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Author Topic: Shocking Sermon  (Read 9540 times)

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Offline Bonnie

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2008, 08:15:26 AM »
The reason people like the "sinner's prayer" is because that is the way the Evangelical Church has taught salvation for many years. The sinner's prayer is not Bibical, neither has it ever saved a single soul! It only has deceived many into thinking they are saved. Their salvation is built on "man's wisdom" and not in the power of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul taught salvation with these words, "repent and believe".  Paul also says "faith comes from hearing".

Jerry,

In your view, is the Sinner's prayer NOT Biblical or UNbiblical?

Did you ever hear anyone using the Sinner's prayer say that the prayer itself saves? I have not. As far as I know, the prayer is just a means to an end, NOT the end itself.  The Sinner's prayer points to Jesus and NOT to the prayer itself. It is usually used at the end of a counselling session with someone who believes in the Gospel. Thus, I have no problem using it.

blessings

Apollos

Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2008, 08:15:26 AM »

Offline DCR

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2008, 08:48:36 AM »
Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

In my mind, the prayer is only appropriate coming from a believer.

Certainly, a non-believer won't be saying the prayer (and mean it).

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2008, 08:48:36 AM »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2008, 08:57:48 AM »
Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

In my mind, the prayer is only appropriate coming from a believer.

Certainly, a non-believer won't be saying the prayer (and mean it).

No, the non-believer most likely wouldn't even understand it but I understood that the the sinner is the one who repeats it and believes themselves saved by doing so.

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2008, 08:57:48 AM »

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2008, 09:03:15 AM »
The reason people like the "sinner's prayer" is because that is the way the Evangelical Church has taught salvation for many years. The sinner's prayer is not Bibical, neither has it ever saved a single soul! It only has deceived many into thinking they are saved. Their salvation is built on "man's wisdom" and not in the power of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul taught salvation with these words, "repent and believe".  Paul also says "faith comes from hearing".

Jerry,

In your view, is the Sinner's prayer NOT Biblical or UNbiblical?

Did you ever hear anyone using the Sinner's prayer say that the prayer itself saves? I have not. As far as I know, the prayer is just a means to an end, NOT the end itself.  The Sinner's prayer points to Jesus and NOT to the prayer itself. It is usually used at the end of a counselling session with someone who believes in the Gospel. Thus, I have no problem using it.

blessings

Apollos

Why is the prayer used with an already believer?

The demons believe in Jesus Christ.  I understand that some feel that the Sinner's Prayer is a method to help folks on a journey of faith.  However, the "method becomes the madness" (it becomes a part of the gospel to some folks).  Faith is a bit more than believing in the gospel.

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2008, 09:03:15 AM »

Offline DCR

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2008, 09:06:09 AM »
I guess I'm missing any kind of example of "Pray this prayer, asking Jesus into your heart, and you will be saved," in how the gospel was preached and how folks were told to respond to it in the Bible.

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2008, 09:06:09 AM »



Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2008, 09:07:50 AM »
I guess I'm missing any kind of example of "Pray this prayer, asking Jesus into your heart, and you will be saved," in how the gospel was preached and how folks were told to respond to it in the Bible.

You won't find it.  Or the 5 Steps.  You will those who live by faith in Christ in the bible.

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2008, 09:07:50 AM »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2008, 09:09:18 AM »
I guess I'm missing any kind of example of "Pray this prayer, asking Jesus into your heart, and you will be saved," in how the gospel was preached and how folks were told to respond to it in the Bible.

It isn't in the Bible.

Offline davidandme

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2008, 12:18:12 PM »
http://media04.sa-media.com/sermons019/52906154239.mp3

Sermon Audio has this to say about this sermon:

Quote
This is a Shockingly Powerful & Biblical message
preached to about 5,000 youth in a day when youth
are appealed to through shallow and worldly means.

At one point in this sermon the 5,000 Youth are
clapping and yelling BUT THEN the preacher makes
a comment that CHANGES THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE TO
WHERE YOU COULD HAVE HEARD A PIN DROP... As you
can imagine, the preacher was never invited back.

We believe the whole sermon will be a blessing
to many souls. For more info about Paul Washer
go to www.heartcrymissionary.com



This is a sermon that we all need to hear.  He speanks the truth.

Offline grace

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2008, 12:32:56 PM »
http://media04.sa-media.com/sermons019/52906154239.mp3

Sermon Audio has this to say about this sermon:

Quote
This is a Shockingly Powerful & Biblical message
preached to about 5,000 youth in a day when youth
are appealed to through shallow and worldly means.

At one point in this sermon the 5,000 Youth are
clapping and yelling BUT THEN the preacher makes
a comment that CHANGES THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE TO
WHERE YOU COULD HAVE HEARD A PIN DROP... As you
can imagine, the preacher was never invited back.

