Author Topic: The Judgment Seat Of Christ  (Read 3387 times)

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larry2

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The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 13:25:32 »
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« Last Edit: Fri Jun 29, 2012 - 06:50:23 by larry2 »

Offline canuck

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #1 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 13:46:29 »
A nice summary.
I have wondered though, concerning Rev. 21:4 . There will be tears in glory -- likely when we face the Lord at the judgment.
Are they tears of joy? Or are they tears of sadness for the realization that we could have served Christ better than we did?
Since they are to be wiped away, it seems logical that they could pertain to a sadness of remorse that is subsequently removed.

canuck

larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #2 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 13:52:16 »

This is not original with me, but I also believe they will realize what they missed that they could have had through a spiritual walk, but then will see those things God has prepared for them after that.

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 14:57:17 »
I believe that all of our "works" will be put to the fire, but the only "works" that will come through the fire will be the works that we did in obedience to the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 

Blessings


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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 14:57:17 »

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:00:25 »
I believe that all of our "works" will be put to the fire, but the only "works" that will come through the fire will be the works that we did in obedience to the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 

Blessings



Catholics call this process purgatory.  Do  you accept this concept, even if you might use a different word?

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:00:25 »

Offline gospel

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:01:40 »
Great post Larry2!!

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #6 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:03:43 »
I believe that all of our "works" will be put to the fire, but the only "works" that will come through the fire will be the works that we did in obedience to the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 

Blessings



Catholics call this process purgatory.  Do  you accept this concept, even if you might use a different word?

Absolutely not.

Blessings

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #7 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:04:43 »
I believe that all of our "works" will be put to the fire, but the only "works" that will come through the fire will be the works that we did in obedience to the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 

Blessings



Catholics call this process purgatory.  Do  you accept this concept, even if you might use a different word?

Absolutely not.

Blessings

How do describe the process you described?


Wednesday

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:05:43 »
I think tears of joy.  God erases the bad memories because of His forgiveness, old things are past.

good post Larry!

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:05:43 »

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 15:30:15 »
I believe that all of our "works" will be put to the fire, but the only "works" that will come through the fire will be the works that we did in obedience to the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 

Blessings



Catholics call this process purgatory.  Do  you accept this concept, even if you might use a different word?

Absolutely not.

Blessings

How do describe the process you described?



2Cr 5:10   For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

2 Cor.
14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he hiself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Rom 3:25   Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1Jo 2:2   And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

1Jo 4:10   Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation/atonement

Jesus died for our sins.  He was/is the propitiation or atonement for all sins ever committed.

From what I understand of the CC teachings of Purgatory, it is a place where one who is saved goes for temporal punishment for venial sins.

If that were true, then Christ died for nothing and/or His shed blood was not complete or enough in that we need still to be punished for our sins.

God's Word teaches us that Jesus actually took the punishment for sins that we rightly deserved upon Himself.  We are saved by grace through faith, belief in what Christ's death accomplished for us is complete within His own voluntary death.

There is nothing we can do to atone for our own sins.  Not here while on earth or most assuredly, after we die.

Christ's work on the cross is complete in and of itself.

Blessings

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #10 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 22:21:17 »
From what I understand of the CC teachings of Purgatory, it is a place where one who is saved goes for temporal punishment for venial sins.

If that were true, then Christ died for nothing and/or His shed blood was not complete or enough in that we need still to be punished for our sins.

God's Word teaches us that Jesus actually took the punishment for sins that we rightly deserved upon Himself.  We are saved by grace through faith, belief in what Christ's death accomplished for us is complete within His own voluntary death.

There is nothing we can do to atone for our own sins.  Not here while on earth or most assuredly, after we die.

Christ's work on the cross is complete in and of itself.

Blessings


Christ died to forgive our sins.  That doesn't necessarily mean we will be holy when we die.  Only the holy can see God.

The process of purgatory is the work of God's grace.  It has nothing to do with us.

daq

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #11 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 23:04:35 »
Forty Two Sense ... ::smile::

There are indeed two different Bema Seats mentioned. However, one is the Bema Seat of YHWH and the other is the Bema Seat of Christ. The Textus Receptus is not in agreement with the GNT Morph in one of those instances. However, the context of the passage makes it fairly clear that the KJV is in error concerning Romans 14:10 because the two following verses correctly translate the Theos.

