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Offline Everhope

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The difference between God's love and man's love
« on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 03:14:12 »
Some one asked for scriptural evidence for my statement that God's love is different than our feelings-led love.

Here we go:

   Once God has spoken;
      twice have I heard this:
   that power belongs to God,
      and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
   For you will render to a man
      according to his work.
(Psalm 62:11-12 ESV)

   For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving,
      abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
(Psalm 86:5 ESV)

   The LORD is merciful and gracious,
      slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 103:8 ESV)

   “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
(Malachi 3:6 ESV)

God's love is steadfast, unchanging, self-less, man's love is selfish, based on feelings, emotions, we love one hour and hate the next, hence unstable, because feelings are unstable, our love is selective and blind.

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

   Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13 ESV)

Action, sacrifice, not a feeling, an emotion or words.

   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)

...this does not say fulfilling half or some of the law either lol

lol No matter what I am trying to say all paths lead to the law always.

Anyway, yes, there are evidence of God's love, in order to compare/contrast with man's love just look at yourself and see the difference.

Example of God's love:

   As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)

Man's love:

I love you Lord. I love you I love you I love you.
What law, don't put me under any law, it's too hard, plus it's legalism, oh, and Jesus kept it for me, I will offend Him if I try keeping it too lol *thinks of other reasons of why the law is bad* Oh yes, haven't you read Galatians? The law does not save, but I love you Lord, I love you I love you I love you.

Action vs words. Love vs emotion/feeling. Steadfast vs crazy lol

Blessings

Everhope




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The difference between God's love and man's love
« on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 03:14:12 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #1 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 07:51:53 »
Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #1 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 07:51:53 »

Offline Everhope

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #2 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:11:52 »
I don't know why is it sad to always go back to the the universal standards God has set for His children to live by.

Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Indeed this is a good example of God's love vs man's love.

Loving God means following His instructions, obedience:

   “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
(John 14:15 ESV)

He knows we love Him when we "keep his commandments and do what pleases him. (1 John 3:22 ESV)

   Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
   
(1 John 3:24 ESV)

And by this we also know that He doesn't (abide in us):

   Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
(1 John 2:4 ESV)

Tadaa! 

Blessings

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #2 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:11:52 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #3 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:19:14 »
Yes, but its not up to you to determine who is and is not following God's ways.
 
All you have is the outward appearance, God looks at the heart.
 
All you have here, is just typed words, and yet, you judge, accuse and tear at the Body of Christ.  ::shrug:: I don't get it. Oh well.
 
Blessings to you!

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #3 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:19:14 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #4 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:20:36 »
So...in view of the verses you give, what do you legalists, who are so proud of yourselves for your exhaustive obedience to the 10 Commandments do, when you break them?

Do you not prove that you do not love God, and that you are liars?

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #4 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:20:36 »



Offline Everhope

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #5 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:32:54 »
Yes, but its not up to you to determine who is and is not following God's ways.
 
All you have is the outward appearance, God looks at the heart.
 
All you have here, is just typed words, and yet, you judge, accuse and tear at the Body of Christ.  ::shrug:: I don't get it. Oh well.
 
Blessings to you!

The body of Christ will not be "teared" by what I write, what I write is according to God's word, a "body" would be though, teared, the one that's been already defeated!

It is not hard to determine anything when one comes with "I don't have to keep the commandment, it is not for me, it doesn't mean what it says, I have other more appealing commandments" etc...

We are given a standard by which to live and judge (believers) and we are warned to do it rightly, identify and expose error, and rebuke.

   This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
(Titus 1:13 ESV)

... also avoid:

   I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
(Romans 16:17 ESV)

...and separate:

   Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
(2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV)

   Therefore go out from their midst,
      and be separate from them, says the Lord,
   and touch no unclean thing;
      then I will welcome you,
(2 Corinthians 6:17 ESV)

We ARE to judge!!!

Blessings

Everhope

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #5 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:32:54 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #6 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:38:32 »
Yes, but its not up to you to determine who is and is not following God's ways.
 
All you have is the outward appearance, God looks at the heart.
 
All you have here, is just typed words, and yet, you judge, accuse and tear at the Body of Christ.  ::shrug:: I don't get it. Oh well.
 
Blessings to you!

The body of Christ will not be "teared" by what I write, what I write is according to God's word, a "body" would be though, teared, the one that's been already defeated!

It is not hard to determine anything when one comes with "I don't have to keep the commandment, it is not for me, it doesn't mean what it says, I have other more appealing commandments" etc...

We are given a standard by which to live and judge (believers) and we are warned to do it rightly, identify and expose error, and rebuke.

   This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
(Titus 1:13 ESV)

... also avoid:

   I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
(Romans 16:17 ESV)

...and separate:

   Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
(2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV)

   Therefore go out from their midst,
      and be separate from them, says the Lord,
   and touch no unclean thing;
      then I will welcome you,
(2 Corinthians 6:17 ESV)

We ARE to judge!!!

Blessings

Everhope

I feel like this is a merry-go-round that is not very merry.
 
We are called to rebuke...those we KNOW and are in fellowship with face to face...not strangers on a message board! Before we do decide to judge and pick at others walks, Christ says we are to make sure we don't have a big ol 40 lb long danglin from our own eye.  ::shrug:: To me, that makes the rebuke a very serious issue that should not be entered into lightly, rashly or emotion driven. 
 
And, we are called to encourage and build each other up. 
 
God wants a balance.
 
