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k-pappy

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Starbucks in the lobby?
« on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 18:52:41 »
What do you all think of coffee shops in the church lobby?

I don't mean they provide coffee and donuts before the service for fellowship, I mean an actual stand where they sell coffee, mochas, lattes, scones, pastries, etc...

Basically, a starbucksesque type of coffee shop, IN THE CHURCH!

Is charging $2 for a cup of coffee anything like the money changers overcharging in the temple?

Is there a line when going to church is like going to the  mall?

Thoughts?  Opinions?

In Christ,
KP

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Starbucks in the lobby?
« on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 18:52:41 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 18:59:07 »
If you can't get a chorizo and egg burrito there, it's a waste of time.  ::bueno::   No Beans though! 

::blushing::

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 18:59:07 »

Offline MarkHooper

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:05:26 »

 This is something to think about. It's not just coffee Christian merchandise is multibillion dollar business. However the money changer were something else in comparison it would be like charging to go to the bathroom and having a coinstar next to the door.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:05:26 »

Robert Pate

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:15:17 »
So that is what it has come to.  I knew that organized religion was in bad shape, but I didn't know that it had become a coffee shop.  I would go if they had glazed donuts.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:15:17 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Jaime

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:17:37 »
So that is what it has come to.  I knew that organized religion was in bad shape, but I didn't know that it had become a coffee shop.  I would go if they had glazed donuts.

That would put you under the "Glazed Donut Law", Robert..........conditional salvation, if you will.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:17:37 »



Offline memmy

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:21:11 »
To me, not really a problem.

We meet in a YMCA right now, there are machines in the lobby to get drinks or snacks from, but we also bring snacks and coffee, or juice for the congregation after the service.

To me it is just a building anyways.

The money changers were there to rip off those entering the temple, saying that what they brought as an offering wasn't as good as what they had to sell, and chose to make a profit on those because of that. They also were saying their money was not worth as much, so made a profit in that too. So basically they were taking something meant to come from the heart of those who offered, and took advantage of them in the name of God.

Starbucks? Doesn't come close to that type of thing to me, anyways.

Blessings, Memmy

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:21:11 »

the J Man

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #6 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:22:47 »




Is charging $2 for a cup of coffee anything like the money changers overcharging in the temple?



I'n surprised they stay in business after charging $2 bucks just for a cup of coffee.

da525382

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #7 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:28:26 »
We've got one, it is a great ministry and great fun for those who work in it. As you can imagine, our church demographic is on the young side.  We've grown so much, our church building is already small again and our brand new building is only a year and a half old. Our church started about 7 years ago with just a handful of people.  Our growth has awed many here, and the glory is always given to God for it.  Four pastors now, actually five if you count the on-campus ministry, still growing.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #8 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:32:50 »




Is charging $2 for a cup of coffee anything like the money changers overcharging in the temple?



I'n surprised they stay in business after charging $2 bucks just for a cup of coffee.
That's a typical price here in the NE.  When I was in TX I thought Starbucks was expensive, then came here and found out it's just typical.  Even diner coffee will set you back $1.50-$1.75.

But paying for coffee when you're with family would have me heading for the door....but then maybe those congregations don't see themselves and their customers as family.  Just to give them the benefit of the doubt, where do the nonprofits go?  Wouldn't/shouldn't this compromise their non-profit status (or do individuals own the businesses in the lobby?

I have been to such a place (Prestonwood in Plano, TX), but I don't know the answers to the questions I just asked in their case.  My impression was that it all goes to them.  That place is swankier than most malls.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #8 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:32:50 »

marc

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #9 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:36:46 »
Do they offer pew upgrades for members of their frequent worshipper club, or can you buy them outright? 

We serve coffee and snacks where I go to church, too.  Maybe we should start charging for it.  'course most of the congregation wouldn't be able to afford $2 for a cup of coffee.  Oh well; this would help weed out the undesirables.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #10 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:37:43 »
Do they offer pew upgrades for members of their frequent worshipper club, or can you buy them outright? 

