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Offline xheathen

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test yourself to see if your in the faith
« on: March 23, 2012, 12:37:53 PM »
On another topic I stated that someone had told me that unless I spoke in tongues I was not saved. At one time that might have caused me to worry. But Paul states that you can test yourself to see if Christ is in you.

2 Cor 13:5-8
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you — unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.
NIV

So how do you test yourself to see if Christ is in you?  How do you test others to see if Christ is in them? ( Please note that Paul allows that you could be wrong when testing others)

1 John 3:14-20
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
NIV

1John 3:14 states it quite clearly. We must love our brothers. 1John 3:14 states that if you have the means and don't help a brother in need then you probably fail the test.






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test yourself to see if your in the faith
« on: March 23, 2012, 12:37:53 PM »

Offline fish153

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 01:18:12 PM »
xheathen--

You said:

>>>John 3:14 states it quite clearly. We must love our brothers. 1John 3:14 states that if you have the means and don't help a brother in need then you probably fail the test. <<<

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing". (1 Cor. 13:1-3)

1 Cor. 13 infers one could "help a brother in need", and yet not do it with the true motivation of love.  When 2 Cor. 13:5 is asking to "examine yourselves whether you be in THE FAITH" it is talking about what you believe far more than what you do as the "test".

One can believe false doctrine and do many good works (see the Mormons as an example of this).  They are very good people, and help others constantly---they are sincere---but sincerely wrong.  They are LOST.

If "helping a brother in need" is a test of whether you are in "the faith" or not most Mormons would pass the test, along with JW's, and many religious people.  The question is are we in THE FAITH?  What do we truly believe----what truly motivates us?  Is it works and self-righteousness, or faith which works through love in the Spirit? (1 Corinthians 13).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love". (Gal. 5:6)


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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 01:18:12 PM »

Offline ChristNU

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 01:21:18 PM »
On another topic I stated that someone had told me that unless I spoke in tongues I was not saved. At one time that might have caused me to worry. But Paul states that you can test yourself to see if Christ is in you.

2 Cor 13:5-8
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you — unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.
NIV

So how do you test yourself to see if Christ is in you?  How do you test others to see if Christ is in them? ( Please note that Paul allows that you could be wrong when testing others)

Ummm, the test is right there. Is Christ in you? If not, you have failed the test.


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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 01:21:18 PM »

Offline xheathen

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 02:04:28 PM »
xheathen--

You said:

>>>John 3:14 states it quite clearly. We must love our brothers. 1John 3:14 states that if you have the means and don't help a brother in need then you probably fail the test. <<<

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing". (1 Cor. 13:1-3)

1 Cor. 13 infers one could "help a brother in need", and yet not do it with the true motivation of love.  When 2 Cor. 13:5 is asking to "examine yourselves whether you be in THE FAITH" it is talking about what you believe far more than what you do as the "test".

One can believe false doctrine and do many good works (see the Mormons as an example of this).  They are very good people, and help others constantly---they are sincere---but sincerely wrong.  They are LOST.

If "helping a brother in need" is a test of whether you are in "the faith" or not most Mormons would pass the test, along with JW's, and many religious people.  The question is are we in THE FAITH?  What do we truly believe----what truly motivates us?  Is it works and self-righteousness, or faith which works through love in the Spirit? (1 Corinthians 13).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love". (Gal. 5:6)



I stated that we      must    love     our     brothers.  John stated if we see our brothers in need then how can the love of God be in us. I did not say that helping our brothers was the acid test. Love was the key with helping our brothers as    probably     a good indicator.


To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 02:04:28 PM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline fish153

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »
xheathen--

You said:

>>>John 3:14 states it quite clearly. We must love our brothers. 1John 3:14 states that if you have the means and don't help a brother in need then you probably fail the test. <<<

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing". (1 Cor. 13:1-3)

1 Cor. 13 infers one could "help a brother in need", and yet not do it with the true motivation of love.  When 2 Cor. 13:5 is asking to "examine yourselves whether you be in THE FAITH" it is talking about what you believe far more than what you do as the "test".