PS. for the last time, Ever..no one is saying we don't' have to obey God.  You judge others because your convictions differ and there is no grace or love in that. God has many parts to His Body, for many uses and purposes.  He loves variety!  Just look at this board for proof! LOL! We are all so different in our convictions!
 

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #7 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:47:24 »
Yes, but its not up to you to determine who is and is not following God's ways.
 
All you have is the outward appearance, God looks at the heart.
 
All you have here, is just typed words, and yet, you judge, accuse and tear at the Body of Christ.  ::shrug:: I don't get it. Oh well.
 
Blessings to you!

The body of Christ will not be "teared" by what I write, what I write is according to God's word, a "body" would be though, teared, the one that's been already defeated!

It is not hard to determine anything when one comes with "I don't have to keep the commandment, it is not for me, it doesn't mean what it says, I have other more appealing commandments" etc...

We are given a standard by which to live and judge (believers) and we are warned to do it rightly, identify and expose error, and rebuke.

   This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
(Titus 1:13 ESV)

... also avoid:

   I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
(Romans 16:17 ESV)

...and separate:

   Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
(2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV)

   Therefore go out from their midst,
      and be separate from them, says the Lord,
   and touch no unclean thing;
      then I will welcome you,
(2 Corinthians 6:17 ESV)

We ARE to judge!!!

Blessings

Everhope

I feel like this is a merry-go-round that is not very merry.
 
We are called to rebuke...those we KNOW and are in fellowship with face to face...not strangers on a message board!

Amen! That is part of the responsibility and privilege of being a member of the local church! Those who have forsaken the command to assemble sit outside the body of Christ and can do nothing but judge from the outside, but have no authority or influence.

Quote
Before we do decide to judge and pick at others walks, Christ says we are to make sure we don't have a big ol 40 lb long danglin from our own eye.  ::shrug:: To me, that makes the rebuke a very serious issue that should not be entered into lightly, rashly or emotion driven. 

Exactly.
 
Quote
And, we are called to encourage and build each other up. 
 
God wants a balance.

You got it, sistah!  ::clappingoverhead::
 
Quote
PS. for the last time, Ever..no one is saying we don't' have to obey God.  You judge others because your convictions differ and there is no grace or love in that. God has many parts to His Body, for many uses and purposes.  He loves variety!  Just look at this board for proof! LOL! We are all so different in our convictions!

Yep!  ::tippinghat::

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #8 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:59:59 »
So...in view of the verses you give, what do you legalists, who are so proud of yourselves for your exhaustive obedience to the 10 Commandments do, when you break them?

REALLY good question! 

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #8 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 08:59:59 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #9 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 09:26:02 »
Here is a perfect example of how God expects us to love like He does:

 
 "That level of obedience (loving those that are hostel towards us) simply doesn't come naturally," says Jim Daly. "Human nature resists cooperation. Of course, on our own this kind of love is impossible — but not if we allow God to grab hold of our heart. That is what I tell my sons: If we are willing, God can shape us in a way that compels us to live a life that reflects His heart."
Jim Daly, President
 Focus on the Family
 he goes on to say:
"One of the most difficult teachings in scripture to model for my sons is the admonition from Jesus to show love and kindness to those who are hostel towards us"

« Last Edit: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 09:28:54 by MeMyself »

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #10 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 09:38:23 »
We ARE to judge!!!

Blessings

Everhope

With the same measure of judgment you pass on another...God will judge you.
 
Matthew 7:2 (NIV)
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Luke 6:37 (NIV)
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
 
I would rather forgive...but, that is just me...

Offline chosenone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #11 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 09:59:58 »
Here is a perfect example of how God expects us to love like He does:

 
 "That level of obedience (loving those that are hostel towards us) simply doesn't come naturally," says Jim Daly. "Human nature resists cooperation.Of course, on our own this kind of love is impossible — but not if we allow God to grab hold of our heart. That is what I tell my sons: If we are willing, God can shape us in a way that compels us to live a life that reflects His heart."
Jim Daly, President
 Focus on the Family
 he goes on to say:
"One of the most difficult teachings in scripture to model for my sons is the admonition from Jesus to show love and kindness to those who are hostel towards us"



 Yes that IS hard sometimes. "Pray for those who persecute you". It often goes against what our human minds want to do, but its what God asks of us. 

Offline Carey

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #12 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 10:25:27 »
The problem as I see it, is can we be certain of our interpretations?  If we cannot, and we espouse what we say as the final word -- the Truth, we are in danger of causing others to stumble.

I am far more weary of placing stumbling blocks in the paths of those that might otherwise come to Christ, than to try to convince others my interpretation is the correct one. 

IMO far more credibility is garnered by one who acknowledges his shortcomings, giving their point of view, but humbly, uncertainly, and allowing the reader to work with God to come to understanding. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)


This has a certain ambiguety, it can be read as love itself is the fulfillment of the law, or that fulfilling the law is love.  I see the former, but that is my interpretation, I will not say those that choose the latter are wrong, that is between them and God.

It bears mention that if the latter is boldly taught as the only interpretation, some may see themselves as unable to fulfill such a requirement and a stumbling block has been placed in their path.  If even one is lost by such an impediment, the one that caused them to stumble may have some explaining to do.

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)


Again, this can be read that there is a distinction between those commandments given by Jesus, and those of the old covenent.  Jesus kept His Father's commandments, but the verse does not desire us to, rather to keep His (Jesus') commandments. 

Is there a difference? Perhaps, perhaps not; my point is not to argue one way or the other, rather that an argument can be made, and if an argument can be made, it may be prudent to be humble in one's interpretation.


