What is "Pilgrim's Progress"?


How does any of this prove that the Law of Moses is in effect today?  That is kind of like saying that since the Jews continued to offer animal sacrifices after the cross of Christ then that proves the sacrifices were still valid.


That is not the only reason for the Law of Moses.  It also had a purpose that was fulfilled with the coming of Christ.  Christ then did away with it on the cross.


That is your opinion. 

Amo,

I see a whole lot of quoting from the Law of Moses in an attempt to tell people today to obey the Law of Moses.  Going back to my cheesy illustration in my just above post, that is like being in the New Company but trying to go back to the laws of the Old to try and convince the employees to obey the laws of the Old.

Other than that, you have quoted from some verses in the New Testament that have nothing to say about the validity of the Law of Moses for Christians to follow (such as Romans 7:12-14) and then you have quoted from still other passages in the New Testament that say "commandments" but are not talking about the Law of Moses at all (such as John 15:10).

I hear ya soterion. That is the same thing I have noticed also. Many realize that the old covenant had some of the same commands that is present in the new. What the problem is though is that we are not wording our thoughts correctly. While it is true that each covenant has some of the same commands they are yet two totally separate covenants. Law commands covenant are basically all the same thing just different words to convey such. It is totally against the teaching of the new to try and say we are still to hold to the old. Hebrews does a great job of teaching that.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Heb 8:6-13 (KJV)

Two covenants can not stand together. You can not be under both. You must choose one to enter into. In this case you only have one correct choice for one has replaced the other. Even though both may contain some of the same commands they are still separate and one is in force while the other was replaced. The new was made better so why do we need the old.

It is simply a question of which covenant are you in with God. The one he removed or the one he replaced it with.

He told the woman caught in the act of adultery to go and sin no more.

I am sorry, that you are under the delusion, that because you say the law of Moses and the ten commandments of God are the same thing, that makes it so.  The testimony of scripture does not support your theory.  If you think it will be a small thing in the day of judgment to stand before God and tell Him why you refused to acknowledge that which He spoke with His own mouth, wrote with His own finger, twice, and repeatedly called His, you have made a mere man the author of.  To take the words of God Himself, and teach that they are the words of a mere man, will not be taken lightly in the judgment.  Please reconsider.  This is not just some petty argument about who is right or wrong, this is about the correct handling, or abuse of the word of God.  The consequences are most certainly eternal.

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The old and new covenants are both parts of God's everlasting covenant.  Submission to the authority of God, which our first parents disregarded, is a central point of both.  There were no new commandments written by Jesus or the apostles, and we are certainly not left to ourselves to figure out what they might be.  There were no scriptures but the old testament scriptures in the days of the apostles, and when they spoke of the commandments, everyone knew they spoke of the ten commandments of God.  Do not commit the sin of presumption my friend, in thinking that you or anyone else can change the desired effect of words which came directly from the mouth of God to humanity, and were written with God's own finger upon tables of stone for the same.  

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

We know what the commandments of God are.  As I have shown you, he called the ten commandments His own repeatedly in the scriptures.  He did not refer to them as the law of Moses, but as my commandments.  All the Christians of Johns day knew this also, since the only scriptures they had were the old testament scriptures which testify of these things, and the letters and writings of the apostles which had not yet been made into new testament scriptures.  You are simply siding with the dragon on this one, and making war with the remnant of the Churches seed, "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

soterion---

"Pilgrim's Progress" is a very famous allegory written by John Bunyan back in the late 1500's.  It is the story of a man on his way to the Celestial City.  I just gave it as an example, as it is a reflection of how a person becomes convicted, comes to Christ and begins his journey to Heaven.  It is a very famous book----you should read it sometime.

Read Romans 3 in regards to the Law.  Read verse 31.  Christ did not "do away" with the Law----he fulfilled it.  The Law is still in effect---in fact, many at the Great White throne will be judged BY IT---as they did not accept the righteousness in Christ, but went about trying to establish their own righteousness, or ignored the call altogether.   The Law is in effect to drive us to Christ.  Once we accept and become "IN CHRIST" we are free from the guilt of sin and the judgment of the Law----but those who have not accepted Christ are still subject to it.

Assuming that statement is reliably in the text...

I wouldn't read it as a command, rather as a recognition that because Jesus didn't condemn her she was free and enabled to not return to that sin bondage.

It's indicative of a "law man" perspective to read that statement as a command.  Ever heard it said, "We preach the Gospel to alien sinners, then when they're converted we then preach the law."?


V

It is not because I say so.  It is because Scripture says so.  Read the OP.

You want to make a division in the Law of Moses that God does not make.