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Offline LaSpino3

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Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« on: November 01, 2010, 11:14:43 AM »
Seth to Noah.

It must be under stood, that in the days before the flood, men lived 7-8-900 years. They having many sons and daughters. I would say that there were many marriages between brothers and sisters, cousins, etc. Cain is an example. It being apparent that Cain had married one of his sisters.

The following concerns the generations linked with the fathers of the human race who remained faithful to God. Seth is placed at the head of this holy linage. These men were not superior in their character because of nature, but because of God's grace.

There were from Seth to Noah, eight (8) generations of faithful servants of God. They were, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, and Noah.

Adam most likely conversed with Methuselah, and Methuselah with Shem, in this the history of the world, for the first 2000 years was preserved in these three witnesses, covering the time before, and just after the flood. 

The literal seed of men from Adam to Christ comes from men, and not women. Women do not produce the seed, they carry the seed.

Also, figuratively speaking, seed means descendants, we see this in Gen.13:16. It can also be applied to genealogy, or a class of people. As in the seed of evildoers, Isa.1:4, or the seed of Holy people, Isa.6:13. So this seed of promise in Gen.3:15, would be fulfilled, through Seth, Enos, --- through to Christ.

Following are the sons of God, beginning with Seth.

Eve said of Seth,  "God has appointed me another seed instead of Abel." Seth means, "A substitute." He was most likely a holy, pious man. His posterity became God's remnant according to the election of grace, those who had not bowed their knees to Baal.

Enos, the son of Seth,  means sickly, or mortal. When Enos was born, Moses tells us Gen.4:26, "Then began men to call upon the name of the LORD, (that is, Jehovah.)" To call upon the name of the Lord is in Scripture, to worship, and pray to Him.  Enos was probably a preacher of righteousness.

An evil, ungodly, immoral  climate had begun to prevail among the descendents of Cain. Yet good and godly men like Enos began to worship God. Good men began to distinguish themselves from the wicked.

Gen.6:1, reads, "Men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. The sons of God," or the descendants of Enos, "Seeing the daughters of men," descendents of Cain, saw they were fair" (beautiful,) and took them for wives.

This may have applied to many of Seth's son's and grandsons, but a few remained loyal to God. These were God's remnant.

Cainan was the son of Enos. Cainan was born when his father Enos was 90. Not much is said of him, but I would assume that being the son of Enos, and by the blessing of God, he remains loyal to God, Why? because he called one of his sons, Mahalaleel, meaning "Praise to God." At the age of 70, Cainan begat Mahalaleel.

Mahalaleel means, "Praiser and worshipper of God." At the age of 65  Mahalaleel begat Jared.

Jared Again, not much is said of him. Jared means descending.

Hebrew traditions tells us that a defection happened among SOME OF the sons of Seth, who went down from the mountains where they lived, and joined themselves to the daughter of Cain, thus the name Jared, "descended." But Jared must have been of faith because he named his son Enoch, meaning, "Consecrated."

Jared at the age of 162, begat Enoch.

Enoch was the son of Jared, and it is said of him, Gen.5:22, "He walked with God." Scriptures tell us that Moses "Walked before God," not with him. Only Enoch and Noah are said to have "Walked with God." To walk with God means to have faith in God. Faith is what pleases God.

Heb.11:5-6, tells us that Enoch at the age of 365 years was, "Translated (taken into heaven) that he should not see death."

At the age of 65, Enoch begat Methuselah. 

Methuselah lived to be 969 years old before he died. His death came in the very year of the great flood. His name means, "Man of the javelin."

At the age of 187, Methuselah begat Lamech, the father of Noah.

Lamech means, "undetermined." At the age of 182, he begat Noah. Lamech lived to be 777 years before he died.

Note, before the days of the flood, all of the sons mentioned above had died. None died in the flood, none died because of God's anger against mankind, all died of natural causes, except Noah. 

