Author Topic: “That They May All Be One”  (Read 1195 times)

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Online RB

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #35 on: Wed Sep 22, 2021 - 04:38:24 »
No, the rock is NOT the divine revelation; the rock is Jesus, Himself, the Son of the living God being the Christ.
Jesus is indeed the chief cornerstone of God's spiritual temple, but that's not the truth being taught in Matthew 16, not even close. The context will drive the correct interpretation of what is being discussed.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Matthew 16:13-19~"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
If we follow the discussion carefully it should be very clear as to what the "rock" is in this teaching session by our Lord. BEFORE one can believe that Jesus is the Christ, his heart MUST BE OPEN to see and understand this truth, just as Christ said to Peter:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
"for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
MEANING, that those who said that Jesus was John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Elijah, or one of the Old Testament prophets, God had NOT revealed to them that Jesus was the Christ! Your position contradicts what Jesus is saying and you using Romans 10 to support your position only proves that you are not understanding Romans 10 and Paul's teaching there, which we have shown two to three times before those scriptures are speaking about THOSE WHO FEAR GOD, yet ignorant of God's righteousness, and were going about to establish their own righteousness, did not submit themselves unto the righteousness of God.

The method of submitting was CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE and calling on the name of the Lord Jesus and they would be saved from THAT ignorance.

It is very clear that those in Romans 10:1,2 are regenerate children of God IN ERROR~for even Paul TESTIFY of their zeal and fear of God which NO sinner unregenerate can and does have.

We have the same children of God here on this forum that needs salvation from their ignorance of the means of God imputing righteousness to the sinner without works of the flesh! Selah.

Online 4WD

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #36 on: Wed Sep 22, 2021 - 07:42:37 »
RB, There are two major interpretations as to the identity of the "rock" upon which Christ built His Church.  One is the interpretation held mainly by the RCC that Peter is the rock.  The other is the interpretation held by most of the rest of Christendom that the rock is Jesus, Himself, who according to Peter's answer, is the "Christ, the Son of the living God".  I have never ever heard of the interpretation that you just presented.  It makes no sense whatsoever. 

The term rock is used throughout the Bible.  It carries two meanings.  The first is the ordinary meaning of a composition of mineral matter; the second refers to the LORD.  See, for example, Deuteronomy 32:3-4 which speaking about God says, "The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he."  Similarly the other  references such as Deuteronomy 32:15,18,30,31; 2 Sam 22:32,47; 23:3; Psa 18:2,31,46; 28:1; 31:2,3; 42:9; 61:2; 62:2,6,7 and on and on and on.

There can be no question that the rock and the cornerstone of the church are one and the same and nothing other than the truth of Peter's declaration that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God.  The rock is Jesus.  He is the rock of our salvation. 

And that is, indeed, the truth being taught in Matthew 16.

RB, it never ceases to amaze me how far beyond a reasonable interpretation of Scripture you will go to bend, twist and distort it to your false soteriology.  Matthew 16 and Roman 10 are but two.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #37 on: Wed Sep 22, 2021 - 07:49:30 »
We have the same children of God here on this forum that needs salvation from their ignorance of the means of God imputing righteousness to the sinner without works of the flesh! Selah.
RB, we are not saved from our ignorance.  We are saved from our sins.  And God be praised for that. 

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #37 on: Wed Sep 22, 2021 - 07:49:30 »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #38 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 00:53:51 »
Baptism.....pours out. He pours himself upon you.

The water baptism is a legal requirement , did not Jesus say this.

The baptism of the kingdom that comes upon is given to

Many are called but few are chosen.

The chosen ones are told and are obedient to go INTO THE UPPER ROOM AND TARRY.

The upper room is not on earth . It’s seeking him with all your heart soul strength and mind.

The problem when someone baptises you today we have word and no power....no encounter.