Quote from: Memyself
We are called to rebuke...those we KNOW and are in fellowship with face to face...not strangers on a message board!

This is an excellent point, when such a rebuke is undertaken it can be tailored to the individual, and the maturity of their faith.  The same rebuke may cause one to stumble, and edify another;  on this board it is likely to do both; and the edification of some, will never be worth the loss of even one.

Carey.
 

Offline Carey

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #13 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 10:27:40 »
I would rather forgive...but, that is just me...

No its not. ::smile::

Offline Debrah

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #14 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 11:15:30 »
I believe the op and all that have replied have made some great points as to what our walk is and should look like as a believer.
 I do not see the op as  a "legalistic" as one reply suggested, but one who is concerned for those children of God whom still walk in the flesh, and have not fully submitted to the Spirit.
As believers we are commanded to judge other believers, in love, to bring them to repentance. We are not to judge non-believers.
If a child of God is not obeying God, he/she has grieved the Holy Spirit and has no power in Christ, and those walking in God's obedience have the obligation to try and bring that person to repentance or you yourself will be in sin.
 And sometimes that can be done on forums like when we can read that someone is in sin, or teaching something false, because we do not want others who are reading that who maybe immature in Christ, or a non-believer to except such a sin or belief.
seems many here like to cause such division over any teaching that seems like "legalism", when most of it is straight from scripture, so many seem fearful of teachings of obedience, they call it following the "law" and not grace, and that is not what the op is saying at all.
 
if you are not producing fruit for God, submitting to the Spirit you are either not truly saved or you are a carnal Christian that needs to repent.  If you do not repent, and the Holy Spirit has warned you many times, sisters and brothers have warned you many times, the unrepented sinners heart will become hardened, and at this point will not hear the Spirit nor those who are trying to bring him to repentance.
 For those of us who do not believe in the OSAS doctrine this could be the point where the unrepentent person has broken  his covenant with God.
He/she has given up their gift of grace.  But no one but God can make that judgment.

Offline chosenone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #15 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 11:31:09 »
I believe the op and all that have replied have made some great points as to what our walk is and should look like as a believer.
 I do not see the op as  a "legalistic" as one reply suggested, but one who is concerned for those children of God whom still walk in the flesh, and have not fully submitted to the Spirit.
As believers we are commanded to judge other believers, in love, to bring them to repentance. We are not to judge non-believers.
If a child of God is not obeying God, he/she has grieved the Holy Spirit and has no power in Christ, and those walking in God's obedience have the obligation to try and bring that person to repentance or you yourself will be in sin.
 And sometimes that can be done on forums like when we can read that someone is in sin, or teaching something false, because we do not want others who are reading that who maybe immature in Christ, or a non-believer to except such a sin or belief.
seems many here like to cause such division over any teaching that seems like "legalism", when most of it is straight from scripture, so many seem fearful of teachings of obedience, they call it following the "law" and not grace, and that is not what the op is saying at all.
 
if you are not producing fruit for God, submitting to the Spirit you are either not truly saved or you are a carnal Christian that needs to repent.  If you do not repent, and the Holy Spirit has warned you many times, sisters and brothers have warned you many times, the unrepented sinners heart will become hardened, and at this point will not hear the Spirit nor those who are trying to bring him to repentance.
 For those of us who do not believe in the OSAS doctrine this could be the point where the unrepentent person has broken  his covenant with God.
He/she has given up their gift of grace.  But no one but God can make that judgment.
  debrah
I AM more concerned with believers who cant seem to accept that they are loved and wanted and accepted as they are. ::shrug:: Thats what makes me so sad. I used to be like that so I know.
I dont believe that it is the job of anyone here to judge others in that way. The Biblical examples are for the church family to have proccedures for when one of their own is sinning and needs to be challenged. Here we are not in that situation and barely know each other. The problem here is that if anyone disagrees with anyone else, they are sometimes judged, just for disagreeing. Sometimes it seems that there is a general condemnation for anyone who does not see things in exactly the same way as them, instead of accepting that maybe, just maybe, they havent got it all sown up. Also that maybe, just maybe, Gods journey with each of us is different and unique, and that what THEY need at this time, is NOT what others need ::smile:: 

Offline Everhope

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #16 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 12:33:43 »
I believe the op and all that have replied have made some great points as to what our walk is and should look like as a believer.
 I do not see the op as  a "legalistic" as one reply suggested, but one who is concerned for those children of God whom still walk in the flesh, and have not fully submitted to the Spirit.
As believers we are commanded to judge other believers, in love, to bring them to repentance. We are not to judge non-believers.
If a child of God is not obeying God, he/she has grieved the Holy Spirit and has no power in Christ, and those walking in God's obedience have the obligation to try and bring that person to repentance or you yourself will be in sin.
 And sometimes that can be done on forums like when we can read that someone is in sin, or teaching something false, because we do not want others who are reading that who maybe immature in Christ, or a non-believer to except such a sin or belief.
seems many here like to cause such division over any teaching that seems like "legalism", when most of it is straight from scripture, so many seem fearful of teachings of obedience, they call it following the "law" and not grace, and that is not what the op is saying at all.
 
if you are not producing fruit for God, submitting to the Spirit you are either not truly saved or you are a carnal Christian that needs to repent.  If you do not repent, and the Holy Spirit has warned you many times, sisters and brothers have warned you many times, the unrepented sinners heart will become hardened, and at this point will not hear the Spirit nor those who are trying to bring him to repentance.
 For those of us who do not believe in the OSAS doctrine this could be the point where the unrepentent person has broken  his covenant with God.
He/she has given up their gift of grace.  But no one but God can make that judgment.

