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Offline herald

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The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« on: June 02, 2008, 12:17:16 PM »
A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25.  He, only, "thinks to change," because no man/institution can overrule our Creator and change His law. The, only, time in His Covenant is the Sabbath.

Catholic:  "Question.- Have you any other way of proving that the church has the power to institute festivals of precept?"

                "Answer. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week , for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

Presbyterian:  "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." - Dwight's theology, vol.4, p. 401.

Congregational:  "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." - Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

Lutheran:  "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church." -"Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

Episcopalian:  "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday." - Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186.

Methodist:  "It is true there is no command for infant baptism...Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week." - Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp 180, 182, 1902 ed.

Baptist:  Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual,before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov 13, 1893 said, "There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday.  It will be said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all it's duties, privileges and sanctions.  Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found?  Not in the New Testament, absolutely not.  There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know, that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources.  But what a pity that it comes with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"

Our Creator instituted the Sabbath as part of the Creation Covenant with Adam, and so with all of mankind.  Jesus referred to Himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8; Mk 2:28; Lu 6:5.  Sunday was called, "The Lord's Day," in sun worship, common in The Roman Empire.

To say, that, the Sabbath is obsolete, is to reject the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who prophesied, that, the Sabbath would still be kept during The Great Tribulation: "But pray ye thatyour flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: for then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:20,21.  And we are not there, yet.

When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law.  Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.  These two are a summation of The Ten:

If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not worship or bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet.

"By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments.  For this is love that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Not for those under The New Covenant who have His Covenant engraved upon their hearts and minds.  Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10; 10:12-17.  Born again believers are called, "the seed of Abraham." Ga 3:16,29.  "For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions  (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...to such as keep His Covenant and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Ps 103.

Covenants have conditions.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John wrote,"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14.

There are Ten Commandments in the Covenant and they are commandments - not requests.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.


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The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« on: June 02, 2008, 12:17:16 PM »

Tantor

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 12:33:16 PM »
Modern day Judiazer?

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 12:33:16 PM »

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 01:33:25 PM »
The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.

-Justin Martyr

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; [it is] iniquity, even the solemn meeting.  Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them].

-God
I cannot do anything for God.  God can do anything through me.

Still waiting for God to show up?  Good news - He's already here.

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 01:33:25 PM »

Offline herald

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 01:47:07 PM »
The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples, and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath.

Would you say, that, we can worship and bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk with a holy God?

Why separate the fourth commandment from His Covenant?

There is a difference in the Ceremonial law and the Ten Commandment Covenant.  Circumcision is now of the heart, washings are baptism, Jesus was the clean, sacrificed for the unclean, so that we may be clean.  The Sabbath Feast days were fulfilled:

Passover: Our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin
Tabernacles: He "tabernacled among us"...

If the ceremonial law had not been fulfilled, we would, still, be sacrificing animals.

Ceremonial Law:

1.  Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15
2.  Was spoken by Moses.  Lev 1:1-3
3.  Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12
4.  Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26
5.  Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14
6.  Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15.

The Ten Commandment Covenant deals with our character and was not done away. The Holy Spirit uses them in our sanctification.

The Ten Commandment Covenant:

1.  Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:8
2.  Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13
3.  Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18
4.  Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20; Heb 9:4
5.  Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8.
6.  Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple, The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL."  Rev 11:19.

The Jews added hundreds of rules and regulations to the Sabbath.  I follow the example of Jesus.  He worshiped the Father, and met human need.

Isaiah prophesied, that, we will keep the Sabbath in His Kingdom:
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.  And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the Lord."  Isa 66:22,23.


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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 01:47:07 PM »

blituri

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 01:49:52 PM »
SABBATH means REST and not Saturday.  As a seventh it is always the seventh after the FIRST. Many Old Testament events began on the FIRST DAY of the week reserved for rest and instruction. No WORK meant "not sending out ministers" which would stop Saturday SERVICES (meaning hard bondage). Holy Convocatons were held on the FIRST DAYS of great festivals.  Not Saturday!

Sunday is the first day and obviously NOT the seventh day Sabbath.  There is no REST day in the church and therefore the Lord's day is NOT the replacement for the Star-gazing keepers of the SABBATH keyed to the moon and not to a regular calendar.

The fact that some preachers call the Lord's Day the replacement for the SABBATH was never true nor did they ever PRACTICE it. 

Jesus used the Greek word PAUO which has the same meaning of REST (sabbath). PAUO is a highly dedicated word meaning to STOP whatever we were doing as "creating spiritual anxiety through religious rituals." Rather, the church would never assemble on the JEWISH SABBATH because they would not be able to travel or "send out the preacher."  They assembled on the FIRST of the sabbath as a "school of the Bible" and to preach the death of Christ through the Lord's Supper.