The baptisers have never spent time with the son spirit nor father. IN HIS KINGDOM

You have to go THERE.     You have to ascend

John 17

You can’t bring down heaven by being on earth

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #38 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 00:53:51 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #39 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:04:25 »
I am trying to understand what people are saying..

Maybe I have not understand some things.

The Baptism what I am going on is not about being saved. Ticking the boxes, enter the pearly gates.

It’s about releasing his kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. Once u are saved. Once saved there is a baptism that opens up heaven to believers....who are saved ....we who are saved have been given right to become sons of God. Changed from glory to glory. I’m speaking to believers .....as we are on this board.

That’s why believers had to tarry to receive the kingdom that comes upon.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #39 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:04:25 »



Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #40 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:07:08 »
Baptism.....pours out. He pours himself upon you.

The water baptism is a legal requirement

The baptism of the kingdom that comes upon is offered to us who believe. We have to be taught this. Like then12 did with Jesus

Many are called but few are chosen.

The chosen ones are told and are obedient to go INTO THE UPPER ROOM AND TARRY.

The upper room is not on earth . It’s seeking him with all your heart soul strength and mind.

The problem when someone baptises you today we have word and no power....no encounter.

The baptisers have never spent time with the son spirit nor father. IN HIS KINGDOM

You have to go THERE.     You have to ascend

John 17

You can’t bring down heaven by being on earth

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #40 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:07:08 »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #41 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:23:43 »
Sorry about the above post .....yes RB my fingers to the work. But i haven’t a clue how to do it or get it right. To correct it ...Sorry all.

Ok New King James Version
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Look as what I have been saying

Not a condition of salvation. One in us

One in us. One in us one in us
Baptised in the name of the Father Son Holy Spirit

What am I saying.

As dads grandads mums grand-moms

Spiritual leaders who have been placed

You can’t release what you haven’t got. Natural biblical spiritual doors that you haven’t got.

We have been talking and about God , father son HolySpirit .  But never really understood them nor have had a relationship with each of them.

That they( us)  may be one in them. (Father Son Holy Spirit) Made 1 together . Thats after you are saved....to get to know them all

I can’t explain myself in my words  , I have tried to do my best .
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 01:31:03 by Bemark »

Online RB

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #42 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 04:10:30 »
RB, we are not saved from our ignorance.  We are saved from our sins.  And God be praised for that.
Brother, I 100% agree that we are saved from our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ, or, by his death and resurrection. The Spirit of God is the author of THIS salvation, that is a once and for all salvation~yet it is BY THE GOSPEL we experience many practical salvations during our lifetime as we journey through this world unto our eternal home prepared by God for us. We GROW in grace AND knowledge of the truth, which truth is never perfected in our life.

Do you believe every Christian is on the same level of understanding? Of course not, and we both know that to be true, so there is a practical salvation we all experience from our first coming to Christ until now, and trust it will continue to be many more. You want to limit this to our sanctification, okay, no problem, but still we MUST experience GROWTH AND UNDERSTANDING to make progress in our practical sanctification through the hearing of the word of God. There's sanctification we have in Jesus Christ that is perfect, one that needs no growth, etc.
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 1:30,31~"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
As you said:
Quote from: 4WD on: Yesterday at 07:49:30
And God be praised for that.
All of God's children said AMEN and AMEN. 
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 04:16:26 by RB »

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #43 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 04:19:44 »
Sorry about the above post .....yes RB my fingers to the work. But i haven’t a clue how to do it or get it right. To correct it ...Sorry all.

Ok New King James Version
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Look as what I have been saying

Not a condition of salvation. One in us

One in us. One in us one in us
Baptised in the name of the Father Son Holy Spirit

What am I saying.

As dads grandads mums grand-moms

Spiritual leaders who have been placed

You can’t release what you haven’t got. Natural biblical spiritual doors that you haven’t got.

We have been talking and about God , father son HolySpirit .  But never really understood them nor have had a relationship with each of them.

