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Offline gospel

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The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:16:15 »
Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous

Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ

Belonging to God means one is in Christ, set apart as belonging to God and therefore Holy to Him

It is only belonging to God that makes one righteous and holy


By the same token ....

Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners

Sinners are those who still belong to Satan through the world

Belonging to the world means one is still in Adam and therefore a child of his disobedience

It is only rejecting Jesus, depending on one's self effort that causes one to remain in Adam as a sinner belonging to the world


Bottom line

Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness

No more than being Wealthy results from eating at the Ritz

People who eat at the Ritz usually do so because they are wealthy

The same thing holds true for sin

Being Unrighteous does not result from doing things that are unrighteous

Being unrighteous means one BELONGS to Sin

Sin is a Master, it is a thing first, a noun that influences people to do acts of sin

Sin is a noun and a verb

Jesus destroyed Sin ...the noun

He destroyed Sin's ability to remain our master, to keep us in bondage as hostages

He ransomed us and bought our freedom

That does not mean we will never sin, it only means we NO LONGER BELONG TO SIN


Your thoughts?

PS I have plenty of scripture but will only cite them as needed depending on the responses to what I have stated

 ::tippinghat::


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The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:16:15 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #1 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:30:45 »
The Great Carnack predicts you will hear from one who claims not to sin. But ironically sins by claiming that.

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #1 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:30:45 »

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #2 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:34:48 »
The Great Carnack predicts you will hear from one who claims not to sin. But ironically sins by claiming that.



The Great and Mighty Oz agrees with the Great Carnack and I'm sure the Great Buck Howard will agree with them both ::smile::

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #2 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:34:48 »

Offline candy

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 15:09:23 »
Thank you Gospel.  I like your description of eating at the Ritz does not make you wealthy.  Great analogy.  Some people don't understand that we were bought with a high price, God's precious son's blood to bring us into union with Him.  When we think of all the pain Jesus went through just to have us in eternity with Him forever, it makes it less likely for us to sin.  Yeah, we all will sin as our flesh is weak and we are in these bodies of flesh, but really thinking back on the physical, emotional, and spiritual pain Jesus went through makes us less likely to want to indulge in the things God hates.  We'll want to please Him and love Him because He first loved us. It certainly helps me keep a cleaner vessel for God to pour through.  My thoughts.
Candy

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 15:09:23 »

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 15:51:03 »
Thank you Gospel.  I like your description of eating at the Ritz does not make you wealthy.  Great analogy.  Some people don't understand that we were bought with a high price, God's precious son's blood to bring us into union with Him.  When we think of all the pain Jesus went through just to have us in eternity with Him forever, it makes it less likely for us to sin.  Yeah, we all will sin as our flesh is weak and we are in these bodies of flesh, but really thinking back on the physical, emotional, and spiritual pain Jesus went through makes us less likely to want to indulge in the things God hates.  We'll want to please Him and love Him because He first loved us. It certainly helps me keep a cleaner vessel for God to pour through.  My thoughts.
Candy

Yes!

Having been made rich toward God, being made wealthy towards Him, having been given every spiritual blessing and all things that pertain to life and godliness......

We are more inclined to live richly, as one who is wealthy, an heir of God and a joint heir with Jesus...because it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance, causes us to turn from a living as those who are spiritually impoverished belonging to the world, to desiring to live a life of spiritual affluency belonging to Royalty  

So....

 in the same way wealthy folks go through training in etiquette, training in the way they speak, the way they walk, the things they do and the people they associate with...we being rich towards God are also in training, daily learning how to live a life worthy of those who are children of the King!

 
« Last Edit: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 16:07:28 by gospel »

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 15:51:03 »



Offline candy

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 16:04:21 »
Manna ::clappingoverhead:: ::amen!::

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 16:04:21 »

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #6 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 19:44:36 »


So....

 in the same way wealthy folks go through training in etiquette, training in the way they speak, the way they walk, the things they do and the people they associate with...we being rich towards God are also in training, daily learning how to live a life worthy of those who are children of the King!

 


Great analogy!

Offline Gomer

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #7 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 11:39:57 »
Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous

Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ

Belonging to God means one is in Christ, set apart as belonging to God and therefore Holy to Him

It is only belonging to God that makes one righteous and holy


By the same token ....

Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners

Sinners are those who still belong to Satan through the world

Belonging to the world means one is still in Adam and therefore a child of his disobedience

It is only rejecting Jesus, depending on one's self effort that causes one to remain in Adam as a sinner belonging to the world


Bottom line

Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness

No more than being Wealthy results from eating at the Ritz

People who eat at the Ritz usually do so because they are wealthy

The same thing holds true for sin

Being Unrighteous does not result from doing things that are unrighteous

Being unrighteous means one BELONGS to Sin

Sin is a Master, it is a thing first, a noun that influences people to do acts of sin

Sin is a noun and a verb

Jesus destroyed Sin ...the noun

He destroyed Sin's ability to remain our master, to keep us in bondage as hostages

He ransomed us and bought our freedom

That does not mean we will never sin, it only means we NO LONGER BELONG TO SIN


Your thoughts?

PS I have plenty of scripture but will only cite them as needed depending on the responses to what I have stated

 ::tippinghat::




So you can show us many examples from the bible of those reckoned righteous while they were still living in unbelief/unrighteousness?


You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness"

So I can be an NFL player even though I have never been a member/player in the NFL.


you say "Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous

Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ"



First, is one righteous BEFORE belonging to God through Christ, that is, he is reckoned righteous while still living in unbelief/sin?


 
Secondly, if a non-believer does his OWN meritorious works of righteousness, he will not be reckoned righteous by God.

But if a non-believer does GOD'S righteousness in believing, repenting, confessing with the mouth and being baptized he WILL be reckoned righteous by God.


You post "It is only belonging to God that makes one righteous and holy"

So how is it one comes to belong to God?  God just randomly chooses who will belong to Him and who will not belong to Him?  So if I did not belong to God that is God's fault for not choosing me to belong to him?


You post "Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners"

"IF" they CONTINUE to walk in the light, then Christ's blood will continue to wash away all sins.  "IF" they quit walking in the light, then Christ's blood no longer cleanses away all sins and they will be come unrighteous sinners.


You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness.    Being Unrighteous does not result from doing things that are unrighteous."

Rom 9:11 "(For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil..."

So Jacob and Esau had done neither good or evil, neither righteousness or unrighteousness, so which were they?  They were neutral, and would not be reckoned righteous until they did righteousness or unrighteous until they did unrighteousness.

------------

John said "he that doeth righteousness is righteous".  John did NOT say "he that doeth righteousness does so because he already is righteous".

------------

Rom 10:3 Paul said the Jews were lost "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,..."  Can one be righteous while in ignorance of God's righteousness?  Exactly what is God's righteousness here that they were ingnorant of?  (Psa 119:172)

----------

Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Those accepted with God are those that work God's righteousness.  


----------

Eze 18:24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

Eze 33:18,19 "When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. "

So what a person does determines if they are righteous/saved or wicked/lost.
« Last Edit: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 11:48:01 by Gomer »

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #8 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 13:01:07 »
Quote
So you can show us many examples from the bible of those reckoned righteous while they were still living in unbelief/unrighteousness?

Yes

Quote
You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness"

Yes

Quote
So I can be an NFL player even though I have never been a member/player in the NFL.

Poor analogy....for your analogy to work you would need to say

Just because you play football and even though you play it very well....that does not make you an NFL player
Quote
you say "Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ"

Exactly ....just because someone goes to Africa and adopts some children or just because they build homes for poor people in Mexico .....that does not make them righteous in God's eyes and it is not the means by which that person will be Saved


Quote
First, is one righteous BEFORE belonging to God through Christ, that is, he is reckoned righteous while still living in unbelief/sin?

Yes...that's what the word RECKON means

It means you are not really righteous but God ACCOUNTS His Righteousness toward you because of Jesus Righteous

YOU ARE RECKONED, I AM RECKONED. By Grace God counts us Righteous BASED ON NOTHING BUT OUR FAITH

Otherwise if it were based on our actual deeds or acts....WE'D BE ETERNALLY DOOMED!
 
The WHOLE purpose of Grace is to GIVE US SOMETHING WE DO NOT MERIT OR DESERVE!


Quote
Secondly, if a non-believer does his OWN meritorious works of righteousness, he will not be reckoned righteous by God.

Correct!

Quote
But if a non-believer does GOD'S righteousness in believing, repenting, confessing with the mouth and being baptized he WILL be reckoned righteous by God.

Yep...except for one thing GOD DOES THE SAVING!

