Author Topic: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery  (Read 577 times)

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Offline NyawehNyoh

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The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« on: Mon Oct 26, 2020 - 09:15:03 »
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NOTE: Please try not to become defensive. The topic isn't meant to attack God and/or somebody's belief in God; it's only to initiate an academic bull session.
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Gen 6:5 . . And the Lord saw that the evil of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of his heart was only evil all the time.

Man's descent into depravity didn't catch his creator by surprise. After all; not only can God see the future but He can also manipulate it; so He was well aware even before beginning that the people He was about to create were destined from day one for a global deluge.

Also, when God inspected His handiwork at Gen 1:31, He evaluated it not just good, but "very" good. So as far as He was concerned; everything went smoothly and according to plan-- nothing was broken, no parts were missing, and nothing failed to mate with its matching part.

Gen 6:6 . . And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth, and He became grieved in His heart.

When God created the people of man, it was no doubt with the awareness that the day would come when He would have to put a number of them down like dogs gone mad with rabies.

If it can be safely assumed that God saw man's depravity coming well in advance-- prior to creating even one of the many forces, energies, and particles that would go into the construction of the cosmos --then we have to wonder why it is that He felt remorse for going ahead as planned. Surely it wasn't because He made a terrible mistake. I seriously doubt that a master architect with the creator's intelligence would fail to foresee every possible ramification of their actions.

Well; it's at least comforting to know the destruction of life is not something God enjoys as if He were an outdoor guy who kills fish and wildlife for sport with no more sensitivity than a kid blasting aliens in a video game. Man's creator knew the day was coming when He would have to do what He was about to do next, and clearly wasn't looking forward to it, but nevertheless; leaves us with unavoidable questions about His sanity because from a rational perspective, God's procedures make no sense at all.

Anyway, aside from all that; it appears to me that God had high expectations for the people of man, and was very disappointed that numbers of them went bad; sort of like how parents feel when a kid, whom they've given every privilege, every opportunity, and every advantage imaginable, lets it all go overboard and somehow ends up incorrigible and a total failure instead.

Gen 6:7 . . And the Lord said: I will blot out man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them.
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« Last Edit: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 11:37:37 by NyawehNyoh »

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The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« on: Mon Oct 26, 2020 - 09:15:03 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #1 on: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 11:40:35 »
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Were I a logical person, I would have to conclude that the Judeo/Christian God is a fiend. I mean think about it: why would a sensible designer proceed to bring into existence, without their consent, human lives whom he knew in advance that some day he would be destroying most of them.

Others have worked around this issue with a posit that the creator isn't all-knowing. In other words: they suggest He didn't foresee the people's depravity, i.e. He wasn't expecting it.
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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #2 on: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 11:54:11 »

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #2 on: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 11:54:11 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #3 on: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 13:48:43 »
He not only expected it, he saw it and experienced it. He is outside of time therefore he sees and experiences all things in the past, present and future simultaneously. To Him there is no FOREKNOWLEDGE in the sense we think about foreknowledge, just knowledge of all things for all times.

In other words if he experienced His son's death on a cross outside of time, to God he was absolutely crucified as the Lamb of God before the beginning. It would be like me watching the entire episode of NCIS in one instant of time from beginning to end, if I existed outside of time. I would not JUST know the ending, I would have experienced the ending from the beginning.

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #3 on: Tue Oct 27, 2020 - 13:48:43 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #4 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 11:23:57 »
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Bringing thousands, even multiplied millions, of people into existence so they could lose their lives in order to achieve one's own personal ambition isn't Christian, rather, it's Machiavellian.

Phil 2:4 . . Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Seeing as how Christ expressly forbids selfish ambition amongst his own; therefore, before proceeding with your ideas, be very sure to ponder all the possible ramifications of your actions first.

Stepping on people's toes, and/or thwarting their ideas so that yours prevail, fails to satisfy the law of Christ; which requires believers to love their fellow believers as Christ loves them (John 15:12). It also fails to satisfy the Golden Rule which says: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you. (Matt 7:12). Always looking out for No.1 just simply isn't very nice.
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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #4 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 11:23:57 »



Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #5 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 11:29:05 »
He not only expected it, he saw it and experienced it. He is outside of time therefore he sees and experiences all things in the past, present and future simultaneously. To Him there is no FOREKNOWLEDGE in the sense we think about foreknowledge, just knowledge of all things for all times.

In other words if he experienced His son's death on a cross outside of time, to God he was absolutely crucified as the Lamb of God before the beginning. It would be like me watching the entire episode of NCIS in one instant of time from beginning to end, if I existed outside of time. I would not JUST know the ending, I would have experienced the ending from the beginning.
This is one theory about the nature of God.  But it's just a theory.  The Bible doesn't spell this out for us.

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #5 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 11:29:05 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #6 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 12:21:53 »
Any theory about this is only to help is get our 3 dimensional minds around a 4 plus dimensional God. I have faith it is beyond my grasp, but that theory helps my finite brain begin to process an infinite God, to little avail of course. It’s still a matter of faith no matter which theory we ascribe to.

« Last Edit: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 12:24:51 by Jaime »

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #7 on: Wed Oct 28, 2020 - 21:13:40 »
Any theory about this is only to help is get our 3 dimensional minds around a 4 plus dimensional God. I have faith it is beyond my grasp, but that theory helps my finite brain begin to process an infinite God, to little avail of course. It’s still a matter of faith no matter which theory we ascribe to.