Romans 14:10-12 KJV
10. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11. For it is written, As I live, saith the L-rd, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to G-d.
12. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to G-d.

Romans 14:10-12 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Greek)
10. Su de tikrineis ton adelfon sou?  E kai su ti exoutheneis tonadelfon sou?  Pantes gar parastesometha to bemati touTheou,{*}
11. gegraptai gar: "Zo ego, legei Kurios,hoti emoi kampsei pan gonu kai pasa glossaexomologesetai to Theo."
12. Ara oun hekastos hemonperi heautou logon dosei to Theo.{*}


The correct rendering of the names in Romans 14:10-12 are provided in just about all of the more modern translations, ASV, RSV, NJB, DRB, (Darby's) etc.

Romans 14:10-12 ASV
10. But thou, why dost thou judge thy brother? or thou again, why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment-seat of G-d (Theos).
11. For it is written, As I live, saith the L-rd, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to G-d (Theos).
12. So then each one of us shall give account of himself to G-d (Theos).


------------------------------

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11. Knowing therefore the terror of the L-rd, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto G-d; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 TUA
10. Tous gar pantas hemasfanerothenai dei emprosthen tou bematos tou Christou,hina komisetai hekastos ta dia tou somatos pros haepraxen, eite agathon eite faulon.{*}
11. Eidotes oun ton fobon tou Kuriou anthropouspeithomen, Theo de pefanerometha, elpizo de kai entais suneidesesin humon pefanerosthai.


The phrase "knowing therefore the TERROR" is PAST TENSE.
Paul already knew that TERROR as explained on Page 1 of this thread, (2Cor.12).

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 YGB (Youngs Literal Bible)
10. for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;
11. having known, therefore, the fear of the L-rd, we persuade men, and to G-d we are manifested, and I hope also in your consciences to have been manifested;


Abraham also knew (experienced) that Day according to the Master himself:

Genesis 15:8-18 KJV
8. And he said, L-rd G-d, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
9. And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11. And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12. And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13. And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14. And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18. In the same day the L-rd made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

John 8:55-56 KJV
55. Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.



Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #12 on: Thu May 12, 2011 - 23:44:38 »
From what I understand of the CC teachings of Purgatory, it is a place where one who is saved goes for temporal punishment for venial sins.

If that were true, then Christ died for nothing and/or His shed blood was not complete or enough in that we need still to be punished for our sins.

God's Word teaches us that Jesus actually took the punishment for sins that we rightly deserved upon Himself.  We are saved by grace through faith, belief in what Christ's death accomplished for us is complete within His own voluntary death.

There is nothing we can do to atone for our own sins.  Not here while on earth or most assuredly, after we die.

Christ's work on the cross is complete in and of itself.

Blessings


Christ died to forgive our sins.  That doesn't necessarily mean we will be holy when we die.  Only the holy can see God.

The process of purgatory is the work of God's grace.  It has nothing to do with us.


Please show me in God's Word where He tells us that we go into purgatory after our earthly death to be punished for a time for our sins.
Thank you.

From my understanding of God's Word, the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to all born again believers.  We are already justified through Christ.  Christ is the propitiation/atonement for our sins.  We are reconciled to God through Christ.

Blessings

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #13 on: Fri May 13, 2011 - 09:17:58 »
From what I understand of the CC teachings of Purgatory, it is a place where one who is saved goes for temporal punishment for venial sins.

If that were true, then Christ died for nothing and/or His shed blood was not complete or enough in that we need still to be punished for our sins.

God's Word teaches us that Jesus actually took the punishment for sins that we rightly deserved upon Himself.  We are saved by grace through faith, belief in what Christ's death accomplished for us is complete within His own voluntary death.

There is nothing we can do to atone for our own sins.  Not here while on earth or most assuredly, after we die.

Christ's work on the cross is complete in and of itself.

Blessings


Christ died to forgive our sins.  That doesn't necessarily mean we will be holy when we die.  Only the holy can see God.

The process of purgatory is the work of God's grace.  It has nothing to do with us.


Please show me in God's Word where He tells us that we go into purgatory after our earthly death to be punished for a time for our sins.
Thank you.

From my understanding of God's Word, the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to all born again believers.  We are already justified through Christ.  Christ is the propitiation/atonement for our sins.  We are reconciled to God through Christ.

Blessings


2 Cor.
14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Purgatory is the final sanctification for those who die in the grace of Jesus. 