Believing is supernatural event beyond your mental capacity it comes by the Power of the Word and the invisible Hand of God, itself invisible, belief takes up residence in our heart
it is not something you can just mentally calculate, figure out or conjure up

You and your pal Jimmy ignore God's part in our ability to believe, you give Him no glory, no honor and no credit for your ability to believe

Quote
You post "It is only belonging to God that makes one righteous and holy"


Correct!

Quote
So how is it one comes to belong to God?


Read the scripture from Genesis to Revelation He chooses us....not we Him!

You will never find one instance of someone who is not God's suddenly deciding to belong to God, except maybe Ruth but even she married into a family of God's people

Quote
God just randomly chooses who will belong to Him and who will not belong to Him?  So if I did not belong to God that is God's fault for not choosing me to belong to him?

There you go again trying to use human logic....If this, then that ::frown::

You can't apply that foolishness to God

Quote
You post "Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners"

Correct!

You may be a Kennedy, from a long line of Kennedy's but you want to play basketball instead of going into politics, you may want to just party and do drugs...NEVERTHELESS

You are still a Kennedy

Relationship 101...your son is still your son even if he is not acting like it

Quote
"IF" they CONTINUE to walk in the light, then Christ's blood will continue to wash away all sins.  "IF" they quit walking in the light, then Christ's blood no longer cleanses away all sins and they will be come unrighteous sinners.

Walking in the light is not your day to day activities...that's silly!

Walking in the Light is referring to the fact that you understand the Truth, you are living in the Light of Knowledge that Jesus is Lord and He is The Christ and your Savior


Quote
You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness.    Being Unrighteous does not result from doing things that are unrighteous."

No ....you may lie on your taxes...you still belong to God, you are still in Christ, you are no longer in Adam


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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #8 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 13:01:07 »

Offline Thaddaeus

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #9 on: Wed Apr 04, 2012 - 23:32:43 »
gospel,

Quote
Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous

Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ
No, one must be In Christ, belong to God in order to do righteous acts. We are as righteous and we do righteousness.I John 3:7.

If we do not do righteous acts, or doing His will, we are NOT In Christ.

Quote
By the same token ....

Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners
it is the definition of a sinner and they are indeed unrighteous.

Quote
Sinners are those who still belong to Satan through the world

Belonging to the world means one is still in Adam and therefore a child of his disobedience

It is only rejecting Jesus, depending on one's self effort that causes one to remain in Adam as a sinner belonging to the world
I believe that Christ has already come, was Incarnated, became man and was crucified and rose from the dead.  Because He arose from the dead, no man is under condemnation because of Adam any longer. Christ reversed the Fall.  It is why He is called the Second Adam.

Because He redeemed the world, that individual man can see and believe. He is free to enter into a mutual relationship with Christ. And remaining In Christ depends on his own desire and will.

Quote
Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness
which is refuted by scripture, I John 3:7.

Quote
He destroyed Sin's ability to remain our master, to keep us in bondage as hostages

He ransomed us and bought our freedom
which He did for all mankind.

Quote
That does not mean we will never sin, it only means we NO LONGER BELONG TO SIN
on the contrary, all it means is that we are free to sin by our own will and choice. We now will be required to answer for our sin.  We can no longer blame Adam.

There is no scripture that will support your statements.  Not scripture as it has always meant from the beginning.  YOu obviously have twisted scripture to such an extent that it is actually contradictory to scripture.

In short, if one does not do, they cannot belong.


Offline kjb1769

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #10 on: Thu Apr 05, 2012 - 05:53:31 »
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? -Galatians 3:5

Offline Gomer

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #11 on: Thu Apr 05, 2012 - 10:44:34 »
Quote
So you can show us many examples from the bible of those reckoned righteous while they were still living in unbelief/unrighteousness?

Yes

Quote
You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness"

Yes

Quote
So I can be an NFL player even though I have never been a member/player in the NFL.

Poor analogy....for your analogy to work you would need to say

Just because you play football and even though you play it very well....that does not make you an NFL player
Quote
you say "Many non believers do righteous acts but those acts DO NOT make them righteous Righteousness comes by belonging to God through Christ"

Exactly ....just because someone goes to Africa and adopts some children or just because they build homes for poor people in Mexico .....that does not make them righteous in God's eyes and it is not the means by which that person will be Saved


Quote
First, is one righteous BEFORE belonging to God through Christ, that is, he is reckoned righteous while still living in unbelief/sin?

