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Author Topic: The Grace Killers  (Read 3646 times)

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Offline Jaime

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #35 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 09:43:35 »
Fulfillment means simply that Jesus paid the debt demanded by our disobedience. In doing that some aspects of the law such as those dealing with the sacrifices, etc., were made to be no longer applicable.  However, that did not affect many of the moral features of the law. 

Would "coveting" be one of those moral "features" of the written law that Jesus doesn't fulfill


Does being saved stop you from coveting?

The point is, Jimmy, that you are going to have to reconcile your belief in the continuation of the "moral features" of the law with Romans 7:6-7. Where Paul specifically lists "coveting" one of the "big ten" moral "features" of the law, as that which those in Christ have died to and been released from, "so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."


No, the point is does being saved stop you from coveting?

Concerning, Romans 7: Rom 7:12  Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Are you suggesting that what is holy, just and good have been done away with?  But here again you confuse what it means to not be under the law.  The very first of the "law" says "You shall have no other gods before Me" Exo 20:3. Should we set that one aside?  Are we no longer to observe that?  Are we now free to have other gods before God?

I think it is not me who has trouble with reconciling beliefs.


Okay Jimmy, it is obvious you have gone off on some adventure in your own mind that has little to do with what I have written, and as a result are arguing with yourself. If you want to go back and start over, actually dealing with what was written that would seem to be the only way forward.


JImmy's question is highly relevant in my mind.

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #35 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 09:43:35 »

Offline Jimmy

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #36 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 09:47:42 »
It would seem that there are some who really do not understand what the law was or is.  And anyone who does not understand the law, what it was, why it was, and what is our relationship to the law through Jesus does not understand grace.

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #36 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 09:47:42 »

Offline segell

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #37 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 10:07:24 »
Jimmy,

You would agree that one is not saved by observing the law, correct?  God's commands are holy and just and obedience should be our heart's desire.  But for what purpose?  To prove ourselves or to experience life abundantly and to have our joy made complete as Jesus told us?

The law reveals sin and our desperate need for a Savior.  Agreed?

Steve


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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #37 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 10:07:24 »

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #38 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 10:34:36 »

We write the law on our own heart? Really?



Are you unfamiliar with Psalm 119?
Quote
10  With my whole heart I seek you;
    let me not wander from your commandments!
11 I have stored up your word in my heart,
    that I might not sin against you.
12 Blessed are you, O Lord;
     teach me your statutes!

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #38 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 10:34:36 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #39 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 11:14:40 »
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We are grafted into the House of Israel and the law IS written on our hearts.


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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #39 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 11:14:40 »



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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #40 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 11:45:07 »
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We are grafted into the House of Israel and the law IS written on our hearts.



The NEW covenant law has been written on our hearts. The Mosaic law was already written on the hearts of all men (Rom. 1-2). Anyone who adds works to salvation does NOT have the new covenant law written on his heart.

thinker

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #40 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 11:45:07 »

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #41 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 12:12:44 »
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We are grafted into the House of Israel and the law IS written on our hearts.



The NEW covenant law has been written on our hearts. The Mosaic law was already written on the hearts of all men (Rom. 1-2). Anyone who adds works to salvation does NOT have the new covenant law written on his heart.

thinker

Maybe better stated....the new covenant law of Christ through the Holy Ghost living in their hearts...

thethinker

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #42 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 15:07:58 »
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We are grafted into the House of Israel and the law IS written on our hearts.



The NEW covenant law has been written on our hearts. The Mosaic law was already written on the hearts of all men (Rom. 1-2). Anyone who adds works to salvation does NOT have the new covenant law written on his heart.

thinker

Maybe better stated....the new covenant law of Christ through the Holy Ghost living in their hearts...

As long as we understand that it God's new covenant law the is written in our hearts now.

Paul told the Galatians that the first covenant was the Sinatic Law. This implies that the second (new) covenant is God's new law. It is this covenant or new law that is written on our hearts.

thinker

Offline Consumingfire

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #43 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 15:56:39 »
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We are grafted into the House of Israel and the law IS written on our hearts.



The NEW covenant law has been written on our hearts. The Mosaic law was already written on the hearts of all men (Rom. 1-2). Anyone who adds works to salvation does NOT have the new covenant law written on his heart.

thinker
You can't be serious.

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #43 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 15:56:39 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #44 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 16:15:39 »
Thinker, no one is remotely talking about adding anything to salvation. The law was not for salvation. That has been reiterated over and over again. No one is contending what you are accusing.

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #45 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 17:42:38 »
Thinker, no one is remotely talking about adding anything to salvation. The law was not for salvation. That has been reiterated over and over again. No one is contending what you are accusing.

Who did I accuse? I said that because it has been asserted by one or two here before.

BTW, were you referring to the Sinatic law when you said it IS written in our hearts? The Sinatic law had ALWAYS been written in the hearts of ALL men (Rom. 1-2).

I believe that it needed to be clarified that it is the new covenant law that is now written in the hearts of God's new covenant people.

thinker

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #46 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 18:36:37 »
No one here is asserting salvation can be earned by works. Receiving the free gift is not earning the free gift.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 21:59:30 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Grace Killers
« Reply #47 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 18:41:10 »
The Jeremiah verse I quoted was speaking of the New Covenant with the House of Israel. God's intention always has been that his law would be written on our hearts. There are other OT scriptures about God desiring even the Sinaitic covenant to be imprinted on the people's heart. God never did want robots. Specifically Deut. chapter 11, verse 18.

Deut 11:18 Therefore you shall lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul; and you shall bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for symbols between your eyes

« Last Edit: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 19:57:32 by Jaime »