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Offline angelic

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Salt and Light
« on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 15:52:21 »
Hi, i don't understand this Scripture?

'You are the salt of the earth. but if the salt loses it's saltiness, how can it be made salty again? it is no longer good except to be thrown out and trampled by men.' Mat 5:13  ???
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 15:59:04 by angelic »

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Salt and Light
« on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 15:52:21 »

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #1 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 16:42:55 »
No one understands this Scripture? i would understand if no one understood it but it sounds scary to me!!

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #1 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 16:42:55 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #2 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 20:40:59 »
Couldn't say it much better than this.

Salt would have a dual purpose, to preserve food and to enhance flavor. When that salt became tainted due to becoming wet or dirty it was common practice to throw it on the ground for priests to walk upon. If we are the salt of the earth, (righteous, faithful, sanctified, etc) and we lose our saltiness (faith, belief, zeal, etc) we will no longer be usefull to advance the kingdom, the analogy here is "thrown out and trampled under foot" and "cast out into darkness" (where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth). 

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #2 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 20:40:59 »

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #3 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 20:48:56 »
i was once a baptized as a teen but i wasn't sure if Christ was real and didn't understand a much as i do now. i even told my friends they can go away from the christians if they wanted to and then i didn't believe in jesus anymore until later again but i believed there was a God and as long as you weren't that bad. does that mean if i lost my saltiness how can i be salty, a christian again? i should be thrown out? that's harsh
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 20:51:40 by angelic »

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #3 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 20:48:56 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 21:03:02 »
i was once a baptized as a teen but i wasn't sure if Christ was real and didn't understand a much as i do now. i even told my friends they can go away from the christians if they wanted to and then i didn't believe in jesus anymore until later again but i believed there was a God and as long as you weren't that bad. does that mean if i lost my saltiness how can i be salty, a christian again? i should be thrown out? that's harsh


I don't see returning to your former state of belief as being an issue, if one remained in that state of disbelief that would be a problem.

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 21:03:02 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #5 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 21:13:29 »
Plus “not being that bad” gets you nowhere. We can never be “not that bad” enough to put us in good standing. Our only "standing" before God is by the blood of Christ and HIS righteousness.
« Last Edit: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 16:49:20 by Jaime »

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #5 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 21:13:29 »

Offline soterion

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #6 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 21:57:22 »
i was once a baptized as a teen but i wasn't sure if Christ was real and didn't understand a much as i do now. i even told my friends they can go away from the christians if they wanted to and then i didn't believe in jesus anymore until later again but i believed there was a God and as long as you weren't that bad. does that mean if i lost my saltiness how can i be salty, a christian again? i should be thrown out? that's harsh

I would say that since you care about this, and are seeking God's truth and will on the matter, then you are on the right road. Your wanting God's will to be fulfilled in you helps to make you salty. ::smile::

Being the salt of the earth means that people are going to see and hear us. Our behavior and words have an impact on others. Jesus wants us to have a positive impact by doing His will and speaking the truth and sharing the gospel to those around us. Don't be ashamed of the gospel and of your desire to please Him. Resist temptation and persevere if reviled or mocked. Stay in His word and pray always, rejoicing in the Lord.

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #7 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 23:28:55 »
@Jaime i agree and i believe God gave us direction with a book. Thanks to Alan, Jaime and soterion so far.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #8 on: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 03:02:05 »
angelic  -  There is no need for this verse to be an intimidating one for you.  Could I offer an explanation from an in-depth study class I once attended that covered this point from the Sermon on the Mount? 

When Christ spoke these words, He was addressing a JEWISH audience who knew exactly what Christ meant by calling them the "SALT of the earth".  It was an especially meaningful metaphor for an Israelite.  (In the phrase "salt of the EARTH", the Greek word for "earth" is "GE" - which usually refers to the LAND of Israel - not the world at large.) 

Let me quote a verse that will explain better what I mean.  Go to Leviticus 2:13, where it talks about the tabernacle offerings that were to be given by the Israelites in the Old Testament.  "And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with SALT; neither shalt thou suffer the SALT OF THE COVENANT OF THY GOD to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt."  Salt was to be included with every sacrifice, as a symbol of the enduring covenant God had made with His people.  In giving an offering that was accompanied by the "salt of the covenant", the Israelites were reminded of God's faithfulness, and were also reminded of their own responsibility to be faithful in their obedience to the covenant God had made with them, to have no other gods besides Him, and to obey His laws. 