Amen, Debrah, thank God for you, sister, and for a few others around. What an amazing God we serve.

Blessings

Everhope


Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #17 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 12:44:48 »
The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

Really...are you serious?  Paul defines it perfectly in 1Corithians 13...
 
He shows us the most excellent way...
 
1Corinthians 13:4...Love is patient, love is kind.  It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easliy angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protecs, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  8Love never fails...
 
The difference between Gods love and mans can be summed up in that last line in the beginning of vs. 8
 
God's love never fails...
Man's love always fails...
 
The only way we as a child of God can love as Paul defines is through the power of the Holy Spirit...total and absoult surrender to Him.
 
You are right about one thing...feelings are not God's love; God's love is sincere, pure and perfect...something we can never be.

p.s. after reading Fish153 post...I retract that feelings are not God's love; indeed Jesus wept...as He was deeply moved by His love.
 
 
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 13:57:59 by Thankfulldad »

Offline fish153

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #18 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 13:30:53 »
"When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. “Where have you laid him?” he asked.

“Come and see, Lord,” they replied.

Jesus wept.

Then the Jews said, “See how he loved him
!”(John 11:33-36)

Everhope---

Please don't be so quick to say that love is only an action in God's eyes.  God became a man in Jesus Christ---and he wept for his friend.  And the Jews said "See how he loved him!"

Remember, Jesus has FELT and EXPERIENCED all that we as men/women feel and experience. He is well aware of our human weaknesses. He was tempted in all ways that we are, YET WITHOUT SIN.  That is why He is the perfect Mediator between God and man, and is our Great High Priest in Heaven who never ceases to pray for us. God does indeed feel love, as the verses above clearly demonstrate.
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 13:52:39 by fish153 »

Offline Yahshua

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #19 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 14:38:41 »
May I ask a few related questions for thought...

Is it equitable for us to say to those who would promote "following commands" out of love that they are legalistic and judgmental, while at the same time accusing those people of "forsaking commands" (like the assembly of believers), judging them as being "outside" of the body of Christ?

Both groups believe in commands to follow in obedience to God, so is it really fair to label one group as "legalistic" without labeling the other group as the same, or should we end the label altogether? We all believe in commands; rules that must be followed out of love, right?

As surely as one group can label the other as "legalistic" - and argue that the old law was done away with - the other group could counter-argue and say that the "command" to assemble together wasn't a command from God at all (a "thus saith the Lord") but was a plea by Paul for those persecuted members to remain united during their trial, while the commands from God are actual rules that Christ said do not pass away as long as heaven and earth remained and until ALL is fulfilled (and Christ's Revelation Book proves there are some that remaining to be fulfilled).

One could go even further and point out that many (though not all) of those who promote "assembling together" as a command also promote "paying tithes" as an active command...even though paying tithes was a part of the same old law that is argued as being "done away with", and even while Paul (the same who said "assemble together") says give whatever your heart tells you to give, whether money or not money; freely give whatever gift you have (Romans 12:6-9; 2 Corinthians 9:5-15). And yet for some, the mere thought of NOT paying tithes places them in fear of God's curses/wrath even though they have no fear of curses/wrath by not following God's other old commands. Was every law nailed to the cross except for the law about money?

Now I'm not saying assembling together or giving isn't important, I actually do both (though not in/to a church building)...but I think it's more important for all of us to be consistent with commands, isn't it (be Hot or Cold)?

------

But back to the topic, if I were to step back and ask, "true or false: 'loving God is to follow his commandments', is scriptural and is in the New Testiment", the answer would be "true". Is that answer judgmental? No...it's just a fact, and yet, some may feel judged by reading that fact.

And if I were to ask, "true or false: the saints of the end times (from Revelation...which many of us believe we're in or about to be in) are those who keep both God's commandments and Christ's testimony (Rev 12:17; 14:12)", the answer would be "true". Is that answer judgmental? No...it's just a fact, but still, some may feel judged by reading that fact and so respond with a defense against the person answering or drawing attention to the fact.

But what or who is really doing the judging?

Are we claiming that "anyone who would merely bring up the fact that scripture says loving God is following his commandments or that the end time saints are those who keep God's commandments AND Christ's Testimony, is - by default - judging another person"?

[which suggests that bringing up ANY fact is being "judgmental" because it offends someone, and so no one should profess ANY truth.]



...Or, is it the scriptures themselves that are judging us? The Holy Spirit alone convicting us (with complete authority to do so)?

Offline new creature

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #20 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 15:55:22 »
The difference between God´s love and man´s love...

Good question!

Too bad the thread is about the law (not that I´m surprised).

Offline new creature

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #21 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 15:55:47 »
I believe the op and all that have replied have made some great points as to what our walk is and should look like as a believer.
 I do not see the op as  a "legalistic" as one reply suggested, but one who is concerned for those children of God whom still walk in the flesh, and have not fully submitted to the Spirit.
She thinks not observing the sabbath is walking according to the flesh.
She thinks taking her children to their father on saturday is sin because a professional is present.

Offline chosenone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #22 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 15:59:35 »
The difference between God´s love and man´s love...

Good question!

Too bad the thread is about the law (not that I´m surprised).
Nor me really. ::shrug:: .

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #23 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:20:05 »
Some one asked for scriptural evidence for my statement that God's love is different than our feelings-led love.