One can believe false doctrine and do many good works (see the Mormons as an example of this).  They are very good people, and help others constantly---they are sincere---but sincerely wrong.  They are LOST.

If "helping a brother in need" is a test of whether you are in "the faith" or not most Mormons would pass the test, along with JW's, and many religious people.  The question is are we in THE FAITH?  What do we truly believe----what truly motivates us?  Is it works and self-righteousness, or faith which works through love in the Spirit? (1 Corinthians 13).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love". (Gal. 5:6)



I stated that we      must    love     our     brothers.  John stated if we see our brothers in need then how can the love of God be in us. I did not say that helping our brothers was the acid test. Love was the key with helping our brothers as    probably     a good indicator.


To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

x---

Thanks for the explanation.  ::smile::

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »



Offline xheathen

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 05:32:21 AM »
xheathen--

You said:

>>>John 3:14 states it quite clearly. We must love our brothers. 1John 3:14 states that if you have the means and don't help a brother in need then you probably fail the test. <<<

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing". (1 Cor. 13:1-3)

1 Cor. 13 infers one could "help a brother in need", and yet not do it with the true motivation of love.  When 2 Cor. 13:5 is asking to "examine yourselves whether you be in THE FAITH" it is talking about what you believe far more than what you do as the "test".

One can believe false doctrine and do many good works (see the Mormons as an example of this).  They are very good people, and help others constantly---they are sincere---but sincerely wrong.  They are LOST.

If "helping a brother in need" is a test of whether you are in "the faith" or not most Mormons would pass the test, along with JW's, and many religious people.  The question is are we in THE FAITH?  What do we truly believe----what truly motivates us?  Is it works and self-righteousness, or faith which works through love in the Spirit? (1 Corinthians 13).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love". (Gal. 5:6)



I stated that we      must    love     our     brothers.  John stated if we see our brothers in need then how can the love of God be in us. I did not say that helping our brothers was the acid test. Love was the key with helping our brothers as    probably     a good indicator.


To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

x---

Thanks for the explanation.  ::smile::

Thank you. If you misunderstood then others could have misunderstood also. Its better to clarify than leave a misunderstanding.

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 05:32:21 AM »

Offline ChristNU

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 06:05:12 AM »
To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

The indwelling of Christ within the Christian is the proof that we are in the faith. If upon examination you discover that Christ is not in you, you have failed the test and are not in the faith.


Offline ChristNU

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 06:54:18 AM »
To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

The indwelling of Christ within the Christian is the proof that we are in the faith. If upon examination you discover that Christ is not in you, you have failed the test and are not in the faith.



What test do you give yourself that verifies that Christ is dwelling in you?

Examine yourself. Do you not recognize that Christ is in you? If He is, you will recognize it. If you do not recognize it, then He is not.




Offline ChristNU

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 07:07:52 AM »
To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

The indwelling of Christ within the Christian is the proof that we are in the faith. If upon examination you discover that Christ is not in you, you have failed the test and are not in the faith.



What test do you give yourself that verifies that Christ is dwelling in you?

Examine yourself. Do you not recognize that Christ is in you? If He is, you will recognize it. If you do not recognize it, then He is not.


How do you recognize that Christ is in you?  What does he look like in you?

Does not the Spirit bear witness with our own spirit? Do you suppose those who are indwelt by the living Christ will not recognize it?

That is the test I use for all, including myself. And it is surprising how many, when asked if they recognize that Christ lives in them, fail the test.




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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 07:07:52 AM »

Offline xheathen

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 02:25:34 PM »
To ChristNU

Paul said that don't you realize that Christ is in you unless you fail the test. If you knew that Christ was in you then why would Paul say test yourself to see if your in the faith? You are in the faith if Christ is in you so there would be no reason to test.