As a natural preservative and purifier, salt provided the perfect symbol of God's enduring promises.  What Christ was doing in Matthew 5:13 was reminding His Israelite audience of the "covenant of salt" God had once made with His people under the Old Covenant. 

All during His 3 1/2 years of ministry on earth, Christ was showing those of His own people the way of the NEW Covenant He would make with the children of faith.  The "salt" of the OLD Covenant was losing its savour, and there was no way to restore its strength again.  Once the New Covenant would be established in Christ's blood, the Old Covenant would become obsolete, and was destined to be "cast out and to be trodden under feet of men."  Paul called the Old Covenant "the weak and beggarly elements" (Gal. 4:9).  Christ also called the Old Covenant the "old wineskins" that would need to be replaced by new wineskins, so that the new wine (the children of faith under the New Covenant) could be preserved (Matt. 9:17). 

He was "taking away the first" (the Old Covenant), so that He could "establish the second" (the New Covenant), which was based upon "better promises" (Heb. 8:6).  Instead of putting salt on top of Old Covenant sacrifices, Christ told his disciples to "have salt *IN* YOURSELVES..." (Mark 9:50).  If salt is sprinkled IN us, then we ourselves become the "living sacrifices" under God's NEW Covenant of salt.  His law is now written on our hearts instead of on tables of stone.  As Romans 12:1 puts it, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

So, angelic, this verse should not in any way be understood that Christ will "cast you out" and have people stomp on you if you aren't "salty" enough.  That meaning is not intended AT ALL by this Matthew 5:13 verse.  We are not God's "foster children", being moved from one foster home to another if we irritate the foster parents; we are ADOPTED children.  Once a child of faith is adopted into God's family, we are sealed until the day of the redemption of our bodies.  This security for the adopted child of God is found all the way back in Ecclesiastes 3:14 "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it that men should fear before him."  This tells me that the natural response for a true adopted child of faith is not to presume they have a license to sin afterward; instead, the response is that "men should fear before him".

"Hope this helps, angelic  :-)

« Last Edit: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 11:12:03 by 3 Resurrections »

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #8 on: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 03:02:05 »

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #9 on: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 16:44:27 »
Ok thanks but what about the part that says if it loses it's saltiness, how can it be made salty again like you can no longer be in god's kingdom, etc.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #10 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 11:02:28 »
Hi again angelic  -  When Christ said "YE are the salt of the earth", He was not addressing YOU directly - He was speaking to those Jews in front of Him on that day who were then living under the Old Covenant.  Let me try paraphrasing Christ's words in this verse so you can see my thoughts.

"Ye are the old covenant people of the land of Israel that were under the 'salt of the covenant of thy God' :  but if the salt of the Old Covenant have lost its savour, how will it retain its strength as a covenant with God's people?  It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to eventually be cast out and trodden under the foot of men, after it has been replaced by the New Covenant in my blood."

You see, Christ was not saying here that the PEOPLE had lost their "saltiness", it was the OLD COVENANT OF SALT between God and His people that had lost its "saltiness".  Hebrews 8:6 talks about this New Covenant as the "better covenant" based upon "better promises" that went into effect when Christ was installed as our high priest on resurrection day when He ascended to the Father.  When there is a change in the priesthood, there is also a change in the law, as we are told in Hebrews 7:12.  Once the New Covenant went into effect at Christ's death, resurrection, and His first ascension on that day, this naturally changed the "salt of the covenant of thy God" over to the title of "The OLD Covenant", as we are told in Hebrews 8:13.  "In that he saith, 'A new covenant', he hath made the first old.  Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."  This "ready to vanish away" was going to happen very soon for those who were reading Hebrews back in those days.  There was no way to make that Old Covenant "salty" again, because it was decaying.

God gave His own people a chance until AD 70 to transition over to the New Covenant, but when many of them still insisted on rejecting His New Covenant, He obliterated every physical sign of the Old Covenant that was in Jerusalem (the temple, the members of the priesthood, the city itself, the records of their genealogies, and their very identity as the "holy people" of God, which they had made an idol of).  He physically burned it all up, and these symbols of the Old Covenant became ashes that were literally "trodden under foot of men".  Really, angelic, this threat of being "trodden under foot of men" is not hanging over your own head - it was a done deal long ago back in the first century, and this judgment was seen by those who refused to acknowledge that Jesus, the Messiah of the New Covenant, was better than their old "covenant of salt".
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 22:37:32 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #11 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 19:07:44 »
Ok thanks plus there's that Scripture of God welcoming back his lost sheep heh.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #12 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 22:36:31 »
angelic  -  That's very true.  The story doesn't say that the Good Shepherd went out to search for a sheep that had turned into a goat, just so He could turn it back into a sheep again.  It was still a sheep He was looking for when it was lost.

