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Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #35 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 07:34:42 »
The first resurrection secures our spiritual rebirth 
You almost have it but not quite.  What is that old saying?  "Close but no cigar" ! !  The first resurrection IS our spiritual rebirth.  The first resurrection is not Jesus' being raised from the physically dead.  The first resurrection is our being raised from the spiritually dead.

As you noted, John 5:28-29 is the second resurrection.  But then you have missed the significance of the first resurrection given by Jesus in John 5:24-25.  Just as the second resurrection in verses 28-29 concerns the individuals, so also the first resurrection in verses 24-25 concerns the individuals.  All experience the second resurrection but only those who hear and believe experience the first resurrection.  The first resurrection describes the one who "does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life".  This is not a description of Jesus' resurrection, but rather the [spiritual] resurrection of the one who hears and believes.

In Colossians 1:18 Paul there is speaking about the second resurrection.  Christ is the firstborn of the second resurrection.  Christ is not the firstborn of the first resurrection simply because He was never reborn; He was never dead in trespass or sins and therefore never needed to be reborn.

You said,
Quote from: RB
..... when we as members of HIS BODY, were resurrected with him....
Again that is not right and gets distorted by your Reformed Theology.  It is not the members of his body that then become resurrected;  rather it is those who are resurrected; those who are born again who then become members of his body.  It is not those who are the elect who then become resurrected, i.e., reborn; rather it is those who are reborn, i.e., experience the first resurrection, who become the elect, the chosen of God.

But aside from that mistake and misinterpretation, you have it about right.  The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is the spiritual rebirth; the second resurrection of Revelation 20 is the rise from the dead at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #35 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 07:34:42 »

Online GB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #36 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 11:22:46 »
::announcment:: To GB: I would like for you to come here on this thread and prove my doctrine wrong and yours not being the religion of Mystery Babylon...the religion of this world. Were are you? Let us see WHO truly has the religion of this world and who are those faithful saints contending for the faith once delivered unto the saints of God. Better yet, just confess that you truly do not have any biblical answers to these posts, and that you need more time to reconsider your errors. That would go a long way for you to see these blessed truths. That would indeed be wonderful if you had that spirit in you, other than what I have seen thus far. RB

I've been busy so I haven't been on this forum for a few days. I noticed no one addressed my questions or points on my last post. Not much use in discussing scriptures if all I get in reply is ridicule.

I don't shop for a Theologian which most closely reflects my religion, then study his works. The Theologians of the world today are as many as there are different churches. They all promote a different religion but They all have one thing in common. They all promote religious doctrines and traditions which transgress God's Commandments. I find that fact very revealing, and certainly in line with all the warnings Jesus and His People gave regarding Many "Christians" who come in His Name, and deceive many.

So you can try and link my understanding with this theologian or that, but it is a lie and a deception to do so as my understanding doesn't come from "Theologians" like it does with you and "many" others, rather, from studying and "doing" as the scriptures teach.

So much of my disagreement with your religion is that you preach one thing, while the Bible teaches another. I have demonstrated this many times and I will do so again today.

Jesus says;

Matt. 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


But you don't have to endure to the end. In your Religion, the Resurrection is already past. You have already been presented with eternal life and are already reigning with Christ in heaven.

1 Tim. 6:14
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15
Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

"until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ"

So Paul was still waiting either for his death, or the return of Jesus and is telling Timothy and me to keep the Commandment "without spot" until His Appearing which has not yet happened, at least for Timothy and Paul.

According to Paul, Jesus alone has eternal life that no man can even see. That is why it is called "FAITH", because men are to trust God that He will raise them from the dead, if they are already raised, where does Faith come in?.

But in your religion, He has already come back and already given the gift of eternal life to you, and others who follow your favorite "Theologian".

The bible says:

1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

You and your "theologians" preach that this happened when Jesus rose from the dead. That satan is bound, cast into a bottomless pit, and is no longer deceiving the nations.

But as I pointed out before, there is not one mention of this by Jesus or His Apostles. In fact, they all preach just the opposite.

2 Cor. 11:12
But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14
And no marvel; for "Satan himself" is transformed into an angel of light.
15
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Eph. 6:11
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the "wiles of the devil".
12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Who is the "Ruler of Darkness" that the apostles were still having to resist? Is it the same satan that you preach is "bound", Cast in a bottomless pit, with God's Seal on him so he can't deceive the nations anymore?

I could go one and one to show that my disagreement with your religion has nothing to do with this "Theologian" or that Theologian", but my disagreement comes from the contradiction between what you preach, and what the scriptures actually say.

Why would Jesus lock satan up and not tell His Apostles?

If you have already been judged as righteous and have already been gifted with eternal life, then why all the warnings?

Rom. 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue in his goodness": otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in my word", then are ye my disciples indeed;
32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

1 Cor.10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12
Wherefore let him that "thinketh he standeth" take heed "lest he fall."

I know you will reject this line of reasoning, as Jesus said; "If you don't believe Moses and the Prophets, neither will you be persuaded though ONE rose from the dead. If you believed in the Christ of the Bible, and understood His Feasts that He gave us to show His Salvation plan, then you could understand Revelation.

In closing, what spirit would want you to think "Peace, Peace, in an evil time like today? What spirit would want to convince you "You shall surely not die".

So a man goes through this life trusting this "Theologian" or that, is convinced like Eve that they will "Surely not die". Then they awake upon the second resurrection believing they were already gifted with eternal life, they see the Lake of Fire, and they see the "Dead in Christ" like Abraham and Lazarus afar off and realize they trusted the wrong voice. But it's too late.

The questions I ask are important, given the seriousness of the topic. It's not about you or me being right or wrong, it's about "taking Heed" that were are not influenced by a satan that some religions preach can't deceive anymore.

























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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #36 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 11:22:46 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #37 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 11:36:33 »
That is really some of the worst interpretation of the Bible that you can come across.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #37 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 11:36:33 »

Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #38 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 16:27:10 »
I've been busy so I haven't been on this forum for a few days. I noticed no one addressed my questions or points on my last post. Not much use in discussing scriptures if all I get in reply is ridicule.
GB, put your big boys pants on and realize that you are not in a conversation with your grandmother, but with men who are very animated and aggressive about defending the scriptures just as you want others to believe about you~ such things come with this territory; it gets hot at times, and if one is not made for this, then I would suggest they find another way of teachings the truth instead of entering into the lions den on open Christian forums. This is not for the faint in heart, or for those whose feelings are easily offended.
Quote from: GB Reply #36 on: Today at 11:22:46
I don't shop for a Theologian which most closely reflects my religion, then study his works. The Theologians of the world today are as many as there are different churches. They all promote a different religion but They all have one thing in common. They all promote religious doctrines and traditions which transgress God's Commandments. I find that fact very revealing, and certainly in line with all the warnings Jesus and His People gave regarding Many "Christians" who come in His Name, and deceive many.
I'm "opened" of trying the spirits, to see if they are of God, or not, yet I test all by the word of God according to the light which God has been pleased to give to me. I'm not too much into modern theologians but do have much respect for many men of the past, mainly before 1800. But, that is neither here, or there, it's about what our generation in which we both live and our understanding of God's word. But, that being said, I for one do not desire to remove the ancient Landmarks of our forefather!
Quote from: The Wise man
Proverbs 22:28~"Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set."
When it comes to worshipping God, we are bound to observe the ancient landmarks of Scripture and apostolic tradition (Deuteronomy 5:32; 12:32; Psalms 119:128; Isaiah 8:20; Romans 16:17-18; 2nd Corinthians 11:3-4; Galatians 1:6-9; 2nd Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6; 1st Timothy 6:3-5; 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,16-17; 4:3-4; Titus 3:10-11; Ist John 4:1-6). We have no right to accept new doctrines, neglect old doctrines, invent new forms of worship, modify existing ones, etc.
Quote from: GB Reply #36 on: Today at 11:22:46
So you can try and link my understanding with this theologian or that, but it is a lie and a deception to do so as my understanding doesn't come from "Theologians" as it does with you and "many" others, rather, from studying and "doing" as the scriptures teach.
First, your eschatology certainly is modern-day teaching of the Premillenist and you know that is is so. Which doctrine is not necessarily tied into any particular sect for many different sects hold to that unscriptural and Christ dishonoring teaching.

Secondly, you have not even attempted to prove that my understanding is from modern-day theologians, for it is not and maybe that's why you have not tried as of yet.  But, I would like to think that there are others who hold to the same teachings that I do (well, I know there are some) and that I was NOT on an island by myself, for then It would be a very concern on my part if that were so and rightly so.
Quote from: GB  Reply #36 on: Today at 11:22:46
So much of my disagreement with your religion is that you preach one thing, while the Bible teaches another. I have demonstrated this many times and I will do so again today.
Well, you have not demonstrated using biblical exegesis, but you have practiced eisegesis along with logical fallacies, as this post of yours before us now proves~ which I shall prove as I work through it. I may not get finish with your post now but will come back early in the morning, the Lord willing and finish.
Quote from: GB  Reply #36 on: Today at 11:22:46
Matt. 24:11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
A classic example of how you yank scripture out of their context and use them inappropriately to teach your rellgion that you worship and glory in. In Matthew 24 the Lord Jesus is speaking about the little season of Revelation 20 that you are so ignorant of~Jesus is saying that he that endures DURING THAT TIME when the abomination of Desolation (man OF sin) is set up in the temple of God (CHURCHES of the latter-day) of which time the beast makes war with the saints of God and OVERCOME THEM~ that at THAT TIME he that shall endure unto end shall be saved~and that salvation is speaking of KNOWLEDGE of the TIMES AT HAND! I could say much more on this point but will forbar for sake of time and keeping this post from being a small booklet.
Quote from: GB  Reply #36 on: Today at 11:22:46
In your Religion, the Resurrection is already past. You have already been presented with eternal life and are already reigning with Christ in heaven.
Okay, I'm coming back, so I can FULLY answer your post so that you cannot say you have not been answer. RB
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 02:52:10 by RB »

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #38 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 16:27:10 »
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Offline johntwayne

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #39 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 16:28:08 »
Because this topic is popping up in another thread on another topic, and a few have suggested starting a new thread on the reign of Christ and the kingdom of God, I decided to go ahead and start it here.