We serve coffee and snacks where I go to church, too.  Maybe we should start charging for it.  'course most of the congregation wouldn't be able to afford $2 for a cup of coffee.  Oh well; this would help weed out the undesirables.
    Peggy: Maybe, we should try the new megachurch.

    Hank: I don't wanna change churches. Besides, that place is too big. What's it got–5,000 some-odd members?

    Peggy: Yes! And it pampers all of them. They've got their very own coffee shop, florist, mini-mart, bank, and a dry cleaner that accepts all competitors' coupons.

    Hank: If I wanted to go that route, I could just walk around the mall and think about Jesus.

Offline Sherman Nobles

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #11 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:40:51 »
I suppose if my fellowship meets in my home, like most "churches" in the first century, then there would be a lot more than coffee!  Shoot, we might have a full breakfast, and then have lunch; and then some may stay for dinner.  Communion would be observed in the context of a meal together, instead of a cracker and a sip of grape juice.  And I suppose if some brothers in Christ decided to get together and buy a bigger facility for their fellowship to meet in, they can do whatever they want to do.  And concerning the charging for the coffee, well that may be a good way to support a missionary or build a library or even buy a bus so everyone can ride together and do things.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #12 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:47:39 »
Sounds like the PTA, just baptized.  (not saying that makes it wrong, but that's just my gut reaction to walking in the door and being hounded for money...sounds like compulsion after a while)

Offline janine

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #13 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:51:00 »
I like the idea of it running for the public.  Maybe people who'd never darken the door otherwise would come to meet with a support group sharing their Big Issue,  Tuesday night down at the megachurch Coffee Shop.  Maybe meet some Christians there and be drawn into the family.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #14 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:52:27 »
We've got one, it is a great ministry and great fun for those who work in it. As you can imagine, our church demographic is on the young side.  We've grown so much, our church building is already small again and our brand new building is only a year and a half old. Our church started about 7 years ago with just a handful of people.  Our growth has awed many here, and the glory is always given to God for it.  Four pastors now, actually five if you count the on-campus ministry, still growing.

Awesome! PTL!!!!

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #15 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:53:41 »
So that is what it has come to.  I knew that organized religion was in bad shape, but I didn't know that it had become a coffee shop.  I would go if they had glazed donuts.
That would put you under the "Glazed Donut Law", Robert.........conditional salvation, if you will.

Wouldn't a food sauce like donut glaze come under "condimental salivation" ?

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #16 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:54:42 »
I like the idea of it running for the public.  Maybe people who'd never darken the door otherwise would come to meet with a support group sharing their Big Issue,  Tuesday night down at the megachurch Coffee Shop.  Maybe meet some Christians there and be drawn into the family.

But wouldn't it be even better for that group to go meet at a coffee shop that's already there? It's really a basic question -- do we bring the world into our doors or equip our members to go out into the world?

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #17 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:57:19 »
Imagine their impression if were free instead of $2.  I'd think it would be that much better.  But, I don't have a problem with the shops, per se.  But I think there can be abuses, and I think we're naive not to at least examine as k-pappy has said whether or not it might cross a line. 

This is definitely an area where I've admittedly got a lot of CofC dna going.  The idea of buying and selling as we come together just is hinky down to my bones. 

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 19:58:22 »
I like the idea of it running for the public.  Maybe people who'd never darken the door otherwise would come to meet with a support group sharing their Big Issue,  Tuesday night down at the megachurch Coffee Shop.  Maybe meet some Christians there and be drawn into the family.

But wouldn't it be even better for that group to go meet at a coffee shop that's already there? It's really a basic question -- do we bring the world into our doors or equip our members to go out into the world?
Salt out of the shaker?  What a crazy idea!  ::wink::

k-pappy

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #19 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:04:19 »
I agree with jmg, it would make more sense to offer the coffee and donuts for free.

I do not see how it can be considered a "ministry" to people if you are only providing it to those who can afford it.

In Christ,
KP

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:11:07 »
I like the idea of it running for the public.  Maybe people who'd never darken the door otherwise would come to meet with a support group sharing their Big Issue,  Tuesday night down at the megachurch Coffee Shop.  Maybe meet some Christians there and be drawn into the family.

