Author Topic: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !  (Read 1253 times)

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Online DaveW

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #35 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 07:47:08 »
DaveW I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm telling you the truth. When you pick and chose words from different bibles, concordances or lexicons you're not gaining more understanding, your mixing truth with fact. Like I said on my original post on this thread, your definition of everything biblical will be completely different than a person who believes every word exactly as written. Common sense says that's true.

The cult I was talking about is that cult that teaches God's innerant word is only found in the originals.
"Every word as written" or "every word as translated?" The only thing "written" was the ortginals.  Everything else is translated.

GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH. Period.

And why do you call that a "cult?"  Do you know what a cult actually is?

Have you heard of the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy? (original archived at Dallas Theological)

https://library.dts.edu/Pages/TL/Special/ICBI_1.pdf
https://www.moodybible.org/beliefs/the-chicago-statement-on-biblical-inerrancy/


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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #35 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 07:47:08 »

Offline Rob

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #36 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 08:21:06 »
"Every word as written" or "every word as translated?" The only thing "written" was the ortginals.  Everything else is translated.

GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH. Period.

And why do you call that a "cult?"  Do you know what a cult actually is?

Have you heard of the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy? (original archived at Dallas Theological)

https://library.dts.edu/Pages/TL/Special/ICBI_1.pdf
https://www.moodybible.org/beliefs/the-chicago-statement-on-biblical-inerrancy/
Where do you get the doctrine of God isn't capable of translating his word into other languages?

What is a cult? A cult follows a particular figure or object. The object of this cult is a bunch of contradictory copies of what some people think is the original manuscripts.

Have I heard of the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy? No but I went to the site you posted and looked at. What was I supposed to get out of their statement?

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #37 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 08:37:06 »
Any bible that isn’t inspired by God is a corruption of the word of God. Without inspiration a Bible is just some translators best effort of wading through some other mans opinion of what a word originally meant in a language that’s been dead for 2000 years. Wouldn’t you agree?



Then by your understanding unless you are reading the original pages in Koine Greek that were hand wriiten by the authors we have been told were inspired by God we are basically wasting our time?

I would submit to you that even, as Dave suggested, you did have a graduate degree in Koine Greek... it could not be trusted
simply because to understand and learn a different language you would know that the teacher of such may or maynot be teaching a correct translation as all translations vary.

And that is because people read things differently even from the one sitting next to them.

I have a lot... A WHOLE LOT.... of issues with KJV. But my issues are not because I have found a translation I like any better.
I quote KJV for simplicity, and often refer to ancient Greek or Aramaic. People know KJ. Even though my personal belief is King James men did a little rewording of the Geneva bible throughout too much of it.

Everyone on here has their choice for reading.

And everyone on here has their opportunity to search much older translations then KJV, right here on line. Just do a search.

Languages change over time. But core meaning does not.
 
Take England English and American English

England calls it a lift.... Americans call it an elevator.  Totally different words but mean the same thing.

England calls it a lorry ... Americans call it a truck. Again totally different words that mean the same thing.

BTW  the word "truck" comes from the Greek word "trochos" which means "wheel".

Obvious mistakes should be noted as seen.

Your comments in you quote put me in mind of Mel Gibson, who after having produced the movie "The Passion of the Christ"
which was not made in English and used closed captioning to explain what was going on and what was being said. (IN Aramaic)
Then after it was released went on to try to get the Roman Catholic church to stop having Mass in English or any other language but to put it world wide back into Aramaic. Because it is his belief that that is the only correct language.

Your
Quote
If I did that I would be as biblically illiterate as you are... I don't think so,. I CAME OUT of your cult years ago.

Which cult would that be.... there are so many. The cult of believers in Christ? The cult of believers who read the Holy Words and use them as their handbook and guide on how to live.... just what cult would that be?

Here is a challenge for you.

Mark 16: 9 - 20 was not written with the rest of Mark that originally ended with Mark 16:8.