I haven't followed all of the other discussion word for word, but here are a few of the issues or questions that have come up:

1. Is Christ reigning as King today, in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy? Yes
2. Does that reign include Jesus sitting now on the throne of David? Yes
3. Has the kingdom of God of promise been established and is it a present reality today? Yes
4. What is the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5-6? The victory of the early church over Roman and Jewish persecutions.
5. Will there be separate resurrections for the saved and the unsaved (separate in terms of time)? No
6. Will there be a future reign of Christ on the earth for 1,000 years? No

Obviously, some of those questions are directly related to each other; if you answer one, you have answered the others- especially the first three.

I really thought some of those concepts had gone by the wayside in recent years, since premillennialism seems to have become less popular, so I am surprised that it is coming up again.

Fighters, in your corners...Ding, Ding. ::preachit::

Put my answers in your quote.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #39 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 16:28:08 »



Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #40 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 04:22:59 »
In your Religion, the Resurrection is already past. You have already been presented with eternal life and are already reigning with Christ in heaven.
I would call my understanding the truth and can prove it so with God's testimony concerning the first resurrection, of which resurrection it is totally spiritual in the nature of it. This first resurrection main foundation is supported and begins with the Lord Jesus Christ being the FIRST raised from the dead in the manner and reason why God raised him from the dead and his members of his body with him. We (the members of his holy body, he being the Head thereof)) share in every spiritual blessings (See Ephesians 1:3 and ponder) granted unto him of God. Consider:
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 1:5-14~"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"
This day have I begotten thee speaks of Christ's resurrection from the dead as the Man Christ Jesus, now no more to return to corruption, which also would be true of those chosen IN HIM, in the true sense of NEVER seeing corruption, but being granted eternal life and all other spiritual blessings given to him of God. That's why the angels of God are sent forth as ministering spirits to minister to those who are ordained to be heirs of eternal life through the SURE MERCIES of David PROMISED by God by TWO immutable acts of him~his OATH and his promises.  With Hebrews 1 also consider:
Quote from: Paul
Acts 13:15-39~"And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.  And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Two long quotes, but needed to get our point across. Christ's resurrection from the dead, who was raised by the power of God, SECURED our spirtual resurrection and free gift of righteousness for eternal life! LEGALLY as far as God's law goes, we were put to death with Christ and was raised up TOGETHER WITH HIM, and NOW we are seated WITH HIM in the heavenly place IN Jesus Christ our Head, the head of his elect seed, chosen by God. Sir, this is the TRUTH of the gospel of Jesus Christ, deviate from this truth and immediately you are corrupting the Gospel that Paul preached and defended.

Pray to tell me in your understanding what is the SURE  mercies of David, and to WHICH David are they sure to?
Quote from: GB on Yesterday at 11:22:46
You have already been presented with eternal life and are already reigning with Christ in heaven.
That's the very truth of the word of the Living God, which truth Jesus himself taught us.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 17:2,3~"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
He gave and gave eternal life by imparting LIFE to him who were dead in trespasses and sins~but only to as many as were given to him of his Father. He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 8:51,52~Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Are you going to be like the religion of the land in Jesus' day and reject the truth, or accept it?
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 11:25,26~'Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
In the true sense of dying and in the second death.
Quote from: GB on Yesterday at 11:22:46 [/quote
So Paul was still waiting either for his death, or the return of Jesus and is telling Timothy and me to keep the Commandment "without spot" until His Appearing which has not yet happened, at least for Timothy and Paul.

According to Paul, Jesus alone has eternal life that no man can even see. That is why it is called "FAITH", because men are to trust God that He will raise them from the dead, if they are already raised, where does Faith come in?.

But in your religion, He has already come back and already given the gift of eternal life to you, and others who follow your favorite "Theologian".
This is a classic Strawman fallacy that you use quite often, OR, you are just dull of hearing and have no gift of following others arguments being made~maybe both, I do not know. It is true that Jesus Christ as God (which you reject) IS Eternal life, with no beginning and no end in his Divine nature, he is indeed the Alpha and Omega~AS GOD, he IMPARTS eternal life to whomsoever he will.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST AGAIN
John 5:21~"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."
Quote from: GB on Yesterday at 11:22:46
He has already come back and already given the gift of eternal life to you, and others who follow your favorite "Theologian".
He has NOT come back the SECOND time, for then we would not be here discussing the scriptures. That's your Strawman that you have created and are fighting, NOT ME. I'm indeed following my favorite "Theologian" and he's Master of them all, his name above all other names...JESUS CHRIST my Lord and Master teacher!
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Matthew 7:28,29~"And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes."
I love sitting at his feet and learning.

I think I need to stop and finish your post later today. I do not want you to think that you have scriptures that no one desires to answer~for I have yet seen one used by you to support your corruption of the truth. Your words obviously are much like the scribes of old, without very much authority coming from your post.

   
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 04:35:56 by RB »

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #40 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 04:22:59 »

Online GB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #41 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 09:17:00 »
Pray to tell me in your understanding what is the SURE  mercies of David, and to WHICH David are they sure to? That's the very truth of the word of the Living God, which truth Jesus himself taught us. He gave and gave eternal life by imparting LIFE to him who were dead in trespasses and sins~but only to as many as were given to him of his Father. He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins.

Once again, your religion is created by using some of God's Word's, and rejecting the rest.

I do understand the "sure mercies of David", and so did Peter.

Acts. 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, "that he is both dead and buried", and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34
"For David is not ascended into the heavens": but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

David had Faith that God would raise him, as I do. But David, despite your religious ramblings, is still dead "waiting for the second return of Jesus" as is Stephen and Peter and Paul. They are all "Dead in Christ" awaiting the resurrection and the "promise of eternal life".. At least according to the God of the Bible.

Your preaching;

"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."

Yes He could have, but as the Lord's Christ points out. "Many" of these who died in their sins were convinced that they were already resurrected. They were already "saved". And why were they rejected?

Matt. 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, "ye that work iniquity".
24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, "and doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

It's right in front of your face, but you can't see it.

John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you,******** "If a man keep my saying",****** he shall never see death.

The same thing this same Christ said before coming to earth as a man.

Ex. 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

You preach;

"He gave and gave eternal life by imparting LIFE to him who were dead in trespasses and sins"

A Spiritual dead to Spiritual life so we can start anew, and serve Him in righteousness until the end of our natural life just as He served His God and my God, His Father and my Father, until the end of His natural life.

And "IF" we "deny our self" and follow Him and His Word's,  "IF" we continue in HIS GOODNESS, then we have eternal life. It is His Promise.

I notice you seem to omit this part of the Christ's teaching from your religion. I thought you might want to know.

Rom. 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. "Be not highminded, but fear:"
21
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue in his goodness":****** "otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

I know your religion and the many versions of it is very popular in the land today. And why not? All I have to do is say I believe in Jesus and I am granted eternal life, I am resurrected from the dead, and nothing anyone says, not Paul, not Jesus, not God Almighty will change that.

But for me, I don't think the Christ had this in mind when He declared. "Man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God". Because when I consider His every Word, your preaching that the first resurrection, spoken of in Revelation, is already past, is nothing different than what satan told Eve "Thou shall surely not die".

If you believed the Feast's of the Lord's Christ, you would understand God's Salvation plan, and you would then understand the difference between the first resurrection and the second.

But like Jesus said "If you don't believe Moses and the Prophets, neither will you be persuaded though ONE rose from the dead."


Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #42 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 15:40:49 »
Once again, your religion is created by using some of God's Word's, and rejecting the rest.
GB, the only thing that I'm knowingly rejecting is your teaching, which is seriously lacking toward understanding the truth.
Quote from: GB Reply #41 on: Today at 09:17:00
I do understand the "sure mercies of David", and so did Peter.
Peter I know did later on in his ministry of serving Jesus Christ. But, you I have seen no evidence that you do.
Quote from: Samuel
2nd Samuel 7:12-16~"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."
David wrote a Psalm in dedication to the sure mercies of God in Psalm 89. The sure mercies of David are established on two immutable acts of God: his OATH and his promises of GRACE.  Which you even in this post that I'm answering you vehemently reject!
Quote from: GB Reply #41 on: Today at 09:17:00
Acts. 2:29-Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, "that he is both dead and buried", and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34
"For David is not ascended into the heavens": but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

David had Faith that God would raise him, as I do. But David, despite your religious ramblings, is still dead "waiting for the second return of Jesus" as is Stephen and Peter and Paul. They are all "Dead in Christ" awaiting the resurrection and the "promise of eternal life".. At least according to the God of the Bible.
PITIFUL!  And you believe that you have the truth. GB, do you NOT hear what David is saying? LISTEN AGAIN:
Quote from: PETER
Acts 2:25-31~"For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
GB. NOT as you said:
Quote from: GB Reply #41 on: Today at 09:17:00
David had Faith that God would raise him, as I do. But David, despite your religious ramblings, is still dead "waiting for the second return of Jesus" as is Stephen and Peter and Paul. They are all "Dead in Christ" awaiting the resurrection and the "promise of eternal life"..
David without question had faith in that, but that is NOT what David was speaking concerning. David being a prophet spoke of the RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ as the FULFILLMENT of the sure mercies of David! David KNEW that those words from Nathan were pointing to JESUS CHRIST and his resurrection to the promised throne of David and the house was a SPIRITUAL HOUSE made up of Jews and Gentiles. So much could be said, but enough for now.
Quote from: GB  on: Yesterday at 09:17:00
"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."