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #13 on: Mon Mar 26, 2018 - 00:41:16 »
3 Resurrections, thanks to you learning this point in your in-depth class ::smile:: but i still have a question. if it applies only to the Old Testament people then why is he speaking in the New Testament as in to us? Thank you

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #14 on: Mon Mar 26, 2018 - 12:05:48 »
angelic - Not every statement in the New Testament applies to us directly.  The people living in those days were in a time of transition between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, which would go into effect when Jesus was resurrected and ascended to the Father to become the high priest of that New Covenant.  Hebrews 12:26-28 said that God's promise from long ago was "NOW" going to shake the heavens and the earth in those days.  Because of this shaking process, only the kingdom of God with its unshakeable New Covenant would be left standing after He destroyed Jerusalem's Old Covenant temple and its priesthood, with all the records of the tribes and their genealogies, which had become outdated, empty symbols since Christ's ascension.

Here is just one example of a statement made in the New Testament that does not apply directly to you.  This is similar to the phrase "Ye are the salt of the earth".  Christ also said on another occasion, "Ye are of your father the devil".  Does this mean that everyone reading this sentence should believe that they come from their father the devil?  Of course not.

Another example: Paul once said in I Cor. 7:25-28 that it was better for a man not to marry, because of the "present distress" that the saints were in at that time.  Does this recommendation not to marry apply to any and all times?  Of course not.  There may come a time in our future when equally distressful times for Christians would again make it unadvisable to enter into a marriage, but that is for each generation to consider how it relates to their own situation. 

The FIRST question I am supposed to ask myself when I read ANYTHING in the New Testament (or the Old Testament, too) is NOT "What does this mean to me?"  The first question is supposed to be "What did this mean to those who were being spoken or written to back then, in those days?"  Once I understand who or what the original message and its audience was, THEN and ONLY THEN, do I take that information and consider if or how it applies to my own situation.  If I turn this process upside down, all kinds of confused teaching can crop up.  This process of understanding how Christ's or the apostles' listeners is those days were to understand a message is called "audience relevance".

Some principles in scripture are timeless, and apply to all generations without distinction.  This would be verses such as "...What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God" (Micah 6:8).  Other scriptures are relevant to the times they were written in, and have  no direct command for me to observe, although as a Christian I can still benefit by a general principle found in the text.  This would be verses such as Paul telling Timothy to diligently try to come to him before winter (II Tim. 4:21).  Although this was a directive from Paul  for Timothy alone, we can still apply the principle to sympathetically "remember those who are bound, as bound with them". 

Another one would be Christ's command in Luke 21:20-22 to "let them which be in Judea flee to the mountains" when they saw Jerusalem encompassed by armies.  There actually were about 1 and 1/4 million believers who did obey this command to get out of Judea, and they escaped the horrible conditions that were coming on Judea in those first-century days.  However, this command to "flee to the mountains" has absolutely no obligation for me to obey today.

As for an application to the original post, being "the salt of the earth" was relevant to Christ's audience at that time, which was still living under the Old Covenant (the "Salt of the Covenant of thy God" as Leviticus 2:13 described it).  Since we now "have salt *IN* OURSELVES" as living sacrifices who are under the New Covenant of Christ's blood, we also are to respond with faithful obedience to this covenant - even MORE SO than the Israelites were to be faithful to that Old Covenant, because our New Covenant is based upon "better promises", with Christ as our high priest who is "alive forevermore".

 
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 27, 2018 - 10:03:37 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline angelic

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #15 on: Mon Mar 26, 2018 - 22:34:06 »
Thank you for your time and knowledge!  ::smile::

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Salt and Light
« Reply #16 on: Tue Mar 27, 2018 - 10:08:51 »
angelic  -  You're more than welcome :- )   Any time or knowledge I've got, I'm borrowing, anyway - neither belongs to me - but be sure you check out what I've said by studying this out for yourself, to make certain it's the right stuff.  Through the years I have had to change many wrong beliefs I have held, so if you can take your own Bible and prove I've made a mistake on any of this, please do.