Did Lamech serve God? I would say yes because he called his son Noah, which means, "rest," and by the hope of "comfort," Gen.5:29. Lamech named his son Noah because of what he had anticipated in Noah's life.

Lamech had faith in the promise given to Adam, the promise of deliverance. This deliverance would come from chosen few. Seth, to Noah, Shem --- to Christ Jesus. We see this in the genealogies written in 1 Chron.1:3, and in Luke 3:36.

What is the final clue that the sons of God were from the line of Seth? It is revealed in Luke 3:38. When Luke's list was finished, the genealogies from Jesus back through time to Adam, he writes, quote, "Adam which was the son of God." If Adam was the son of God, so were those sons who came from his loins, those who remained faithful in the praise and worship of Jehovah.

Phillip LaSpino

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Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« on: November 01, 2010, 11:14:43 AM »

Offline alive_n_christ

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 12:22:01 PM »
my question is, if the "sons of God" were Adam's sons who were faithful to God, but became unfaithful when they intermarried this way, then how could it be said of Noah that he was a just man and perfect in his generations, if this corruption existed within his generations?
(Genesis 6:9~These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Also in Genesis 6:5-7~And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Yet, in vs. 8, we're told, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."
So, how could he find this grace in the eyes of the Lord, if this corruption somehow existed back in his generations somewheres?  For it would seem that God would have been grieved with his generations instead of favoring them with his grace. After all, it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
so, if it was Noah's generations that God was so grieved with, then how could Noah been a just man and perfect in his generations?

This is one of the reasons why I have a difficult time believing that Seth's lineage was the lineage in reference when it comes to "sons of God", also in  Jude 1:6~And the angelswhich kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

so, if the,"sons of God"here in Genesis 6:2 are in reference to "Adam's sons" and not "angels", then how does Jude 1:6 fit into the picture? When did these angels spoken of in Jude 1:6 commit such an act?

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 12:22:01 PM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 01:10:06 PM »
Hi Phil,

Some notes on names.  I thought you might be interested.

Cainan, according to my lexicon, means "Possession."  Also, following Hebrew naming convention for places, it could conceivably also mean "the district of Cain."  Either way, it seems to have to do with land.

Enoch - "consecrated" - is the 2nd person with this name in the Bible.  The 1st was named so because his birth coincided with the founding of a city.  A logical assumption might be that this was the reason the 2nd person was named this way as well.

I don't think Lamech means "undetermined." Gesenius' online lexicon shows that the exact meaning of the name isn't known.  Several theories are floating about: (a) it means "power" (b) it means "low place" or (c) the letters are a rearranged version of "malak" which is the Hebrew word for the king of a city-state.

Also, the Bible explicitly gives the reason for the naming of Noah:

Gen 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

I think that a lot of these names have to do with the descent from the nomadic life in the hills to the agricultural life of the towns in the lowland.  But that's just my opinion.

Jarrod
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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 01:10:06 PM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 01:11:58 PM »
my question is, if the "sons of God" were Adam's sons who were faithful to God, but became unfaithful when they intermarried this way, then how could it be said of Noah that he was a just man and perfect in his generations, if this corruption existed within his generations?
(Genesis 6:9~These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
It just means that among the men of his generation, he was found to be perfect.  That verse doesn't actually have anything to do with his race.

Jarrod
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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 01:11:58 PM »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 05:51:42 PM »
Alive in Christ,

 I am not sure what your asking. Lets see if I can guess.

Seth lived to be 807 years old. Lets say he had 100 children. 50 worshiped God, the others walked away, marrying descendents of Cain. All 100 are called the sons of God, but 50 fell into sin. 

One of the 50 who kept the faith was Enos. He lived to be 905 years old. Lets say he had 100 children, 20 remained faithful to God, the other 80 fell in their faith. The 100 would be called sons of God, but 80 fell away. 