Yes He could have, but as the Lord's Christ points out. "Many" of these who died in their sins were convinced that they were already resurrected. They were already "saved". And why were they rejected?

Matt. 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, "ye that work iniquity".
24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, "and doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

It's right in front of your face, but you can't see it.
What does this have to do with the reign of Christ? Another one of your fallacies~this time a Red Herring fallacy!  I do NOT disagree with those scriptures, but they have not one thing to do with what we are discussing. You are diverting our focus away from the thread's topic.
Quote from: Reply #41 on: Today at 09:17:00
Rom. 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. "Be not highminded, but fear:"
21
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue in his goodness":****** "otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
You just cannot stay on the subject, now can you? I will ONLY say this~you do not know how to rightly divide the word of truth. Paul is NOT addressing INDIVALUS but the GENTILES NATIONS telling them they just like the JEWISH nation was cut off, they too will be if they do not continue in God's goodness. Which btw, they HAVE NOT and soon also they shall be cut off and delivered INTO MYSTERY BABYLON to be destroyed just as the Jews were. God in the SURE MERIECS OF DAVID promised that Jesus' seed shall enure FOREVER, If they sin he will chastise them, nevertheless his mercy he will NOT take from them. Enough of that...back to the subject.

I type fast for lack of time forgive the errors....I'll come back and add more later.
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 04:07:32 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #43 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 18:37:50 »
David had Faith that God would raise him, as I do. But David, despite your religious ramblings, is still dead "waiting for the second return of Jesus" as is Stephen and Peter and Paul. They are all "Dead in Christ" awaiting the resurrection and the "promise of eternal life".. At least according to the God of the Bible.

Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Mat 22:31  And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:
Mat 22:32  'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

Quote from: GB
Your preaching;

"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."
I don't think you can find anywhere that he said that. One more time you are making stuff up ,

Quote from: GB
Yes He could have, but as the Lord's Christ points out.
I you really knew and understood God, you would know and understand just how wrong that statement is.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #43 on: Wed Sep 11, 2019 - 18:37:50 »

Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #44 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 04:23:40 »
GB~give your understanding of EACH verse in Revelation twenty and let us labor to stay on the TOPIC of Christ's PRESENT, or, future reign from Revelation 20 as you profess to believe. If you have the truth, then you should have no problem of at least showing some evidence of having it. One can have the truth, maybe just not overwhelming evidence, but at least being on the right track, which so far you have not proven that you have any biblical light on this doctrine. You must do better than what you have so far done, or, you will be shamed before all, (see 2nd Timothy 2:15 which you should know) and rightly so, whether you, or myself, if we cannot defend our beliefs.

So, I'm ready to move on to my next verse....RB 

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #45 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 04:48:08 »
Quote
Revelation 20:7~"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison".
When God's purpose for binding Satan is over (after the Church is complete and it's testimony finished~See also Revelation 11) then God will loose him out of his spiritual prison and iniquity will again abound. This verse tells us that it's God's purpose that near the end of time, God has predetermined that Satan be unsecured from his prison and will deceive the Gentiles again~The end results of them ALSO being cut off from God's goodness, just as the Jewish nation were around 2000 years ago. The Apostasy which was prevalent at Christ's first coming, will be prevalent at His second coming~(2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5 read and ponder). The fall of the congregation at Christ's first advent, is mirrored in His second advent...the Gentiles nations will also fall into the same corruption as the Jews before us did! This is the judgment of God, as plagues poured out on man with the mark of the beast.

So, what is the teaching in this verse and the following? What thousand years is under consideration here? The one pertaining directly to Satan from Revelation 20:2. His loosing is the opposite of his binding~he will be free to blind and deceive nations once again. The very next verse describes his activity after loosing~he goes out to deceive nations to war. WHich is spoken of in other chapters in Revelation and from Daniel 7-12; Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21 and 2nd Thessalonians 2; 1st John 2:18; etc. The thousand years is used loosely, for at the end thereof will be the end of Satan, but not for saints living and reigning! How long will he be loosed? Not long. It is called a little season before his final destruction (Revelation 20:3). What will Satan do? He will use his little season to make war against the saints of God (Revelation 20:3; 12:12-17)! He was upset when cast out of heaven, but now he is more upset knowing judgment is near! We are now living in this little season and maybe nears its end~but we do not know the day or hour, for it is hidden from us.

Instead of thinking about a flesh and blood battle, see increased spiritual warfare (Eph 6:12). There is an increase in Satanism, Eastern religions, Islam, New Age movement, and so forth. There is an increase in paganism, witchcraft, murder, abortion, sexual perversion, etc., etc. There is an increase in rebellion, hatred, variance, and strife against legitimate authority. There is an increase in obsession with materialism and apathy toward truth and the true God. There is an increase in the hatred and intolerance of the world for true Bible Christianity. There is an increase in the ignorance and compromise of so-called Christianity with the world. There is an increase in self-love, self-will, and deception to perilous degrees (2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5). What happened in the 19th century? The SDA's, the JW's, Mormons, and a host of others cults not to mention....Darwinism, Communism, Socialism, Textual Criticism, Modernism, Bible Perversions, etc., etc. Without question, this IS the little season?

Verse 8...later
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 04:57:40 by RB »

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #46 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 08:03:27 »
Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Mat 22:31  And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:
Mat 22:32  'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
I don't think you can find anywhere that he said that. One more time you are making stuff up ,
I you really knew and understood God, you would know and understand just how wrong that statement is.

I agree with each of these scriptures. What I don't agree with is your religious doctrine that you have already been resurrected in the same context as the Christ is giving here. I have read both you and Red's posts and this may come as a surprise to you, but you guys are not like "Angels in heaven". If Abraham and David's name are written in the Book of Life, then even though they are dead and buried as Peter teaches in the scripture I posted, are they dead in God's eyes? Of course you will not answer or discuss.

Instead you find a sentence, and use it to deflect and miss-direct from the topic at hand. Your MO is well established.

Red said and I quoted;

"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."

You said;

"I don't think you can find anywhere that he said that. One more time you are making stuff up."

LOL, this is a perfect example and further proof that you really aren't interested in a discussion where one person reads the post of the other. You are here you promote your religion, regardless of scriptures and you don't even read other peoples posts.


I posted a direct quote from Red and you preach I made the quote up. So even though you believe with all your heart that I made it up, it is a deception, an untruth.

How can you be convinced of something so blatantly false, and easy to expose?

Paul explains in Roman's 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

This is how you can believe and preach such religious whoppers, like Jesus has already bound satan and he isn't deceiving the world any more, that God created commandments contained in ordinances that condemned people as without hope and without God in the world because they were born without a certain DNA.

And it is the reason you can accuse me of making up a direct quote from Red without even blinking.

Very hard to accept if you have been convinced you are already like "Angles in Heaven".













Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #47 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 08:43:01 »
I agree with each of these scriptures. What I don't agree with is your religious doctrine that you have already been resurrected in the same context as the Christ is giving here.
Nor have I claimed that.  I posted that passage simply to show you that you are wrong in your view that physical death somehow brings an end to life in any sense until the resurrection.  God is the God of the LIVING Abraham and of the LIVING Isaac and of the LIVING Jacob.
Quote from: GB
I have read both you and Red's posts and this may come as a surprise to you, but you guys are not like "Angels in heaven".
And yet one more straw man.  Neither Red nor I have said or claimed anything about being Angels in heaven.
Quote from: GB
If Abraham and David's name are written in the Book of Life, then even though they are dead and buried as Peter teaches in the scripture I posted, are they dead in God's eyes? Of course you will not answer or discuss.
Jesus said they are LIVING.
Quote from: GB
Red said and I quoted;

"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."

You said;

"I don't think you can find anywhere that he said that. One more time you are making stuff up."
If he said that then he was wrong and I apologize for missing it and blaming you for making it up.
Quote from: GB
How can you be convinced of something so blatantly false, and easy to expose?

Paul explains in Roman's 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

This is how you can believe and preach such religious whoppers, like Jesus has already bound satan and he isn't deceiving the world any more, that God created commandments contained in ordinances that condemned people as without hope and without God in the world because they were born without a certain DNA.
The whoppers are yours.  Your interpretations of Scripture are your own, without any  corroboration anywhere from anyone. You are completely alone in your interpretations. They are not even rational.
Quote from: GB
Very hard to accept if you have been convinced you are already like "Angles in Heaven".
Again, neither Red nor I have ever claimed that.  I don't even know where you even got such a notion. 

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #48 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 10:16:02 »
When God's purpose for binding Satan is over (after the Church is complete and it's testimony finished~See also Revelation 11) then God will loose him out of his spiritual prison and iniquity will again abound. This verse tells us that it's God's purpose that near the end of time, God has predetermined that Satan be unsecured from his prison and will deceive the Gentiles again~The end results of them ALSO being cut off from God's goodness, just as the Jewish nation were around 2000 years ago. The Apostasy which was prevalent at Christ's first coming, will be prevalent at His second coming~(2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5 read and ponder). The fall of the congregation at Christ's first advent, is mirrored in His second advent...the Gentiles nations will also fall into the same corruption as the Jews before us did! This is the judgment of God, as plagues poured out on man with the mark of the beast.