Jamie, this is true. My own personal opinion is that we can't possibly know what God knows and sees because we are not God. We don't even know what another human being has seen and known. Is time linear, circular, spiral, other, or a combination. George Ellis has a newer theory that the future can't be known because it hasn't happened yet. Is God inside time, outside of time or both? Who knows? But from reading the Scriptures, the people of old seem to view time as cyclic or circular: birth, death and rebirth, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, like clockwork. History repeats itself.


Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #8 on: Thu Oct 29, 2020 - 11:32:36 »
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Rev 6:10 . . They called out in a loud voice: How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?

The Greek word translated "sovereign lord" is despótees; which means an absolute ruler. i.e. a despot.

We're dealing with a supernatural entity who's adequately demonstrated that He's fully capable of walking over people's bones to get what He wants; and not even atom bombs can impede His progress.

Isa 45:12 . . I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. With my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the millions of stars are at my command.

I have to say that anyone with enough power at their disposal to invent and control all the laws of nature and physics, is someone to fear.

For example: Jesus, by means of the power of God, could restore blindness. Well anybody who can restore blindness can just as easily cause it. Jesus also healed paralysis. Well if he can heal paralysis then he can just as easily cause that too. And he restored dead bodies to life; which means he could just as easily put people down. He also healed withered limbs. Same thing. If he can heal a withered limb, then he can just as easily do it in reverse; and also speech.

That kind of power is terrifying, especially when it's in the hands of a despot; and were it to be wielded against God's enemies they would have no possible hope of defending themselves because when people's muscles are atrophied, and they are blind, paralyzed, mute, and quite possibly dead; they're totally helpless and in no condition to do much of anything except complain; if that.
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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #8 on: Thu Oct 29, 2020 - 11:32:36 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #9 on: Fri Oct 30, 2020 - 17:11:06 »
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POSIT: Since it goes beyond assuming that our Lord God has the power of “perfect
premonition,” it must also go beyond assumption that the Lord God has the perfect
power of perfect “disposition” i.e the ability to stifle His power of premonition.


RESPONSE: That's a popular work-around, but seeing as how it has no basis in
scripture, then good sense requires that it always be entertained as a spurious
theory.

Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your pleasure
that they exist and were created.

In other words: God created everything to suit Himself; so it's not too difficult to
understand why it is that some folk regard God as a tyrannical bully who puts
people in awful jeopardy without first consulting with them as to how they might
feel about it.
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« Last Edit: Fri Oct 30, 2020 - 17:14:02 by NyawehNyoh »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #10 on: Sun Nov 01, 2020 - 16:12:01 »
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1Pet 1:18-20 . .You know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Rev 13:8 . . And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship [the beast], whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Greek word translated "foundation" in that verse is katabole (kat-ab-ol-ay') which refers to a deposition, i.e. a founding; figuratively: conception

In a nutshell; the two passages above indicate that Christ's crucifixion was included in the master plan of creation from before God uttered His famous words in Gen 1:3, which implies that His son's crucifixion wasn't an EMT sent to the scene of a train wreck; no, it turns out that God, by means of precognition, was expecting the fall of man prior to any men even existing and was all ready for it, i.e. the fall of man didn't take man's creator by surprise, viz: His son's crucifixion wasn't a contingency, rather, the event was scheduled, and it took place right on time.

One day when I was a little boy, my dad and I were talking about Jesus and his crucifixion. I was under the impression that he was a victim of unfortunate circumstances. But my dad corrected me by saying: No, that was all planned.

I was too young at the time to comprehend the ramifications of my dad's comment; but years later, while listening to a radio preacher explain it, I began to realize just how profound my dad's words were-- and still are.
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Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #11 on: Wed Nov 11, 2020 - 09:38:17 »
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The Hebrew word translated "regret" is somewhat ambiguous. Though it includes feeling rue for making a mistake, it also implies taking an unpleasant course of action that you know will cause people harm and/or inconvenience though for sure the course is the wise thing to do.

For example: God was poised to destroy the city of Nineveh lest they changed their ways. Within that city were 120,000 underage children, and numbers of beasts, that would've been collateral damage had not the adults heeded Jonah's preaching.

God impressed upon Jonah that He would not take pleasure in destroying those children, nor those beasts. However, God would have done so because it was the wise thing to do.

I cannot even begin to imagine how it was wise (or right) for God to go ahead and create mankind while knowing well in advance by means of precognition that they would go bad and He would have to kill off just about everything-- birds, beasts, men, women, and underage children too.

The creator knew in advance that if He went ahead as planned, the end result would be the termination of untold numbers of terrified people not only in a Flood, but also in the brimstone depicted by Rev 20:10-15.

It's a mystery. People brighter and better educated than I have thus far been unable to figure it out: they make excuses for God (a.k.a. apologetics) instead of coming to grips with the reality that we're all little more than an insect zoo: just bugs imprisoned in a terrarium constructed for the supreme being's amusement.

Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created.
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« Last Edit: Tue Nov 17, 2020 - 20:18:29 by NyawehNyoh »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
« Reply #12 on: Tue Nov 17, 2020 - 21:10:09 »
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FAQ: Is it safe to assume that God's ways are always right even when they sometimes appear totally wrong?

A: Yes; and here's why:

When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his wife obtained an intuitive sense of right and wrong (Gen 3:22). Unfortunately, the sense they obtained was unreliable due to the fact that it was a product of the Serpent's handiwork instead of their divine benefactor's.

The Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil/Satan (Rev 12:9) --has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

That explains why God is commonly perceived making mistakes and/or acting like a demented fiend; and also why, try as it might, the human mind cannot make sense of some of the things God does.
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« Last Edit: Tue Nov 17, 2020 - 21:19:27 by NyawehNyoh »