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Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

In my mind, the prayer is only appropriate coming from a believer.

Certainly, a non-believer won't be saying the prayer (and mean it).

Quote from: Apollos on August 08, 2008, 08:08:47 AM

Quote from: JerryW on August 07, 2008, 10:17:51 PM

The reason people like the "sinner's prayer" is because that is the way the Evangelical Church has taught salvation for many years. The sinner's prayer is not Bibical, neither has it ever saved a single soul! It only has deceived many into thinking they are saved. Their salvation is built on "man's wisdom" and not in the power of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul taught salvation with these words, "repent and believe".  Paul also says "faith comes from hearing".

Jerry,

In your view, is the Sinner's prayer NOT Biblical or UNbiblical?

Did you ever hear anyone using the Sinner's prayer say that the prayer itself saves? I have not. As far as I know, the prayer is just a means to an end, NOT the end itself.  The Sinner's prayer points to Jesus and NOT to the prayer itself. It is usually used at the end of a counselling session with someone who believes in the Gospel. Thus, I have no problem using it.

blessings

Apollos

Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

The demons believe in Jesus Christ.  I understand that some feel that the Sinner's Prayer is a method to help folks on a journey of faith.  However, the "method becomes the madness" (it becomes a part of the gospel to some folks).  Faith is a bit more than believing in the gospel.

I guess I'm missing any kind of example of "Pray this prayer, asking Jesus into your heart, and you will be saved," in how the gospel was preached and how folks were told to respond to it in the Bible.

You won't find it.  Or the 5 Steps.  You will those who live by faith in Christ in the bible.

http://media04.sa-media.com/sermons019/52906154239.mp3

Sermon Audio has this to say about this sermon:

Quote

This is a Shockingly Powerful & Biblical message
preached to about 5,000 youth in a day when youth
are appealed to through shallow and worldly means.

At one point in this sermon the 5,000 Youth are
clapping and yelling BUT THEN the preacher makes
a comment that CHANGES THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE TO
WHERE YOU COULD HAVE HEARD A PIN DROP... As you
can imagine, the preacher was never invited back.

We believe the whole sermon will be a blessing
to many souls. For more info about Paul Washer
go to www.heartcrymissionary.com

This is a sermon that we all need to hear.  He speanks the truth.

Quote from: JerryW on August 07, 2008, 10:17:51 PM

The reason people like the "sinner's prayer" is because that is the way the Evangelical Church has taught salvation for many years. The sinner's prayer is not Bibical, neither has it ever saved a single soul! It only has deceived many into thinking they are saved. Their salvation is built on "man's wisdom" and not in the power of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul taught salvation with these words, "repent and believe".  Paul also says "faith comes from hearing".

Jerry,

In your view, is the Sinner's prayer NOT Biblical or UNbiblical?

Did you ever hear anyone using the Sinner's prayer say that the prayer itself saves? I have not. As far as I know, the prayer is just a means to an end, NOT the end itself.  The Sinner's prayer points to Jesus and NOT to the prayer itself. It is usually used at the end of a counselling session with someone who believes in the Gospel. Thus, I have no problem using it.

blessings

Apollos

Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical. To me they both mean the same thing.  As far as hearing somebody say that the sinners prayer saves, I cannot recall anybody exactly saying that , but it is certainly implied. This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of. The main problem with the"sinner's prayer" is it leaves people with a false sense of salvation. One other thing I might add is a unbeliever has no access to the throne of God, thus the prayer he prays is not even taken into consideration by God. Jesus said the "only way to my Father is thru me". and that would be only thru a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

To me, that sermon wasn't real shocking.  I've heard preaching like that my entire life.


JerryWThere is a big difference between something that may not be mentioned in the Bible and something that is spoken against in the Bible.  That's what Apollos seems to be trying to say by using those two terms. 

spurly,

Thanks. That is exactly what I was trying to learn from Jerry.

Jerry,

Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical. To me they both mean the same thing.  As far as hearing somebody say that the sinners prayer saves, I cannot recall anybody exactly saying that , but it is certainly implied. This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of. The main problem with the"sinner's prayer" is it leaves people with a false sense of salvation. One other thing I might add is a unbeliever has no access to the throne of God, thus the prayer he prays is not even taken into consideration by God. Jesus said the "only way to my Father is thru me". and that would be only thru a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Certainly implied? Not by a long shot. CoC folks, I believe, would cry 'FOUL' if I call them baptismal regenerationists. The same argument applies. Just because some folks used the method wrongly does not make it bad. We educate them. We do not throw out the baby with the bath water.

This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of.

I find that offensive. You are saying we treat salvation matters flippantly. I assure you that we don't. We are dead (forgive the pun) serious about what the Bible has to say regarding salvation.

And as I have mentioned, the prayer is used after a period of counselling with the Word of God. That is the context of the Sinner's prayer.

blessings
Apollos

Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical.

More to the point, perhaps there's a difference between non-Biblical and anti-Biblical.

"Non-Biblical" is teaching something that isn't taught in the Bible (but not necessarily taught against either).

"Anti-Biblical," on the other hand, would be to teach something that is against or contrary to other Biblical teachings.