You simplly CANNOT do anything connected to the modern Saturday Worship (which is not the sabbath) remotely similar to the modern meaning of the church as INSTITUTE.  Assuredly you would not TAKE UP COLLECTIONS on the Sabbath.  If you speak you are LIMITED to Scripture and never "speaking your own words."

Sunday is never called a "day of worship" any more than the assembly at the synagogue was called a WORSHIP SERVICE.  Paul's only and unique worship word is to GIVE HEED to that which is written.

I most often do REMEMBER THE SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY but no Sabbatarian does.

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 01:49:52 PM »



Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 02:06:05 PM »
The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples, and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath.

Would you say, that, we can worship and bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk with a holy God?

Why separate the fourth commandment from His Covenant?
I haven't.  I've advocated keeping it in the way God prescribed, rather than the way that man prescribed.

Agreeing with Justin, whom I quoted, "The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath."
I cannot do anything for God.  God can do anything through me.

Still waiting for God to show up?  Good news - He's already here.

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 02:06:05 PM »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 02:19:05 PM »
Those quotations from official SDA websites herald posted are all taken out of context. The SDA sites I've seen (an SDA member named RND posted these and the Campbell quotes below last year trying to make the same point) also usually quote Alexander Campbell, one of the "foundrrs" of the Disciples of Christ, Christian Church and Church of Christ, rippping a quote by him out of context to make it seem as if Campbell was a Sabbatarian. But I notice herald didn't post the one the SDA usually use by Campbell, which is this one:

"I do not believe that the Lord's day came in the room of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day, for this plain reason, where there is no testimony, there can be no faith. Now there is no testimony in all the oracles of heaven that the Sabbath was changed, or that the Lord's day came in the room of it."-ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, Washington Reporter, Oct. 8, 1821.

In case friend herald does quote Campbell, here's some background on Campbell's views on the sabbath and the way SDA sites misquote him. What the SDA sites don't tell you is that Campbell, in a long series of essays, writing under the penname of Candiduus, was protesting an effort of Christian moral societies, who were at that time lobbying the federal government to enforce the 1794 Sunday/sabbath regulations. These laws attempted to make Sunday, the Lord's Day, a legal day of rest and worship throughout the United States on the grounds that America was a Christian nation and that Sunday was the "Christian Sabbath." Anyone who did not observe Sunday as the Sabbath was liable to be prosecuted. In his articles, which can be read on Dr. Hans Rollmann's site here:

http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/acampbell/ce/CE00A.HTM

Campbell/Candidus argues against the idea that Sunday is the New Testament Sabbath, and not simply the Sabbath moved to Sunday. Campbell believes that the requirement that the sabbath be observed was done away with by Christ. Jesus is now the Christian's Sabbath rest. For Christians thus to observe Sunday as the Jews observed the Sabbath to Campbell was unscriptural, unChristian, and a profanation of the Lord's Day. Then Campbell argues that for the US government to force groups such as Jews and sabbatarians to observe this Sunday/Sabbath law violates their consciences, their freedom of religion, their civil rights, and the US Constitution. Below is a large part of the article the SDA usually quote from above, in context:


The popular doctrine taught from many pulpits which has given rise to the many errors of the religious publick, on the nature and observance of the Lords day, is that it came in room of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day of the week. . . .

I do not believe that the Lords day came in room of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day; for this plain reason; that where there is no testimony there can be no faith. Now there is no testimony in all the oracles of heaven that the Sabbath was changed, or that the Lords day came in the room of it; therefore, no man can properly believe that the Sabbath was changed or that the Lords day came in the room of it. As a great deal depends upon the truth of the preceding argument, we shall take some pains to illustrate it. . . .

The truth proved in the above syllogism may be exhibited in another form, thus - every thing that is believed upon human testimony alone, is received and acted upon by a mere human faith, but that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day of the week, or that the Lords day came in the room of it, is believed upon human testimony alone; therefore he that believes that the Sabbath was thus changed, &c. receives it upon a mere human faith. Amongst the conclusions resulting from the above are the following. 1st, The nature and obligation of the Lords day must be learned exclusively from the New- Testament. 2nd, That to observe the Lords day, as the Jews observed the Sabbath is not to observe the Lords day; or in other words if any man should exactly pay the same respect to the Lords day, as the most strict Jew, shewed to the Sabbath; he would not be acting as a christian, and the Lords day would be abused. 3d, That all measures which may be adopted to cause, or to compel, or to teach mankind to respect the Lords day as the Jews respected the Sabbath are anti-christian, and aim at the supplanting of christianity, and the substituting of Judaism in its stead. 4th, That all the arguments which have been used by my opponents, to transfer a portion of that respect, shewn to the Sabbath, to the Lords day, are inapplicable, inconclusive and grossly sophistical.