The indwelling of Christ within the Christian is the proof that we are in the faith. If upon examination you discover that Christ is not in you, you have failed the test and are not in the faith.



What test do you give yourself that verifies that Christ is dwelling in you?

Examine yourself. Do you not recognize that Christ is in you? If He is, you will recognize it. If you do not recognize it, then He is not.


How do you recognize that Christ is in you?  What does he look like in you?

Does not the Spirit bear witness with our own spirit? Do you suppose those who are indwelt by the living Christ will not recognize it?

That is the test I use for all, including myself. And it is surprising how many, when asked if they recognize that Christ lives in them, fail the test.





You seem to have quotes that I do not see on this topic.

Apparently people can fool themselves and believe that the spirit is within them. If you go to the topic A warning for Christian's on this board. Go to the site and watch the dvd about the pastor barred from heaven. You can watch the entire DVD or go to about 1hr 24min. He says that Jesus told him that the most grievous sin was His people have rejected the Spirit and created their own experiences and call it the Spirit. The pastor thought he had the Spirit but it was only his created experiences. Or maybe he still has the Spirit and just thinks he lost it.

I'm not saying that John's test is not infallible. But its less subject  to ones own emotions and feelings.

Matt 7:21-23

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
NIV

I'm sure that most if not all of the evildoers above could have passed your test.

Matt 7:24-27

24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
NIV

John's test is a test of someone practicing what Jesus taught. He chose a test of Love and love fulfills the law.

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 02:25:34 PM »

Offline Glorious

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 09:01:31 PM »
2 Cor. 13:6  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1.  The Christ is the Anointed One; He has knowledge of all things. A reprobate is one who does not retain the knowledge of Christ - see Romans 1:28.

2.  The knowledge of Christ/God comes by the life of Christ.

3.  The life of Christ comes by the power of Christ.

4.  The power of Christ raises the dead and gives life; it is by the gospel.

Whosoever has all the emboldened things listed above has Christ in himself or herself; s/he is in the faith of Christ.


Examining to prove if in the faith of Christ/God

a.  We test for knowledge of the truth of Christ/God by the godliness we have obtained.

b.  We test for the life of Christ/God by the peace we have obtained.

c.  We test for the power of Christ/God by the gospel we have obtained.

Offline xheathen

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 07:26:13 AM »
2 Cor. 13:6  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1.  The Christ is the Anointed One; He has knowledge of all things. A reprobate is one who does not retain the knowledge of Christ - see Romans 1:28.

2.  The knowledge of Christ/God comes by the life of Christ.

3.  The life of Christ comes by the power of Christ.

4.  The power of Christ raises the dead and gives life; it is by the gospel.

Whosoever has all the emboldened things listed above has Christ in himself or herself; s/he is in the faith of Christ.


Examining to prove if in the faith of Christ/God

a.  We test for knowledge of the truth of Christ/God by the godliness we have obtained.

b.  We test for the life of Christ/God by the peace we have obtained.

c.  We test for the power of Christ/God by the gospel we have obtained.

It very well could be as you say. Your test could be the ultimate test. Paul indicated that this test could also be applied to him.

2 Cor 13:6-8
6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.
NIV

So in your answer I can agree with your “a

Offline ChristNU

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 07:26:55 AM »
Matt 7:21-23

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
NIV

I'm sure that most if not all of the evildoers above could have passed your test.

If Christ can say He never knew them, then obviously they could never have passed the test.

Quote
Matt 7:24-27

24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
NIV

John's test is a test of someone practicing what Jesus taught. He chose a test of Love and love fulfills the law.

If you love it is because you are indwelt by the God of Love and He is loving others through you.

Do you not know that Jesus Christ is in you?



Offline Glorious

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Re: test yourself to see if your in the faith
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 10:00:49 AM »

So in your answer I can agree with your “a
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 10:13:33 AM by Glorious »

Offline xheathen

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