Mark 16:9-20 includes the disputed longer ending of Mark that is included in later Greek manuscripts yet is missing from earlier ones, including Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

Later Greek Manuscripts. LATER GREEK, not English and not early Greek.

So,fit that into your mindset and tell us if we should not be reading the bible at all.

Is it just possible that God does want us confused and confounded  and just running around on faith handed down through the ages, word of mouth?

If we cannot trust the translations down through the ages. And even the earliest of the later Greek one that started to embellish, then maybe that is so. Man did screw it up unifying at the Tower of Babel. You know how well that turned out.
All the varied languages and such..... Could be God wants us still not not be as one cause when we do that usually something dastardly happens.

Just something to think about.








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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #37 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 08:37:06 »

Online DaveW

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #38 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 09:39:48 »
Where do you get the doctrine of God isn't capable of translating his word into other languages?
There is nothing in the text of scripture to indicate other languages are acceptable.
Quote
What is a cult? A cult follows a particular figure or object. The object of this cult is a bunch of contradictory copies of what some people think is the original manuscripts.
There are 2 kinds of cults - the cult of personality that follows a person. (not an object) That person (like Sun Myung Moon or David Koresh) interprets everything for the followers, and can lead to incidents like Jonestown where everyone committed suicide.

The other kind is based on the meaning of the word cult which comes from the Latin cultus meaning "hidden."  That kind of cult has hidden doctrines and/or practices that are only revealed to the members.  Like the rites of the FreeMasons.


Quote
Have I heard of the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy? No but I went to the site you posted and looked at. What was I supposed to get out of their statement?
That almost every evangelical denomination agrees with its position.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #38 on: Mon May 11, 2020 - 09:39:48 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #39 on: Tue May 12, 2020 - 23:56:09 »
I would submit to you that even, as Dave suggested, you did have a graduate degree in Koine Greek... it could not be trusted
simply because to understand and learn a different language you would know that the teacher of such may or maynot be teaching a correct translation as all translations vary.
If you study Classical Greek, they don't teach you a certain translation of the Bible.  They teach you the language, and primarily from the works of Greek philosophers as Aristotle and Plato, which is in the Attic dialect - that spoken at Athens in the heart of Greece.  That isn't great for translating the Bible, because while the Bible is written in common Greek, it is written using regional dialects heavily influenced by Aramaic, and 300-400 years later than the Classical philosophers. 

New Testament word usage is often different from Classical Attic Greek, and instead follows the usage in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament), which is itself a sprawling mess of manuscripts from an even earlier period.  Basically, the NT writers thought in a Semitic language and were themselves translating it into Greek (or using a Scribe who did) for the reader.

If you want to understand the Bible in its original language, Classical Greek isn't sufficient.  You'll need an encyclopedic knowledge of the Septuagint, and that's probably a doctorate that comes AFTER your graduate degree and perhaps requires some background in Hebrew or Ancient Near East studies, as well as the Greek.

Or….

You could just use Thayer's Lexicon.  Thayer had all those accreditations and then some, and devoted 30 years to creating a reference manual to allow the rest-of-us to get at the meaning of the Biblical words (and which was itself built on the life's work of two fellows you came before him).  Thayer's will not only give you basic meaning, but also give you the references for every usage of the word in the Bible... AND the Septuagint... AND the Hebrew word behind the Greek word in the Septuagint... AND all the usages in Greek literature contemporary to the Bible... AND in the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha.  And it will examine the use of the word in different declensions, and note other words that modify the meaning of the word in common usage when they are combined.

It isn't the easiest reference to use, but it's comprehensive.  It's the best tool for studying the Bible by a country mile.

Jarrod

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #39 on: Tue May 12, 2020 - 23:56:09 »



Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #40 on: Wed May 13, 2020 - 00:02:59 »
I sense that you don't agree BY the comments you made.
I sense that you don't agree THROUGH the comments you made.

