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Offline Reformer

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“That They May All Be One”
« on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 20:36:37 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
________________________
 
“That They May All Be One”

[Unity In Diversity Or Conformity?]

“The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be united even as we are united.”—Jesus, John 17:20-22.
 
     The early Christian believers had their differences, yet were united overall. It is my sentiment the only unity possible among believers is unity in diversity. Even apostles Paul and Peter were united, although they had an occasional difference. Paul took issue with the apostle Peter, and stated, “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to the face, because he was clearly in the wrong” [Gal. 2:11]. Peter had discriminated against the Gentile believers.
 
    Romans, chapter 14, is an excellent reading on unity in diversity, for it portrays the weak vs. the strong. In our current Christian culture, we find some who are weak in the faith, doctrinally and behaviorally, while others are mature in the faith. Paul told the strong and more knowledgeable believers in the faith, “Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own Lord that he stands or falls” [verses 1-4].
 
    Paul says in another place that believers are to live “in harmony with one another” and “welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you” [15:5-7]. My point is that harmony and unity can and should prevail even when diverse and miscellaneous views are prevalent.
 
    We have no biblical right to contend that all doctrinal conceptions and/or theories of others conform to ours—or that our sundry doctrinal conceptions be adopted by others. Our Lord was a strong advocator of unity, as depicted in the passages above. But in our current religious culture, disunity is the byword. Sad—yes, sad indeed.
 
    However, should I insist you adopt my assorted doctrinal conceptions, I have, at that point, become divisive. Paul says to “avoid foolish controversies” and if a brother “stirs up division,” becomes divisive, “warm him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:9-11]
 
    Unity in conformity is not the solution to our divided dilemma. However, as a means of clarification, a divisive brother may be excommunicated or withdrawn from—as per Paul in the Titus admonition above. A divisive brother fosters disunity and advocates disharmony in the body of believers. 
 
    Closing NoteAn honest and upright believer who acknowledges God as his only creator and His Son as his only source of salvation, but embraces some questionable beliefs, is to be accepted as part of the one body of believers. If we try to deny him brotherly acceptance, we will have placed ourselves in an identical predicament because we, too, possess some questionable beliefs!
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 20:47:41 by Reformer »

Offline johntwayne

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #1 on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 21:59:39 »
Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree, and there be no divisions among you, but you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.  (1Co 1:10)

Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #2 on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 22:47:52 »

An excellent passage of scripture, johntwayne. Thank you.

Buff

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #2 on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 22:47:52 »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 05:00:52 »
The oneness of all believers is when THEY ( The church ) SHOW UP  to be with THEM  ( Father , Son , Holy Spirit) in  the spirit, IN HIS HEAVEN ...HIS HOLY PLACE.

I NEVER KNEW YOU .....DEPART FROM MY PRESENCE.

The SAME PLACE . Jesus taught , SHOWED . the disciples on earth HOW TO GO ...how to go there. How to ascend the hill of the Lord


It’s not on earth,  but in heaven we are made one..... one in him ....in them .

out side of him we will fight like cats and dogs. Smile at each other and say hello



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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 05:00:52 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 05:11:36 »
You have to understand how amazing his love is towards us.....


He is inviting us into HIS HOLY SPACE to be with him

That’s a special place . I have no words to describe it. He’s letting us in to his sanctuary. Into him , himself. His garden His heart

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 05:11:36 »



Offline DaveW

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 06:31:05 »
Buff, which Hebrew/Aramaic word do you think our Lord used in his John 17 prayer - echad or yachad

I believe it is echad, which is the same unity/oneness of the godhead:

Deut 6.4
Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
[echad]

Echad is also used in Genesis where it says that husband and wife are one [echad] flesh.  So it is clearly NOT an absolute singularity.  That would be yachad.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 06:31:05 »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #6 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 07:49:55 »
Reformer and johntwayne,

What is asked of one seeking baptism?  Division appears to come from moving the goal posts.


Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #7 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 15:06:57 »
DaveW:

    "Buff, which Hebrew/Aramaic word do you think our Lord used in his John 17 prayer - 'echad' or 'yachad'? I believe it is 'echad,' which is the same unity/oneness of the godhead.