BornToReign

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #14 on: Fri May 13, 2011 - 09:29:49 »
“Behold, I have come to do your will.

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #15 on: Fri May 13, 2011 - 10:14:35 »
“Behold, I have come to do your will.

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #16 on: Fri May 13, 2011 - 11:15:35 »
From what I understand of the CC teachings of Purgatory, it is a place where one who is saved goes for temporal punishment for venial sins.

If that were true, then Christ died for nothing and/or His shed blood was not complete or enough in that we need still to be punished for our sins.

God's Word teaches us that Jesus actually took the punishment for sins that we rightly deserved upon Himself.  We are saved by grace through faith, belief in what Christ's death accomplished for us is complete within His own voluntary death.

There is nothing we can do to atone for our own sins.  Not here while on earth or most assuredly, after we die.

Christ's work on the cross is complete in and of itself.

Blessings


Christ died to forgive our sins.  That doesn't necessarily mean we will be holy when we die.  Only the holy can see God.

The process of purgatory is the work of God's grace.  It has nothing to do with us.


Please show me in God's Word where He tells us that we go into purgatory after our earthly death to be punished for a time for our sins.
Thank you.

From my understanding of God's Word, the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to all born again believers.  We are already justified through Christ.  Christ is the propitiation/atonement for our sins.  We are reconciled to God through Christ.

Blessings


2 Cor.
14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Purgatory is the final sanctification for those who die in the grace of Jesus. 

Those verses have nothing whatsoever to do with purgatory, nor do they even imply going someplace after death to be cleaned up before going to be with the Lord.

Blessings

Offline Joyfullee

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Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #22 on: Mon May 16, 2011 - 11:55:48 »
Quote Chestertonrules:  You keep changing the subject whenever I prove you wrong.

I give up.

Purgatory is the final sanctification for the saved.

Willful sins must be confesses and forgiven.

Two separate points."
____________________________________________ ____________________________________________ ________________________________

The point being you have never proved through God's Word there is an actual and literal place called "purgatory."

Jesus died for our sins.  His blood is the cleansing blood of our sins and Him alone.

No where in all of God's Word is the teaching of "purgatory" found.  A place where people go after physical death to be cleansed or purified or sanctified.

Blessings

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #23 on: Mon May 16, 2011 - 12:07:50 »
The point being you have never proved through God's Word there is an actual and literal place called "purgatory."

Jesus died for our sins.  His blood is the cleansing blood of our sins and Him alone.

No where in all of God's Word is the teaching of "purgatory" found.  A place where people go after physical death to be cleansed or purified or sanctified.

Blessings

The Catholic Church does not teach that purgatory is a place.  I don't know why I keep needing to repeat this.  Purgatory is a process which is clearly described in scripture.


Here is the official Church teaching on purgatory:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.

Offline fish153

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #24 on: Mon May 16, 2011 - 14:26:07 »
The point being you have never proved through God's Word there is an actual and literal place called "purgatory."

Jesus died for our sins.  His blood is the cleansing blood of our sins and Him alone.

No where in all of God's Word is the teaching of "purgatory" found.  A place where people go after physical death to be cleansed or purified or sanctified.

Blessings

The Catholic Church does not teach that purgatory is a place.  I don't know why I keep needing to repeat this.  Purgatory is a process which is clearly described in scripture.


Here is the official Church teaching on purgatory:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.


"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:  
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son"
 (Col.1:11,12)

Pleaes note the past tense of the above verses.

No need for purgatory.  Jesus has already MADE US MEET to be partakers of the inheritance. The teaching of Purgatory dishonors the work of Jesus on the cross---it was a PERFECT work---the cross alone brings redemption and purifies us.

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: The Judgment Seat Of Christ
« Reply #25 on: Mon May 16, 2011 - 17:17:37 »
The point being you have never proved through God's Word there is an actual and literal place called "purgatory."

Jesus died for our sins.  His blood is the cleansing blood of our sins and Him alone.

No where in all of God's Word is the teaching of "purgatory" found.  A place where people go after physical death to be cleansed or purified or sanctified.

Blessings

The Catholic Church does not teach that purgatory is a place.  I don't know why I keep needing to repeat this.  Purgatory is a process which is clearly described in scripture.


Here is the official Church teaching on purgatory:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.


There is absolutely nothing in God's Word to support that.  Nothing.

1Jo 3:2   Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Blessings.

 

     
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