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Author Topic: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan  (Read 3577 times)

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Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2012, 03:24:18 AM »
You have been misinformed by the pope's porkies and the catholic con-men.
The catholics wern't formed by the devil until at least 300-600 years  later, FACT.
A fact that you will never ever be able to substantiate because the truth is you have been wallowing in porkies all this time and you insist in wallowing in them.  Which of course you decided of your own free will.

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Your problem is, You believe the pope's porkies and not the Bible or the true history of the catholic church.
No, the problem is I believe the truth and not the lies the protestants have concocted.

Historians have proved your lies false.  As a matter of fact, some Protestants knowing that what you are saying is a lie have gone on a different tack.  They decided to say yes the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established but around the 3rd century she apostasized so she is no longer that Church.

You are ignorant of Christian history. That by itself is not bad. Everyeone is ignorant of something at one point or another.  But you seem to be one who insists on remaining ignorant. That again is up to you - being a person of free will.  Ignorance is a free choice.

As for the Bible - it is  a Catholic book. You only have the Bible because of the Catholic Church.

You know what, much, much more intelligent men then you, much, much more learned men than you have found that to be the truth once they started to study.  But I think you are scared..terribly scared that you might find that to be the case as well. That is why you don't want to study.


Peace and All Good

Teresa

By His Wounds, we are healed.

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2012, 03:24:18 AM »

Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2012, 04:04:51 AM »
[1]Born again Christians are Saints, As you say you don't believe it, You are saying you don't believe the Bible,[BUT I ALREADY KNEW THAT].
See Rom 1: 7. 1 Cor 1: 2.  2 Cor 1: 1. Eph 1: 1.
Need I go on??.
The Bible rests it's case, You lose.  AGAIN.
It seems you are the one into giving heavy loads of porkers.

Rom 1:7 says you CALLED to be saints. It doesn't say that you are already a saint.
1 Cor 1:2 says the same thing again - CALLED TO BE saints.
2 Cor 1:1 - It seems Paul is referring only to the holy people in Corinth and Achaia
Eph 1:1  - Paul is clear, it is the holy people in Ephesus.

So it seems you have strung along verses that don't say what you want it to say. Yet Again.

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[2]There is no such Minister as a priest in the Bible's New testament Church.
It is you who doesn't want to know the truth, You know the Bible proves you wrong every time.
You can keep saying that till you turn blue and it won't make it true.
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[3]You have got, "Forgiveness" all wrong, We should forgive one another, But that isn't what Jesus is talking about in Jn 20: 23.
What He means is, We can tell a repentant person that their sins are rimited, And an un-repented sinner that they are still sinners.
Nowhere does the Bible say man has the authority to remit sins, Only God does that.
YOU REALLY REALLY DON'T KNOW THE BIBLE..DO YOU??.
No, it is you who doesn't know the Bible. You know why, becuase you twist it.  This text is so clear and yet you go through so much exegetical gymnastics.  Sad really.

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[4]Jesus IS talking to already believers in Matt 25..STOP TELLING LES.
He is showing what will happen to the good Christians and what will happen to the bad ones.
Nope.  When he gave that address they were not all believers. Stop twisting the Word of God.

Read it again. And I mean try to understand it. Don't read it through your DrTruth coloured glasses.  Allow the Word of God to speak freely. Don't force it to say what you want it to say.
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[5]PLEASE NOTE. 1 Pet 3: 20, It wasn't the watere that saved Noah.WAS IT??. NO..NO..The water would have killed them like it killed the rest of the people.
Then v21 says water is only a figure, A type of salvation.
PLEASE KEEP THE BIBLE IN IT'S RIGHT CONTEXT.
That is something that YOU should keep in mind. You have been busy twisting the Word of God.

So let us look at that text again.

18For Christ also suffered* for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit.g
19In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,*
20who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
21This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God* for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,i 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.j


Read that slowly.

Notice he speaks of Noah's ark and how they were saved through water. This saving via the water is WHAT prefigures baptism.
Then he says "baptism, which saves you now".

So therefore according to this text it is baptism that saves.