Do you see the difference in the two examples I just gave?
I do.

But I submit to you that someone from 17th century England... would not.  The word "by" in that time period and at that place held a different meaning than it does to us today.

Do you wish to hold the position that English words haven't changed meaning at all in the past 400 years?  That is nonsense.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #40 on: Wed May 13, 2020 - 00:02:59 »

Online Rella

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #41 on: Thu May 14, 2020 - 08:25:24 »
If you study Classical Greek, they don't teach you a certain translation of the Bible.  They teach you the language, and primarily from the works of Greek philosophers as Aristotle and Plato, which is in the Attic dialect - that spoken at Athens in the heart of Greece.  That isn't great for translating the Bible, because while the Bible is written in common Greek, it is written using regional dialects heavily influenced by Aramaic, and 300-400 years later than the Classical philosophers. 

New Testament word usage is often different from Classical Attic Greek, and instead follows the usage in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament), which is itself a sprawling mess of manuscripts from an even earlier period.  Basically, the NT writers thought in a Semitic language and were themselves translating it into Greek (or using a Scribe who did) for the reader.

If you want to understand the Bible in its original language, Classical Greek isn't sufficient.  You'll need an encyclopedic knowledge of the Septuagint, and that's probably a doctorate that comes AFTER your graduate degree and perhaps requires some background in Hebrew or Ancient Near East studies, as well as the Greek.

Or….

You could just use Thayer's Lexicon.  Thayer had all those accreditations and then some, and devoted 30 years to creating a reference manual to allow the rest-of-us to get at the meaning of the Biblical words (and which was itself built on the life's work of two fellows you came before him).  Thayer's will not only give you basic meaning, but also give you the references for every usage of the word in the Bible... AND the Septuagint... AND the Hebrew word behind the Greek word in the Septuagint... AND all the usages in Greek literature contemporary to the Bible... AND in the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha.  And it will examine the use of the word in different declensions, and note other words that modify the meaning of the word in common usage when they are combined.

It isn't the easiest reference to use, but it's comprehensive.  It's the best tool for studying the Bible by a country mile.

Jarrod

 Exactly.

But we have only the translations of any ancient language to read. Even of those who have studies such languages , which would be by the translations of earlier men who translated as they understood things, to go by. And they DO NOT always agree.

There are none of us who lived back in the 1st century who would have had the understanding of the languages.
But the hope is that if there are 2 or 3 translations saying the same, we can fairly assume accuracy?

So, unless we forgo the reading of God's holy words altogether then we have to be prepared when someone comes forward and challenges us on a given translation such as King James.

There is nothing wrong with those challenges.

Every thing I have looked into in older biblical manuscript there will be differences in translations.

Heck... The Geneva bible has an issue or two with different printings in different years.

And so does the Greek interlinear that I often quote from for there are other interlinear that are not identical.

That is why saying I am saying KJV only is pretty nuts IMHO.

I am not putting it down. Heck it is the only bible I had when I started to read it from Genesis on....

But I know better now and I look at others. NOT at commentator statements but what the actual printed word says... and I always go back to my ancient Greek copies and whatever else was written closer to that time.






Online DaveW

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #42 on: Thu May 14, 2020 - 09:33:03 »
There are none of us who lived back in the 1st century who would have had the understanding of the languages.
But the hope is that if there are 2 or 3 translations saying the same, we can fairly assume accuracy?

So, unless we forgo the reading of God's holy words altogether then we have to be prepared when someone comes forward and challenges us on a given translation such as King James.

There is nothing wrong with those challenges.
One thing to remember -  the writers of both testaments were Jews immersed in Jewish culture. (possible exception: Luke) So even if they were not writing in Hebrew/Aramaic, they were thinking in it.   The fact is that the Peshita (Aramaic NT) contains so many "Semitisms" (word plays inherent to Hebrew/Aramaic) that it could not possibly have been translated backward from Greek. Somewhere out there there were Semitic language versions of almost every NT book.   And the nice thing is that much or most of 2nd Temple Judaic culture and thought have been preserved in the Talmuds and other writings.