Here we go:

   Once God has spoken;
      twice have I heard this:
   that power belongs to God,
      and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
   For you will render to a man
      according to his work.
(Psalm 62:11-12 ESV)

   For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving,
      abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
(Psalm 86:5 ESV)

   The LORD is merciful and gracious,
      slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 103:8 ESV)

   “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
(Malachi 3:6 ESV)

God's love is steadfast, unchanging, self-less, man's love is selfish, based on feelings, emotions, we love one hour and hate the next, hence unstable, because feelings are unstable, our love is selective and blind.

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

   Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13 ESV)

Action, sacrifice, not a feeling, an emotion or words.

   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)

...this does not say fulfilling half or some of the law either lol

lol No matter what I am trying to say all paths lead to the law always.

Anyway, yes, there are evidence of God's love, in order to compare/contrast with man's love just look at yourself and see the difference.

Example of God's love:

   As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)

Man's love:

I love you Lord. I love you I love you I love you.
What law, don't put me under any law, it's too hard, plus it's legalism, oh, and Jesus kept it for me, I will offend Him if I try keeping it too lol *thinks of other reasons of why the law is bad* Oh yes, haven't you read Galatians? The law does not save, but I love you Lord, I love you I love you I love you.

Action vs words. Love vs emotion/feeling. Steadfast vs crazy lol

Blessings

Everhope





You go Everhope!!

Offline afaithfulone4u

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #24 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:27:02 »
Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

To keep God's law shows our love for Him and His Word to us shows His love for us.
Man loves for selfish reasons and emotionally, flip floppy, meaning you can't count on it as Everhope said. But God loves faithfully and in truth by giving us what is BEST FOR US, without hesitation.
I admire the way you honor the Lord Everhope and I am sure He notices your desire to please Him.

Offline whitestone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #25 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:30:16 »
I'm sure thankful I don't have to try to keep any ol' law lol.   Only Jesus can do that in me.  That's why I'm free from the law, because Jesus already kept it.   Now that He is in me and I in Him, I see Him keeping the Law in my flesh perfectly :)   Praising Jesus Forever!(2Co 3:2)  *Ye* are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read of all men,

(2Co 3:3)
  being manifested to be Christ's epistle ministered by us, written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God; not on stone tables, but on fleshy tables of the heart.

(2Co 3:4)
  And such confidence have we through the Christ towards God:

(2Co 3:5)
  not that we are competent of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God;

 

Offline fish153

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #26 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:32:44 »
Some one asked for scriptural evidence for my statement that God's love is different than our feelings-led love.

Here we go:

   Once God has spoken;
      twice have I heard this:
   that power belongs to God,
      and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
   For you will render to a man
      according to his work.
(Psalm 62:11-12 ESV)

   For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving,
      abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
(Psalm 86:5 ESV)

   The LORD is merciful and gracious,
      slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 103:8 ESV)

   “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
(Malachi 3:6 ESV)

God's love is steadfast, unchanging, self-less, man's love is selfish, based on feelings, emotions, we love one hour and hate the next, hence unstable, because feelings are unstable, our love is selective and blind.

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

   Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13 ESV)

Action, sacrifice, not a feeling, an emotion or words.

   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)

...this does not say fulfilling half or some of the law either lol

lol No matter what I am trying to say all paths lead to the law always.

Anyway, yes, there are evidence of God's love, in order to compare/contrast with man's love just look at yourself and see the difference.

Example of God's love:

   As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)

Man's love:

I love you Lord. I love you I love you I love you.
What law, don't put me under any law, it's too hard, plus it's legalism, oh, and Jesus kept it for me, I will offend Him if I try keeping it too lol *thinks of other reasons of why the law is bad* Oh yes, haven't you read Galatians? The law does not save, but I love you Lord, I love you I love you I love you.

Action vs words. Love vs emotion/feeling. Steadfast vs crazy lol

Blessings

Everhope





You go Everhope!!

You go Everhope?  I don't think so.  Please re-read post #19.  Scripture clearly shows that God through Jesus "feels" love.  Read it, and you will clearly see that "Jesus wept" for his friend, and for his two sorrowing sisters.  Did we forget that God became a man and walked this earth?  Did we forget that Jesus experienced all that we experience, and is well aware of our feelings, and our failures?  How God-dishonoring to teach differently.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #27 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:34:32 »
Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

To keep God's law shows our love for Him and His Word to us shows His love for us.
Man loves for selfish reasons and emotionally, flip floppy, meaning you can't count on it as Everhope said. But God loves faithfully and in truth by giving us what is BEST FOR US, without hesitation.
I admire the way you honor the Lord Everhope and I am sure He notices your desire to please Him.
I repeat:
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
No one is saying our fallible human love is even close to the agape love that God has and is! (God is love, after all!) Who else would offer their own child for the salvation of the world? Not me! Not you! Not Everhope!  God's love is amazing! ::clappingoverhead:: And, though we fail Him and fall short of His glory, He still proudly calls those that call upon His name His own.  ::smile::
 

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #28 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 21:35:19 »
Some one asked for scriptural evidence for my statement that God's love is different than our feelings-led love.

Here we go:

   Once God has spoken;
      twice have I heard this:
   that power belongs to God,
      and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
   For you will render to a man
      according to his work.
(Psalm 62:11-12 ESV)

   For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving,
      abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
(Psalm 86:5 ESV)

   The LORD is merciful and gracious,
      slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 103:8 ESV)

   “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
(Malachi 3:6 ESV)

God's love is steadfast, unchanging, self-less, man's love is selfish, based on feelings, emotions, we love one hour and hate the next, hence unstable, because feelings are unstable, our love is selective and blind.