We believe the whole sermon will be a blessing
to many souls. For more info about Paul Washer
go to www.heartcrymissionary.com


I have never heard of Him, but after I heard this sermon (which was awsome!) I now have him on my itunes...for my ipod! I will listen to more...thanks for the link!

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2008, 12:32:56 PM »

Offline JerryW

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2008, 07:20:05 PM »
The reason people like the "sinner's prayer" is because that is the way the Evangelical Church has taught salvation for many years. The sinner's prayer is not Bibical, neither has it ever saved a single soul! It only has deceived many into thinking they are saved. Their salvation is built on "man's wisdom" and not in the power of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul taught salvation with these words, "repent and believe".  Paul also says "faith comes from hearing".

Jerry,

In your view, is the Sinner's prayer NOT Biblical or UNbiblical?

Did you ever hear anyone using the Sinner's prayer say that the prayer itself saves? I have not. As far as I know, the prayer is just a means to an end, NOT the end itself.  The Sinner's prayer points to Jesus and NOT to the prayer itself. It is usually used at the end of a counselling session with someone who believes in the Gospel. Thus, I have no problem using it.

blessings

Apollos
Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical. To me they both mean the same thing.  As far as hearing somebody say that the sinners prayer saves, I cannot recall anybody exactly saying that , but it is certainly implied. This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of. The main problem with the"sinner's prayer" is it leaves people with a false sense of salvation. One other thing I might add is a unbeliever has no access to the throne of God, thus the prayer he prays is not even taken into consideration by God. Jesus said the "only way to my Father is thru me". and that would be only thru a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2008, 07:20:05 PM »

Offline spurly

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2008, 07:22:51 PM »
To me, that sermon wasn't real shocking.  I've heard preaching like that my entire life.


JerryWThere is a big difference between something that may not be mentioned in the Bible and something that is spoken against in the Bible.  That's what Apollos seems to be trying to say by using those two terms. 

Offline Apollos

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2008, 08:43:25 PM »
To me, that sermon wasn't real shocking.  I've heard preaching like that my entire life.


JerryWThere is a big difference between something that may not be mentioned in the Bible and something that is spoken against in the Bible.  That's what Apollos seems to be trying to say by using those two terms. 

spurly,

Thanks. That is exactly what I was trying to learn from Jerry.

Jerry,

Quote
Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical. To me they both mean the same thing.  As far as hearing somebody say that the sinners prayer saves, I cannot recall anybody exactly saying that , but it is certainly implied. This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of. The main problem with the"sinner's prayer" is it leaves people with a false sense of salvation. One other thing I might add is a unbeliever has no access to the throne of God, thus the prayer he prays is not even taken into consideration by God. Jesus said the "only way to my Father is thru me". and that would be only thru a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Certainly implied? Not by a long shot. CoC folks, I believe, would cry 'FOUL' if I call them baptismal regenerationists. The same argument applies. Just because some folks used the method wrongly does not make it bad. We educate them. We do not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Quote
This is the most common "method" that is used in the evangelical churches to "save" people. There is a altar call, people come forward and say "the prayer" and "accept Jesus in there heart".  Or you might have a unsaved person and you open your Bible and show him some "salvation verses" and you "help" him say "the prayer" and he is on his way heaven(At least he thinks that). and the word "repentance" is never even mentioned or probably even not thought of.

I find that offensive. You are saying we treat salvation matters flippantly. I assure you that we don't. We are dead (forgive the pun) serious about what the Bible has to say regarding salvation.

And as I have mentioned, the prayer is used after a period of counselling with the Word of God. That is the context of the Sinner's prayer.

blessings
Apollos

« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 06:07:39 AM by Apollos »

Offline dmcca

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2008, 12:15:01 AM »
What is the "sinners prayer" does anyone have a copy of it, or is a free text kind of thing? Is it the bible verse, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.? I've heard about it. I know it has something to do with Baptists, but that's all I know.

Offline DCR

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2008, 12:53:29 AM »
Apollos,  to answer your questions I don"t see any difference between NOT Biblical and UNBiblical.

More to the point, perhaps there's a difference between non-Biblical and anti-Biblical.

"Non-Biblical" is teaching something that isn't taught in the Bible (but not necessarily taught against either).

"Anti-Biblical," on the other hand, would be to teach something that is against or contrary to other Biblical teachings.

Offline DCR

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Re: Shocking Sermon
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2008, 01:01:29 AM »
What is the "sinners prayer" does anyone have a copy of it, or is a free text kind of thing? Is it the bible verse, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.? I've heard about it. I know it has something to do with Baptists, but that's all I know.


Googling it turned up this site:  http://www.sinner-prayer.com/

Quote
Sinner's Prayer - Recognizing the Need
The "Sinner's Prayer" is a term that describes the words spoken by a person when he or she has recognized their sin and their need for a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It goes something like this:

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.