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Offline Reformer

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More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 12:57:15 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
_______________________________
 
More On The Age Of Earth And
The Universe

     “For in six days the Lord made the heavens” [universe and our solar system] “and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]

    The Hebrew word for “day” is “yom” and is defined by Hebrew scholars as a common solar day, beginning with verse 5 of Genesis, chapter one. It is used in the same sense at least 358 times elsewhere in the Old Testament scriptures. There is no logical reason why the first chapter of Genesis would be the exception. When we contemplate God’s awesome power, there’s hardly any question but that He could have created everything suddenly, just as He did Adam. “In the beginning” of time, however, He chose to complete His creation in six solar days. 

     But another problem with the conception that God utilized billions of years to create everything, or what He created is billions of years old,  is that He instructed the Jewish people to rest on the seventh day and keep it holy. If each day consisted of millions or billions of years, I’m not out of the loop by inquiring, “Were His people to rest billions of years on each seventh “day”?

    “Day” is employed in the same vein in referring to the seventh as it is used in referring to the other six. Thus whatever we attribute to the first six days, 24-hours per day or billions of years, we must also attribute to the seventh day. And if each of the six days comprised millions or billions of years, the Jewish people, who were told to rest on the seventh, should have rested for billions of years.

    If we must understand the days of creation figuratively or metaphorically, what is wrong with understanding metaphorically the days Jesus’ body was in the tomb—three solar days or billions of years? True, “day” is sometimes used symbolically, such as in the Book of Revelation, which is largely written in signs and symbols, but not in relation to creation and the time Jesus’ body was in the tomb. 

    Could the material from which the earth and universe were made have existed billions of years?  I understand verses one through five of the first chapter of Genesis the first 24-hour day of creation. It was on this first day that God created the substance from which He formed the universe, created the light, and separated the light from darkness. “And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day” [v. 5]. God took a chaotic mass of material He had made and fashioned our immaculate universe! The supernatural power of our Creator cannot be doubted by those who seek heaven’s answers with receptive hearts. 

    Geologists, of course, tell us the earth and the universe are billions of years old. And a few Geologists and non-geologists on Grace Centered affirm the same. Perhaps the earth does appear to be millions of years old, and perhaps the universe appears to be billions of years old. Let me express it in this fashion:
 
    If God’s awesome power could create a man—Adam—as opposed to a child, and make him look biologically older than he actually is, could He not create a planet and universe and make both appear older than they actually are? Logic demands a “Yes” response! 

    Yes, this in spite of National Geographic’s long essay on radioactive carbon dating and the “expansion rate of the universe,” known as the “Hubble constant” [Sept., 2001]. As I view it, God’s unequaled power created the stars and transported their light to earth instantaneously—not over a period of millions or billions of years. 

    And speaking of National Geographic, they say their evidence “yields an age of the universe to be about 13 billion years.” “About” 13 billion? They’re not always certain! Could they be  a few billion years off—say about 13 billion? This is the history of evolutionists, scoffers, and skeptics. They can’t even agree among themselves as to the precise age of our universe. I suggest they permit God to help them. He says six days.

    One of our Grace Centered writers affirms the earth and the universe are 14 billion years old. If one skeptic is off one billion years, and another is off three billion years, and yet another is off nine million years, how in heaven’s name can anyone trust their “scientific findings” called “evidence”? I’ll take God’s testimony above the reckless and uncertain testimony of evolutionists, scoffers, and agnostics.
« Last Edit: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 21:56:09 by Reformer »

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More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 12:57:15 »

Offline Rella

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #1 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 14:57:17 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
_______________________________
 
More On The Age Of Earth And
The Universe

        “For in six days the Lord made the heavens” [universe and our solar system] “and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]

    The Hebrew word for “day” is “yom” and is defined by Hebrew scholars as a common solar day, beginning with verse 5 of Genesis, chapter one. It is used in the same sense at least 358 times elsewhere in the Old Testament scriptures. There is no logical reason why the first chapter of Genesis would be the exception. When we contemplate God’s awesome power, there’s hardly any question but that He could have created everything suddenly, just as He did Adam. “In the beginning” of time, however, He chose to complete His creation in six solar days. 