But wouldn't it be even better for that group to go meet at a coffee shop that's already there? It's really a basic question -- do we bring the world into our doors or equip our members to go out into the world?

Yes, sure, of course, and if the Christians in an area are being Christians as they should, they will be doing things like that.
 
Can your neborhood Starbucks accommodate, say, 300 people, for next week's Bible study?

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:16:49 »
Our preacher is a real coffee nut (me too).  He bought a fully automatic espresso machine and put it in the church building.  We have espresso with class and some folks bring it into the worship service.  There is no charge.  He also buys green coffee beans by 50 and 100 lb sacks.  Has his own roaster a couple in fact.  He roasts the beans for the espresso machine and gives away sacks of fresh roasted coffee beans.  He is just a loveable unusual guy.  Later Johnb

k-pappy

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #22 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:20:48 »
Why do you need 300 people?

I used to go by myself to starbucks, get a cup of coffee and read my Bible.  I did not preach or speak, I just sat there and read.  I was amazed at how many people not only noticed, but asked me questions. Many times it led to conversations about the persons boat, but sometimes it led to theological type discussion (MDR, baptims, etc....kidding!).

That was just one person...can you imagine if 3 or 4 or 8 Christians do that?

In Christ,
KP

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #23 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:27:48 »
Can your neborhood Starbucks accommodate, say, 300 people, for next week's Bible study?

LOL! My "neighborhood Starbucks" is at least 75 miles away, and if we ever had 300 people show up for a Bible study all the leaders would die of shock!

I probably should have just refrained from comment on this thread.
  • I don't go to a mega-church
  • I don't live in an area big enough to support a mega-church
  • I don't like coffee!
::noworries::

It's easy to sit back and criticize people who are trying to come up with innovative ways to address problems that I don't have.
::shrug::

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #24 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:51:42 »
I like the idea of it running for the public.  Maybe people who'd never darken the door otherwise would come to meet with a support group sharing their Big Issue,  Tuesday night down at the megachurch Coffee Shop.  Maybe meet some Christians there and be drawn into the family.

But wouldn't it be even better for that group to go meet at a coffee shop that's already there? It's really a basic question -- do we bring the world into our doors or equip our members to go out into the world?

Yes, sure, of course, and if the Christians in an area are being Christians as they should, they will be doing things like that.
 
Can your neborhood Starbucks accommodate, say, 300 people, for next week's Bible study?
How many coffee shops could 300 people saturate?  I get what you're asking never, but wouldn't spreading out that way be a worthy exercise at some point?  I know of a Catholic Bible study at one of the hamburger/pub joints here, and an evangelical men's study at a local bar.  We've had studies at cafes, coffee shops and what-not, too, from time to time.

marc

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #25 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:52:34 »
From my previous comment, you might guess that I'm not crazy about the idea.  You'd be right.  Now let me tell you what we do, so you can call me a flaming hypocrite.

We bake pumpkin rolls and sell them in a store owned by a couple of our members.  We say the money goes to our youth group rather than our church so the preacher of a 25-person church 30 miles away won't get mad at us (seriously--not my decision, if you couldn't guess).  

At Christmas, we took the money and bought gifts for some area kids who we knew wouldn't be getting anything from their parents.  We also donated some to help pay for the funeral of a couple of teens who used to attend here.

Now, is this different than the Starbucks-in-the-lobby or not?  Are we simply selling to a different target group for a similar reason?  

I can see both why it might be different and why it might not.  

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #26 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 20:57:08 »
It's easy to sit back and criticize people who are trying to come up with innovative ways to address problems that I don't have.
::shrug::
True, but I don't think that discussing what we'd do in a given situation is necessarily criticizing those who've done/are doing it differently.  I wouldn't charge, I just couldn't do it.  But neither when I visited Prestonwood and saw their coffee shop did I think, "Darn heathen."  I'd love to have some of their problems....like 18,000 members in a couple decades.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #27 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:19:10 »
I wonder how often Jesus and the guys met in the local market place? Not every move of Christ was recorded. Can't ya see them walking the market finding the best grape JUICE  ::smile::  standing around and maybe talking about fishing for fish. They could get to talking and draw a crowd.  Sometimes i think our church buildings are of such limited use. 