Get that?
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Also check out the Greek and you'll find out that water baptism doesn't save.
Yeah? where does it say that in the Greek? Or is this another of your porkies? It seems from what you have written you don't really know Greek. All that claim to know Greek is just show and there's nothing really there.
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[6]If you knew the TRUE catholic history instead of the pope's porkies, You will find that the catholic church wasn't formed by the devil until at least 300-600 years later.
Oh but I do know. You on the other hand probably do  not know how YOUR church started. Or is it that you don't have one except the Church of Dr Truth?
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And if the catholics were the true church and as they weren't here for the
first 300 -600years, What did God do before they came???.
Well, sorry but she was here from the beginning. The Catholic church was the one that started at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and the Blessed Mother and the other disciples.  

But of course you would not know that becuase you do not know history.

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 [7]Here we go AGAIN with that old catholic lie,  Petros, Kepha and cephas, All mean,
"A small stone that is easily moved or shaken".
Didn't Peter prove it?? YES he did.

The Greek word for "Rock" is "Petra", Not Kepha.

And did I say the Greek word for Rock is Kepha? What did I say? That the Aramaic word for Rock is Kepha.
Seriously Dr Truth, you can't even read properly so how is anyone supposed to take what you write seriously.
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You are trying to twist the truth...AGAIN.

PLEASE NOTE What Jesus didn't say.
"Thou art Peter and upon YOU I will build My Church" Jesus didn't say that..DID HE???. NO..NO..
He said,
"Thou art petros, [A small stone that is easily moved or shaken], And upon Petra, [A solid foundation]I will build My Church.

No Jesus did not say that either because Jesus spoke Aramaic and not Greek. What Jesus said was Simon barJonah, you are Rock and upon this rock I will build my church.

The Greek is only a translation.
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This proves that Jesus didn't build His Church on Peter, That is just another of the pope's porkies.
Forget about the lies of Rock being Male and female, They are two different Greek words with two different meanings.
catholics have to tell lies, Because the truth proves them wrong.  
That you do not even know that the Greek language is gendered proves that you are all bluster and nothing more. All you do is yada yada and strut around as if you know something and now you have been shown for what you are. This is where your pride and your anger got you.

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So much for your false Greek leason.
That you think this is false really just shows that you are ignorant of Greek. Hilarious.

But let us take this slowly again and in more detail (though I have no hope that you will get this one either).

Jesus spoke Aramaic. But then again that's proabably one of those thing you do not know.

Jesus did not say Petros and Jesus did not say Petra. He spoke Aramaic.  Get that so far?

So since He spoke Aramaic this is what Jesus said: So I say to you Simon BarJonah, You are Kepha and upon this kepha I will build my church.

Some say that the original text of Matthew is in Aramaic (Papias and Jerome have indicated this).

But let's suppose that that is in contention, and so we will just stick to how we received the Gospel and that Gospel is in Greek.

What the translator did was to translate the word Kepha - which is Rock in Aramaic. There are no other words for Rock in Aramaic. That is clear.

The Greek language as I have said before (which you so completely did not get even though it was so simple) is gendered same as Spanish, French and Italian. Things (Nouns) are either female or male. In this case rock is female and it is called petra. Still with me?

Now, how can they refer to Simon (who happens to be a man) as Petra. That would be so utterly ridiculus giving a man a female name.  So what they did is change that to Petros which is the male Greek equivalent of Petra.

And here is another thing, by the time of Jesus - petros and petra both refer to rock.  The distinction exists only in classical Greek and not in Koine Greek.  In Koine Greek the term for small stone or pebble is lithos.

But how do we really know that Christ did speak Aramaic. Well for one thing, the Bible is full of it.  
Secondly, Simon is referred to as Cephas.  This again is a masculinization of Kepha.

So let us take a look at John 1 40:42
Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard John and followed Jesus. 41He first found his own brother Simon and told him, “We have found the Messiah
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 04:23:10 AM by Teresa »
By His Wounds, we are healed.

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2012, 04:04:51 AM »

Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2012, 04:27:29 AM »
Dr Truth,

Here are some of what Protestant Scholars say regarding the petros/petra non-issue.  You are clearly behind the times.

Quotations from Protestant Biblical Scholars


William Hendriksen
 member of the Reformed Christian Church
 Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary

The meaning is, “You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church.
By His Wounds, we are healed.