Yes...that's what the word RECKON means

It means you are not really righteous but God ACCOUNTS His Righteousness toward you because of Jesus Righteous

YOU ARE RECKONED, I AM RECKONED. By Grace God counts us Righteous BASED ON NOTHING BUT OUR FAITH

Otherwise if it were based on our actual deeds or acts....WE'D BE ETERNALLY DOOMED!
 
The WHOLE purpose of Grace is to GIVE US SOMETHING WE DO NOT MERIT OR DESERVE!


Quote
Secondly, if a non-believer does his OWN meritorious works of righteousness, he will not be reckoned righteous by God.

Correct!

Quote
But if a non-believer does GOD'S righteousness in believing, repenting, confessing with the mouth and being baptized he WILL be reckoned righteous by God.

Yep...except for one thing GOD DOES THE SAVING!

Believing is supernatural event beyond your mental capacity it comes by the Power of the Word and the invisible Hand of God, itself invisible, belief takes up residence in our heart
it is not something you can just mentally calculate, figure out or conjure up

You and your pal Jimmy ignore God's part in our ability to believe, you give Him no glory, no honor and no credit for your ability to believe

Quote
You post "It is only belonging to God that makes one righteous and holy"


Correct!

Quote
So how is it one comes to belong to God?


Read the scripture from Genesis to Revelation He chooses us....not we Him!

You will never find one instance of someone who is not God's suddenly deciding to belong to God, except maybe Ruth but even she married into a family of God's people

Quote
God just randomly chooses who will belong to Him and who will not belong to Him?  So if I did not belong to God that is God's fault for not choosing me to belong to him?

There you go again trying to use human logic....If this, then that ::frown::

You can't apply that foolishness to God

Quote
You post "Many believers commit acts of sin but those acts DO NOT make them unrighteous sinners"

Correct!

You may be a Kennedy, from a long line of Kennedy's but you want to play basketball instead of going into politics, you may want to just party and do drugs...NEVERTHELESS

You are still a Kennedy

Relationship 101...your son is still your son even if he is not acting like it

Quote
"IF" they CONTINUE to walk in the light, then Christ's blood will continue to wash away all sins.  "IF" they quit walking in the light, then Christ's blood no longer cleanses away all sins and they will be come unrighteous sinners.

Walking in the light is not your day to day activities...that's silly!

Walking in the Light is referring to the fact that you understand the Truth, you are living in the Light of Knowledge that Jesus is Lord and He is The Christ and your Savior


Quote
You say "Being Righteous does not result from doing righteousness.    Being Unrighteous does not result from doing things that are unrighteous."

No ....you may lie on your taxes...you still belong to God, you are still in Christ, you are no longer in Adam




So will you show us many examples from the bible of those reckoned righteous while they were still living in unbelief/unrighteousness?


Gospel posted: "Yep...except for one thing GOD DOES THE SAVING!

Believing is supernatural event beyond your mental capacity it comes by the Power of the Word and the invisible Hand of God, itself invisible, belief takes up residence in our heart
it is not something you can just mentally calculate, figure out or conjure up

You and your pal Jimmy ignore God's part in our ability to believe, you give Him no glory, no honor and no credit for your ability to believe."


What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Gomer: So I can be an NFL player even though I have never been a member/player in the NFL.

gospel:  Poor analogy....for your analogy to work you would need to say. Just because you play football and even though you play it very well....that does not make you an NFL player.

It is a very good analogy.  You suggest one can be righteous without ever having done any righteousness, so why can't I be an NFL player without ever having played in the NFL?


Gomer:  "...is one righteous BEFORE belonging to God through Christ, that is, he is reckoned righteous while still living in unbelief/sin?"

gospel: "Yes..."


So will you show us examples of those God saved (belonged to God) but still continued to live in unrighteousness?


Gomer: "So how is it one comes to belong to God?"

gospel: "Read the scripture from Genesis to Revelation He chooses us....not we Him!"


So if God does not choose me, whose fault is that?

« Last Edit: Thu Apr 05, 2012 - 10:58:29 by Gomer »

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #12 on: Thu Apr 05, 2012 - 13:42:07 »
Quote
What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Funny you stopped short of pointing out that though faith comes by hearing

HEARING COMES BY THE WORD

This means

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!

And as you know

THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!

This means

The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith

Offline Gomer

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #13 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 11:55:31 »
Quote
What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Funny you stopped short of pointing out that though faith comes by hearing

HEARING COMES BY THE WORD

This means

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!