So, what is the teaching in this verse and the following? What thousand years is under consideration here? The one pertaining directly to Satan from Revelation 20:2. His loosing is the opposite of his binding~he will be free to blind and deceive nations once again. The very next verse describes his activity after loosing~he goes out to deceive nations to war. WHich is spoken of in other chapters in Revelation and from Daniel 7-12; Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21 and 2nd Thessalonians 2; 1st John 2:18; etc. The thousand years is used loosely, for at the end thereof will be the end of Satan, but not for saints living and reigning! How long will he be loosed? Not long. It is called a little season before his final destruction (Revelation 20:3). What will Satan do? He will use his little season to make war against the saints of God (Revelation 20:3; 12:12-17)! He was upset when cast out of heaven, but now he is more upset knowing judgment is near! We are now living in this little season and maybe nears its end~but we do not know the day or hour, for it is hidden from us.

Instead of thinking about a flesh and blood battle, see increased spiritual warfare (Eph 6:12). There is an increase in Satanism, Eastern religions, Islam, New Age movement, and so forth. There is an increase in paganism, witchcraft, murder, abortion, sexual perversion, etc., etc. There is an increase in rebellion, hatred, variance, and strife against legitimate authority. There is an increase in obsession with materialism and apathy toward truth and the true God. There is an increase in the hatred and intolerance of the world for true Bible Christianity. There is an increase in the ignorance and compromise of so-called Christianity with the world. There is an increase in self-love, self-will, and deception to perilous degrees (2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5). What happened in the 19th century? The SDA's, the JW's, Mormons, and a host of others cults not to mention....Darwinism, Communism, Socialism, Textual Criticism, Modernism, Bible Perversions, etc., etc. Without question, this IS the little season?

Verse 8...later


Rev. 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Red,

The religion that preaches that Jesus bound satan as prophesied in His Feasts, at his Death and resurrection, but forgot to tell Paul and Peter would be almost laughable, if it were not for the people who actually believe this religious nonsense.

You believe your religion and the JW and LDS believe theirs. I don't see any difference between any of them. They all transgress God's commandments by their own religious doctrines and traditions, they all reject the Feast's of the Christ and have created their own "Feast's unto the Lord". If you believe you are already given eternal life, that satan is no longer in the deceiving business, and you are reigning with Christ over the rulers of the world, you are free to do so.

I'm sticking with the Word's and warnings of the Bible.

2 Cor. 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Hard to do if Jesus bound him and cast him in a bottomless pit so he doesn't deceive anymore.

It isn't me who exposes much of your religion as from man and not God, it is the very Word's of the God you claim to believe.

You beef shouldn't be with me, rather, the God whose Word's expose your error.


 


























Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #49 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 11:02:40 »
You believe your religion and the JW and LDS believe theirs.
And you believe yours; yours which no one else believes.  That in itself should tell you that you are way off base.  At least the JW and the LDS and certainly RB have a whole contingent who believes as they do.  You on the other hand stand out there on your own.  Shoot, even the Scribes and Pharisees were not alone.  But you, it seems not.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #50 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 11:24:34 »
Nor have I claimed that.  I posted that passage simply to show you that you are wrong in your view that physical death somehow brings an end to life in any sense until the resurrection.  God is the God of the LIVING Abraham and of the LIVING Isaac and of the LIVING Jacob.And yet one more straw man.  Neither Red nor I have said or claimed anything about being Angels in heaven.Jesus said they are LIVING.If he said that then he was wrong and I apologize for missing it and blaming you for making it up.The whoppers are yours.  Your interpretations of Scripture are your own, without any  corroboration anywhere from anyone. You are completely alone in your interpretations. They are not even rational.Again, neither Red nor I have ever claimed that.  I don't even know where you even got such a notion.

Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

I don't think it is Peter who didn't understand Jesus and David as your post implies, I think it is you who don't understand Jesus and David.

Ps. 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Matt. 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Both you and Red promote the religious doctrine that the "first resurrect" is already past. "The resurrection of the dead" you both claim has already happened to you and Red.

Jesus says here that in the resurrection of the dead, that both you and Red claim has already happened to you, they are not given in marriage, but are like "angels in heaven". Since you are both "Reigning with Christ", having already been raised from the dead, then you must also be saying you are "like angels in heaven".

So again, you make a claim, I read it, and respond according to the Scriptures which you posted.

I don't believe the resurrection has already happened for you and Red. I don't believe you have been filled with the holy Spirit of truth and are reigning with Christ on earth today.

I don't believe this because of the many scriptures I posted which bring this religious doctrine into question.

I also don't believe satan has already been locked up for 1000 years, and has not been deceiving the nations for centuries.

This understand also comes from scriptures which show that Paul did not believe this and neither did Peter. The preaching that Jesus locked up satan but didn't tell His Apostles, is foolishness in my view.

AS for you not seeing a consensus in my understanding of scriptures, I don't see that you have a consensus with Red either, or anybody who teaches contrary to your religion.

I don't see this as uncommon among religious men and certainly the mainstream religions of Christ's didn't agree with His or Paul's understanding of the scriptures either. So unless you can provide scriptural evidence against my understanding, which you can't seem to do, then maybe it would be wise to reexamine your religious understanding and their foundations. After all, you are judged by your works, not mine.








Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #51 on: Thu Sep 12, 2019 - 12:06:37 »
Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

I don't think it is Peter who didn't understand Jesus and David as your post implies, I think it is you who don't understand Jesus and David.

Mat 10:28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #52 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 04:12:16 »
"He could have given eternal life to every single person IF it was in the will of God to do so, but it was not since many died in their sins."
I did say those exact words, and I will not back down from those words and can and will defend it with all that's within me, so help me God. Those words can be supported by many different arguments, yet that's not what this thread is about. I labor to stay on the thread, which you seem not to be too concerned with doing the same~you are here, there, and everywhere else, but generally NOT dealing with the subject at hand.~all you desire to do is to insert your own religious beliefs which you have concocted own your own out in the middle of no man's land, a system and language of your own~and I will add....which have not proven, and the reason why that you cannot do so, is God's word will not support you.
Quote from: GB on: Yesterday at 10:16:02
Red, The religion that preaches that Jesus bound satan as prophesied in His Feasts, at his Death and resurrection, but forgot to tell Paul and Peter would be almost laughable, if it were not for the people who actually believe this religious nonsense.
That puts me into good company, they also more than once laugh Jesus to a point of scorning him!  See Matthew 9:18-26; Luke 9:18-26; etc.
Quote from: GB on: Yesterday at 10:16:02
You believe your religion and the JW and LDS believe theirs. I don't see any difference between any of them. They all transgress God's commandments by their own religious doctrines and traditions, they all reject the Feast's of the Christ and have created their own "Feast's unto the Lord". If you believe you are already given eternal life, that satan is no longer in the deceiving business, and you are reigning with Christ over the rulers of the world, you are free to do so.
Of course you see the difference you just refuse to admit. Again you use logical fallacies in order to deceive yourself and others~by not being truthful dealing with what I DID NOT say and inserting what you want yourself and others believe I'm saying, which I have NEVER said! That's call being deceitful in the religion that I follow, which is Jesus Christ's~where Christ taught us to let our yea be yea and our nay be nay~whatsoever cometh more of this is evil. I have never said that Satan is not in the deceiving business any longer, ONLY that it was LIMITED while the Gentiles churches were being built for an eternal habitation for God's Spirit. Go back and read my post carefully which you said to 4WD in so many words where he overlooked by accident my quote. It happens with all of us, yet I did say it more than once that Satan is STILL active, ONLY his activity was LIMITED~now, is that clear to you? probably not.
Quote from: Yesterday at 10:16:02
you are reigning with Christ over the rulers of the world
Again, you do not read my post very carefully. I have never said that we are ruling over the rulers of this world, but OVER SPIRITUAL FOES/spirits, etc. That's the TRUTH of the word of God~yes, one day the kingdoms of this world WILL BECOME OURS~but that's after the destruction of this present earth and the NEW earth and heaven are be created. DO we reigning NOW? God said that we are~do we have POWER over the kingdom of Satan now? Jesus said that we do.
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 15:20-26~"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Again:
Quote
Luke 10:17-20~And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
Also.....
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 28:18-20~"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.
I believe these scriptures, too bad you reject them in your religious teachings! I will follow Paul's words:
Quote from: Paul
Phiippians 1:28,29~"And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"
Satan, his angels nor his ministers terrify me in the least, if they did, it would be an evident token of being a child of perdition~but God has called his children to the TRUE religion of Jesus Christ and equip them with our spiritual armour to take on all the forces of evil and conquer them in Jesus' name! And all of God children said AMEN, praise be to the Lamb of God forever and ever world without end.