That they( us)  may be one in them. (Father Son Holy Spirit) Made 1 together . Thats after you are saved....to get to know them all

I can’t explain myself in my words  , I have tried to do my best .
Thank you, brother Mark, I got your overall message of what you are saying. Did you just get off work after a 12 hour day again? Get some sleep brother. My mind does not work as good with little sleep, and truly no ones does. I get myself confuse with little sleep.  I post early in the morning for a reason, very seldom late in the afternoon do I post,  ::smile::
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 04:27:47 by RB »

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #43 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 04:19:44 »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #44 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 07:28:58 »
Thank you, brother Mark, I got your overall message of what you are saying. Did you just get off work after a 12 hour day again? Get some sleep brother. My mind does not work as good with little sleep, and truly no ones does. I get myself confuse with little sleep.  I post early in the morning for a reason, very seldom late in the afternoon do I post,  ::smile::
yes I’m doing 12 hours for a few months as we don’t have manpower to cover it. Yes I am tired

You get what I am saying . To a point. That’s good as well. I know what works in the spirit realm . What also dose not work. Most post with Bible a b c . They don’t understand . They preach but don’t understand how to open the gate in heaven. How Jesus was , and is. Upon earth as he is in heaven. He showed us the way. He is the door. We find this so hard to understand? We study in word...never understanding spirit . As in connection. one struggles with , if I had a encounter with God ..really maybe you did

Imagine this. Because it’s like this

You are in worship prayer.

You feel the Lord and you just adore him...he is everything

Then he and he keeps on coming. If you haven’t experienced this , the n I ask the father to shine his face upon you. So you are wrecked by. Him .  you knees buckles , you bow you knee.

That’s not about lack of sleep,........you look at others as they are asleep.full of word but asleep

Feel free brother to question my words if they are not gospel. I love you



« Last Edit: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 07:32:30 by Bemark »

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #45 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 07:42:15 »
I want to know what works in the spirit. By his word.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #46 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 07:48:21 »
Then I will take the word and go to be with him . If it doesn’t work, I will reject it for the now time . I will not reject it , but hold it at arms reach. Until the revelation comes upon me . Then I will open up his word to be closer to him . I hold each one here and there word in this way. I wait upon the Lord

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #47 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 07:51:26 »
Sit in his word....just sit in him

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #48 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 12:29:35 »
Brother, I 100% agree that we are saved from our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ, or, by his death and resurrection. The Spirit of God is the author of THIS salvation, that is a once and for all salvation....
That I agree with.
Quote from: RB
....~yet it is BY THE GOSPEL we experience many practical salvations during our lifetime as we journey through this world unto our eternal home prepared by God for us. We GROW in grace AND knowledge of the truth, which truth is never perfected in our life.

Do you believe every Christian is on the same level of understanding? Of course not, and we both know that to be true, so there is a practical salvation we all experience from our first coming to Christ until now, and trust it will continue to be many more. You want to limit this to our sanctification, okay, no problem, but still we MUST experience GROWTH AND UNDERSTANDING to make progress in our practical sanctification through the hearing of the word of God. There's sanctification we have in Jesus Christ that is perfect, one that needs no growth, etc.
That I do not agree with. 

It is your confusion between salvation and sanctification that is the problem here.  I have a much more narrow view of the gospel than you seem to have.  The gospel is simply the "good news" of the kingdom of God and of salvation through Christ, to be received by faith, on the basis of His expiatory death, His burial, resurrection, and ascension. That is the message of salvation; the salvation of the soul. There is not a "practical" salvation or a "legal" salvation or "whatever" salvation. Salvation is to be saved -- PERIOD.

Sanctification on the other hand, is the life long process of striving to be and live as God would have us do. The message of sanctification is God's word telling us how we should live.  That is much of the Bible; certainly most of the NT.  Sanctification is a person's relationship  with God, beginning with God's justification and regeneration of that person who believes and is baptized.  Sanctification begins with being saved and continues throughout life.