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

   Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13 ESV)

Action, sacrifice, not a feeling, an emotion or words.

   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)

...this does not say fulfilling half or some of the law either lol

lol No matter what I am trying to say all paths lead to the law always.

Anyway, yes, there are evidence of God's love, in order to compare/contrast with man's love just look at yourself and see the difference.

Example of God's love:

   As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)

Man's love:

I love you Lord. I love you I love you I love you.
What law, don't put me under any law, it's too hard, plus it's legalism, oh, and Jesus kept it for me, I will offend Him if I try keeping it too lol *thinks of other reasons of why the law is bad* Oh yes, haven't you read Galatians? The law does not save, but I love you Lord, I love you I love you I love you.

Action vs words. Love vs emotion/feeling. Steadfast vs crazy lol

Blessings

Everhope





You go Everhope!!

You go Everhope?  I don't think so.  Please re-read post #19.  Scripture clearly shows that God through Jesus "feels" love.  Read it, and you will clearly see that "Jesus wept" for his friend, and for his two sorrowing sisters.  Did we forget that God became a man and walked this earth?  Did we forget that Jesus experienced all that we experience, and is well aware of our feelings, and our failures?  How God-dishonoring to teach differently.

::nodding::   ::amen!::

Offline fish153

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #29 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 22:07:51 »
Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

To keep God's law shows our love for Him and His Word to us shows His love for us.
Man loves for selfish reasons and emotionally, flip floppy, meaning you can't count on it as Everhope said. But God loves faithfully and in truth by giving us what is BEST FOR US, without hesitation.
I admire the way you honor the Lord Everhope and I am sure He notices your desire to please Him.
I repeat:
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
No one is saying our fallible human love is even close to the agape love that God has and is! (God is love, after all!) Who else would offer their own child for the salvation of the world? Not me! Not you! Not Everhope!  God's love is amazing! ::clappingoverhead:: And, though we fail Him and fall short of His glory, He still proudly calls those that call upon His name His own.  ::smile::
 

Amen!   ::clappingoverhead::

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #30 on: Wed Oct 24, 2012 - 23:13:25 »
I'm sure thankful I don't have to try to keep any ol' law lol.   Only Jesus can do that in me.  That's why I'm free from the law, because Jesus already kept it.   Now that He is in me and I in Him, I see Him keeping the Law in my flesh perfectly :)   Praising Jesus Forever!(2Co 3:2)  *Ye* are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read of all men,

(2Co 3:3)
  being manifested to be Christ's epistle ministered by us, written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God; not on stone tables, but on fleshy tables of the heart.

(2Co 3:4)
  And such confidence have we through the Christ towards God:

(2Co 3:5)
  not that we are competent of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God;

 



Let me be the first to bless you with manna!

Offline Everhope

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #31 on: Thu Oct 25, 2012 - 05:08:00 »
May I ask a few related questions for thought...

Is it equitable for us to say to those who would promote "following commands" out of love that they are legalistic and judgmental, while at the same time accusing those people of "forsaking commands" (like the assembly of believers), judging them as being "outside" of the body of Christ?

Both groups believe in commands to follow in obedience to God, so is it really fair to label one group as "legalistic" without labeling the other group as the same, or should we end the label altogether? We all believe in commands; rules that must be followed out of love, right?

As surely as one group can label the other as "legalistic" - and argue that the old law was done away with - the other group could counter-argue and say that the "command" to assemble together wasn't a command from God at all (a "thus saith the Lord") but was a plea by Paul for those persecuted members to remain united during their trial, while the commands from God are actual rules that Christ said do not pass away as long as heaven and earth remained and until ALL is fulfilled (and Christ's Revelation Book proves there are some that remaining to be fulfilled).

One could go even further and point out that many (though not all) of those who promote "assembling together" as a command also promote "paying tithes" as an active command...even though paying tithes was a part of the same old law that is argued as being "done away with", and even while Paul (the same who said "assemble together") says give whatever your heart tells you to give, whether money or not money; freely give whatever gift you have (Romans 12:6-9; 2 Corinthians 9:5-15). And yet for some, the mere thought of NOT paying tithes places them in fear of God's curses/wrath even though they have no fear of curses/wrath by not following God's other old commands. Was every law nailed to the cross except for the law about money?

Now I'm not saying assembling together or giving isn't important, I actually do both (though not in/to a church building)...but I think it's more important for all of us to be consistent with commands, isn't it (be Hot or Cold)?

------

But back to the topic, if I were to step back and ask, "true or false: 'loving God is to follow his commandments', is scriptural and is in the New Testiment", the answer would be "true". Is that answer judgmental? No...it's just a fact, and yet, some may feel judged by reading that fact.

And if I were to ask, "true or false: the saints of the end times (from Revelation...which many of us believe we're in or about to be in) are those who keep both God's commandments and Christ's testimony (Rev 12:17; 14:12)", the answer would be "true". Is that answer judgmental? No...it's just a fact, but still, some may feel judged by reading that fact and so respond with a defense against the person answering or drawing attention to the fact.

But what or who is really doing the judging?

Are we claiming that "anyone who would merely bring up the fact that scripture says loving God is following his commandments or that the end time saints are those who keep God's commandments AND Christ's Testimony, is - by default - judging another person"?

[which suggests that bringing up ANY fact is being "judgmental" because it offends someone, and so no one should profess ANY truth.]