And as you know

THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!

This means

The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith


Rom 10:17 says faith come by hearing which rules out the idea that one is given faith by God randomly, unconditionally separate and apart from the word.  To have faith one must hear/understand God's word and then believe in his heart, Rom 10:9,10.  So faith begins with hearing and then is developed and comes from within the heart......"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.", Jn 5:24.  One must meet the conditions of hearing and believing  before one can have everlasting life.

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #14 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 12:21:10 »
Quote
What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Funny you stopped short of pointing out that though faith comes by hearing

HEARING COMES BY THE WORD

This means

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!

And as you know

THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!

This means

The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith


Rom 10:17 says faith come by hearing which rules out the idea that one is given faith by God randomly, unconditionally separate and apart from the word.  To have faith one must hear/understand God's word and then believe in his heart, Rom 10:9,10.  So faith begins with hearing and then is developed and comes from within the heart......"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.", Jn 5:24.  One must meet the conditions of hearing and believing  before one can have everlasting life.


Ok so besides jumbling a lot of words together differently ...

What are you saying that is different than

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!


THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!


The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith

Offline Gomer

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #15 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 16:01:14 »
Quote
What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Funny you stopped short of pointing out that though faith comes by hearing

HEARING COMES BY THE WORD

This means

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!

And as you know

THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!

This means

The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith


Rom 10:17 says faith come by hearing which rules out the idea that one is given faith by God randomly, unconditionally separate and apart from the word.  To have faith one must hear/understand God's word and then believe in his heart, Rom 10:9,10.  So faith begins with hearing and then is developed and comes from within the heart......"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.", Jn 5:24.  One must meet the conditions of hearing and believing  before one can have everlasting life.


Ok so besides jumbling a lot of words together differently ...

What are you saying that is different than

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!


THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!


The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith

My point was that faith does not unconditionally come directly from God apart from hearing the word.

Offline gospel

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #16 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 16:41:15 »
Quote
What you posted above does not describe biblical belief.  Belief comes by hearing, Rom 10:17, it comes from the heart, Rom 10:9,10 and it can be seen, Mk 2:5.


Funny you stopped short of pointing out that though faith comes by hearing

HEARING COMES BY THE WORD

This means

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!

And as you know

THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!

This means

The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith


Rom 10:17 says faith come by hearing which rules out the idea that one is given faith by God randomly, unconditionally separate and apart from the word.  To have faith one must hear/understand God's word and then believe in his heart, Rom 10:9,10.  So faith begins with hearing and then is developed and comes from within the heart......"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.", Jn 5:24.  One must meet the conditions of hearing and believing  before one can have everlasting life.


Ok so besides jumbling a lot of words together differently ...

What are you saying that is different than

THE WORD IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH!


THE SOURCE OF THE WORD IS GOD!


The Power of Faith is God because God is both the Source of and the object of Faith

My point was that faith does not unconditionally come directly from God apart from hearing the word.

So who if anyone are you disqualifying?

Who if anyone are you say does not have faith?

I don't understand what you're trying to say any better than it has already been said or any clearer

Why are trying to say what faith is not

When we are discussing what it is?

Why are you presenting a negative when the scripture is presenting a positive?

Faith comes by hearing

Hearing comes by the Word

The Word is from God

Faith comes from God

The Word which is being referred to is not just any Word

Faith won't come by reading about Samson even though there is some Gospel in Samson's story

Faith comes by Hearing the Word of Faith, the Gospel, The Good News of Salvation in Christ

Now the Scripture:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

Notice: THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD FOR SALVATION

That is the Word by which faith comes...The Gospel

It doesn't come by preaching bad news

It doesn't come by preaching the law

It doesn't come by preaching obedience

Faith comes by the Gospel of Christ Jesus which is the Power of God unto Salvation
for everyone who believes

And as you know

When the Gospel is preached

all who are chosen for eternal life became believers.
Acts 13:48
 ::tippinghat::

Offline Debrah

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Re: The Difference Between Belonging and Doing
« Reply #17 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 21:47:11 »
the church in Sardis

Jesus: "I find that your actions (DOING) do not meet the requirements of my God,

Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil (DOING what is right in the requirements of God). They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

All who are victorious (in DOING Gods will) will be clothed in white. I will never erase (what was that? Did Jesus say ERASE?) their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine (Rev. 3)