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #49 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 16:22:47 »
Salvation and Sanctification ......that’s good 4WD

Separating the gospel into ....who was preaching to who and what was there message. who had already received the word of the Lord and his Spirit. But how to live there lives. How to be closer to them. How our relationship with THEM impact our lives today.

Yes .......now to understand his kingdom and get to know THEM. Most of the NT is this. Terms conditions there ways , so we can be with them. He always talked about known him and his ways ..OT

 

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #50 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 16:29:32 »
Most of  NT ..if not all was surely preached to believers . Who was saved. So if we see the word through these goggles. What is he saying to us .....believers

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #51 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 18:43:36 »
The message of the gospel is good news.

More now....he is good news

What does good news bring us. Hope Joy peace etc

He , once connect to him. Imparts life into us . The wages of sin is death.

He removes it . The good news is not just live after death. It’s life , the life of God defeating the death that wants to rein over us.

This is the best news . Yes life eternal, but I want peace for my soul now.

The good news is with us today. As teachers we must show the way , display the way , the way of the Lord who destroys hell. The hell that wants to keep us bound . We have the resurrection power. Living in us today. To ascend , rise above it. Today in the land of the living. This is the good news

It’s not just the ticket .....it’s the ride we are all on. Born again .....now experiencing , coming to a understanding of who he, they are. Becoming one with our creator. With each other . Our new family. We all are his . We are brothers and sisters. We shall be known for the love that we have for each other. This is the word of God , his word will not fail . The day we all long to see. He will bring this to pass.
In his coming we will grow closer. In him we are one

Offline Bemark

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #52 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 18:52:20 »
And if you don’t feel it....pray...pray ...pray...

Get with brothers and sisters  who pray. Build each other up....speak life not death

You have to do this work. He has done it all...but you have to enter ...the kingdom is at hand .

We have to enter . We have to go into the promised land .seek him with all your heart soul strength and mind. Love your neighbour as yourself.

This is the rules of live. His rules he has set before us.

It’s a game that I am playing . I am going to pass go and collect my 200 dollars. 

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #53 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 19:16:05 »
Psalm 118
New King James Version
Praise to God for His Everlasting Mercy

118 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
2 Let Israel now say,
“His mercy endures forever.”
3 Let the house of Aaron now say,
“His mercy endures forever.”
4 Let those who fear the Lord now say,
“His mercy endures forever.”
5 I called on the Lord in distress;
The Lord answered me and set me in a broad place.
6 The Lord is on my side;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?
7 The Lord is for me among those who help me;
Therefore I shall see my desire on those who hate me.
8 It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in princes.
10 All nations surrounded me,
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
11 They surrounded me,
Yes, they surrounded me;
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
12 They surrounded me like bees;
They were quenched like a fire of thorns;
For in the name of the Lord I will [a]destroy them.
13 You pushed me violently, that I might fall,
But the Lord helped me.
14 The Lord is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.
15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation
Is in the tents of the righteous;
The right hand of the Lord does valiantly.
16 The right hand of the Lord is exalted;
The right hand of the Lord does valiantly.
17 I shall not die, but live,
And declare the works of the Lord.
18 The Lord has chastened me severely,
But He has not given me over to death.
19 Open to me the gates of righteousness;
I will go through them,
And I will praise the Lord.
20 This is the gate of the Lord,
Through which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise You,
For You have answered me,
And have become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 [c]This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes.
24 This is the day the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I pray, O Lord;
O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.
27 God is the Lord,
And He has given us light;
Bind the sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar.
28 You are my God, and I will praise You;
You are my God, I will exalt You.
29 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #54 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 19:24:25 »
You have to enter his kingdom. Even David knew this .

This is where we become one. The place Jesus wants us to SHOW UP.

the place were we forgive our brothers and sisters. The place not our will but his will be done. The place I only do what I SEE . my father do in heaven. It’s in heaven ....then we bring it down to earth. On earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. spiritual key....do it in heaven then bring it to earth.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #55 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 20:30:26 »
4WD:

   In reference to the "rock" of Matthew 16:18, another view of the "rock" goes like this, "Upon this confession of faith that I am the Christ the Son of God, I will established my ekklesia" [congregation].