...Or, is it the scriptures themselves that are judging us? The Holy Spirit alone convicting us (with complete authority to do so)?

Yahshua :-D I missed you, please don't disappear, we need you around desperately, hope you are well.

Thank you for the excellent points in your post, I wonder why "god Lively" didn't bless you with manna :-S Oh wait, she doesn't do "facts"   ::doh::  we are doomed!

Now, to the painful bit, where do I start from, yes, Thankfulldad:

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

Really...are you serious?  Paul defines it perfectly in 1Corithians 13...
 
He shows us the most excellent way...
 
1Corinthians 13:4...Love is patient, love is kind.  It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easliy angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protecs, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  8Love never fails...
 
The difference between Gods love and mans can be summed up in that last line in the beginning of vs. 8
 
God's love never fails...
Man's love always fails...
 
The only way we as a child of God can love as Paul defines is through the power of the Holy Spirit...total and absoult surrender to Him.
 
You are right about one thing...feelings are not God's love; God's love is sincere, pure and perfect...something we can never be.

p.s. after reading Fish153 post...I retract that feelings are not God's love; indeed Jesus wept...as He was deeply moved by His love.
 
 

I am very serious, my dear Thankfulldad. About 1Corinthians 13:4-7, I would like to share something with you, all these words are adjectives, but in the Greek language there are no adjectives, but verbs, and verbs discribe actions, have a closer look, is one simply patient? Or does patience? Kindness?... does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easliy angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protecs, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveresLove never fails...

All these, my friend, describes actions, deeds, doing, you ask your wife DO you love me, and she possibly replies I DO, doing, I hope I am clear. What we read in these few verses is a very detailed description of love. Love is not simply stating "I love you", but love is an action, saying I love God and doing nothing to back it up its meaningless, love is not a feeling!!! Your actions will tell one a lot more of what you are, rather than your words.

"When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. “Where have you laid him?” he asked.

“Come and see, Lord,” they replied.

Jesus wept.

Then the Jews said, “See how he loved him
!”(John 11:33-36)

Everhope---

Please don't be so quick to say that love is only an action in God's eyes.  God became a man in Jesus Christ---and he wept for his friend.  And the Jews said "See how he loved him!"

Remember, Jesus has FELT and EXPERIENCED all that we as men/women feel and experience. He is well aware of our human weaknesses. He was tempted in all ways that we are, YET WITHOUT SIN.  That is why He is the perfect Mediator between God and man, and is our Great High Priest in Heaven who never ceases to pray for us. God does indeed feel love, as the verses above clearly demonstrate.

Ok, lets unpack this up. Do you think Jesus "wept" because He was sad about His dead buddy? Are we talking about Jesus, the Son of God? God Himself? God who can make Adams out of stones?

   And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.
(Matthew 3:9 ESV)

Is this the Jesus you are talking about? If not, then yes, this guy wept for his dead friend, not related to my post but I sympathize.

If yes, I would like to explain something to you, seeing you have been misled. Jesus did not weep because Lazarus was dead, He wept because He was grieved  by the unbelief of people. Lets look together closely:

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

Groaned- ἐμβριμάομαι- G1690 – embrimaomai- anger- from ἐν (G1722) and brimaomai (to snort with anger)
Troubled-ταράσσω-G5015- agitated, stir

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35Jesus wept.
36Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?

See, how they doubt and question why didn't He save Lazarus if He was the Son of God.

38Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

Groaning again

39Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

She doubts, questions, where is the faith she "talked" about in verse 27? (look it up  ::smile:: )

40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

believe-πιστεύω-G4100-to credit, have confidence, to think to be true, to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

Wouldn't you be a little angry at the lack of these Jews' faith, only a few verses after Jesus said:

   Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
   
(John 11:25 ESV)

Note the end of chapter 10, the last verse states:

   And many believed in him there.
(John 10:42 ESV)

...and the beginning of chapter 11:

   Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha.
(John 11:1 ESV)

Note that this has already been discussed in previous chapters:

   “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
(John 5:25 ESV)

   And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
(John 5:27-28 ESV)

   The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
(John 10:10 ESV)

   My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
(John 10:27-28 ESV)

After all the teaching about eternal life, you would imagine these people would have more faith in the Lord, and not sit around weeping. The unbelief of people made Jesus groan, unbelief is a sin in itself, and can lead to disobedience, God hates sin/disobedience, but loves man, could this be what grieved Him?

I think of times when my children would misbehave/disobey and I would have to discipline them, for their own good, although I hate every second of it. I hate taking things of them, especially things they love (electronics with this generation) I want to give them all I can but they are not only preventing me from giving (rewarding bad behavior is not cool) but they are also making me take away from them (heartbreaking), which is very painful, as a parent we do not want to take, but give, yet disobedience calls for discipline, for their own good (not mine). God is our Heavenly Parent, how much more would He suffer when we sin, and how much more will He delight in our obedience?

Who is next lol lets see. Whitestone.

I'm sure thankful I don't have to try to keep any ol' law lol.   Only Jesus can do that in me.  That's why I'm free from the law, because Jesus already kept it.   Now that He is in me and I in Him, I see Him keeping the Law in my flesh perfectly :)   Praising Jesus Forever!(2Co 3:2)  *Ye* are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read of all men,

(2Co 3:3)
  being manifested to be Christ's epistle ministered by us, written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God; not on stone tables, but on fleshy tables of the heart.

(2Co 3:4)
  And such confidence have we through the Christ towards God:

(2Co 3:5)
  not that we are competent of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God;

 


Right, so Jesus did it for you so you don't have to? He kept the law so you don't have to? He loved perfectly so now you don't have to? You took the trash out yesterday so now you don't have to any more?

