Author Topic: The Sinner vs. Free Will (Read 4391 times)

bel · « **Reply #140 on:** Mon Sep 07, 2020 - 14:20:13 »

Quote from: RB on Sat Sep 05, 2020 - 05:12:05

You think you did not know the wickedness of the human heart? She taught the same to her son Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
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From bel:Where in Scripture is Mary telling Jesus that He is totally depraved?
On the contrary, children were considered a blessing from God, especially the firstborn son who was to be dedicated to the service of God.
Really? prove it. MAry gradually understood the truth about Jesus~which is clear from many scriptures, Joesph, we just do not know to the degree he fully understood and will never know until that in the world to come.
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From bel:Mary may have been confused about why Jesus was in the Temple because she and Joseph " bought him back".
Blasphemy! He was NOT born with a sinful nature~God was his Father, not Adam!
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From bel:Not only does Jesus' genealogy trace back to Adam, but Romans 1:3 says" concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH."From Jesus' own words in Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is God."
The life of faith each child of God has ever lived they did so by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST in the new man within them.

From bel:OF CHRIST is a prepositional phrase used to describe a particular faith in a particular God and a particular word. All faiths are not the same. Within Judaism there are many branches. The same goes for Christianity. Jesus' faith was not the same as that of the Levitical priesthood.I don't believe in Calvinism. It is not my faith,nor was it the faith of Christ.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #140 on:** Mon Sep 07, 2020 - 14:20:13 »

RB · « **Reply #141 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:13:19 »

Quote from: bel on Mon Sep 07, 2020 - 14:20:13

Where in Scripture is Mary telling Jesus that He is totally depraved?
On the contrary, children were considered a blessing from God, especially the firstborn son who was to be dedicated to the service of God.

Never did Mary tell Jesus that he was totally depraved? I said very distinctly:

Quote from: RB

You think she did not know the wickedness of the human heart? She taught the same to her son Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

She taught him, NOT that she said he was! She knew otherwise since God was his Father.

Quote from: bel on: Yesterday at 14:20:13

From bel:Mary may have been confused about why Jesus was in the Temple because she and Joseph " bought him back".

Never confused, she brought him back because being made in the likeness flesh and blood, he still was a CHILD~he yet had to GROW in wisdom and stature~part of his complex nature one being 100% HUMANITY.

Quote from: bel on: Yesterday at 14:20:13

Not only does Jesus' genealogy trace back to Adam, but Romans 1:3 says" concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH."From Jesus' own words in Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is God."

His humanity is indeed traced back to David, NOT ADAM through his mother and suppose father, Joseph. Yet we KNOW that the HOLY GHOST conceived in her womb a SON by His power.

Quote from: Gabriel

Luke 1:31-35~"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

You are borderlining on teaching serious heresy! I still believe you and GB are one and the same person or at least follow each other.

Quote from: bel on: Yesterday at 14:20:13

OF CHRIST is a prepositional phrase used to describe a particular faith in a particular God and a particular word. All faiths are not the same. Within Judaism there are many branches. The same goes for Christianity. Jesus' faith was not the same as that of the Levitical priesthood.I don't believe in Calvinism. It is not my faith,nor was it the faith of Christ.

I have no clue what you are attempting to say~other than, you reject Calvinism....so be it, that does not of itself make you right or wrong in your beliefs. Calvinism is not the word of God that we are to live by, and certainly, neither is Arminianism~a much worse heresy!

Btw, let us leave "the Levitical priesthood" out of these discussions since they have not one thing to do with our subject under consideration.

RB · « **Reply #142 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:38:58 »

Quote from: johntwayne on Mon Sep 07, 2020 - 09:36:40

Man has free will that can either accept or reject God.

You folks sound just like the Pharisees in John 8.

Quote from: JESUS CHRIST

John 8:32-36~"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

How blind can one be! They said to Christ that they were never in bondage to any man! Have they forgotten their fathers were IN BONDAGE IN EGYPT? If they knew the scriptures they would have known ALL SINNERS are in BONDAGE to sin and the devil since the fall.

Quote from: JESUS CHRIST

Luke 4:18~"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

You quoted and used "sound bites" that you think supports your doctrine:

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Revelation 22:17~"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will let him take the water of life freely.