    "Deut 6.4: 'Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one' [echad]. 'Echad' is also used in Genesis where it says that husband and wife are one ['echad'] flesh. So it is clearly NOT an absolute singularity. That would be 'yachad.' "


    The Lord seemed to have used echâd, which pertains to unity or divine harmony. John 17:21 is a prayer for the unity of the saints, believers. The Lord had shown that the union between Himself and His Father should also be the same unification between believers. Unity between believers, as you noted, is not an "absolute singularity," but an association blended with harmony between those of the same cause.

    We can and do disagree on a diversity of incidental matters but still be united. Paul and Peter disagreed, yet they were united in the same cause—faith. We all must be united by faith, the writer of Hebrews says [Heb. 4:2].

Kindly,

Buff

Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 15:12:37 »

Mere Nick:

    I'm not certain what you mean by your question, "What is asked of one seeking baptism?" Please clarify it for me.

Thanks,

Buff


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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 15:12:37 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #9 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 19:51:22 »

Bemark:

    "It’s not on earth [unity], but in heaven we are made one.....one in him....in them. Out side of him we will fight like cats and dogs. Smile at each other and say hello."

    My brother, if we cannot achieve unity on earth, Jesus' prayer in John 17 is meaningless and His plea is useless. I cannot buy that.

But Thanks, Anyway,

Buff

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #10 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 02:22:14 »
Bemark:

    "It’s not on earth [unity], but in heaven we are made one.....one in him....in them. Out side of him we will fight like cats and dogs. Smile at each other and say hello."

    My brother, if we cannot achieve unity on earth, Jesus' prayer in John 17 is meaningless and His plea is useless. I cannot buy that.

But Thanks, Anyway,

Buff

well we shall be known for the love for one another. It’s his word right......that we have not seen and struggle with trying to manufacture in the flesh....with good sermons and acts of kindness . So not even really caring ....as it’s a duty. I get the badge, passed that test. Never really in us....sum have a gift of kindness , a Shepard’s heart. Not speaking against you. Just saying the truth that abides even within myself. Not the Love of God for all mankind.I pull back by what,  who I see

There will be a day when he becomes more than we are. There are sum who can and do meet with him in the spirit. In this place where he is king of heaven , you bow to his will. You repent , you bow because of HIS GLORY....Your hatred and thoughts are open , you can’t hide from him. He passes through you.....can you pass though him? Seek him with all your heart soul strength and mind.

You choose to let go of things because you would rather be with him.

There is a day that is coming,  that the word of GOD will come true. It’s not yet here. But his word will not fail

We shall be known for the LOVE that we have for each other.

That’s when OUR FATHER in heaven comes down. We can’t do it in our might our strength and nor even our even desire. We sting back when we are hurt.

He’s going to pop the cork on that bottle of wine. It’s going to be him and only him .

When the POWER of the GOD HEAD SHOWS UP.

Finally we get the prayers of the saints of old with the prayers of saints on earth today,  seeing now , the WILL of the FATHER on earth as it is in heaven.

He is going to blast his church , his body with power........ that we have never  known

God is LOVE

The greatest gift is saved up for last. Poured  out upon his body.

« Last Edit: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 02:28:35 by Bemark »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #11 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 02:31:53 »
He saves the best wine for last

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #12 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 02:32:46 »
The love of many will grow cold

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #13 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 02:38:28 »
You see his wisdom

Let there be light . In the beginning and in the end

Let there be light

The kingdom that comes upon will shine all around us igniting the Kingdom within

We have been fishing all night. The day of the LORD is near. His day

Offline DaveW

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #14 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 05:14:57 »
My brother, if we cannot achieve unity on earth, Jesus' prayer in John 17 is meaningless and His plea is useless. I cannot buy that.

But Thanks, Anyway,
Eph 4:1
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
....
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #15 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 11:08:47 »
Reformer, you posted:

Quote
Mere Nick:

    I'm not certain what you mean by your question, "What is asked of one seeking baptism?" Please clarify it for me.

Thanks,

Buff

Every baptism I've seen the one seeking baptism is asked if they believe Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God.  On that confessed belief, one is baptized and becomes a member of the church.  It appears to me a major problem when we demand more of others later on under the threat of shunning, disfellowship, treated as defective, or whatever.  That strikes me as a bait and switch, a moving of the goalposts.  It appears that one should only be bound by what the scriptures say as you learn them and never by what someone else tells you. 

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #16 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 13:48:39 »
In the Only Rent Christians Only group I am part of there is none of the shunning.

