we are in agreement.

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #370 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 19:41:29 »
Jaime,
Quote
They were granted the “opportunity” for repentance as a group. An opportunity they did not previously have as Gentiles. Indiviual repentance was something they had to do of their individual free will, in my opinion as well as the author of the link I posted in reply #364.
I understand it as that God led and moved any number of gentiles ultimately to repentance, namely Cornelius and company. Incidentally, this also showed that God would now accept all Gentiles.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 19:43:51 by e.r.m. »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #371 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 20:19:21 »
With Cornelius God showed that he grants the OPPORTUNITY for the gentiles to repent. Just as importantly He showed Peter and the rest of the disciples.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #372 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 20:31:36 »
How does this compare to John 1:12, where it says God granted believers the RIGHt to BECOME sons of God.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 21:24:54 by Jaime »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #373 on: Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 20:48:54 »
Abraham and his family was to be a blessing to all nations. However, in Genesis 49 Jacob warned the godly not to assembly with (synagogue) with Levi nor to enter into a covenant with them. Always the spiritual Covenant was made by God in Christ (his anointed) and the Law of Moses given because of transgression did not change that covenant which was NOT Jewish.

All of Jacob had been scatted and died except a small remnant of Jacob. A relative small part of Judah survived.

Gal. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Peter heard the direct command of Jesus that the gospel was for all nations but his tardiness hardly makes him into a Pope.

The gospel was to begin with Jews but ultimately was to ALL NATIONS.  God never had Dogish people but the Jews had to see God's strong arm before they could reluctantly accept the fact that God is not a respecter of people. 

The Jewish system was a CARNAL system which had no saving powers.  God judged the Gentiles based on their own conduct and never commanded a clergy institution to convince people that God will HURT you if you don't engage in ceremonial legalism.



Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #374 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 08:33:38 »
Quote
Quote from: Michael2012 on Yesterday at 10:45:02
This what I said "Baptism in Christ's name involves unbelievers who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus."
I know what you said and it absolutely WRONG ! !  Never in the NT is it ever said that an unbeliever was baptized  --  NEVER ! !

There is a big difference between knowing what I said and understanding what I said.



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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #375 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 08:39:05 »
Jamie,
Quote
How does this compare to John 1:12, where it says God granted believers the RIGHt to BECOME sons of God.
Good point. But I think in the case of Cornelius & Company, and with many others, that God doesn't just give the opportunity, He also helps the process along by sending people (or an angel) to them and convicting their heart as described in John 16:8-11. The repentance, however, is still there's to do.
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 18:55:29 by e.r.m. »

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #376 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 09:01:20 »
who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus.[/b]"

WHAT AM I MISSING????????????????????????????????????????????

God does not "grant"  repentence. IF somehow I missed that word in connection to repentence in the Holy word... please give me line and verse.

According to Merriam Webster: granted means

Definition of grant

granted; granting; grants
transitive verb

1 a : to consent to carry out for a person : allow fulfillment of grant a request
b : to permit as a right, privilege, or favor luggage allowances granted to passengers

You DO NOT ask God to grant you permission to repent..... YOU REPENT because it is commanded of you to do so..... It is not a permission it is an order.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/thoughts-on-jesuss-demand-to-repent  ( note it says Jesus' demand to repent)

and  this has some points to my thinking.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-repentance

You can definitely repent of any sin and not be saved and not even be a Christian but your conscience can tell you it just isn't right.

But all Christians should turn from their sins as demanded by Jesus if for no other reason then to show God their love and respect.

God does not grant you permission to turn from your sins




Offline faroukfarouk

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #377 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 10:40:08 »
WHAT AM I MISSING????????????????????????????????????????????

God does not "grant"  repentence. IF somehow I missed that word in connection to repentence in the Holy word... please give me line and verse.

According to Merriam Webster: granted means

Definition of grant

granted; granting; grants
transitive verb

1 a : to consent to carry out for a person : allow fulfillment of grant a request
b : to permit as a right, privilege, or favor luggage allowances granted to passengers

You DO NOT ask God to grant you permission to repent..... YOU REPENT because it is commanded of you to do so..... It is not a permission it is an order.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/thoughts-on-jesuss-demand-to-repent  ( note it says Jesus' demand to repent)

and  this has some points to my thinking.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-repentance

You can definitely repent of any sin and not be saved and not even be a Christian but your conscience can tell you it just isn't right.