Now by the time it came to Noah, all but Noah are said to have found grace in the eyes of God. It is not said weather his wife, three sons, and daughters in laws found grace in the eyes of God, and it makes no difference. Noah and all his siblings and relatives going back to Seth are called sons of God, but all fell into sin but Noah, and those who died natural deaths before the flood. 

Two things must be considered. Noah's family remained under the grace of God because Noah remained faithful, and he was the head of the family. Also God made a promise in Gen.3:15, that he would crush the head of the serpent through the seed of man. It was God's determination, and His will to keep Noah's wife, three sons, and daughters alive in order to repopulate the earth.

Some have estimated that up to 5 billion people could have been alive at the time of the flood, this because of the ages achieved. And what is also apparent is, all but 8 were seen fix to live. Lets say 2 billion of them were from the line of Seth. All can be called the sons of God, but because of their sin, they died in the flood.

Remember, Lamech, Noah's father, and Methuselah the father of Lamech, he being the oldest man to ever live. All these remained faithful sons of God, and all died of natural causes, old age.

Hopefully I explained it properly, that's the best I can do.

Phil LaSpino

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 05:51:42 PM »



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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 06:02:10 PM »
The flaw in the original argument is the assumption that because one of Adams sons sinned(Cain) therefore his descendants would be called sons and daughters of MEN, while on the other hand, Adams son Seth,who did not sin as Cain,that his descendants would be called the sons and daughters of God.  For crying out loud, they were all sons and daughters of ADAM.  Also, why would the union between one of Adams sons who was trying to follow God,and one of Adams daughters who was not following God, produce a man of incredible physical ability??? What people believe about God does not affect genetics,a good man who marries a bad girl will not produce a mighty man of physical ability.

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 06:02:10 PM »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 08:10:37 AM »
Let me post one quick overview on this subject of Gen.6. Let me quote the verse in question.

Gen.6:1, "It came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them."

Ver.1 states that MEN began to multiply on the earth. Not angels, not any creatures, pre-historic men, or hybrids.

What is taking place here is, there are certain people who are taking Job 1:6, "There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." and transferring it over to Gen.6.

Note Satan is not called a "son of God," he only came among the "sons of God." No fallen angel is ever to be called the son of God. These  same people say Ahhhh, see here, these sons in Gen.6, must be spirit creatures like those in Job 1. They totally ignoring ver.1, where it clearly states, "Men began to multiply on the face of the earth."

Lets look at Luke 38, "Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

Luke wrote this 4000 years after the fall of mankind in the garden. Yet he calls a fallen Adam, and Seth, who were under the curse, "son's of God."

Its all about removing the curse God put on men in the garden. Noah, Abraham, Moses, no matter how good, how righteous they may have been, ALL remain under the curse. A linage of men, starting with Seth was appointed to bring in the Redeemer. Through him would come salvation, and the ancient curse on mankind would be removed.

God can raise up stones to be his children. He makes the blood of martyrs to be the seed of the church. He made the descendents of Seth's seed to bring in the Messiah.

Sons of God is applicable only to those who come from the loins of Seth. The daughters of men are those of the line of Cain. Those daughters of men are without faith, worshippers of false God's, or no God at all. They were with us before the flood, and they are with us today.

To add hybrid creatures to this mix is to add to what Scriptures teach.

Phil LaSpino

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 07:24:12 PM »
If Seth is the "godly" line, why does he cavort with "ungodly" women. And why does their union produce giants? This is stupid. And more importantly, why does everyone care so much when we know so little about the grace of God in Jesus Christ, and are more concerned with pre and post diluvian theories which have no bearing on our inheritance in Christ!
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Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 10:50:10 AM »
Lukesarrus.

You wrote, "If Seth is the "godly" line, why does he cavort with "ungodly" women."

I am amazed, and amused at your question. What it reveals to me is, you haven't spent one minute reading any of the posts.

But I will answer your question. Why did he (Seth) cavort with ungodly women?"

Answer, "He didn't."

If you desire to believe that fallen angels are called sons of God, and had the power to turn themselves in humans, marry women, procreate, have children, then raise the children etc. than do so.