    In other words, the confession itself is the "rock." I'm inclined to understand the passage thusly.

Buff

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #56 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 21:53:43 »
Did we miss it OT and NT

IN ................HIS  NAME

See David knew how to destroy the enemy. In the realm of the spirit. In heaven you defeat the heavenly ones

Not on earth. In heaven , you die so .....on earth you can live...be free. That’s a massive key you have to turn in the kingdom of heaven.......so we become 1. Can’t be done any other way .

Then he releases his angels so his word is upheld. He searches your heart first. Cant hide from him , why would you want to?

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #57 on: Thu Sep 23, 2021 - 21:54:32 »
I am a fool for him.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #58 on: Fri Sep 24, 2021 - 02:42:57 »
4WD:

   In reference to the "rock" of Matthew 16:18, another view of the "rock" goes like this, "Upon this confession of faith that I am the Christ the Son of God, I will established my ekklesia" [congregation].

    In other words, the confession itself is the "rock." I'm inclined to understand the passage thusly.

Buff

No, the rock is not the confession.  The rock is Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #59 on: Sat Sep 25, 2021 - 20:40:32 »
Quote
  In reference to the "rock" of Matthew 16:18, another view of the "rock" goes like this, "Upon this confession of faith that I am the Christ the Son of God, I will established my ekklesia" [congregation].

    In other words, the confession itself is the "rock." I'm inclined to understand the passage thusly.

Buff

The Rock is our Lord Jesus the Christ.

By the way, what makes you say that the phrase "Jesus is the Christ and Son of God" is a confession of faith?

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #60 on: Sun Sep 26, 2021 - 21:50:06 »

4WD & Glorious:

    "No, the rock is not the confession. The rock is Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God."

    You might be correct, but the "rock," I think, can be understood both ways.

    As to whether or not the phrase is a confession of faith, Peter made it. It was not a confession of unbelief, but a confession of faith or reliance—assurance or conviction.

Buff

Online RB

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #61 on: Mon Sep 27, 2021 - 05:04:12 »
4WD & Glorious: You might be correct, but the "rock," I think, can be understood both ways.

    As to whether or not the phrase is a confession of faith, Peter made it. It was not a confession of unbelief, but a confession of faith or reliance—assurance or conviction.
The SUBJECT of the CONTEXT tells us clearly how we should understand Christ's words to Peter.

The subject of this short discourse is asked by a question:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 16:13b"........Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"
Peter told Jesus "Some men say he is......"~They said everyone known by them that they were convinced was from God~but, to get his point across to them, he asks them directly:
Quote
Matthew 16:15b"......But whom say ye that I am?"

The correct answer was given by Peter, (v15) yet not by the fact that Peter was wiser, more gifted, or any virtue of his own than others had, who gave an incorrect answer, but because his answer was FREELY GIVEN to him by God's divine revelation to his heart which Christ makes very clear to him:
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Matthew 16:16~"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Is the very point which of this short discourse that Christ wanted them to understand so that they would not glory over other men, who had not as of yet been BLESSED of God to receive the same revelation which Peter is seen to possessed.

It is UPON THIS ROCK of being blessed of God to be able to see and understand the doctrines of Christ that the CHURCH of Jesus Christ has always and will continue to be built. If a person does not confess the doctrines of Christ it is because he is NOT of Christ, and God has not opened his understanding to see and know whom Jesus Christ truly is.
Quote from: John
2nd John vss 8-11~"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: “That They May All Be One”
« Reply #62 on: Wed Sep 29, 2021 - 14:56:51 »
rb
Quote
Not sure where you get that teaching, for you certainly did not get it from the scriptures themselves~most likely from the "church" you are part of, it must be one of "their" doctrines

Acts 2:41