I bet the market place went wild when ol Lazerith showed up..... that could bust the sales of WINE....

We are the church the building is built by man Christ said He would bulid His church...

Wern't the temple money changers selling offerings? and cheating the public? and make mine a triple moca    thanks

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #28 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:25:50 »
It's easy to sit back and criticize people who are trying to come up with innovative ways to address problems that I don't have.
::shrug::
True, but I don't think that discussing what we'd do in a given situation is necessarily criticizing those who've done/are doing it differently.  I wouldn't charge, I just couldn't do it.  But neither when I visited Prestonwood and saw their coffee shop did I think, "Darn heathen."  I'd love to have some of their problems....like 18,000 members in a couple decades.

Maybe I'm weaker in that area than you. I find it very easy to be critical of situations I find in high population areas, whether it's a church or a community in general.

I left a high pop. area - San Jose, CA - to move to a rural community, pop. 2000, and I don't even live in the city limits. I left a church of over 4,000 [after 3 intentional splits to start new congregations] for a church whose attendance hovers around 150.

I left because I don't like the problems that accompany large groups of people. No matter what they do to make things better, all of those people are still there, so I'm not going to like it.

I doubt I'd think "Darn heathen" either, but I also doubt I'd like it. I guess what I'd do in that situation is move.
 ::disco::

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #29 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:34:48 »
jmg, are ya saying it's the same kinda feeling ya got when guys started wearing bermuda shorts to Wednesday night services?

This made me think about our new baptistry which was built outside the auditorium just off to the side of the "gathering space" accompanied with water features and tropical plants.


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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #30 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:41:08 »
Our preacher is a real coffee nut (me too).  He bought a fully automatic espresso machine and put it in the church building.  We have espresso with class and some folks bring it into the worship service.  There is no charge.  He also buys green coffee beans by 50 and 100 lb sacks.  Has his own roaster a couple in fact.  He roasts the beans for the espresso machine and gives away sacks of fresh roasted coffee beans.  He is just a loveable unusual guy.  Later Johnb

Yummy, although I detest coffee to drink.........I love to smell it!

Offline Big Mike Lewis

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #31 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:42:36 »
I would think it would be better to make free coffee especially for visitors.  I guess it saves on getting to church in time to have a Starbucks at the church...but I have been in those church lines...they take longer than stopping at one on the way.

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #32 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 21:49:59 »
A local church in our area has a Starbucks in it's newly errected building too. I've never been there before, but the old building burned down, and Starbucks contacted them and donated the equipment for the coffee, etc.

I thought that maybe they did that because the reason it burnt down was because their automatic coffee maker is what burnt the building down.

I imagine they give the coffee for free though since they had it donated. I think a donation box may be nice though, and that way they could use the $ for mission projects as was mentioned be someone here a bit ago. And that way, if someone couldn't afford it, they could get it free.


Offline Volkmar

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #33 on: Sat Jan 05, 2008 - 22:56:32 »
K-Pappy axed;

Quote
Is there a line when going to church is like going to the  mall?



Shopping at a Supermall

Excerpt;
Quote
The superstore megachurch trend is just one example of a failed attempt at renewing the church. These event-driven, shopping mall churches have created specialized boutiques for every sociological slice in America today. From single parents, twelve step recoverers, homebuilders, premarital couples, parents-of-adolescents, Generation Xers to working mothers, businessmen, actors, and dancers.




V

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Re: Starbucks in the lobby?
« Reply #34 on: Sun Jan 06, 2008 - 00:26:06 »
To me, not really a problem.

We meet in a YMCA right now, there are machines in the lobby to get drinks or snacks from, but we also bring snacks and coffee, or juice for the congregation after the service.

To me it is just a building anyways.
Small world.  I used to teach Sunday morning Bible study in a church that met in the YMCA.

Attendance doubled when I started bringing donuts and OJ.  Funny thing that.

 

     
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