But if you do, than why would Christ birth by a woman be so miraculous? It would not if fallen angels had done it on a regular basis. I guess it would just be common practice in the spirit world. Also it would have to be said that God aided in these pre-flood sins because it is God that gives sanction to all life.

If it happened before the flood, what is stopping it from happening now? Maybe Hitler, Kahn, Stalin, Moa, Saddam, Nero, the kid next store, or whoever may be one of these hybrid creatures, ready to be revealed as the man of perdition.  ???  Can you imagine your surprise if the kid next store was one of them, and you had just attended their birthday party, and gave them a gift.

Phil LaSpino

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 10:50:10 AM »

Offline Snargles

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 02:22:11 PM »
Quote
Methuselah lived to be 969 years old before he died. His death came in the very year of the great flood. His name means, "Man of the javelin."

Note, before the days of the flood, all of the sons mentioned above had died. None died in the flood, none died because of God's anger against mankind, all died of natural causes, except Noah. 
Phillip LaSpino

How do we know Methuselah didn't die in the flood? Are you basing this on Methuselah being righteous and only unrighteous people dying in the flood?

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 02:22:11 PM »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 03:09:35 PM »
Snargles, you asked, "How do we know Methuselah didn't die in the flood? Are you basing this on Methuselah being righteous and only unrighteous people dying in the flood?"

Phil replies, Gen.5:27, "And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

Phil LaSpino

Offline Snargles

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 04:15:40 PM »
I have always assumed he lived 969 years and then the flood came and he drowned. Either way it doesn't affect my salvation; its one of those little curiosities of the Bible.

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 07:01:28 AM »
Snargles, you asked, "How do we know Methuselah didn't die in the flood? Are you basing this on Methuselah being righteous and only unrighteous people dying in the flood?"

Phil replies, Gen.5:27, "And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

Phil LaSpino

How does that necessarily mean that he didn't die in the flood?  It doesn't say how he died.  It just says he died.

We know that he died in the year of the flood.  So, he could have either died of other causes coincidentally in that same year before the flood.  Or, he could have died in the flood itself.  We don't know.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 12:18:03 PM »
Snargles, you asked, "How do we know Methuselah didn't die in the flood? Are you basing this on Methuselah being righteous and only unrighteous people dying in the flood?"

Phil replies, Gen.5:27, "And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

Phil LaSpino

How does that necessarily mean that he didn't die in the flood?  It doesn't say how he died.  It just says he died.

We know that he died in the year of the flood.  So, he could have either died of other causes coincidentally in that same year before the flood.  Or, he could have died in the flood itself.  We don't know.
Interesting fact:

The Greek translation of the Old Testament that they had in New Testament days (the LXX) lists Methusaleh's life as being longer than the 969 years our current Hebrew manuscripts (MSS) list.

Interesting speculation:

Since the Hebrew MSS were "updated" in about 300AD, there's a chance that the rabbis at that time "fixed" his life length so that it doesn't show him living through the flood. 

Because clearly that would be an error.  ::lookaround::  ::whistle::

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Offline gospel

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Re: Seth to Noah, sons of God.
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 01:24:24 PM »
If Seth is the "godly" line, why does he cavort with "ungodly" women. And why does their union produce giants? This is stupid. And more importantly, why does everyone care so much when we know so little about the grace of God in Jesus Christ, and are more concerned with pre and post diluvian theories which have no bearing on our inheritance in Christ!

 ::amen!::

I absolutely agree with you...this whole matter should be discussed in the light of redemption because short of that nothing else really matters

This whole song and dance bit of focusing on things that bear little or no substance regarding redemption is one of the main reasons most Christians do not know their covenant and do not understand the bible

All that matters about the flood is that God reserved a righteous blood line through which the Messiah would be born

All that matters about any of the OT Books is the consistent manner in which God preached the gospel

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He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 06:16:10 PM by gospel »
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