GB, let us deal with Revelation 20...I'm still waiting to read yours...is there a problem on your end? If you have truth as you believe you do, then prove it with a little of authority from the word of God, or shut up~for all you are doing is embarrassing yourself....of course, fools and deceived men/women never know that they are showing themselves as being deceived and foolish....that's why the scriptures call it DECEPTION. Selah
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 04:21:49 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #53 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 05:10:48 »
Matt. 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Both you and Red promote the religious doctrine that the "first resurrect" is already past. "The resurrection of the dead" you both claim has already happened to you and Red.
GB, the only person in this thread that's holding to a doctrine from Mystery Babylon would be "you". Amazingly, you quote scriptures that go directly against what you believe!  From where I come from, that's call "SELF DECEPTION" which is the highest form of deception and the hardest to overcome.
Quote
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
 
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living
These words from Jesus PROVES that the FIRST resurrection is SPIRITUAL in nature, not physical. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were ALL ALIVE as Jesus was speaking BECAUSE they had been elected to have part in the first resurrection in Christ AND when they were quickened to life while they lived in this world. They were NOT dead in the grave as the wicked were who died in their sins~they will NOT live again UNTIL the last day resurrection when BOTH bodies of righteous and wicked shall come forth~NEVERTHELESS, the souls of the righteous are PRESENT with God as soon as they take their last breath.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 5:6-9~"Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him."
The righteous, cannot die in the true sense of drying~IMPOSSIBLE, for our life is HID with Christ IN God because we have been given the free gift of eternal life~and eternal life means JUST THAT, eternal! In your religious beliefs system, it is just a temporary lease program, and depending on how you do, will depend on if you can keep it, or not.
Quote from: GB on: Yesterday at 11:24:34
Jesus says here that in the resurrection of the dead, that both you and Red claim has already happened to you, they are not given in marriage, but are like "angels in heaven".
Jesus is answering their question about the BODILY RESURRECTION in the last day, and in that sense, we ALL shall be like the angel of God, neither marring or given in marriage. But notice how he answered them:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 22:29-32~Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
He addresses a DIFFERENT SUBJECT than the bodily resurrection of the last day, which is the SECOND resurrection. He was speaking to the SADDUCEES who did NOT believe in spirits or the resurrection in ANY SENSE whatsoever! Jesus was revealing to them that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob where ALIVE in their soul/spirit and WERE with God~God who is ETERNAL LIFE cannot be the God of the dead but MUST be the God of the LIVING and that's what Jesus is saying to these religious goats that rejected bible truths for their own precious love of their golden calf that they created. They did not believe that PRECIOUS in the sight of God is the DEATH of a saint of God~one reason was that they were immediately escorted into eternal bliss to be with their God.   

Later.....RB
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 05:15:59 by RB »

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #54 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 10:23:42 »
Mat 10:28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are not destroyed until after they are resurrected and judgment is given. Their spirit simply returns to God who gave it until then.

What is your point with this verse?

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #55 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 11:03:46 »
size=10pt]What is your point with this verse?[/size]
My point is to demonstrate that you, as is typical of you, have no idea at all what you are talking about.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #56 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 11:20:33 »
And you believe yours; yours which no one else believes.  That in itself should tell you that you are way off base.  At least the JW and the LDS and certainly RB have a whole contingent who believes as they do.  You on the other hand stand out there on your own.  Shoot, even the Scribes and Pharisees were not alone.  But you, it seems not.

Yes, there are "Many" who follow your religion, the religions of the land, just as Jesus said there would be. And these religions preach things like "satan is already bound and is not deceiving any more", that they have already been resurrected and given the gift of immortality, that God created "Commandments contained in ordinances" which condemned men as without hope and without God in the world based on the DNA they were born with.

These are popular religious doctrines to be sure, taught by "Many" who come in His Name, which the Bible as a whole does not support. They cherry pick a verse here or there, and omitting the rest like the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did.

The Christ warned of this over and over in His Gospel beginning with Eve and the "Other Voice" who used some of God's Word to deceive her, just as he is doing today.

The Christ teaches "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

But sadly there are "Many" who come in His Name that just don't believe Him.

But what can I say? He knows the truth.

"If they believe not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though ONE rose from the dead."

It seems wiser to test doctrines by Every Word of God, rather than by religious man.

As Peter said to those "MANY" religious men of his time who didn't believe in the Law and Prophets.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


You are still living, it's not to late to "deny" yourself (the religions of the land you were born into, like Jesus did) and follow the Christ of the Bible. You can become a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a hearer only. You too, like Paul, can believe "All things written in the Law of Prophets" that the religions of the land consider heresy. All you have to do is "Believe". Not the religions of the Land and all the "other voices" out there who come in His Name, but "believe" the Christ of the Bible who promised:

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

It's not too late.




Offline Amo

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #57 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 11:54:06 »
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If the thousand years began with Christ's incarnation, then who were the saints who had been slain for their witness of Jesus, who or what was the beast that they had not worshiped, and what was the mark they had not received? According to the scriptures above, the thousand years commences after these things have already happened. How does that work? How has being persecuted and killed for Christ, actually been reigning with Christ since His incarnation?

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Why would Peter, living in this thousand years in which some say Satan is bound, warn Christ's followers about the devil walking about seeking to devour them?

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

More of the same from Paul, for those in Christ, why? How are those preaching the gospel in battle with Satan and his own, reigning with Christ while Satan is bound, and judging the world at the same time?

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The saints shall judge the world, they are not now judging the world. First they must give the gospel message the world will be judged by. Which the devil combats at every step, because he is not bound.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

How does one who is bound work with power, signs, lying wonders, and deceivableness in this world before Christ returns?

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How does one who is bound make war with those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ if they are supposedly now living and reigning with Him?


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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #58 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 12:29:59 »
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If the thousand years began with Christ's incarnation, then who were the saints who had been slain for their witness of Jesus, who or what was the beast that they had not worshiped, and what was the mark they had not received? According to the scriptures above, the thousand years commences after these things have already happened. How does that work? How has being persecuted and killed for Christ, actually been reigning with Christ since His incarnation?

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Why would Peter, living in this thousand years in which some say Satan is bound, warn Christ's followers about the devil walking about seeking to devour them?

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

More of the same from Paul, for those in Christ, why? How are those preaching the gospel in battle with Satan and his own, reigning with Christ while Satan is bound, and judging the world at the same time?

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The saints shall judge the world, they are not now judging the world. First they must give the gospel message the world will be judged by. Which the devil combats at every step, because he is not bound.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

How does one who is bound work with power, signs, lying wonders, and deceivableness in this world before Christ returns?

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How does one who is bound make war with those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ if they are supposedly now living and reigning with Him?

These are very good points Amo. The answer is of course, satan isn't bound, nor has it been bound, and the first resurrection has not yet happened .

But imagine the cost to some of accepting this obvious Biblical Truth. So much of their religion is based on the belief that they are already "made perfect", already granted the gift of eternal life.

The Pharisees in like manner had been promoting religious doctrines and traditions of men for centuries. When the Lord's Christ came and showed them in their own Bible where they had "omitted the weightier matters of the Law" and were not serving the God of the Bible at all, rather, the prince of this world. It was just too much for them to accept. The Cost was just too high.

It is the same today. There is truly no new thing under the sun.

Great post AMO :)




Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #59 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 13:42:35 »
The Binding of Satan

The first three verses of Revelation 20 describes an event that surely sends a thrill through every Christian’s heart; the binding of Satan.  The text says,

   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

My Strong conviction is that Jesus bound the devil when he came the first time.  Many find it extremely difficult to accept this idea, mainly because they hear the words ”binding of Satan” and formulate their own idea of what this must mean before they examine the Biblical data.  If Satan is bound, they think, then there should not be any sin or even temptation on the earth.  But sin obviously was not eliminated by Christ’s first coming and is still abundant on the earth today.  Would one not have to be blind to think that Satan is bound in times like these?

The key to understanding the binding of Satan is to pay close attention to what the Bible actually says about it, not only in Rev 20:1-3 but elsewhere in the NT as well.  Regarding the latter we begin with the way Scripture describes the purpose of Christ’s first coming.  Among other things, it is specifically taught that Jesus came to deal with the devil.  1 John 3:8 says,  “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”  Among Satan’s works are falsehood and death (John 8:44; Heb 2:14), but Jesus came “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37; see John 8:31-47).  He has already “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim 1:10).

Jesus came not only to destroy Satan’s works but to “destroy” Satan himself.  Hebrews 2:14 clearly states that Jesus came the first time “so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death – that is, the devil”  The word rendered “destroy” by the NIV (katargeo) does not necessarily mean “to annihilate, to abolish  completely.”  Obviously Jesus did not do this to Satan at his first coming.  But the word also can mean “to set aside, to make ineffective, to nullify, to render powerless.”  This is the better understanding here, as in the NASB: Christ come to “render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.”

Either way this is very strong language.  John says Jesus came specifically to destroy the devil’s works;  Hebrews says he came to render the devil powerless.  We must ask, if this is why Jesus came, did he actually accomplish these things or did he fail?  Surely it would be blasphemous to say the latter.  Therefore we conclude that Jesus destroyed Satan’s works and rendered him powerless from “the binding of Satan” in Rev 20:1-3).  If anything, the language of 1 John and Hebrews is even stronger than that of Revelation 20.

What about the expression, “the binding of Satan”?  Does this specific language appear elsewhere in Scripture”  The answer is yes.  In Matt 12:29 (and Mark 3:27) it is used to describe what Jesus was doing during his first advent.  Throughout Jesus earthly ministry he was already limiting Satan’s power, especially through his many victorious encounters with demonic spirits who had taken over people’s bodies.  By casting out demons Jesus was demonstrating his power over Satan’s kingdom; he was winding the chains around the devil’s neck.

Jesus made this very claim in connection with an exorcism recorded in Matt 12:22-30 (see Mark 3:22-27; Luke 11:14-23).  Here Jesus explains that in casting out demons he is not working with Satan but against him.  He uses the illustration of a strong man who is holding people captive in his house, and a stronger man who attacks and overpowers the captor and sets the captives free (Luke 11:21-22).  As he explains in Matt 12:29, “or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry of his property, unless he first binds the strong man?  And then he will plunder his house.”  By casting out demons Jesus was already in the process of binding the devil (the “strong man”) during his earthly ministry.

Jesus also gave his disciples the authority to cast our demons (Matt 10:1).  In Luke 10:1-20 he sent out 70 evangelists with similar authority.  When they returned, they joyfully reported, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name” (Luke 10:17).  Jesus replied, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning” (Luke 10:18).  Satan’s “fall from heaven” here is not his prehistoric, initial sin; it refers to the defeat he was experiencing through Christ’s power at the hands of the disciples at that very time.  This is the same event described symbolically in Rev 12:7-9,

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.  The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.  And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Again this is not Satan’s initial sin, but his defeat at the hands of the Messiah at the latter’s first coming (Rev 12:1-6).