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2012, 04:27:29 AM »

Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2012, 04:33:07 AM »
DrTruth, Debbie, Chosenone, Me/Myself and everyone who visits this thread,

If you should reply, I am sorry to say that I will not be able to reply back till after Easter.

Lent has begun so this is it for me till Easter.

The Grace and Peace of Our Lord be with you and yours.

May this season of Lent brings us all to a deeper understanding of our failings and bring us all to a deeper repentance and thus rejoice in God's great mercy.

I end with this beautiful song for Lent


Peace and All Good

Teresa
By His Wounds, we are healed.

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2012, 04:33:07 AM »

Offline grace

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2012, 06:54:59 AM »
Just wondering....where is the love in all these post????

Honestly...the more I study the more I realize that every religious denomination has some wrong teaching in their doctrines!

Perhaps that is true for the Protestant denominations but not for the Catholic Church.

Peace and All Good

Teresa

This was not against any certain denomination..and I was not talking just to you! Just an observation even about my own denomination...People would not get so defensive if they were not defending a religion! I do not defend a religion...a truth yes! God delivered me of a religious spirit a long time ago. I do not have anything against anyone...even if they do not believe the way I do. That said...all things can be done in love! without attacking each other!
Religion preoccupies man until he finds the Kingdom.
Religion is what man does until he finds the Kingdom.
Religion prepares man to leave earth; the Kingdom empowers man to dominate earth.
Religion focuses on Heaven; the Kingdom focuses on earth.
Religion is reaching up to God; the Kingdom is God coming down to man.
Religion wants to escape earth; the Kingdom impacts, influences and changes earth.
Religion seeks to take earth to Heaven; the Kingdom seeks to bring Heaven to earth.

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2012, 06:54:59 AM »



Offline MeMyself

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2012, 07:57:42 AM »
See, still no reason and just more of this emotive, hurt feelings type of talk.  

See? You are TELLING *me* what my feelings are.  HOW can this be productive in a two way conversation? It cant'.  How can you not see this as arrogant?

My feelings are NOT hurt. I do not wish to even try to converse with you, because no matter what I say, it is likely you will tell me what the "real" issue is...which is not the issue at all, and sort of calling me a liar.   ??? How do you not recognize this? 

You accuse me of being condemning and judging and when pressed to prove your accusation you go mum.

I go mum because you have proven yourself to deflect the issue, you will turn it back on me or the one whom you judged and make it OUR problem.  This is again, counter productive and I am not getting into a "Nah-unh!" "Uh-huh!" argument with you.

When asked to explain what you mean by my "tone" being arrogant, you can't explain that either instead you retreat into this kind of agrieved and hurt  response. Well definitely you are right. If that is the kind of discourse that we will be going through, then that is all rather pointless.

Its pointless because I don't enjoy the way you are speaking?  ::headscratch::  Okay!  ::smile:: Nooo problem!

The Lord bless you and keep you!
The Lord make His face shine upon you!
May He give you peace forever, Teresa.
~Rest is a weapon given to us by God through Jesus finished work at the cross.  The enemy hates it, because he wants you stressed and occupied.~
(*love* this quote)

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2012, 07:57:42 AM »

Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2012, 07:23:56 AM »
Just wondering....where is the love in all these post????

Honestly...the more I study the more I realize that every religious denomination has some wrong teaching in their doctrines!

Perhaps that is true for the Protestant denominations but not for the Catholic Church.

Peace and All Good

Teresa

This was not against any certain denomination..and I was not talking just to you! Just an observation even about my own denomination...People would not get so defensive if they were not defending a religion! I do not defend a religion...a truth yes! God delivered me of a religious spirit a long time ago. I do not have anything against anyone...even if they do not believe the way I do. That said...all things can be done in love! without attacking each other!
Religion preoccupies man until he finds the Kingdom.
Huh! True religion is ABOUT the Kingdom.
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Religion is what man does until he finds the Kingdom.
True religion is what leads man to the Kngdom.  No one knows of  the Kingdom except through religion or rather specifically the Church that Christ established on earth.  We would know hardly anything about the Kingdom except for that fact.  And how does one even begin seeking the kingdom if one does not know it even exists.
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Religion prepares man to leave earth; the Kingdom empowers man to dominate earth.
Well, if that is the kind of Kingdom you are talking about, then thank goodness religion does not seek that.
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Religion focuses on Heaven; the Kingdom focuses on earth.
Whose Kingdom?  The earthly Kingdom? That certainly is not the Christian Kingdom. So if that is the Kingdom you are talking about then thank goodness for true religion which does not seek such a kingdom.
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Religion is reaching up to God; the Kingdom is God coming down to man.
That almost makes sense but religion does not reach up to God, it can't do so.  God descends that man can ascend. You are making false categories and distinctions.