   My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
(1 John 2:1-6 ESV)

   From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
(Matthew 4:17 ESV)

Does this sound like "Relax, I took your sin away, kept the law for you, ran the race for you"? What were you reading?

Some one asked for scriptural evidence for my statement that God's love is different than our feelings-led love.

Here we go:

   Once God has spoken;
      twice have I heard this:
   that power belongs to God,
      and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
   For you will render to a man
      according to his work.
(Psalm 62:11-12 ESV)

   For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving,
      abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.
(Psalm 86:5 ESV)

   The LORD is merciful and gracious,
      slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
(Psalm 103:8 ESV)

   “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
(Malachi 3:6 ESV)

God's love is steadfast, unchanging, self-less, man's love is selfish, based on feelings, emotions, we love one hour and hate the next, hence unstable, because feelings are unstable, our love is selective and blind.

The bible does not define love, but describes love, as a action, as in, if one loves one does...keeps instructions, does good, etc:

   Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13 ESV)

Action, sacrifice, not a feeling, an emotion or words.

   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:10 ESV)

...this does not say fulfilling half or some of the law either lol

lol No matter what I am trying to say all paths lead to the law always.

Anyway, yes, there are evidence of God's love, in order to compare/contrast with man's love just look at yourself and see the difference.

Example of God's love:

   As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(John 15:9-10 ESV)

Man's love:

I love you Lord. I love you I love you I love you.
What law, don't put me under any law, it's too hard, plus it's legalism, oh, and Jesus kept it for me, I will offend Him if I try keeping it too lol *thinks of other reasons of why the law is bad* Oh yes, haven't you read Galatians? The law does not save, but I love you Lord, I love you I love you I love you.

Action vs words. Love vs emotion/feeling. Steadfast vs crazy lol

Blessings

Everhope





You go Everhope!!

You go Everhope?  I don't think so.  Please re-read post #19.  Scripture clearly shows that God through Jesus "feels" love.  Read it, and you will clearly see that "Jesus wept" for his friend, and for his two sorrowing sisters.  Did we forget that God became a man and walked this earth?  Did we forget that Jesus experienced all that we experience, and is well aware of our feelings, and our failures?  How God-dishonoring to teach differently.


Or did we forget that God is God? Or that God made man? No one said He is not aware of our feelings and failures.
Well, that is really sad IMO.
You honestly feel that all paths lead to law always?
 
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
I think when any one of us is starts patting ourselves on the back for how "right" our love for God looks, we should measure ourselves by the above standard.  Who will be first to place their child up for sacrifice to save someone here?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

To keep God's law shows our love for Him and His Word to us shows His love for us.
Man loves for selfish reasons and emotionally, flip floppy, meaning you can't count on it as Everhope said. But God loves faithfully and in truth by giving us what is BEST FOR US, without hesitation.
I admire the way you honor the Lord Everhope and I am sure He notices your desire to please Him.
I repeat:
The ultimate example of God's love is this:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 
No one is saying our fallible human love is even close to the agape love that God has and is! (God is love, after all!) Who else would offer their own child for the salvation of the world? Not me! Not you! Not Everhope!  God's love is amazing! ::clappingoverhead:: And, though we fail Him and fall short of His glory, He still proudly calls those that call upon His name His own.  ::smile::
 

I do not know what point you are trying to make here. Why was the repeating necessary? Has any one said this in not the ultimate example of God's love? Or that God's love is not amazing? This is exactly what we are discussing, the difference between our and His love. When we fall short of His glory indeed He lifts us up and carries us through, not to remain fallen (in sin) but to walk in the light (righteousness, standards, law) according to His Word:

   having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
(Colossians 2:12 ESV)

   And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
(1 Peter 5:10-11 ESV)

   Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
   
(Hebrews 13:20-21 ESV)

Hope all are well, have a blessed and peaceful day/evening  ::smile::

Everhope

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #32 on: Thu Oct 25, 2012 - 07:42:40 »
May I ask a few related questions for thought...

Is it equitable for us to say to those who would promote "following commands" out of love that they are legalistic and judgmental, while at the same time accusing those people of "forsaking commands" (like the assembly of believers), judging them as being "outside" of the body of Christ?

In this case, yes it is. Sometimes the truth is a hard truth for some.






Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #33 on: Thu Oct 25, 2012 - 07:44:22 »
So, Ever you really believe with all of your heart that God was not moved by the emotion of love, but just the action of it? That Jesus wasn't sharing the heartbreak of those that were mourning the loss of their brother and friend?
I feel really badly for you if that is the case!  God is not a stone hearted God...but a God of compassion, who catches our tears in His bottle and remembers each one.  He waits on high to have compassion, He instructs us to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice! Why would He do that, if the emotion of love wasn't important to Him?  The bible even says "See how He loved him" when people saw Him mourning.  He was moved with compassion for those that were heartbroken.
 
My point that I was making is simple.  We all love with selfish motive.  (not just those you find fault with) And, we need to show grace, because in light of God's perfect love, we all fall short.  He showers His grace and mercy (another act of love) over us daily...who are we to be tight fisted in return?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
 
 

 

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The difference between God's love and man's love
« Reply #34 on: Thu Oct 25, 2012 - 07:46:29 »
Lively asked you this a few pages back and forgive me if its been answered and I missed it:
 
Do you obey the 10 Commandments perfectly?
What happens if you break just one?