The death blow against Satan was struck in the death and resurrection of Jesus (see Gen 3:15; John 12:31-33; Col 2:15).  On the eve of his crucifixion Jesus announced his imminent mortal combat with the devil (John 14:30).  Through his own death he rendered Satan powerless (Heb 2:14), and through his resurrection the victory was complete.  The risen victor declares, “I am the first and the last, the living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades “ (Rev 1:17-18).  The keys here are the same as ”the key of the abyss” in Rev 20:1.  A key is symbolic of power and authority.  Through his death and resurrection Jesus gained power over the abyss – realm of death, Satan’s proper domain; and with that power he both locks Satan himself in the abyss and rescues those who have been held captive there (Heb 2:15).  Revelation 20:1-3 thus symbolically represents Christ’s present control over Satan and his works, and the consequent limitation of his power.

Some will still be skeptical that “the binding of Satan” has been a reality since Christ’s first coming.  Again this is because they have created their own idea of what this should entail, i.e., the earth should be a perfect place, free from sin and filled with righteousness, peace, and prosperity.  But this is not how things have been.  So how can this be the millennium?  How can we accept the idea that Satan is bound now?  We can do this if we do not jump to unwarranted conclusions about the results of Satan’s binding.  Does the Bible actually say that this binding will result in a paradise-like world?  No.  In fact, Rev 20:3 states very specifically that the single purpose of Satan’s binding is “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer.”

The question is whether this was actually a result of Christ’s first coming, and the answer is yes.  Satan’s main activity is deception.  John 8:44 says, ‘he is a liar and the father of lies.”  Revelation 12:9 describes him, prior to his defeat at Christ’s first coming, as the one “who deceives the whole world,”  He is the source of lies, false teachings, false religions, and all idolatry.  With the exception of Israel, prior to Christ’s first coming the entire world – all nations as nations – was totally engulfed in Satan’s lies, languishing in darkness (see Rom 1:18-32).  But what happened when Christ came?  He accomplished the works of redemption, thus defeating the devil and his hosts.  The gospel  --  the good news about the saving power of Christ  --  is the gospel truth that dispels Satan’s lies and brings light and life to all the world (2 Tim 1:10),

This is exactly how the risen Jesus described Paul’s mission to the Gentiles, i.e., to the nations: “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me” (Acts 26:18).  this tells us that prior to the preaching of the gospel, the nations were in darkness; they were the domain of Satan.  But as the gospel has been preached “to all the nations” in obedience to the Great Commission (Luke 24:47; see Matt 28:18-20, Mark 16:15), multitudes “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (rev 7:9) have been delivered from captivity to the devil.  In terms of Rev  20:1-3, the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the chain that binds Satan, so that is not able to deceive the nations any longer.

This does not mean that Satan is doing nothing today.  He still roams about, like a roaring lion, seeking to devour us (1 Pet 5:8).  But Christ has established a safety zone, as it were, a place where Satan has no power.  It is the church, which is the realm over which Christ reigns in his millennial kingship, a haven from the forces of death (Matt 16:18), and “the pillar and support of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).  Anyone who accepts the truth of the gospel and surrenders to the Lordship of Christ is rescued from captivity to Satan and set free to live beyond the reach of his lying mouth and slashing claws.

The results of Christ’s initial binding of Satan are bestowed on individuals.  When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life.  Jesus has already bound the strong man as such; when we preach the gospel and convert individuals, we are in effect plundering the strong man’s house and carrying off his property (Matt 12:29).  Because this has already been done on a worldwide basis, with practically every nation being exposed to Christ’s liberating power to some degree, it can no longer be said that Satan is deceiving the Nations.  Therefore, in terms of Rev 20:1-3, he is bound .  The millennium is now!

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #60 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 22:34:12 »
The Binding of Satan

The first three verses of Revelation 20 describes an event that surely sends a thrill through every Christian’s heart; the binding of Satan.  The text says,

   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

My Strong conviction is that Jesus bound the devil when he came the first time.  Many find it extremely difficult to accept this idea, mainly because they hear the words ”binding of Satan” and formulate their own idea of what this must mean before they examine the Biblical data.  If Satan is bound, they think, then there should not be any sin or even temptation on the earth.  But sin obviously was not eliminated by Christ’s first coming and is still abundant on the earth today.  Would one not have to be blind to think that Satan is bound in times like these?

The key to understanding the binding of Satan is to pay close attention to what the Bible actually says about it, not only in Rev 20:1-3 but elsewhere in the NT as well.  Regarding the latter we begin with the way Scripture describes the purpose of Christ’s first coming.  Among other things, it is specifically taught that Jesus came to deal with the devil.  1 John 3:8 says,  “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”  Among Satan’s works are falsehood and death (John 8:44; Heb 2:14), but Jesus came “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37; see John 8:31-47).  He has already “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim 1:10).

Jesus came not only to destroy Satan’s works but to “destroy” Satan himself.  Hebrews 2:14 clearly states that Jesus came the first time “so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death – that is, the devil”  The word rendered “destroy” by the NIV (katargeo) does not necessarily mean “to annihilate, to abolish  completely.”  Obviously Jesus did not do this to Satan at his first coming.  But the word also can mean “to set aside, to make ineffective, to nullify, to render powerless.”  This is the better understanding here, as in the NASB: Christ come to “render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.”

Either way this is very strong language.  John says Jesus came specifically to destroy the devil’s works;  Hebrews says he came to render the devil powerless.  We must ask, if this is why Jesus came, did he actually accomplish these things or did he fail?  Surely it would be blasphemous to say the latter.  Therefore we conclude that Jesus destroyed Satan’s works and rendered him powerless from “the binding of Satan” in Rev 20:1-3).  If anything, the language of 1 John and Hebrews is even stronger than that of Revelation 20.

What about the expression, “the binding of Satan”?  Does this specific language appear elsewhere in Scripture”  The answer is yes.  In Matt 12:29 (and Mark 3:27) it is used to describe what Jesus was doing during his first advent.  Throughout Jesus earthly ministry he was already limiting Satan’s power, especially through his many victorious encounters with demonic spirits who had taken over people’s bodies.  By casting out demons Jesus was demonstrating his power over Satan’s kingdom; he was winding the chains around the devil’s neck.

Jesus made this very claim in connection with an exorcism recorded in Matt 12:22-30 (see Mark 3:22-27; Luke 11:14-23).  Here Jesus explains that in casting out demons he is not working with Satan but against him.  He uses the illustration of a strong man who is holding people captive in his house, and a stronger man who attacks and overpowers the captor and sets the captives free (Luke 11:21-22).  As he explains in Matt 12:29, “or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry of his property, unless he first binds the strong man?  And then he will plunder his house.”  By casting out demons Jesus was already in the process of binding the devil (the “strong man”) during his earthly ministry.

Jesus also gave his disciples the authority to cast our demons (Matt 10:1).  In Luke 10:1-20 he sent out 70 evangelists with similar authority.  When they returned, they joyfully reported, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name” (Luke 10:17).  Jesus replied, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning” (Luke 10:18).  Satan’s “fall from heaven” here is not his prehistoric, initial sin; it refers to the defeat he was experiencing through Christ’s power at the hands of the disciples at that very time.  This is the same event described symbolically in Rev 12:7-9,

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.  The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.  And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Again this is not Satan’s initial sin, but his defeat at the hands of the Messiah at the latter’s first coming (Rev 12:1-6).

The death blow against Satan was struck in the death and resurrection of Jesus (see Gen 3:15; John 12:31-33; Col 2:15).  On the eve of his crucifixion Jesus announced his imminent mortal combat with the devil (John 14:30).  Through his own death he rendered Satan powerless (Heb 2:14), and through his resurrection the victory was complete.  The risen victor declares, “I am the first and the last, the living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades “ (Rev 1:17-18).  The keys here are the same as ”the key of the abyss” in Rev 20:1.  A key is symbolic of power and authority.  Through his death and resurrection Jesus gained power over the abyss – realm of death, Satan’s proper domain; and with that power he both locks Satan himself in the abyss and rescues those who have been held captive there (Heb 2:15).  Revelation 20:1-3 thus symbolically represents Christ’s present control over Satan and his works, and the consequent limitation of his power.

Some will still be skeptical that “the binding of Satan” has been a reality since Christ’s first coming.  Again this is because they have created their own idea of what this should entail, i.e., the earth should be a perfect place, free from sin and filled with righteousness, peace, and prosperity.  But this is not how things have been.  So how can this be the millennium?  How can we accept the idea that Satan is bound now?  We can do this if we do not jump to unwarranted conclusions about the results of Satan’s binding.  Does the Bible actually say that this binding will result in a paradise-like world?  No.  In fact, Rev 20:3 states very specifically that the single purpose of Satan’s binding is “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer.”