And yes, we don't own an edifice, or building.  We rent.

Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #17 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 14:34:00 »

Mere Nick:

Your reply in Post #15 is sufficiently explained. Thank you.

Kindly,

Buff

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #18 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 19:53:09 »
Every baptism I've seen the one seeking baptism is asked if they believe Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God.  On that confessed belief, one is baptized and becomes a member of the church.  It appears to me a major problem when we demand more of others later on under the threat of shunning, disfellowship, treated as defective, or whatever.  That strikes me as a bait and switch, a moving of the goalposts.  It appears that one should only be bound by what the scriptures say as you learn them and never by what someone else tells you.
Yet the church did not allow baptism for converts immediately even very early in its history, instead making them go through a vetting process as proselytes first.

Source: the Didache, written in the 1st - 3nd centuries AD.

Offline Reformer

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #19 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 21:40:59 »

Jarrod:

    As to your #18 Post, apostasy brought this about—an apostasy the apostle Paul foretold. That apostasy is still current.

Kindly,

Buff

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #20 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 21:45:36 »
Jarrod:

    As to your #18 Post, apostasy brought this about—an apostasy the apostle Paul foretold. That apostasy is still current.

Kindly,

Buff
Not apostasy, no.  It was necessary due to the "grievous wolves" infiltrating the flock, as Jude writes about.

Nor was this in contradiction of the commands Christ left behind.  He specifically empowered the church to "make disciples, baptizing...and teaching."

Jarrod

Offline 4WD

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #21 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 03:40:06 »
Nor was this in contradiction of the commands Christ left behind.  He specifically empowered the church to "make disciples, baptizing...and teaching."
Jesus didn't say to baptize and teach the disciples; rather baptizing and teaching was how He said they were to make disciples of all nations, i.e., the people of all nations. In other words, baptizing and teaching was the process for making disciples, not what was done to disciples.

Offline RB

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #22 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 05:00:43 »
On that confessed belief, one is baptized and becomes a member of the church.
Not sure where you get that teaching, for you certainly did not get it from the scriptures themselves~most likely from the "church" you are part of, it must be one of "their" doctrines.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 8:35-40~"Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."
This portion of scriptures reveals a few truths to us about water baptism, the believer, and the church of God/Christ.

Philip meets a great eunuch of Ethiopia prepared by the Holy Ghost for conversion (Acts 8:26-34).

The Lord directs Philip to the desert, which direction we need for godly conversions. This man was an important government official, but he was a black, castrated Gentile.

The eunuch had been worshipping in Jerusalem as a proselyte of the Jews’ religion. While in Jerusalem, he secured a copy of part of the Old Testament and read Isaiah.

With Divine prompting, Philip joins himself to this man’s chariot prepared by God. The Lord had taken care of details, he was reading Isaiah 53 without understanding.

With the heart of a righteous man, the eunuch desires Philip to teach him the Scripture.

The Lord set Philip up perfectly. The eunuch wanted to know the Subject of Isaiah 53. Philip preaches Christ Jesus to the noble eunuch and baptizes him in the desert (Acts 8:35-38).

What a passage to preach Christ Jesus! The Lord had prepared the eunuch perfectly. After hearing about baptism, the eunuch spies some water and seeks his own baptism.

When God is in the matter, you will not need to use natural means to push conversion. The eunuch asks a perfect question about baptism~what is the necessary condition?

Baby-sprinkling heretics wish there was no answer to this important question. So they deleted Acts 8:37 from most every version of the Bible but the KJV.

Baptists and a few others hold to “believers’ baptism” because of this and other similar verses.

Baptism is the answer of a good conscience (Ist Peter 3:21), which rejects babies. The eunuch also chose water deep enough to baptize Scripturally~ by immersion. As John baptized in Aenon for the much water there (John 3:23), so Philip.

Both Philip and the eunuch had to go down into the water for a godly baptism. Both Philip and the eunuch had to come up out of the water after the baptism. In this important passage, we condemn infant baptism and any mode but immersion. The eunuch, having obeyed Jesus Christ, goes on his way to Ethiopia rejoicing.

Is there something missing? Not one thing is mention about JOINING A CHURCH, either back in Jerusalem or in his own country. So we must conclude baptism and "joining" a church are not one and the same event or even connected, or more than that~there is NO SUCH DOCTRINE of joining a church in the sense in which it is taught in our day.