CANDIDUS (Alexander Campbell). (The Reporter, 8 October 1821, p. 4.)


Campbell thus argues that the idea that the sabbath continued, albeit simply on Sunday rather than Saturday, is based upon flawed human reasoning, and not the Bible, and that its actually unChristian to do regard Sunday as the Jews regarded the sabbath. Campbell never once in his life argued for sabbath observance, either on Saturday or Sunday.

Those other quotes herald posted are also ripped out of context to prove a point they aren't really making.

Pax.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 02:36:16 PM by Lee Freeman »
"Brethren, for the sake of our souls, let us never get too big to restudy our position." - Bro. KC Moser (1893-1976)

"I propose to finish my course without ever, even for one monent, engaging in partisan strife with anybody about anything." - Elder T. B. Larimore (1843-1929)

"Let the unity of Christians be our polar star." - Elder Barton Warren Stone (1772-1844)

"It is wrong to make anything a condition of fellowship which is not essential to salvation. We draw the line here. That which will damn a soul and separate us in the next world should divide us in this; nothing else should. " - FD Srygley (1856-1900)

blituri

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 02:51:15 PM »
Justin Martyr:

Chapter XXI.-Sabbaths Were Instituted on Account of the People's Sins, and Not for a Work of Righteousness.

"Moreover, that God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and impose on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness, and that of your fathers,-as He declares that for the sake of the nations, lest His name be profaned among them, therefore He permitted some of you to remain alive,-these words of His can prove to you: they are narrated by Ezekiel thus:

    "I am the Lord your God; walk in My statutes, and keep My judgments, and take no part in the customs of Egypt; and hallow My Sabbaths;

        and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God.

        Notwithstanding ye rebelled against Me, and your children walked not in My statutes, neither kept My judgments to do them: which if a man do, he shall live in them.

            But they polluted My Sabbaths.

    And I said that I would pour out My fury upon them in the wilderness, to accomplish My anger upon them; yet I did it not; that My name might not be altogether profaned in the sight of the heathen.

    I led them out before their eyes, and I lifted up Mine hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, and polluted My Sabbaths, and their eyes were after the devices of their fathers.

        Wherefore I gave them also statutes which were not good, and judgments whereby they shall not live. And I shall pollute them in their own gifts, that I may destroy all that openeth the womb, when I pass through them. Ezek. xx. 19-26. ' 53


Offline herald

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 03:00:03 PM »
With all due respect, the fourth commandment is from God. How can you separate the fourth commandment from His Covenant?

Again, with all due respect, my, only, authority is the Word of God.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used, interchangeably, with "law,""statutes," "precepts," "commandments," "testimonies," "judgments"...

His Word = His law.

He enables us by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk in holiness.  The Holy Spirit will never lead us to transgress His law - His Word.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name?  and in Thy name have cast out devils?  and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21;23.

"And hereby we do know that WE KNOW HIM, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him.  But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.  He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6.

The Lord calls the Catholic/Protestant religious system, the "Mother of harlots." Rev 17.  Why?  Because, she has replaced much of the Word of God with her traditions.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partaker of her sins ("the transgression of the law: 1 John 3:4), and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES.  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." Rev 18:4,5.

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law."  Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The Church is ABOVE THE BIBLE, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my DIVINE POWER. I ABOLISH THE SABBATH DAY, and COMMAND you to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo!  The entire civilized world BOWS DOWN in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

(emphasis added)

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell, have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or "Blue laws."  They are, still, on the books in 26 states.  In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

Jesus never used the state to further the Kingdom of God.  

Just as in the garden with the tree, it is a question of allegiance.

Is your allegiance to the "Mother of harlots?" or, to our Creator, who sanctified and blessed the seventh day:

"And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Gen 2:2,3.

""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.  Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

God repeats for emphasis.

And what is "The Everlasting Gospel?

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH, AND TO EVERY NATION, AND KINDRED, AND TONGUE AND PEOPLE.

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and WORSHIP HIM THAT MADE HEAVEN, AND EARTH, AND THE SEA, AND THE FOUNTAINS OF WATERS." Rev 14:6,7.

He is calling us back to honor Him as Creator, by keeping the Sabbath day holy.

It is a commandment.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 03:12:14 PM by herald »

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 03:00:03 PM »

Tantor

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 03:15:42 PM »
The 10 commandments were CIVIL law for the newly created people of Israel after God saved them from oppression in Egypt.

They were for Israel and only Israel.