I believe it is for this very reason Paul wrote this:

Rom 3:1  Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #43 on: Thu May 14, 2020 - 17:41:27 »
That is why saying I am saying KJV only is pretty nuts IMHO.

I am not putting it down. Heck it is the only bible I had when I started to read it from Genesis on....

But I know better now and I look at others. NOT at commentator statements but what the actual printed word says... and I always go back to my ancient Greek copies and whatever else was written closer to that time.
Me too.  The King James was my first Bible, and remains my favorite Bible. 

It is not without its issues... the main one being that King James English is basically a foreign language compared to modern English.  But I am already familiar with its issues, and I am already fluent in King-James-ese.

It's a good Bible.  Just don't try to read it as though it's modern English.  It isn't.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #43 on: Thu May 14, 2020 - 17:41:27 »

Offline robycop3

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #44 on: Sat May 16, 2020 - 09:26:40 »
  I apply the "Model T principle".

  The Model T (1909-1927) was the best American car of its time, & was made for the American roads of that time, which were largely unpaved wagon trails. However, roads were mimproved, & other automakers developed better tech, so the Model T fell behind times, & was replaced by the Model A, which was better-suited for the roads of its day.

  The KJV was the best Bible version available to 17th C. British, but time marched on & the language changed, as well as previously-unknown ancient Scriptural mss. being found, & better translation tools were made. Thus, the KJV was supplanted by better translations in modern language.

  The KJVO myth is entirely man-made, from imagination, conjecture, misinfo, & guesswork. It has NO Scriptural suppoer, which automatically makes it false.

  Sportzz Fanzz, please don't believe anyone who says the KJV is the only valid English Bible translation, as that's a patent LIE !

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #45 on: Mon May 18, 2020 - 06:14:33 »
Me too.  The King James was my first Bible, and remains my favorite Bible. 

It is not without its issues... the main one being that King James English is basically a foreign language compared to modern English.  But I am already familiar with its issues, and I am already fluent in King-James-ese.

It's a good Bible.  Just don't try to read it as though it's modern English.  It isn't.

Jarrod
I wish this forum had a "like" button.  I would hit it a dozen times on that one.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #46 on: Mon May 18, 2020 - 22:04:59 »
   

  Click here for Like.  There ya go Dave.  I will hit it for both of us.  “LIKE”

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #47 on: Tue May 19, 2020 - 07:01:25 »
   

  Click here for Like.  There ya go Dave.  I will hit it for both of us.  “LIKE”

I have always used a +1 elsewhere for showing I like a post.

Here, you can +1 then add manna. Is a good way to show approval and how many do.

Offline Johnb

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #48 on: Tue May 19, 2020 - 07:13:04 »
Rella yes I have also but thought a +2 might be confusing

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #49 on: Tue May 19, 2020 - 10:31:12 »
Rella yes I have also but thought a +2 might be confusing

Yes, especially when you have to wait between adding manna. I agree

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #50 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 14:59:50 »
Any bible that isn’t inspired by God is a corruption of the word of God. Without inspiration a Bible is just some translators best effort of wading through some other mans opinion of what a word originally meant in a language that’s been dead for 2000 years. Wouldn’t you agree?

  There are many words & phrases in the original Scriptural languages that have several meanings in English, which are not always dictated by context. And many English words have changed meanings since the KJV was made. For instance, "conversation" useta mean "lifestyle". "Furniture" meant the trappings of a horse. "Corn" meant any grain, & "meat" meant any food. So, the KJV is full of dead language. It's a 'Model T' Bible version.

