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Author Topic: Spiritual Gifts  (Read 3887 times)

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Spiritual Gifts
« on: February 07, 2003, 07:18:22 AM »
don't forget casting out demons! (or is that under miraculous powers?)

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Spiritual Gifts
« on: February 07, 2003, 07:18:22 AM »

Offline charlie

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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2003, 08:36:25 AM »
I wonder just what percentage of instances of claimed miracles/healings/speaking in tongues are fakes. No way to tell now, of course. But it would be neat to know.

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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2003, 08:36:25 AM »

Offline spurly

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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2003, 07:52:20 AM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (OldDad @ Feb. 07 2003,10:33)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Some random thoughts...

For the record, I voted and believe that all Spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible are available and in use today.  I have in life and ministry witnessed and experienced all the gifts Nevertheless listed.

Wayne Grudem does a wonderful job of dismantling the notion that the \"perfect\" of 1 Corinthians 13 is anything other than the return of Christ for His church, in his book The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today.

I am aware that pagan cultures speak in tongues, practice \"psychic\" healing, etc.  That is why the Gifts cannot, alone, be proof of the work of the Spirit.  The Fruit of the Spirit is the true evidence that the Spirit is active in one's life.  Satan can counterfeit the gifts, he cannot counterfeit the fruit.

OD[/quote]
Old Dad,

I have never really bought into the idea that \"the perfect\" in 1 Corinthians 13 refered to the \"finalized canon of Scripture\".  That, to me, seemed like a complete stretch.

\"The perfect\", \"The complete\", whatever you want to call it, will never come until Christ returns for his church and takes us home.

Kevin
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2003, 07:52:20 AM »

Offline Nevertheless

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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2003, 02:22:25 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]don't be surprised at the results of any poll.
[/quote]

Wise words that I should have remembered.  I've always been skeptical of survey results.  Any survey is from the start faulty because it automatically excludes the opinions of those who refuse to answer.

I guess I asked the question because I've found myself whirling in circles lately in a manner of speaking.  I think a certain way, so it is natural for me to think that others think the same way I do.  Then I discover that many people don't think that way and I start thinking maybe I'm the only one?  So I ask my question.

So in this poll, at least, I voted with the majority.  Not sure it helped my understanding any, but maybe. . .

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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2003, 02:22:25 PM »

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2003, 01:58:04 PM »
what was the purpose of mirculous gifts?

you that say any gift is available today:

why? what is the need for the miraculous gifts of the NT?

why would you need to suddenly speak in another language?

how could you possibly need to heal a man paralyzed from birth?

why should you be able to cast out demons?

in the NT these miracles were believable to the masses,
they proved that Jesus was Jesus and that the apostles were from God
miracles that are claimed today are dismissed by the masses as lies and cause Christians to be labeled as hokey shamans or storytellers

what do miracles do today?

can any of you perform miracles?
what miracles have you seen performed?

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2003, 01:58:04 PM »



Offline Nevertheless

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2003, 09:55:42 PM »
As it is the Holy Spirit who does the giving isn't it appropriate for Him to also determine the need?

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2003, 09:55:42 PM »

Offline Nevertheless

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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2003, 05:44:34 PM »
So what do you think?  Does the Holy Spirit give gifts to Christ's followers today or not?  Has the expiration date passed for some gifts?

Here are the spiritual gifts I found:

Speaking
Serving
Wisdom
Knowledge
Faith
Healing
Miraculous powers
Prophecy
Distinguishing between spirits
Speaking in tongues
Interpretation of tongues
Helping
Administration
Teaching
Encouraging
Giving
Leadership
Showing mercy

Did I miss any?

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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2003, 01:41:11 AM »
I voted for other, and I have no idea what I mean by that. :alien:
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Offline Nevertheless

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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2003, 08:21:00 AM »
God is so much bigger than we can possibly imagine, and we continue to try to stuff Him into a little box.  I fully believe that God would do \"exceeding abundantly more than we can ask or imagine\" if only we would believe.


newtome, I don't think I've read of a specific gift of casting out demons.  I'm not sure what category I'd put that in.

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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2003, 08:21:00 AM »

Offline Nevertheless

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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2003, 09:06:46 AM »
I wonder too.  There's also the fact that our minds can do more with our bodies than we think.  I'm not discounting miracles!  I've experienced miracles in my own life.  I've also experienced what might be called the placebo effect.

I once had a terrible headache.  I had no medicines with me, and by the time I got home I was desperate for relief.  As I swallowed the Tylenol my headache lessened, and within a very few minutes it was completely gone.  Later I thought about it and realized that the medicine could not possibly have worked that fast.  I simply believed so strongly that taking the pills would make my headache go away that my body made it happen.  Of course it's never happened since then because now I \"know better\".   ;)

And headaches are in a completely different category than broken bones, tumors, and death!

Never

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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2003, 09:06:46 AM »

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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2003, 09:33:55 PM »
Some random thoughts...

For the record, I voted and believe that all Spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible are available and in use today.  I have in life and ministry witnessed and experienced all the gifts Nevertheless listed.

Wayne Grudem does a wonderful job of dismantling the notion that the \"perfect\" of 1 Corinthians 13 is anything other than the return of Christ for His church, in his book The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today.

I am aware that pagan cultures speak in tongues, practice \"psychic\" healing, etc.  That is why the Gifts cannot, alone, be proof of the work of the Spirit.  The Fruit of the Spirit is the true evidence that the Spirit is active in one's life.  Satan can counterfeit the gifts, he cannot counterfeit the fruit.

OD
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2003, 10:52:12 PM »
All's I'm gonna say is that I'm very surprised by the outcome on this poll.  I did not expect such an overwhelming landslide towards the \"all\".  I find this interesting.   :idea: Something to think about.  Thanks to Nevertheless, our crafty pollster.

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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2003, 11:27:56 AM »
I too am surprised by the outcome of this poll.  I expected more of an even split between the two middle choices.

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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2003, 02:12:24 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]dj wrote:
wise minority still exists among the gcm membership, and takes brave stand against theological immenentists.[/quote]
Considering the writings of the apostles, and those closely associated with them, such a statement would deem them unwise.

But, then again, one of those same apostles wrote the following regarding such wisdom:
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]\"And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory...\" (1 Cor. 2:1-7, KJV)[/quote]
 :thumbup:

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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2003, 01:12:57 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I wrote the following on on Feb. 8th:[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Old Dad wrote:
Wayne Grudem does a wonderful job of dismantling the notion that the \"perfect\" of 1 Corinthians 13 is anything other than the return of Christ for His church, in his book The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today.[/quote]
Thanks for the recommendation, OD. I plan on ordering it, and hope to read it by sometime next week.

(By the way, I also voted with the majority... But not because it was the majority.)[/quote]
Well, I picked-up my copy of Grudem's book on Friday. I haven't started it yet, but did skim through parts of it. His analysis of 1 Corinthians 13 is decent, and he makes some valid points... Some of which need to be understood in the context of the rest of the book. (I guess I should read the whole thing before commenting too much further on it!).