Joining OUR PRESENCE with other believers so that we come and go out among them we WOULD AGREE~and this fellowship we should not forsake, but other than this, there is no such doctrine taught in the word of God.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 9:26-28~"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem."
Church memberships as it is taught in our day is a doctrine of men.
Quote from: Paul
Colossians 4:9~"With Onesimus, a faithful and beloved brother, who is one of you. They shall make known unto you all things which are done here."
Disciples DID go in and out among believers in their cities, towns, etc.

But their baptism was strictly between them and God which only needed a person of the faith/religion of JESUS CHRIST doing the baptism~which religion we are baptized INTO by another believer.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 9:10~"And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."
Ananias baptized one of the greatest disciples ever in baptizing the apostle Paul would was nothing more than a disciple himself. So much for needing an ordained minister doing the baptism!

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #23 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 05:03:03 »
They opened up there spiritual connection that they had WITH the Father ...then there spiritual connection they had WITH the  Son ......then there spiritual connection WITH the Holy Spirit .

They baptised , released each of the Godhead ,  upon a new believer by a spiritual release. They released the kingdom of heaven .

They ascended into them , then released them one at a time , around the person so a heavenly gate would open above them. In hope they would enter.

Then they taught them in word also the  pathways of God. The way they should walk.

Now you have been given a right to become a son



Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #24 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 05:06:48 »
YOU lay hands upon the sick

YOU baptise

You can’t give what you haven’t got.

You have to spend time with him to get it. Spend time with them

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #25 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 05:08:10 »
In his name

Offline 4WD

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #26 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 05:40:50 »
Is there something missing? Not one thing is mention about JOINING A CHURCH, either back in Jerusalem or in his own country. So we must conclude baptism and "joining" a church are not one and the same event or even connected, or more than that~there is NO SUCH DOCTRINE of joining a church in the sense in which it is taught in our day.
Not joining a church; rather joining THE church, the church that Jesus built, the body of believers.  When one's sins are forgiven and he receives the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit, one passes from being a sinner to being a saint, i.e., becoming "a member" of Jesus' church, the church He built.  So then, yes, baptism and "joining" THE church are indeed one and the same event.  At that point he becomes one of God's elect.

Offline RB

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #27 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 06:11:10 »
Not joining a church; rather joining THE church, the church that Jesus built, the body of believers.  When one's sins are forgiven and he receives the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit, one passes from being a sinner to being a saint, i.e., becoming "a member" of Jesus' church, the church He built.  So then, yes, baptism and "joining" THE church are indeed one and the same event.  At that point he becomes one of God's elect.
There are a few problems a person must deal with who embraces this teaching you are laboring to espoused as a truth of the scriptures.

Problem number one~Jesus clearly said that the church is built upon God's grace of freely giving the power to believe~proving that man has no part in becoming part of the church being built by God's grace through the redemption that is in his Son Jesus Christ.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 16:13-18~"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
THE ROCK is the divine revelation given to the elect freely by God's grace that they may KNOW the truth concerning Jesus Christ. The church~or called out ones is NOT built by water baptism but upon the foundation stone that Jesus Christ was sent from heaven to be sins for us, that we would be made the righteousness of God through him and this truth only comes to us by God quickening us~making us alive to see, hear, and understand the blessed truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. From Abel, to Noah, to Abraham, to David, to Peter~ they ALL have come to believe by the SAME operation of the Holy Spirit opening their hearts and causing them to believe, see, and understand.

You and others truly believe that you and others HAVE THE POWER to reveal the truth concerning Jesus Christ to a sinner~yet Jesus clearly said:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee
WE must follow the scriptures and teach that ONLY the Father can reveal the gospel unto a sinner who is dead in his sins, and has NO power to deliver himself, not can we deliver him, once delivered then we CAN show him how and why he was delivered~but NOT until then. Not even did Jesus AS A MAN could deliver a sinner. Selah

Maybe more later.

Offline 4WD

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #28 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 08:27:00 »

Problem number one~Jesus clearly said that the church is built upon God's grace of freely giving the power to believe~proving that man has no part in becoming part of the church being built by God's grace through the redemption that is in his Son Jesus Christ. THE ROCK is the divine revelation given to the elect freely by God's grace that they may KNOW the truth concerning Jesus Christ.
No, the rock is NOT the divine revelation; the rock is Jesus, Himself, the Son of the living God being the Christ.