  And God caused men to make translations of His word, but didn't make those men to be error-free. ALL Bible translations are the products of God's perfect word being handled by imperfect men, and GOD IS NOT LIMITED to any one of them in any language.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #51 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 11:57:59 »
  I see the KJVOs won't try to defend their myth here, so they lose by default.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #52 on: Mon Jun 01, 2020 - 07:22:32 »
  There are many words & phrases in the original Scriptural languages that have several meanings in English, which are not always dictated by context.
True. And there is the problem of Semitic languages that even the NT authors ran into: Semitic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, etc) INHERENTLY have multiple levels of meanings.  It is natively built into the structure of the language itself and makes any kind of translation very problematic.  It is why those who embrace Islam MUST learn to read Arabic. Arabic has 7 different levels of meaning and all are simultaneously true.

Biblical Hebrew has at least 4 recognized levels of meanings: Peshat (plain meaning) Remez (hinted at) Drash (a teaching) and Sod (mystical meaning). There is no way to structure a translation that adequately reflects all of those differing meanings.  I believe there is also a 5th level which rests in the pictographic letter symbols of the original Paleo-Hebrew.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #53 on: Sat Jun 20, 2020 - 14:16:33 »
this topic is the twitterings of fools.

KJV has Creation, Fall,
Nephilim, Flood, Prophets, Ten Tribes travelling west, Jesus, Jews killing him, Paul trying to keep small congregations pure,  Revelation.

It sure beats anything the Jews, JWs, Catholics have to offer.
 

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #54 on: Sat Jun 20, 2020 - 14:41:01 »
this topic is the twitterings of fools.

KJV has Creation, Fall,
Nephilim, Flood, Prophets, Ten Tribes travelling west, Jesus, Jews killing him, Paul trying to keep small congregations pure,  Revelation.

It sure beats anything the Jews, JWs, Catholics have to offer.

Why is Easter the appropriate word in Acts 12: 4?

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #55 on: Sat Jun 20, 2020 - 15:30:28 »
Why is Easter the appropriate word in Acts 12: 4?
Only ONCE will I attempt to speak with you on this subject after that I'm finished.

                                                                                                               “Easter” in Acts 12:4
Quote
Acts 12:1-4~"Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people."
Sadly, many are amused or confused by the use of “Easter” in Acts 12:4, and others gloat about it, (like you) because they want to find fault with the King James Bible.

They may accuse the King James translators of a mistranslation, especially if they know the underlying Greek word is pascha, for Passover. They may conclude that Herod Agrippa I celebrated pagan Easter. They may twist scripture to make Passover and the feast of unleavened bread two different things.

“Easter” in Acts 12:4 is Passover, which is the feast of unleavened bread, clearly identified in the context (Acts 12:3). This is simple enough by reading the passage, but especially if it is known that Passover and unleavened bread are the same feast and/or that Easter in English and European languages can easily mean Passover.

In English and the languages of Europe … Easter = Passover … if not as the first or primary definition, it is as a secondary and significant definition.

The English word “Easter” means the spring Christian festival to commemorate the resurrection of Christ in timing with the spring Jewish celebration of Passover.

Here is part of the entry for “Easter” in the Oxford English Dictionary, which is the standard of the English language:

Easter. 1. One of the great festivals of the Christian Church, commemorating the resurrection of Christ, and corresponding to the Jewish Passover, the name of which it bears in most of the European languages. 2. The Jewish Passover.

When quoting a source for an example of definition 2, the OED quoted Acts 12:4 in the King James Bible.

The Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread are synonyms in the Bible unless context distinguishes the Passover lamb or supper from the week-long celebration.

Ezekiel 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

There are other similar verses showing the names as synonyms for the same feast.

These verses show that the Passover and feast of unleavened bread are synonyms, when there is no context limiting either one of them, as is the case in Acts 12:3-4.

It is clear in Acts 12:3-4 by reading the verses together that “days of unleavened bread” (12:3) is the same as “Easter” (12:4). There is no reason to seek any other explanation, especially once the facts listed above about English usage of “Easter” and the Bible use of Passover terms as synonyms are understood.