     But another problem with the conception that God utilized billions of years to create everything, or what He created is billions of years old,  is that He instructed the Jewish people to rest on the seventh day and keep it holy. If each day consisted of millions or billions of years, I’m not out of the loop by inquiring, “Were His people to rest billions of years on each seventh “day”?

    “Day” is employed in the same vein in referring to the seventh as it is used in referring to the other six. Thus whatever we attribute to the first six days, 24-hours per day or billions of years, we must also attribute to the seventh day. And if each of the six days comprised millions or billions of years, the Jewish people, who were told to rest on the seventh, should have rested for billions of years.

    If we must understand the days of creation figuratively or metaphorically, what is wrong with understanding metaphorically the days Jesus’ body was in the tomb—three solar days or billions of years? True, “day” is sometimes used symbolically, such as in the Book of Revelation, which is largely written in signs and symbols, but not in relation to creation and the time Jesus’ body was in the tomb. 

    Could the material from which the earth and universe were made have existed billions of years?  I understand verses one through five of the first chapter of Genesis the first 24-hour day of creation. It was on this first day that God created the substance from which He formed the universe, created the light, and separated the light from darkness. “And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day” [v. 5]. God took a chaotic mass of material He had made and fashioned our immaculate universe! The supernatural power of our Creator cannot be doubted by those who seek heaven’s answers with receptive hearts. 

    Geologists, of course, tell us the earth and the universe are billions of years old. And a few Geologists and non-geologists on Grace Centered affirm the same. Perhaps the earth does appear to be millions of years old, and perhaps the universe appears to be billions of years old. Let me express it in this fashion:
 
    If God’s awesome power could create a man—Adam—as opposed to a child, and make him look biologically older than he actually is, could He not create a planet and universe and make both appear older than they actually are? Logic demands a “Yes” response! 

    Yes, this in spite of National Geographic’s long essay on radioactive carbon dating and the “expansion rate of the universe,” known as the “Hubble constant” [Sept., 2001]. As I view it, God’s unequaled power created the stars and transported their light to earth instantaneously—not over a period of millions or billions of years. 

    And speaking of National Geographic, they say their evidence “yields an age of the universe to be 13 billion years.” “About” 13 billion? They’re not always certain! Could they be  a few billion years off—say about 13 billion? This is the history of evolutionists, scoffers, and skeptics. They can’t even agree among themselves as to the precise age of our universe. I suggest they permit God to help them. He says six days.

    One of our Grace Centered writers affirms the earth and the universe are 14 billion years old. If one skeptic is off one billion years, and another is off three billion years, and yet another is off nine million years, how in heaven’s name can anyone trust their “scientific findings” called “evidence”? I’ll take God’s testimony above the reckless and uncertain testimony of evolutionists, scoffers, and agnostics.


“For in six days the Lord made the heavens” [universe and our solar system] “and the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11].

Yes, we are told this in Exodus. But does it say they were back to back days..comprising a week? Or rather over a 144 hour period.....?

I have consistently said that I do not believe that it took billions of years for God to make our creation.

But the facts are that there are things, certain skeletal remains, that have been dug up... (Museums are full of stuff) that while they date them to crazy time spans
that simply defy they would have existed with Adam, and Moses and Noah, and all the others leading down the line to you and me today. Lucy, ( australopithecine) for example..., “Luzia’s” skull ( recoveredfromthe fire in Brazil Nat'l Museum) An international team of researchers has announced the discovery of the world’s oldest known fossil primate skeleton, to name a few

archicebus-full-610" border="0

If there were,surely they would have been written about by one of people and made it into the bible. But there is nary a reference.

I made a long post, in The Big Bang theory this morning and you can look at it or ignore it as you wish reply #124
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/the-big-bang-theory-106570/msg1055168932/#new

At the end I posted something said in the Hebrew Interliner Bible.  י֥וֹם אֶחָֽד׃פ

Looking up the meaning of this...as I cannot read Hebrew I found definition in Strongs.

Strongs  definition of this Hebrew

י֥וֹם אֶחָֽד׃פ

And there was evening and there was morning a fifth day.

Now I dont know about you. But I am 449% certain those who do read Hebrew will come along with their input and other suggestions....

But this A does not say it was necessarily [(1)Sunday, (2)Monday, (3)Tuesday, (4) Wednesday  (5) Thursday ] Thursday day 5 in the weekly order....