The question is whether this was actually a result of Christ’s first coming, and the answer is yes.  Satan’s main activity is deception.  John 8:44 says, ‘he is a liar and the father of lies.”  Revelation 12:9 describes him, prior to his defeat at Christ’s first coming, as the one “who deceives the whole world,”  He is the source of lies, false teachings, false religions, and all idolatry.  With the exception of Israel, prior to Christ’s first coming the entire world – all nations as nations – was totally engulfed in Satan’s lies, languishing in darkness (see Rom 1:18-32).  But what happened when Christ came?  He accomplished the works of redemption, thus defeating the devil and his hosts.  The gospel  --  the good news about the saving power of Christ  --  is the gospel truth that dispels Satan’s lies and brings light and life to all the world (2 Tim 1:10),

This is exactly how the risen Jesus described Paul’s mission to the Gentiles, i.e., to the nations: “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me” (Acts 26:18).  this tells us that prior to the preaching of the gospel, the nations were in darkness; they were the domain of Satan.  But as the gospel has been preached “to all the nations” in obedience to the Great Commission (Luke 24:47; see Matt 28:18-20, Mark 16:15), multitudes “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (rev 7:9) have been delivered from captivity to the devil.  In terms of Rev  20:1-3, the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the chain that binds Satan, so that is not able to deceive the nations any longer.

This does not mean that Satan is doing nothing today.  He still roams about, like a roaring lion, seeking to devour us (1 Pet 5:8).  But Christ has established a safety zone, as it were, a place where Satan has no power.  It is the church, which is the realm over which Christ reigns in his millennial kingship, a haven from the forces of death (Matt 16:18), and “the pillar and support of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).  Anyone who accepts the truth of the gospel and surrenders to the Lordship of Christ is rescued from captivity to Satan and set free to live beyond the reach of his lying mouth and slashing claws.

The results of Christ’s initial binding of Satan are bestowed on individuals.  When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life.  Jesus has already bound the strong man as such; when we preach the gospel and convert individuals, we are in effect plundering the strong man’s house and carrying off his property (Matt 12:29).  Because this has already been done on a worldwide basis, with practically every nation being exposed to Christ’s liberating power to some degree, it can no longer be said that Satan is deceiving the Nations.  Therefore, in terms of Rev 20:1-3, he is bound .  The millennium is now!

Quote
"When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life."

But if you believe satan is bound, cast into a bottomless pit, and deceiving no more, then you are not "Taking Heed" of the warnings.

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Since "many" who come in His Name, believe Jesus has already bound satan, they are unprotected from it's power. They reject His Warnings, and follow a religion of man and not God.

Believing the lie that satan is bound, they reject the protections the Christ created for us, the Armor of God, the escapes from temptations, the examples written for our admonitions.

So they reject the very instruction the Christ created for us to resist the devil they have been convinced is gone. Not from anything Jesus says, or His Apostles. They somehow are convinced that Jesus bound satan but didn't tell His Apostles. The Feast Days of the Christ explain this "binding", but these religious men don't believe the Law and prophets. They have been snared, taken in a trap that the God of the Bible warned about, they just don't believe Him.

Jer. 5:23 But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.

24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

25 Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Since they have been convinced that they are already gifted with eternal life, and that satan no longer tempts them, they reject the very protection Jesus gave them. They don't believe in the warnings because they have their "theologians" telling them they have "Peace, Peace, when there is no peace.

They can't answer the questions AMO asked, so they just set aside the Bible and the Christ's Word's, and rely on the "Ministers of Righteousness" that make them feel good about themselves. Professing themselves as wise, they become fools, and reject the very Word which is Spirit, and Life.

People show them the scriptures, the warnings, and instructions for protection. But they reject them, ridicule them, and refuse to even consider that maybe the Word's of the Christ are true, and it is the "Ministers of Righteousness" which are not.

For me it is fascinating to see all these prophesies come to pass, to see the spiritual blindness on those who reject His Warnings. It is a big Faith builder  for me, and brings the scriptures and examples written for our admonition in the OT in full circle. Showing perfectly that in this world, there is only ONE voice that we can truly trust.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.























Offline RB

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #61 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 05:18:56 »
GB, I'm going to let 4WD answer his own post that was directed to him from you, and then after he does, I have somewhat to add to both of your post to 4WD. He's more than capable of answering for himself, he does not need me, yet, I do want to reveal your gross errors after he first answers for himself. So I will turn my attention to Amo, with whom I have battled with before as he defends his SDA doctrine that he came to embraced and I can see why you and him have some agreement, for your doctrine is nothing more than a mixture of several doctrines preached "IN" Mystery Babylon, which Amo limits to the apostate whore of Rome, and leaves the other whores out INCLUDING his SDA cult that he is part of. Another thread for another day if God wills.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 11:54:06
If the thousand years began with Christ's incarnation, then who were the saints who had been slain for their witness of Jesus, who or what was the beast that they had not worshiped, and what was the mark they had not received? According to the scriptures above, the thousand years commences after these things have already happened. How does that work? How has being persecuted and killed for Christ, actually been reigning with Christ since His incarnation?
First, the thousand years did not begin with Christ's birth, but his DEATH and RESURRECTION! It was then God highly exalted him to the promised throne of David, or, Lord over all, and is in the PROCESS of making ALL his enemies his footstool, the last enemy which shall be destroyed will be DEATH and then he shall reign upon the New earth and under the New heaven as God blessed forever in his Glorified body~even though Jesus Christ IS GOD blessed forever at this present time, (See Romans 9:5 and show it to GB since he rejects Christ is God manifest in human flesh) but is ONLY known to be by his saints, but after death is destroyed by God, ALL OF HIS ENEMIES shall know the power given to him of His Father.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 11:54:06
then who were the saints who had been slain for their witness of Jesus,
From Abel to the last one thus far. Beside~there is many ways God's elect can be killed, and it is not always done with a sword, etc. Their character and good name can be murder by the enemies of God~their testimony could be SILENCE, etc. But to answer your question~ALL that have ever died in the faith per Hebrews 11.
Quote from: Amo  on: Yesterday at 11:54:06
who or what was the beast that they had not worshiped,
The spirit of antichrist/mystery of iniquity that has been here SINCE CAIN! Hear carefully the apostle Paul....
Quote from: Paul
2nd Thessalonians 2:7,8~ "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
I'll say more later, but for now, the mystery of iniquity was at work in Paul's day through the Jews, Pharisees, Sadducees, and many others  splinter groups, (or persons like GB), yet they were limited to the degree that it shall come JUST BEFORE the coming of Jesus Christ, the great tribulation that Christ warned us of that was to come when this world shall be flooded with FALSE PROPHETS, for THEN that that wicked be revealed~that is the man OF SIN~or MAN of sin, that is, man through whom the devil has much more control over than he did before God's restraint upon him while the church among the Gentiles was being built.

Amo, much like John said here:
Quote from: John
1st John 2:18~"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
The antichrist spirit was in Cain, and even more so during Jesus' day, but in the little season of Revelation 20, that spirit will come in GREATER NUMBERS and with GREATER power to deceive than ever before in the history of this world per Christ in Matthew 24.! It's all taught here: Daniel 7-12; Matthew 24 and 25; Mark 13; Luke 21 and of course the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Your great error is LIMITING the spirit of antichrist to Rome and its Popes when in truth it takes in ALL FALSE DOCTRINES OF MEN and their religious beliefs. Benny Hinn has the SAME spirit of antichrist in him and any pope has ever had. Ellen G. White had the same evil spirit in her as Kenneth Copeland does~regardless if you accept that or not, it makes no difference. GB, in denying Christ's deity as God manifest in the flesh has the same spirit of antichrist which he uses for the honour of the beast, or, the spirit of the Devil himself in promoting the teachings of Mystery Babylon that GREAT WHORE that corrupted the world by her fornications!
Quote from: Amo  on: Yesterday at 11:54:06
and what was the mark they had not received?
The mark that they had they had this mark "in" their right hand and "ON" their forehead...it not difficult to understand. Those who are controlled by the beast, are in FELLOWSHIP (right hand~Galatians 2:9 see and consider) with him and AGREE with his corruption of the word of God~(forehead speaks of AGREEMENT in their mind) The mark is spiritual in its nature, NOT a literal mark. The number 666 is nothing more than teaching us that the MAJORITY of the folks follow the beast in comparison of the few that follow the truth. Here is a scripture that would support the number of the beast if you would receive it:
Quote from: the prophet that was killed between the temple and the altar
Zachariah 13:7-9~"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."
Two parts of any whole is 66% or 666. These scriptures clearly reveal to us the meaning of 666~ are those that shall be cut off and die for following the beast.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 11:54:06
According to the scriptures above, the thousand years commences after these things have already happened. How does that work? How has being persecuted and killed for Christ, actually been reigning with Christ since His incarnation?
That's your private interpretation of these verses, but the Holy Ghost does not anywhere tell us the blinding and the reigning is AFTER the thousand years. Look again:
Quote from: The HOLY GHOST
Revelation 20:1-3~"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"
What follows the thousand years is the loosing of Satan or~ God restraining power over him is removed, he THEN goes back working AS HE DID IN THE OT with full power over the nations, but his main wrath is directed (as always) toward the Camp pf the saints to destroy them...BAD MISTAKE! And then judgment and the end of this present world with Satan, and his angles and children destroyed in the lake of fire, which will be THIS PRESENT WORLD AND HEAVENS BEING DESTROYED................... and ALL therein forever forgotten!

I'll stop for now since this post is getting a little too long. I'll answer your other questions if you desire me to do so~I see no problem in doing so~for IF I did, then I would have a serious problem with my understanding like I see that you do. 
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 06:59:49 by RB »

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #62 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 06:04:40 »
size=10pt]But if you believe satan is bound, cast into a bottomless pit, and deceiving no more, then you are not "Taking Heed" of the warnings.[/size]
Nothing I wrote said anything about Satan being cast into the bottomless pit.  Your inability to read and comprehend what is written and your tendency to insert your own false thinking into whatever is written is precisely why you are so far wrong on most of Scripture.  But then you didn't really read enough to even know what was said.  You only picked out a statement here and there and proceeded to insert your own emotional, not rational, thinking.