The King James Version is perfectly accurate and consistent for readers that will check the context, confirm Bible use of terms, and check the meaning of the English word “Easter.”

Checking the underlying Greek word pascha is further confirmation to some, but provides no additional proof for those trusting the English words of the KJV.

It should be obvious that Herod was not waiting for the Jews to finish the pagan celebration of Astarte’s Day or the celebration of the Christian Easter Sunday.

He was waiting for the seven-day feast of Passover to end so that his murder of Peter would not draw as much political or social opposition from the Jews, whom he sought to further please after having killed James.

Let all amusement or confusion about Acts 12:4 end.

Let all criticism of the English King James Bible and its translators end.

Let all wresting of scripture to make Passover and the feast of unleavened bread separate things end.

I WILL trust the King James Version perfectly~ there are no other options as trustworthy – God has stamped the KJV with His approval by 400+ years of spiritual fruit and all the internal and external measures of His divine revelation.


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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #56 on: Sat Jun 20, 2020 - 16:12:54 »
Why is Easter the appropriate word in Acts 12: 4?
I'm neither Jew, Catholic, Gentile nor False Christian so I couldn't care less about a word you are getting your panties in a twist about.
However I do take care not to fall foul of Acts 15:9:

In context, Peter plainly states:

"He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Now, therefore, why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are," (Acts 15:9-11).

Peter makes it clear that the Gentiles were cleansed by faith. They were saved immediately upon believing and apart from any works.
Jews are not saved because they deny Jesus, catholics are not becauise they worship idols, JWs because they worship graven images, Muslims ditto, etc etc.

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #57 on: Sat Jun 20, 2020 - 23:57:16 »
True. And there is the problem of Semitic languages that even the NT authors ran into: Semitic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, etc) INHERENTLY have multiple levels of meanings.  It is natively built into the structure of the language itself and makes any kind of translation very problematic.

Biblical Hebrew has at least 4 recognized levels of meanings: Peshat (plain meaning) Remez (hinted at) Drash (a teaching) and Sod (mystical meaning). There is no way to structure a translation that adequately reflects all of those differing meanings.  I believe there is also a 5th level which rests in the pictographic letter symbols of the original Paleo-Hebrew.
My turn to +1. 

I feel like no matter how I try to explain this, it can't be understood until the reader has done some study on the subject.  You have to see it to believe it, truly.

That "5th level" is the key.  When you can see the (3-logogram) Hebrew roots as if they were pictures, rather than phonetic, then all the potential meanings derive from it.

Not to say that I can consistently do that... there are probably a dozen Hebrew roots for which I feel I have that mastery, which leaves me about 8000 to go...

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Re: The KJVO myth - Phony as a Ford Corvette !
« Reply #58 on: Sun Jun 21, 2020 - 08:29:02 »
I'm neither Jew, Catholic, Gentile nor False Christian so I couldn't care less about a word you are getting your panties in a twist about.
However I do take care not to fall foul of Acts 15:9:

In context, Peter plainly states:

"He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Now, therefore, why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are," (Acts 15:9-11).

Peter makes it clear that the Gentiles were cleansed by faith. They were saved immediately upon believing and apart from any works.
Jews are not saved because they deny Jesus, catholics are not becauise they worship idols, JWs because they worship graven images, Muslims ditto, etc etc.

And Mark 16:16 He who believes AND  is baptised will be saved.

I would not say you are a false Christian.... I would leave the Christian off that nomenclature.

YOU are the one who was touting KJV or NKJV yesterday. But now you do not care that there is something wrong with
putting Easter in where when originally written in the Greek they were only talking about Passover?t...

As far as me getting my panties in a knot... that wont hurt as bad as you getting your shorts in a knot, especially when yours
seem to be made of clay.


 

     
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