The ones that are invited to come are those that CAN hear, those that ARE athirst and him that has A WILL that has been SET AT LIBERTY by the grace of God. All others would mock at such a fairly tell of an offer~it would be pure foolishness to them who are living under a strong delusion of the lust of the flesh. But to those who are the called of God according to his purpose, it is WONDERFUL, GLORIOUS news of eternal bliss, world without end, waiting for those who believe the wonderful news from a God who cannot lie.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #142 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:38:58 »

RB · « **Reply #143 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:48:20 »

Quote from: yogi bear on Mon Sep 07, 2020 - 10:06:50

John 6:63 (KJV) 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Are reading this verse carefully yogi?

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It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Need help? How much does sinful flesh profit, with its will IN BONDAGE to sin and all of its lusts?

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #143 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:48:20 »

yogi bear · « **Reply #144 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 15:15:23 »

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Quote from: yogi bear on Yesterday at 10:06:50

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John 6:63 (KJV) 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Are reading this verse carefully yogi?
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It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Need help? How much does sinful flesh profit, with its will IN BONDAGE to sin and all of its lusts?

Yes Red, I think I have read it carefully enough to understand that man can not save himself it is the spirit that quickeneth.

It is done through the word of God because the words that Christ speaks (or give his Apostles to speak) they are spirit, and they are life just as it is recorded.

So how is one saved? It is through the gospel sent out to men. The words of God call men unto him. So many scripture teach this. Man is called but not forced to accept.

Jn 6:68 — Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Jn 12:49 — For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Ro 10:8-10 — But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ro 10:17 — So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1Th 2:13 — For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Heb 4:12 — For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1Pe 1:23 — Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And many many more scriptures to say the same.

Then you haven passages as this

John 3:15-17 (KJV)
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

What do they believe? The word.
Who is the Word? Jesus
What words does Jesus teach? those God gave him.

Who should not perish? whosoever believeth in him (the gospel of Christ)

Not as you say God hand selects a few against their will (with out them choosing on their own) but whosoever believeth in him.

So Red I do not understand what you were getting at with "Need help? How much does sinful flesh profit, with its will IN BONDAGE to sin and all of its lusts? "

I feel you are going to try to tell me that man can not understand the gospel and respond while still in their sinful state but scripture and many of them discredit you assumption.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #144 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 15:15:23 »

bel · « **Reply #145 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 16:46:47 »

Quote from: RB on Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 04:13:19

Never MAry told Jesus that he was totally depraved? I said very distinctly: She taught him, NOT that she said he was!
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From bel: Just as I said before, she taught Him that He was a Son of God and trained him in the ways of righteousness . This is also what we are commanded to do:" you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down and when you rise up."

She knew otherwise since God was his Father.
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From bel:Is God not the Father of all humankind? If not, who created us?

Never confused, she brought him back because being made in the likeness flesh and blood, he still was a CHILD~he yet had to GROW in wisdom and stature~part of his complex nature one being 100% HUMANITY.
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From bel: Again, as I said before,Jesus was a human just like the rest of us. Yet, He managed to overcome sin and death. He is an inspiration to all. So, we have no excuses.

His humanity is indeed traced back to David, NOT ADAM through his mother and suppose father, Joseph.
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From bel:If you believe that all humanity comes from Adam and Eve, then wouldn't this include both Joseph and Mary.
God said to the serpent: "I will put enmity between your seed and her seed( Eve). If this statement is true, then Jesus came from the seed of Adam and Eve

Btw, let us leave "the Levitical priesthood" out of these discussions since they have not one thing to do with our subject under consideration.

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From bel: Yes, I do believe the Levitical priesthood is relevant to the discussion. God gave them the free will to worship the God/gods of their choice, but they did not do the same to others.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #145 on:** Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 16:46:47 »

RB · « **Reply #146 on:** Wed Sep 09, 2020 - 04:11:09 »

Quote from: bel on Tue Sep 08, 2020 - 16:46:47

Just as I said before, she taught Him that He was a Son of God and trained him in the ways of righteousness . This is also what we are commanded to do:" you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down and when you rise up."

I DO NOT believe she taught Jesus he was the Son of God, from many scriptures making us think otherwise. Matthew 12:46; Mark 3:31; etc. I agree we should train our children in the word of God.