It says to me that on  the 5th day that God was creating He created life.

There could have been a very longtime between creation day 4 and creation day 5.

We have no way of knowing. Or any other of the creation days.




Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #2 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 15:18:33 »
    The Hebrew word for “day” is “yom” and is defined by Hebrew scholars as a common solar day, beginning with verse 5 of Genesis, chapter one. It is used in the same sense at least 358 times elsewhere in the Old Testament scriptures. There is no logical reason why the first chapter of Genesis would be the exception.
The sun doesn't yet exist there.  That would seem to be a logical reason for an exception, IMO.  ::kissing::

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #2 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 15:18:33 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #3 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 17:47:44 »
The Hebrew word for “day” is “yom” and is defined by Hebrew scholars......
That was really a pretty weak presentation the meaning for the Hebrew word, "yom".  For a more complete consideration I would recommend Hugh Ross's book, A Matter Of Days, Resolving a Creation Controversy, published by NavPress.

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #3 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 17:47:44 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #4 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 21:34:01 »

ANOTHER IDEA ON THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE & EARTH -

    We see in Genesis one that vegetation was created on the 3rd day. But the sun was not created until the 4th day. I didn’t major in agriculture, but I think plant life needs the sun to grow and thrive. So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

    Too, I guess Adam and Eve had to be very careful about whatever fruit they ate. If some had been on a tree for billions of years, seems like it would have been a bit rotten—or at least too sour to consume!

Buff

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #4 on: Sun Aug 02, 2020 - 21:34:01 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #5 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 04:41:52 »
ANOTHER IDEA ON THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE & EARTH -

    We see in Genesis one that vegetation was created on the 3rd day. But the sun was not created until the 4th day. I didn’t major in agriculture, but I think plant life needs the sun to grow and thrive. So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

    Too, I guess Adam and Eve had to be very careful about whatever fruit they ate. If some had been on a tree for billions of years, seems like it would have been a bit rotten—or at least too sour to consume!

Buff

I don't know whether you were trying to be funny with those comments or you really are that ignorant of modern basic cosmology.  You remind me of a person my wife once worked with who argued that the bee's knees proved that the theory of biological evolution was false because a bee breathes through its knees and so if it evolved from the feet up it wouldn't have been able to breath and if it evolved from the head down it also wouldn't have been able to breath and hence there wouldn't have ever been any bees.

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #5 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 04:41:52 »

Offline Alan

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #6 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 09:24:45 »
ANOTHER IDEA ON THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE & EARTH -

    We see in Genesis one that vegetation was created on the 3rd day. But the sun was not created until the 4th day. I didn’t major in agriculture, but I think plant life needs the sun to grow and thrive. So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

    Too, I guess Adam and Eve had to be very careful about whatever fruit they ate. If some had been on a tree for billions of years, seems like it would have been a bit rotten—or at least too sour to consume!



You're obviously not too bright yourself, especially when you continue to take potshots at the well researched and documented facts surrounding the age of the Cosmos.


Another interesting point that NO YEC has ever been able to answer is "why haven't any of the tens of thousands of scientists that have studied geology ever concluded by means of study and research that the earth is only 6000 years old"? Would seem to be reasonable if there was the slightest iota of truth to the hypothesis that at least one scientist would have provided a coherent study on their findings. Instead, the only material available for young earth science is agenda driven Christian pseudo-science filled with false information.

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #7 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 12:11:02 »
ANOTHER IDEA ON THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE & EARTH -

    We see in Genesis one that vegetation was created on the 3rd day. But the sun was not created until the 4th day. I didn’t major in agriculture, but I think plant life needs the sun to grow and thrive. So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

    Too, I guess Adam and Eve had to be very careful about whatever fruit they ate. If some had been on a tree for billions of years, seems like it would have been a bit rotten—or at least too sour to consume!

Buff

Quote
I didn’t major in agriculture, but I think plant life needs the sun to grow and thrive. So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

That would be the perfect example of genetically engineered food, son.  rofl

Or perhaps the light created on day one was the prototype for Grow Bulbs.....  ::idea:: Yes, that must have been it .

Quote
So how did the plants live during the billions of years with no light?