And there is nothing there about God giving the power to believe to anyone. The revelation given to Peter is that Jesus is the Christ.  And there is nothing in that passage about that revelation being given to anyone else.
Quote from: RB
The church~or called out ones is NOT built by water baptism but upon the foundation stone that Jesus Christ was sent from heaven to be sins for us, that we would be made the righteousness of God through him and this truth only comes to us by God quickening us~making us alive to see, hear, and understand the blessed truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. From Abel, to Noah, to Abraham, to David, to Peter~ they ALL have come to believe by the SAME operation of the Holy Spirit opening their hearts and causing them to believe, see, and understand.
But you are not Abel, Noah, Abraham, David or Peter.  You did not come to believe by divine inspiration.  You came to believe by the witness given through the written word of God.  That is the divine inspiration by the Holy Spirit. And it is that by which you have heard the word of God [or the word about Christ] and have believed (Rom 10). 
Quote from: RB
You and others truly believe that you and others HAVE THE POWER to reveal the truth concerning Jesus Christ to a sinner
Yes of course.  That is the whole point of Romans 10:5-21.  Paul, in fact, ends that passage quoting Isaiah with the words "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people." (v.21)
Quote from: RB[size=10pt
~yet Jesus clearly said: WE must follow the scriptures and teach that ONLY the Father can reveal the gospel unto a sinner who is dead in his sins, and has NO power to deliver himself, not can we deliver him, once delivered then we CAN show him how and why he was delivered~but NOT until then. Not even did Jesus AS A MAN could deliver a sinner. Selah[/size]
Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that. That is false man-made doctrine.  The passage in Romans 10 clearly teaches otherwise.

Offline Jaime

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #29 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 10:57:28 »
I guess the Great Commission was actually the Great Redundancy! God really meant to  just zap everyone, instead of people going into all the world making disciples by teaching and baptising them.

Everyone agrees the water is spiritually inert. GOD does whatever is done in baptism. Man is the RECIPIENT OF God’s work in baptism. Can we put THAT to bed?
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 12:47:51 by Jaime »

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #30 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 15:59:05 »
I guess the Great Commission was actually the Great Redundancy! God really meant to  just zap everyone, instead of people going into all the world making disciples by teaching and baptising them.

Everyone agrees the water is spiritually inert. GOD does whatever is done in baptism. Man is the RECIPIENT OF God’s work in baptism. Can we put THAT to bed?

Faith > Baptism.   ::eatingpopcorn:   ::disco:: ::tippinghat:: ::whistle:: ::pondering::

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #31 on: Sun Sep 19, 2021 - 18:30:21 »
What gets me on these discussions is that I can not see why baptism is so heavily debated. It is just as plain cut spelled out in the new testament as faith. If one was to read all the scripture references on baptism as we do faith we could not but see the importance of baptism as of what is is for and accomplished and how it is done just like we can not mistake what the word teaches on faith. These two topics is very heavily dealt with in Gods word and is clearly spelled out if we take to the word with out our blinders on.

I agree there are many other topics we can argue over that is not as clear cut but these two are not of them they are clearly spelled out we just have to study what each topic is really saying and do it with a heart of learning not teaching other what we think we know cause if we go strictly by what is written there could be no confusion.

Sorry for the interruption just my two cents worth now I am dead broke so carry one.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #32 on: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 14:20:40 »
yogi bear:

    I appreciate your remarks above on the subject of "baptism." When a person of faith is immersed in water, as Jesus and His apostles instructed, he/she is confirming—not finalizing but confirming—his/her change of direction.

    That person is then on their pilgrimage to paradise or heaven, where sorrow is no more and death is not known—eternal life in the paradise of God!

Kindly,

Buff

Offline Jaime

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #33 on: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 16:07:24 »
Baptism is a more than a confirmation Buff. Per 1 Peter 3:21, it is the calling upon the Lord (or an appeal to the Lord), as Paul did in Acts 22 per Ananias' instructions to Paul.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 16:14:24 by Jaime »

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #34 on: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 18:25:53 »
Buff as I said let the scriptures do the talking because they teach beyond any doubt what baptism is and does. Just take the word for what it says. Teach it as it is recorded and there is no room for conflict.

 

     
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