But all Christians should turn from their sins as demanded by Jesus if for no other reason then to show God their love and respect.

God does not grant you permission to turn from your sins
Romans 2 is one of Paul's great chapters on repentance. A wholesome subject.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #378 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 12:40:10 »
Quote
Quote from: Michael2012 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 10:45:02
who were granted repentance by God and, repented towards God and faith in Christ Jesus.[/b]"
WHAT AM I MISSING????????????????????????????????????????????

God does not "grant"  repentence. IF somehow I missed that word in connection to repentence in the Holy word... please give me line and verse.

According to Merriam Webster: granted means

Definition of grant

granted; granting; grants
transitive verb

1 a : to consent to carry out for a person : allow fulfillment of grant a request
b : to permit as a right, privilege, or favor luggage allowances granted to passengers

You DO NOT ask God to grant you permission to repent..... YOU REPENT because it is commanded of you to do so..... It is not a permission it is an order.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/thoughts-on-jesuss-demand-to-repent  ( note it says Jesus' demand to repent)

and  this has some points to my thinking.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-repentance

You can definitely repent of any sin and not be saved and not even be a Christian but your conscience can tell you it just isn't right.

But all Christians should turn from their sins as demanded by Jesus if for no other reason then to show God their love and respect.

God does not grant you permission to turn from your sins

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

2 Timothy 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

The Greek word translated grant is:

Strong's Concordance
didómi: to give (in various senses lit. or fig.)
Original Word: δίδωμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: didómi
Phonetic Spelling: (did'-o-mee)
Short Definition: I offer, give
Definition: I offer, give; I put, place.

Other Bible translations goes:

KJV   In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

ASV   in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,

The Greek word translated "repent" is:

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.


The word repent means to change one’s mind.

It is fundamentally tied to the mind or heart. In terms of salvation, it denotes a turning away from unbelief, mistrust and rebellion against God and toward complete reliance upon God's forgiveness and favor. And that, on account of Christ.

Clearly so, repentance, is a change of mind or heart, toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why, we can understand and see that when one is said to have come to repentance, that he turns to God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It must then be realized that believing in Christ is an inseparable part of repentance preached by John the baptist and the apostles.




Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #379 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 12:42:39 »
I didn’t think God “grants” repentance. He grants forgiveness.

Please see my post in reply # 378

Offline faroukfarouk

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #380 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 12:45:15 »
The METANOIA involves both a turning from sin and a turning to God in faith.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #381 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 12:54:28 »
If they are unbelievers what are they repenting of?  The whole concept that he puts forward makes mockery of God, His son and the cross, and the gospel.  The whole point of the gospel is to produce believers; believers who then repent and submit to being baptized for the forgiveness of their sins and to receive the gift [the indwelling] of the Holy Spirit.  Michael is so thoroughly confused in all of it.  And I must say, RB, you are confused as well if you think any of what he says makes any sense at all. 


Perhaps you don't get what is the repentance preached by John the baptist and the apostles.

Please see my post in reply # 378.

John the baptist and the apostles went out preaching to  unbelievers, that they should repent towards God and faith in Christ. The repentance obviously is that of a change of mind or heart, toward God and faith in Lord Jesus Christ by the unbeliever.

This repentance is obviously not for the believer, but for the unbeliever.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #382 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 13:36:59 »
God granted the OPPORTUNITY for the gentiles to repent. Before that they had none. God does not repent FOR anyone. Similar to John 1:12 God gives us the RIGHT to be sons of God when we believe.

Online 4WD

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #383 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 13:53:55 »
Perhaps you don't get what is the repentance preached by John the baptist and the apostles.

Please see my post in reply # 378.

John the baptist and the apostles went out preaching to  unbelievers, that they should repent towards God and faith in Christ. The repentance obviously is that of a change of mind or heart, toward God and faith in Lord Jesus Christ by the unbeliever.

This repentance is obviously not for the believer, but for the unbeliever.
Again, the complete irrationality of Michael's thought process.  There is so little logic in all of it that it is really sad; more than sad; rather pathetic.  If someone doesn't believe in God, in Jesus, and in the gospel, then what is there that he is to turn from and turn to?

Offline faroukfarouk

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Re: Romans 3:25
« Reply #384 on: Fri Aug 10, 2018 - 14:01:00 »
I reckon faith is all tied up Scripturally with conviction of sin and repentance.