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Offline Reformer

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The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 10:37:26 »
REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
_______________________________
 
The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our
Current Kingdom

    I feel it is imperative that we examine the apostle’s remarks in detail. We’ll read them as they appear in the New International Version.

    “Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

    “According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, and are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    “After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever”
[1 Thess. 4:13-17].


    1] Paul is speaking of one event, one occurrence, one happening—not two. It all happens in instantaneous succession.

    2] A speedy return of the Lord apparently was on the minds of the Thessalonian saints, and they felt badly about those who had “fallen asleep” [died], thinking it a great loss that they were not alive to meet Jesus when He made His second advent [v.13].

   3]] When Jesus is personally revealed again, those saints who have died will be resurrected from their paradise abode and accompany Jesus as He gathers to Himself those who are still alive [v.14].

    4]] It would take a lot of theological distorting of verse 15 to make it mean something other than what Paul said. When Jesus makes His second personal advent, living saints will not go ahead of those who have fallen asleep, but “will be caught up together with them [departed saints] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”

    5]] Jesus will return from heaven for the second time with an announcement everyone will be able to hear [v.16]. The dead in Christ will be resurrected prior to meeting the Lord, and prior to living saints gathering to Him.

   6]] In verse 17, “after that” points directly to the same sequence of things, as mentioned in verse 16. In other words, living saints will be caught up with resurrected saints the moment those saints are raised. I repeat again: Only one advent is alluded to in these verses.

    Nowhere in scripture does it speak of Jesus making two personal advents, following His ascension into heaven two-thousand years ago. Nor do they speak of saints ascending into heaven twice. Saints have been reigning with Jesus in His current kingdom since He was “exalted [enthroned] to the right hand of God” [Acts 2:33-35].

    He now sits on “David’s throne” [Acts 2:30] in heaven as King over God’s new nation or kingdom, the community of the saints. Jesus’ throne in heaven typifies David’s reignship over old Israel. David reigned as king over old Israel; Jesus now reigns as King over new Israel, the family of believers.

    Paul affirms the saints at Colosse had been “rescued from the dominion [kingdom] of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of the Son He loves” [Col. 1:13]. As saints, we are in God’s kingdom today, just as the Colossians were. The eternal kingdom in heaven is an extension our of current kingdom.

    As there can be no body without a head, or a kingdom without a king, we conclude that since the believers at Colosse were citizens of God’s kingdom, Jesus must have been their King! If He is now King, and He is, why in logic’s name would He surrender his superior kingship in heaven to return to earth to become King of an inferior kingdom during an alleged thousand-year earthly reign? This would be regression, not progression.

    The Jews in Jesus’ day failed to envision His reign as spiritual because they were looking for an earthly kingdom with all of the political trimmings that accompany earthly kingdoms. Today’s earthly enthusiasts are making the same mistake. They’re looking for a “glorified kingdom” with all of the “glorified trimmings” that accompany “glorified kingdoms.”

    In the meantime, they fail to understand that such a kingdom or reign has existed since the very moment Jesus was “exalted [enthroned] to the right hand of God” [Acts 2:33]. His kingdom is not earthly, palpable, and tangible now or in the future. It is spiritual in that its King reigns from heaven and in the hearts of His subjects.
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 04, 2021 - 15:28:38 by Reformer »

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The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 10:37:26 »

Offline johntwayne

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #1 on: Fri Sep 18, 2020 - 23:16:22 »
+1 manna for an insightful, accurate post. Thank you Reformer.

Offline Reformer

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #2 on: Sat Sep 19, 2020 - 11:41:54 »

Thank you, Johntwayne.

Buff

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #2 on: Sat Sep 19, 2020 - 11:41:54 »

Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 01:39:04 »
Greetings Reformer ,
Saints have been reigning with Jesus in His current kingdom since He was “exalted [enthroned] to the right hand of God” [Acts 2:33-35]. He now sits on “David’s throne” [Acts 2:30] in heaven as King over God’s new nation or kingdom, the community of the saints. Jesus’ throne in heaven typifies David’s reignship over old Israel. David reigned as king over old Israel; Jesus now reigns as King over new Israel, the family of believers. In the meantime, they fail to understand that such a kingdom or reign has existed since the very moment Jesus was “exalted [enthroned] to the right hand of God” [Acts 2:33]. His kingdom is not earthly, palpable, and tangible now or in the future. It is spiritual in that its King reigns from heaven and in the hearts of His subjects.
This is a wrong understanding of Peter’s preaching and how Peter expounded Psalm 110:1. Jesus has been exalted to sit at the right hand of God, in Yahweh, God the Father’s throne. He is not sitting in his own throne, the Throne of David. He is yet to return to the earth to sit upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Revelation 3:20–22 (KJV): 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


Kind regards
Trevor

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 01:39:04 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 20:05:46 »

Trevor:

    I appreciate your rebuttal, but I strongly recommend you re-examine the scriptures I introduced. They are not difficult to decipher, and they do not conflict with the ones you introduced.

Kindly,

Buff

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 20:05:46 »



Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #5 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 22:17:07 »
Greetings again Buff (Reformer),
     I appreciate your rebuttal, but I strongly recommend you re-examine the scriptures I introduced. They are not difficult to decipher, and they do not conflict with the ones you introduced.
I appreciate the recommendation, but I have considered what you have posted. I cannot agree that Jesus is now sitting upon the Throne of David in heaven. He is seated at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father, in God the Father’s Throne, and this is not the Throne of David. Please reconsider the verses that I quoted, but especially the following:
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Revelation 3:20–22 (KJV): 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Kind regards
Trevor

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #5 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 22:17:07 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #6 on: Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 22:55:36 »

Trevor:

Tomorrow, I  will add a few additional comments on Acts 2:30.

Buff

Offline Reformer

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #7 on: Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 13:05:12 »
Trevor:

     Regarding Acts 2:29-30— Jesus’ throne in heaven is typical or prototypal of David’s throne. David’s throne represented and exemplified Jesus’ throne. Jesus was a descendent of David. Jesus is not sitting on “David’s throne” as such. He is now seated at the right hand of His Father.

    Jesus on “David’s throne” is a figure of speech. Jesus’s throne is likened unto David’s throne in that David ruled as king over Old Israel, Jesus is currently reigning as King over New Israel or the “house of Jacob”—the community of the redeemed [Luke 1:33].

    It is clearly obvious that Jesus is now King and seated on His throne in heaven, and has been since the birthday of New Israel, the era of grace or redeemed community. Paul simplifies this fact by writing...

    “He has delivered us from the domain [kingdom] of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins” [Col. 1:13].

    As I’ve noted previously, there cannot be a kingdom without a king. Currently, we are in the “kingdom of His beloved Son.” Our Lord is now King!

    Heaven will be an extension of our current kingdom, referred to as the “eternal kingdom.” Peter makes it clear. “For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” [2 Peter 1:11].

    I’ll rest my oars on this topic, Trevor, but please do feel free to comment on this post. I will read and evaluate what you submit.

Buff

Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #8 on: Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 15:50:13 »
Greetings again Reformer,
     It is clearly obvious that Jesus is now King and seated on His throne in heaven, and has been since the birthday of New Israel, the era of grace or redeemed community.
Jesus is not seated on his own Throne, but is seated at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father in God the Father’s Throne Psalm 110:1, Revelation 3:20-21. Jesus is to return to sit upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-4, Matthew 19:28, Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor

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Re: The Future Advent Of Jesus & Our Current Kingdom
« Reply #8 on: Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 15:50:13 »