First plant life did not come about until day 3. When dry land appeared.  ( Light was created on day 1)

So seeing that there was light.... and dark when earth was made... I will suggest plant life came into being about 11:55AM.

Before noon, cause noon would have been the end of morning and evening and morning made the day. And that allowed it to be closer to 6,000 years ago. ::clappingoverhead::

Offline Reformer

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #8 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:40:59 »

AN INTERESTING NOTE FROM ONE OF MY REFORMATION RUMBLINGS RECIPIENTS

    DEAR BUFF— I have a lot of respect for your biblical knowledge, but you are so very wrong when it comes to geological history. To claim that God created everything in 6 literal 24-hour days is not supported by geological facts. It is true that God could do it in 6 days, but it would make him the greatest deceiver in the world. God cannot and does not lie.
_____

    MY REPLY— “William, in this big, bad world there is to be found true science and false science. So it is with the science of geology.

    “You noted, ‘God cannot and does not lie.’ True, which means if it took Him more than six days to create everything, He did lie. If there’s a falsehood somewhere along the line, we must not place the guilt upon our Creator’s shoulders, for, as you said, ‘God does not and cannot lie.’ ”
_____

    If I might repeat part of the column William replied to, the same column I posted on Grace Centered.

    If God’s awesome power could create a man—Adam—as opposed to a child, and make him look biologically older than he actually is, could He not create a planet and universe and make both appear older than they actually are? Logic demands a ‘Yes’ response!”

Buff

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #8 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:40:59 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #9 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 14:53:03 »

Alan:

    "You're obviously not too bright yourself, especially when you continue to take potshots at the well researched and documented facts surrounding the age of the Cosmos."
_____

    My, my, Alan, you've been eating some of that billion year-old spoiled fruit, haven't you—the same fruit Adam and Eve ate? Shame on you for being so non-bright. "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

Buff

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #10 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 15:01:39 »

My Response, via Paul:

    4WD"I don't know whether you were trying to be funny with those comments or you really are that ignorant of modern basic cosmology."

    Apostle Paul“Warn a divisive person once, and then warm him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful—he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:10-11].

Buff

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #11 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 15:18:36 »
My Response, via Paul:

    4WD"I don't know whether you were trying to be funny with those comments or you really are that ignorant of modern basic cosmology."

    Apostle Paul“Warn a divisive person once, and then warm him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful—he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:10-11].

Buff

This is your third warning to 4WD in the past week counting reply #10 in this thread.  Perhaps you need to read Paul a little closer.

WHAT'S NEW?

    Manipulating and distorting the Greek again, as usual, at the same time you are manipulating and distorting my message. I truly question your sincerity.

    “Warn a divisive person once, and then warm him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful—he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:10-11].

Buff

LET’S SEE IT LIKE IT IS -

    From 4WD, Manipulator & Distorter Of What Some Of Us Write— “Buff doesn’t know enough of the science of anything to legitimately mock anything about the logic behind any theory.”

   From The Apostle Paul, Chosen By God Himself— “Warn a divisive person once, and then warm him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful—he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:10-11].

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #12 on: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 22:58:31 »
Paul's Warning -

    Someone is counting the number of times Paul's warming is posted here. Good! Look for #4, should I see evidence for the need of it.

Buff
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 03, 2020 - 23:00:57 by Reformer »

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Re: More On The Age Of Earth And The Universe
« Reply #13 on: Tue Aug 04, 2020 - 06:00:09 »
My Response, via Paul:

    4WD"I don't know whether you were trying to be funny with those comments or you really are that ignorant of modern basic cosmology."

    Apostle Paul“Warn a divisive person once, and then warm him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful—he is self-condemned” [Titus 3:10-11].

Buff

So your advice to me is that I should warn you once and the warn you a second time.  After that, I should have nothing to do with you because you are warped and sinful?  Warped?  Yes I do think you are warped. You do indeed have a warped view of God's work of creating and His creation. Sinful? Probably, but but not necessarily with respect to the things being discussed; I just think you are simply terribly misguided in your interpretation of some of what God has revealed to us.  But perhaps more important, I don't think Paul's warning was intended to deal with your sort of divisiveness.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 04, 2020 - 06:04:55 by 4WD »

 

     
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