Quote from: GB
Since "many" who come in His Name, believe Jesus has already bound satan, they are unprotected from it's power. They reject His Warnings, and follow a religion of man and not God.

Believing the lie that satan is bound, they reject the protections the Christ created for us, the Armor of God, the escapes from temptations, the examples written for our admonitions.
It is specifically the protections of the indwelling Holy Spirit received through faith in Jesus Christ that binds Satan for the believer.
Quote from: GB
Since they have been convinced that they are already gifted with eternal life, and that satan no longer tempts them, they reject the very protection Jesus gave them.
And one more time you fail to read and understand.  Nothing in what I wrote said anything about Satan no longer tempting anyone.  Again you inserted your own false premises into what was written.  In this case you insert your own, not the biblical, meaning of the binding of Satan.
Quote from: GB
People show them the scriptures, the warnings, and instructions for protection. But they reject them, ridicule them, and refuse to even consider that maybe the Word's of the Christ are true, and it is the "Ministers of Righteousness" which are not.
That you don't even recognize you are describing yourself in that statement is all rather pathetic.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #63 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 09:25:59 »
Quote
author=4WD link=topic=104598.msg1055147442#msg1055147442 date=1568459080]
Nothing I wrote said anything about Satan being cast into the bottomless pit.  Your inability to read and comprehend what is written and your tendency to insert your own false thinking into whatever is written is precisely why you are so far wrong on most of Scripture.

This is from your post that I replied to. Almost the very first sentence. I know you don't read all my posts, but I didn't know you don't even read your own.

Quote
   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Once again, I am reading your posts, and replying according to what is in them. Your practice of posting things, then denying you did so when someone points out your error is simply dishonest. You should work on that.

So you preach this event has already happened for you. What are you now preaching, that Jesus bound satan for a thousand years, but hasn't "cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more"?

Do you really even know your own preaching?


Quote
  But then you didn't really read enough to even know what was said.  You only picked out a statement here and there and proceeded to insert your own emotional, not rational, thinking.

I posted scriptures which expose your post as not supported by the Bible as a whole. AGAIN!!! I asked questions, I posted scriptures, as did AMO, and you have not addressed any part of it, only to post some sermon from a "minister of Righteousness" with whom you agree.

You know I usually address all your statements 4WD. It is you who pick out one sentence and ignore and reject the rest. This is called "projection", and is a very common psychological phenomenon. It is easily identified by a mirror. 


Quote
It is specifically the protections of the indwelling Holy Spirit received through faith in Jesus Christ that binds Satan for the believer.

This is your belief taken from one of the literally thousands of  "minister of righteousness" that you shop through in order to find one with whom you agree. But The Bible teaches just the opposite of your religion in this matter. satan isn't interested in the "many" who come in Christ's name, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but practice lawlessness, it already has them. It is specifically after those "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Truth as Jesus calls it, that God gives to those who Love Him and Keep His Commandments, enables us to discern the temptation, to identify the lie, the deception so as not to be snared by it. "And the truth shall make you free". Free from what? In part, from the deception that Rev. 20:1-3 has already happened for you. 

This is why we are to "Endure" till the end. This is why the Christ created "escapes" from temptations. This is why the Christ created HIS Armor for us to "Put on" to resist the "wiles of the devil". Not because it is bound for the believer as you preach, but because it isn't.

The preaching that satan is  "locked up, dropped in a bottomless pit, and God placed His seal on it so it doesn't deceive the nations any more, has already happened is an egregious lie, founded and promoted by the father of lies.

Your whole religious doctrine in this matter is taken from this one verse in Rev. and depends entirely on the fallacy that Jesus bound satan for His Apostles, but didn't tell them.


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And one more time you fail to read and understand.  Nothing in what I wrote said anything about Satan no longer tempting anyone.  Again you inserted your own false premises into what was written.  In this case you insert your own, not the biblical, meaning of the binding of Satan.

You posted a scripture from a "minister of righteousness" you believe in, and are preaching this event has already happened for you.

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   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

You and Kelly are preaching to anyone who will listen to you, that this event happened already for Stephen, who was murdered by "ministers of righteousness", the same servants of satan who killed Jesus, from Peter who was also killed by the servants of satan. If you could only see how foolish and deceptive such a belief is, that the Christ has already "bound" satan for you and Red, but for Stephen and Peter, He didn't. They had to "endure (temptations) till the end" but you are Red are already there, already resurrected and gifted with eternal life.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These have the Holy Spirit 4WD, that is the very reason satan is after them, and the very reason the Christ gave us His Armor to "put on". Of course you won't engage, the cost is just too much.

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That you don't even recognize you are describing yourself in that statement is all rather pathetic.

 Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

What is pathetic 4WD, is that you and Red are on this forum preaching to folks about God based on sermons some "minister of righteousness" gave, when you have no clue what you are even talking about.

Now that is sad.




Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #64 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 10:48:01 »
This is from your post that I replied to. Almost the very first sentence. I know you don't read all my posts, but I didn't know you don't even read your own.

Once again, I am reading your posts, and replying according to what is in them. Your practice of posting things, then denying you did so when someone points out your error is simply dishonest. You should work on that.
You are doing the same old thing again.  Surprise, surprise, surprise.  I posted the first four verses of Revelation 20.  But said nothing about the bottomless pit one way or the other. My post had only to do with the binding of Satan.  We can talk about the rest of it if needed, but I doubt it would do any good.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #65 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 14:40:34 »
You are doing the same old thing again.  Surprise, surprise, surprise.  I posted the first four verses of Revelation 20.  But said nothing about the bottomless pit one way or the other. My post had only to do with the binding of Satan.  We can talk about the rest of it if needed, but I doubt it would do any good.

Rev. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This is saying satan is bound, cast in a bottomless pit, God set His seal on him that he should deceive the nations no more, till this Thousand Year period was finished.

Now you come along, because of the preaching of a certain "theologian", and preach that satan was "bound for a thousand years" for you, but not cast in a bottomless pit, not yet sealed so as not to deceive the nations, just bound so it can not deceive you.

So I have posted scriptures and asked questions because in this scripture the binding, casting and sealing was all done for the same 1000 year period.

You divided them because of man's teaching, but you can provide nothing from God's Word to support this division.

Rom. 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Heb. 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Jesus is still making intercession for His people precisely because they have not been raised from the dead and "put on immortality" yet.

 Lev. 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

He is still reconciling the Holy Place and the Congregation. When this is done, at His 2nd coming, at the last trump, He will appear once again, only this time not as a Lamb for the Slaughter. At that time, As it is written "The dead in Christ", like Abraham and Stephen and Rehab, shall rise first.

At this time He will bring the Goat that was not killed for the people, and will place the sins back on it's head where they belong. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will rise, "and must put on immortality" and will reign with the Christ on earth for a 1000 years during which time satan is bound, cast in a bottomless pit (uninhabited wilderness) and God's seal placed on it so it can not deceive the world again.

This event is called, in the Feasts of the Christ which you and the religions of this world reject, but Jesus and His Apostles didn't, "Day of Atonement".

 Will you at least show me in scriptures where God divided the binding of satan, from the casting in a bottomless pit, and setting His seal on it?

Of course you can't, because there is no Biblical support for such a teaching. I am just hoping that in the darkness of your own home, when no one is looking so you can save face, like Nicodemus did, you might look into some of these things.







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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #66 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 15:18:23 »
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author=RB link=topic=104598.msg1055147440#msg1055147440 date=1568456336]
GB, I'm going to let 4WD answer his own post that was directed to him from you, and then after he does, I have somewhat to add to both of your post to 4WD. He's more than capable of answering for himself, he does not need me, yet, I do want to reveal your gross errors after he first answers for himself. So I will turn my attention to Amo, with whom I have battled with before as he defends his SDA doctrine that he came to embraced and I can see why you and him have some agreement, for your doctrine is nothing more than a mixture of several doctrines preached "IN" Mystery Babylon, which Amo limits to the apostate whore of Rome, and leaves the other whores out INCLUDING his SDA cult that he is part of. Another thread for another day if God wills.

I agree that the "whore" is not only speaking to the Catholic church but her daughters like your religion, as well as SDA. I see little difference from where I stand from the lot of them. They have all created doctrines and traditions which Transgress the commandments of God. I find Amo's religious posts contain more truth than yours by a large margin. He has some knowledge, I just wish He would realize that the SDA is just another trap like the Baptist and AOG, and the whole religious franchise trap that has plagued mankind since the tower of Babel.

I do hope he finds his way out of their clutches, but hold's on to the Holy Sabbath of the Lord's Christ. He does at least have that going for him. But "coming out of her" just to follow your religion would be worse than staying where he is I fear. At least He has respect for the Sabbath of the Lord's Christ. Something you don't have.




Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #67 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 18:19:27 »
Now you come along, because of the preaching of a certain "theologian",
Oh, give me a break.  I can't be sure, but I would be willing to bet that I have devoted as much and probably a lot more time and energy to studying God's word than you.

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #68 on: Sat Sep 14, 2019 - 18:29:24 »
and preach that satan was "bound for a thousand years" for you, but not cast in a bottomless pit, not yet sealed so as not to deceive the nations, just bound so it can not deceive you.
And you did it again.  I said nothing about the pit, one way or the other.  And I certainly didn't "preach" that he was not cast in the pit.  Seriously, you just make stuff up to fit your weird thinking.

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Re: The Reign of Christ
« Reply #69 on: Sun Sep 15, 2019 - 05:26:56 »
Oh, give me a break.  I can't be sure, but I would be willing to bet that I have devoted as much and probably a lot more time and energy to studying God's word than you.
Without question, more. I think that I have the Spirit of God to make such a judgment.  1st Corinthians 7:40

 

     
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