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Religion wants to escape earth; the Kingdom impacts, influences and changes earth.
False dichotomy yet again.  True religion is what shows you the Kingdom and how to bring it about.
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Religion seeks to take earth to Heaven; the Kingdom seeks to bring Heaven to earth.
Sorry but this is just nonsense. Religion wishes to take earth to heaven??!!!  You seriously need to study more and learn what religion is all about - true religion that is.

Peace and All Good

Teresa
By His Wounds, we are healed.

Offline Teresa

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Re: Salvation - How Everything Fits into God's Plan
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2012, 08:06:33 AM »
I go mum because you have proven yourself to deflect the issue, you will turn it back on me or the one whom you judged and make it OUR problem.  This is again, counter productive and I am not getting into a "Nah-unh!" "Uh-huh!" argument with you.

Let's put back some clarity into this discussion and the best way to do that is to trace the back and forth.

MM stands for you (MeMyself) and the numbers refer to the post number.

MM – # 15 :
Do you think that what Christ said in Matthew negates what Paul was directed by the Holy Spirit to say in Ephesians?

Do you feel that Paul was not a vessel through which God spoke?

Teresa # 17:  No. Paul does not negate Christ.

So therefore, if you are going to use Paul, you must reference it back to Christ and find a way to harmonize the two.
Please, please, please READ BEYOND THE EPISTLES

MM # 18 :   I have.They DO harmonize and I don't even HAVE to find a way! God is not the author of confusion. He says what He means. What Paul shared COMPLIMENTS, and CONFIRMS what Christ said about salvation.

Christ said HE was the ONLY way to the Father. Simple and easy to understand.

TERESA #19: But that is the one thing you have actually not done.

Let's just take two passages.

Take the one from Ephesians and then Matthew's gospel (Ch 25) about feeding the hungry and clothing the naked.

So how can you conclude that faith is all that is needed to be saved?

You will be able to harmonize them if you do not say that faith is the ONLY thing that is needed.

While you are trying to work that out, think about this too.

If faith in Christ is the ONLY thing necessary for salvation, then you are saying that all those who do not believe in Christ because God has not seen it fit to get the gospel to them (how can they believe if they do not hear) are therefore damned. You end up with Calvin's evil god.

And yes Christ is the ONLY way to the Father but not quite in the way you propose.

MM  # 21: Emoticon -shaking head. ::frown::

TERESA #  23: That's exactly what I expected. You won't be able to present a rebuttal because there is none.

MM # 29: Why even TRY to rebut? You diagnose, label, judge and condemn anyone who even TRIES to converse with you instead of listen
.[/color]
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Now pay attention to that post.  

I said you are  unable to rebut. What you came back with instead of rebutting is to accuse me of labelling, judging and condemning you!  Where in the above discourse that I have taken the pains to write here can you find me judging, labelling and condemning you?

Don’t you think it is rather irrational on your part to accuse me of that when all I have asked of you is to harmonize two passages in the Bible?  How is asking you to do that being judgmental, condemning and labelling? Makes no sense at all.

You went down that tack because you could not harmonize the passages that I have cited and so decided to make a personal attack on me by calling me judgmental and perhaps hoping that once you have done that the focus will be shifted away from you and the fact that you have no rebuttal.

It reminds me of the tactics of homosexual activists. When they start to lose ground in any discussion what they do is accuse those who are questioning their lifestyle of being homophobes and bigots.  Once they’ve done that they have shifted the discussion away from reason and made it a personal issue.  A neat tactic if one can manage it because it obscures the fact that one has not given rational arguments to back one’s position.

Peace and All Good.

Teresa


By His Wounds, we are healed.