Jesus summarized the purpose for them and perfectly stated what new christians are to do in their place.

Quote
25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
 26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

 27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

 28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

 29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

There is no mention of Sabbath here... the things regarding CIVIL obedience are passed away because Israel no longer exists.

The old law was one of obedience.. the new law is one of concious.

I contend that if you want to enforce the Jewish Civil law on yourself and other Christians, then you are no different from the Jews that wanted new christians to be circumsized and have to abide by the Jewish laws... you are a Judiazer.. of which the Scriptures do not speak very kindly of.

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 03:15:42 PM »

Offline DCR

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 03:19:28 PM »
With all due respect, the fourth commandment is from God. How can you separate the fourth commandment from His Covenant?

You speak of the Covenant.  Notice what the writer to the Hebrews says in Heb 8-9 (particularly the bolded parts):

Hebrews 8
 1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.
 3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

 7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
   "The time is coming, declares the Lord,
      when I will make a new covenant
   with the house of Israel
      and with the house of Judah.

 9It will not be like the covenant
      I made with their forefathers
   when I took them by the hand
      to lead them out of Egypt,
   because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
      and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
      after that time, declares the Lord.
   I will put my laws in their minds
      and write them on their hearts.
   I will be their God,
      and they will be my people.
 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
      or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
   because they will all know me,
      from the least of them to the greatest.
 12For I will forgive their wickedness
      and will remember their sins no more."

 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.


Continue reading in Hebrews 9, as the old and new covenants are compared even further.

blituri

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2008, 03:22:41 PM »
The Sabbath, like the tithe, was a Babylonian institution: the Sabbath was given to pin the Israelites feet to their homes during this superstitious period. That was when the Babylonians held WORSHIP SERVICES wher the AGENT of the gods rested while the slaves did the work.  You cannot do modern WORSHIP SERVICES and keep the day holy:

    Deut. 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee,
            of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
    Deut. 18:14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess,
            hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners:
            but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
    Deut. 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
            and will put my words in his mouth;
            and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
            (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying,
            This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me:
            for he was before me.
    John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses,
            but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Offline DCR

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2008, 03:24:17 PM »
    The Sabbath, like the tithe, was a Babylonian institution:

Don't know if I would go that far...

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2008, 03:26:03 PM »
I agree with DCR, actually with the Hebrews author. If the first Covenant with its animal sacrifices, new moons and sabbaths, was sufficient, why was a new covenanant inaugrated by God? Basically, why did Jesus have to die if the Mosaic Covenant was sufficient? In Galatians and Romans Paul is adamant that attempting to mix law and grace, even a teeny bit of law, is a false gospel. Its either all law or all grace, there isn't room for both, they're like oil and water, they cancel each other out. Jesus himself addressed the sabbath situation by saying "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

Pax.
"Brethren, for the sake of our souls, let us never get too big to restudy our position." - Bro. KC Moser (1893-1976)

"I propose to finish my course without ever, even for one monent, engaging in partisan strife with anybody about anything." - Elder T. B. Larimore (1843-1929)

"Let the unity of Christians be our polar star." - Elder Barton Warren Stone (1772-1844)

"It is wrong to make anything a condition of fellowship which is not essential to salvation. We draw the line here. That which will damn a soul and separate us in the next world should divide us in this; nothing else should. " - FD Srygley (1856-1900)

Offline herald

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Re: The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2008, 03:31:52 PM »
The children of Israel said, that, they could keep God's Covenant in their own strength, but failed.  Ex 24:7.

If you read my references, God engraves The New Covenant in our hearts and minds.  Jesus took the commandments to the motive of the heart. That is why, He said, that, if a man looks upon a woman to lust, he has, already committed adultery with her in his heart.  Or, if we are angry with our brother, without cause, we are guilty of murder.

Again, when His Spirit is within us, He enables us by His Spirit to obey His Word - His law.  It's called, the Spirit-filled life.

James 2:10,11 tells us, that, if we break one of His commandments, we become transgressors of the law, and are guilty of breaking all of them.

When Moses struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief.  Num 20:12.  When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter the Promised Land, because of unbelief.  Heb 3:19.  Unbelief comes out of an evil heart.  Heb 3:12.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."

disobedience/unbelief
obedience/faith

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  Thou believest that there is one God: thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  Seest thou HOW FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the firend of God...For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Ja 2.

"DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH?  GOD FORBID:YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW."  Rom 3:31.

Our Creator sanctified and blessed the seventh day, long before there was a Jewish nation.

Jesus prophesied, that, the Sabbath would be kept during The Great Tribulation...was He wrong?

Be careful.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 03:49:01 PM by herald »